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NFT: Yank v Astros post game discussion.

section125 : 3/19/2017 6:58 pm
Went to the game at the new stadium which is co-occupied by the Astros and Nationals. Very Nice - fields are perfect. Brand new facility.

Observations:
1) Aaron Hicks has an absolute cannon. Looks good on TV and even better live. The ball he threw home, it seemed to never go above 10 ft high. He can cover the ground too. If he can just bat .260/.270 with 15 to 20 HRs....

2.) Aaron Judge also has a great arm. The ball he threw that caught McCann trying to stretch a single into a double was just a flick of the wrist. He doesn't appear to throw hard, it just comes out fast, hard and accurate. Did same thing later in the game(trying to double off a player, iirc?) and again he just made an easy motion and it is gone. Judge can also move in the outfield, Very fluid for a huge man.

3.) Clint Frazier also has a very good arm. A little up the line on his attempt to nail a player at the plate, but definitely looked to be a strong arm and if the ball was on line he would have gotten the out. He is good at the plate. He will be in the Bronx soon. In BP he hit one that I saw about 420 ft.

4.) Bad day for Higgie - did not even attempt to catch a pop-up in about the 3rd inning - wind probably blew it back into play but he did not even attempt to make a play and the ball dropped about 15 to 20 ft from him. Never saw a major league catcher dismiss a playable pop up before. He got booed by the crowd. Girardi came to the top step and appeared to just stared at him. I know it is only one game, but I don't think he is as good as Romine who was catching warm up pitches between innings. He seemed to be ok as his throws were fine.

5.) I don't know how it looked on TV, but Severino did not look good. Maybe he was working on the change up and breaking ball, but his fastball was still quite hittable. On occasion the change up was good. Would not be surprised if he went to SWB to continue working on it for half a season.

6.) Warren finds too many bats with his pitches to start. Batters were able to fight off his stuff and dink out hits. He did not get hit hard, but could not consistently put batters away.


IMHO, the Yanks should do what they can to get rid of Ellsbury. Fowler, Hicks, Frazier, McKinney, I'd take anyone over him. Hicks and Fowler can play CF.

Large Yankees fan turnout in Palm Beach. Crowd was all buzzing about the young guys. People are excited. Brian, Hal and Hank needn't worry about the team on the field. The fans at this game want to see the young guys and would understand growing pains..

Matt Holliday is a very big man.

Fire away!

Thanks for the recap!  
mfsd : 3/19/2017 7:03 pm : link
I share your wish that we could dump Ellsbury, but just don't see it happening

Bummer to hear Sevy didn't look great...still needs innings and experience
Agree 100% on Ellsbury  
terz22 : 3/19/2017 7:04 pm : link
Feel he'd be tough to move with that God awful contract we gave him. I'd go a step further and dump Gardner as well rather have the kids player over him and Ellsbury.
Mel Queen had a great arm too  
RetroJint : 3/19/2017 7:11 pm : link
He tried pitching . Maybe Hicks should do the same. As for the C, who I really like a lot , did he lose the ball right away and simply got discombobulated ? ? Happens quite a bit. All of Severino's off-speed pitches currently rate a (-). Hence the allure to put him in the bullpen where he could just throw the dog shit out of the ball for an inning. I'd rather they send Severino to Scranton to keep working on his stuff . Warren pitches to a 2.5/1 K/W. He tries to pitch to "weak" contact which is what people mean when they say "pitch to contact." He hurt his elibow last season with the 12-6. He lost bite. He's valuable . Long & middle man to start season.
Gardy still gets big ovations  
section125 : 3/19/2017 7:12 pm : link
from the fans - maybe the biggest today. I could live with Gardy one more season.
RE: Mel Queen had a great arm too  
section125 : 3/19/2017 7:22 pm : link
In comment 13399272 RetroJint said:
Quote:
He tried pitching . Maybe Hicks should do the same. As for the C, who I really like a lot , did he lose the ball right away and simply got discombobulated ? ? Happens quite a bit. All of Severino's off-speed pitches currently rate a (-). Hence the allure to put him in the bullpen where he could just throw the dog shit out of the ball for an inning. I'd rather they send Severino to Scranton to keep working on his stuff . Warren pitches to a 2.5/1 K/W. He tries to pitch to "weak" contact which is what people mean when they say "pitch to contact." He hurt his elibow last season with the 12-6. He lost bite. He's valuable . Long & middle man to start season.


It was weird that he dismissed it so quickly, pop up to his left and it looked close to being out, but still close enough he should have paid attention. But he just looked and gave up on it. He wasn't even looking at it after just a quick glance. We have all seen catchers chase a ball to the screen. I don't think he left the catchers box.
Agree with you  
Beer Man : 3/19/2017 9:00 pm : link
Ellsbury is standing in the way of progress. The kids are showing that they are coming on, but due to his salary the Yanks are keeping him in the way. The same could be said for Gardner, CC, and Headley.
Frustrating about  
StingerProf : 3/19/2017 9:04 pm : link
Severino. Had high hopes for him 2/3 years ago but I am starting to believe he will end up in the pen. The offspeed stuff is just not good enough. I value the pen more than most, so if Severino winds up being what he was in the pen last year for his career, I will sign up for that... Just sucks to keep waiting for that farm hand ace... Kapreilian, my new hope. (I love Montgomery too)

This team will be right there come September. Something people forget is how great Girardi was with that young Marlins team.
Ellsberry's contract is almost as bad as ARods  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/19/2017 9:31 pm : link
2nd. Bidding against themselves in both cases and both un-tradable.

Maybe not this year but next it may be worth to swallow as much as possible just to get him out of the way of the kids who need to be playing.
Just let Severino start the season in the rotation and let him pitch  
Jim in Hoboken : 3/19/2017 11:28 pm : link
his way into the pen. I don't think letting him work on his secondary stuff in the minors will help. If he isn't figuring it out by now he's probably destined for the pen.
Jim  
StingerProf : 3/20/2017 12:22 am : link
You would prefer Severino work on his off speed stuff in the majors where it counts as opposed to AAA? Doesn't make much sense and it will also just lower his confidence if it's not MLB ready.

Mitchell seems to have a hold on the #4 slot and I believe it will be Cessa or Green in the last slot. Severino is either going to the pen or AAA. Throwing him to the wolves if he isn't ready does nothing but hurt him and his value as we saw last season.
With all the young promising position players...  
M.S. : 3/20/2017 4:32 am : link

...the Yankees are just a starting staff away from winning the World Series.

We've got one strong starter in Masahiro Tanaka and then:

1) Michael Pineda with a whole lotta promise who hasn't figured it out yet at 28;

2) CC Sabathia who will flash the brilliance of his earlier career one game and then reveal what it really means for an aging vet who lost his #1 three years ago;

3) Chad Green who may do something one day as a back-of-the-rotation guy;

4) Luis Severino with a whole lotta promise;

5) Bryan Mitchell... who knows?

6) Luis Cessa... a big promise at this stage.

Yankees need to throw humongous free agent dollars at two front line starters. Otherwise, we're rooting for a team with a lot of exciting young bats, a one-two knock out punch with Betances and Chapman... and, then, nothing else.
Thanks -- great stuff  
Jay in Toronto : 3/20/2017 11:55 am : link
I'm old enough to remember great arms and how they were appreciated.

I'm thinking of Kaline, Colavitto and Maris. Also of course Clemente, whom sadly I never saw live.

Bummed out re Severino like everyone.

Question for the mavens -- have the Yanks changed the way they bring along young pitchers given the somewhat recent disappointments (Hughes, Banuelos, Joba, Kennedy etc)?
Shoulda passed on Ellsbury and ponied the bucks for  
Heisenberg : 3/20/2017 12:07 pm : link
Cano. Oh well.
RE: Shoulda passed on Ellsbury and ponied the bucks for  
yatqb : 3/20/2017 1:00 pm : link
In comment 13399847 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Cano. Oh well.


I don't mind them not going 10/240 for Cano. I mind them going 153 for Ellsbury, and the length of the contract. Just awful.
RE: RE: Shoulda passed on Ellsbury and ponied the bucks for  
Dunedin81 : 3/20/2017 1:11 pm : link
In comment 13399952 yatqb said:
Quote:
In comment 13399847 Heisenberg said:


Quote:


Cano. Oh well.



I don't mind them not going 10/240 for Cano. I mind them going 153 for Ellsbury, and the length of the contract. Just awful.


Absolutely. 5/$90 would have been a bad deal, but not historically bad, and not unmovable. We bid against ourselves and paid out the ass for a mediocre center fielder with injury issues.
So true, and so disappointing. Some deals you know are awful from  
yatqb : 3/20/2017 1:19 pm : link
the word go. This was almost Fregosi for Ryan bad.
Well, for me, I understood not signing Cano to that contract.  
Heisenberg : 3/20/2017 1:22 pm : link
but not in the context of then turning around and handing out just as bad a contract as they did with Ellsbury. For me, the proper decision is to not sign either guy at those prices. But, if you're gonna over pay, maybe overpay the far better player who also was a fan favorite?
I agree, Heisenberg. We were trying to get away from long term  
yatqb : 3/20/2017 1:25 pm : link
deals that would bite us in the ass in the latter years by not signing Cano, and then we turn around in the same offseason and sign Ellsbury????
I kinda agree with StinerProf  
section125 : 3/21/2017 8:11 am : link
that Severino will end up in the pen, long range. He can be every bit as good as Betances for one inning. But at 22 you cannot give up on him as starter. It took Guidry until age 26 to make it.

Don't forget Jordan Montgomery as a possible starter. Joe is starting him Thursday after his 4+ innings of no-no against the Tigers. He had very good numbers in MiLB last year.

Right now, I think Mitchell is #4. Personally I like Green as #5, but Cessa is right there. I feel Severino is in last place until he gets the change up corrected, then he might jump to #3.

I can also see the likelihood of big trade coming - starting pitching. The Yanks have so many players close to being ready and close in talent that I now can see Mateo, Wade, Fowler, Austin and McKinney as trade bait. I know the jury is still out on Judge because McKinney and Austin are pretty good and could make the trade of Judge possible. McKinney can hit and is likely better than Austin.
Guzman, piece #2 in the McCann trade...  
Dunedin81 : 3/21/2017 10:01 am : link
Was SITTING 98 yesterday, touching 102.
RE: I kinda agree with StinerProf  
rich in DC : 3/21/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13401020 section125 said:
Quote:
that Severino will end up in the pen, long range. He can be every bit as good as Betances for one inning. But at 22 you cannot give up on him as starter. It took Guidry until age 26 to make it.

Don't forget Jordan Montgomery as a possible starter. Joe is starting him Thursday after his 4+ innings of no-no against the Tigers. He had very good numbers in MiLB last year.

Right now, I think Mitchell is #4. Personally I like Green as #5, but Cessa is right there. I feel Severino is in last place until he gets the change up corrected, then he might jump to #3.

I can also see the likelihood of big trade coming - starting pitching. The Yanks have so many players close to being ready and close in talent that I now can see Mateo, Wade, Fowler, Austin and McKinney as trade bait. I know the jury is still out on Judge because McKinney and Austin are pretty good and could make the trade of Judge possible. McKinney can hit and is likely better than Austin.


No, the Yanks are VERY unlikely to make a trade for SP. In fact, the more likely outcome this year is that they will go in-house and give their nearly ready SP every opportunity to take a job- and that is in addition to Cessa and Green (and Severino, who I think gets every chance to start).

At a minimum this year, the Yanks will likely audition Montgomery, Adams and Kaprielian- and they may even give a few starts in September to guys like Sheffield.

No, the Yanks have some guys with real front-of-the-rotation potential coming up- why would they trade valuable assets for another SP until they see what they already have?
Wonder if Cash is still talking to the White Sox  
mfsd : 3/21/2017 10:07 am : link
about Quintana. Personally I hope we don't do it now, if they're ask is anything close to the truckload they got for Sale. But it has to be tempting.

I know Cash said no within the last couple days, but that could be posturing, to let the White Sox know we are fine walking away
they're =  
mfsd : 3/21/2017 10:08 am : link
their. There.
RE: RE: I kinda agree with StinerProf  
section125 : 3/21/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13401189 rich in DC said:
Quote:
In comment 13401020 section125 said:


Quote:


that Severino will end up in the pen, long range. He can be every bit as good as Betances for one inning. But at 22 you cannot give up on him as starter. It took Guidry until age 26 to make it.

Don't forget Jordan Montgomery as a possible starter. Joe is starting him Thursday after his 4+ innings of no-no against the Tigers. He had very good numbers in MiLB last year.

Right now, I think Mitchell is #4. Personally I like Green as #5, but Cessa is right there. I feel Severino is in last place until he gets the change up corrected, then he might jump to #3.

I can also see the likelihood of big trade coming - starting pitching. The Yanks have so many players close to being ready and close in talent that I now can see Mateo, Wade, Fowler, Austin and McKinney as trade bait. I know the jury is still out on Judge because McKinney and Austin are pretty good and could make the trade of Judge possible. McKinney can hit and is likely better than Austin.



No, the Yanks are VERY unlikely to make a trade for SP. In fact, the more likely outcome this year is that they will go in-house and give their nearly ready SP every opportunity to take a job- and that is in addition to Cessa and Green (and Severino, who I think gets every chance to start).

At a minimum this year, the Yanks will likely audition Montgomery, Adams and Kaprielian- and they may even give a few starts in September to guys like Sheffield.

No, the Yanks have some guys with real front-of-the-rotation potential coming up- why would they trade valuable assets for another SP until they see what they already have?


I agree that they have a whole load of pitchers that have at least the chance to be #3s at worst and a few with top of rotation stuff.
I look at the virtually ready to play now OFs they have and can see the potential for wasted assets. There are only 4 MLB slots and I would not mind seeing Hicks, McKinney, Judge and Frazier start right now. That still leaves Austin, Fowler, Cave, and Mateo(?) with Rutherford a couple/few years off. (I know I'm likely missing a couple more players, too). Once a player reaches 25/26 he's not likely to get much of a return if he isn't at the MLB level.
It is not something that need to be done, just an observation.

people are really overrating McKinney on spring training stats  
Greg from LI : 3/21/2017 10:28 am : link
.
RE: people are really overrating McKinney on spring training stats  
section125 : 3/21/2017 10:41 am : link
In comment 13401220 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
.


Or he was underrated because of his injury coming into ST. #24 pick, so should have some ability.

He'll be at SWB, so we'll see how he does at AAA ball.
RE: RE: people are really overrating McKinney on spring training stats  
Dunedin81 : 3/21/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13401245 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13401220 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


.



Or he was underrated because of his injury coming into ST. #24 pick, so should have some ability.

He'll be at SWB, so we'll see how he does at AAA ball.


Agree with this. Not a sure thing, has a skill set where everything needs to click for him to get chances (lack of plus speed or power) but he is a legit prospect, and if we weren't flush he's a guy we would be a lot more excited about.
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