Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

NFT: Knicks Chat 3/20

giantsfan44ab : 3/20/2017 8:09 am
Should be the first of 4 losses this week. 4 road games against 3 playoff teams and a 4th likely one. Unless the Spurs rest everyone.

Big stat lines last night:

-Dame 49
-Kyrie 46
-D-Lo 40
-Lebron 34 and 7
-Love 21 and 15
-Ingram with 18
-Nurkic 21 and 12, 3 blocks
-Davis 28 and 12. Jordan Crawford 22, been a big addition. Solomon hill has been doing a bit better too.
-KAT 33, Wiggins 25
-Saric with 23. Another win, the sixers actually look like a decent team without Embiid/Simmons
-WCS and Hield. 18 and 5 assists. Skal 14 and 7

Sixers don't really have an incentive to tank. They will naturally pass Sacramento in the standings so a top 6 pick is very much in play.
Pages: 1 2 | Show All |  Next>>
post article...  
Italianju : 3/20/2017 8:22 am : link
said that once they are mathematically elimiated Hornacek expects to be told (hate they way that sounds) to play all the rookies. Really could care less about the guys they mentioned getting time like Plumlee and ndour, but hopefully this means they shut down Melo/KP/Rose and let the young guys like Randle/Baker/Kuz play more. Id rather watch them (other then KP) and it makes it more likely we lose. Still have a solid shot at the 5 pick (pending lottery).
Rose said if the knicks ask him to shut it down  
nygiants16 : 3/20/2017 8:25 am : link
he has no problem with it..

yesterdays intervies sounded like an after the season press conference, kp and rose both said the tram jist never clicked together and couldnt get it going...

Mathematically eliminated.  
bceagle05 : 3/20/2017 10:03 am : link
That's cute.
Seriously,  
Keith : 3/20/2017 10:10 am : link
who are they fooling? Why do they have to wait to be mathematically eliminated? They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Just more stupidity from the organization that never disappoints.
RE: Rose said if the knicks ask him to shut it down  
Deej : 3/20/2017 10:14 am : link
In comment 13399554 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
he has no problem with it..



Every word out of this guy's mouth pisses me off.
Rose is confused.  
Keith : 3/20/2017 10:15 am : link
He already shut it down a month ago.
RE: Seriously,  
mfsd : 3/20/2017 10:16 am : link
In comment 13399664 Keith said:
Quote:
who are they fooling? Why do they have to wait to be mathematically eliminated? They are cutting off their nose to spite their face. Just more stupidity from the organization that never disappoints.


Agreed, that's just silly - waiting to be mathematically eliminated? This team mailed it in since november
I'm thinking Dolan  
Keith : 3/20/2017 10:18 am : link
is trying to maximize is profits.
Hopefully after this road trip  
giantsfan44ab : 3/20/2017 10:39 am : link
They just pull the plug early. They won't be "mathematically" eliminated, but they could be like 8-9 games back with only 9 games remaining.
can't help myself here, I'm sorry:  
ColHowPepper : 3/20/2017 10:44 am : link
there are so many avid, really knowledgeable Knicks/basketball fans on this thread, and the invested emotion and loyalty go so far beyond what this organization has merited over the past ten years of bumbling, missteps, lack of communication and transparency.

The only competition is whether over this time is who has been worse, the FO (collectively) and the players. And your dedicated following of the team over the past few weeks has gradually been sapped, because of irrelevance, of focus on what to me is arguably the worst move of the 2016 offseason, the signing of Joakim. I loved watching his heart, smarts, and hustle with the Bulls, but his last two years were such red flags, and to see him this season, even in the early games, it was clear he has lost a big % of his mobility, whether age, arthritis, desire, whatever. And at that contractual term, that cost. My goodness.

Again, nothing but admiration for you guys here, but the recompense is so out of proportion. How many organizations in professional sports in recent years, with the $$ and fanbase the Knicks control, have outdone the Knicks in ineptitude?
thank you Nets  
djm : 3/20/2017 10:47 am : link
Great job the past week or so. The Tank was taking on some water but the Nets delivered the Knicks from the clutches of the dreaded Pyrrhic victory. Bravo Nets. Bravo.
RE: Rose said if the knicks ask him to shut it down  
djm : 3/20/2017 10:51 am : link
In comment 13399554 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
he has no problem with it..

yesterdays intervies sounded like an after the season press conference, kp and rose both said the tram jist never clicked together and couldnt get it going...


At what point do we completely kill Horn and Phil? Either or. Horn for not putting his stamp on things and Phil for putting too much of a stamp on things. Fucking stamps. We either have too many stamps or not enough stamps at MSG.

Horn did a dreadful job this year. I don't care what Phil is or isn't doing. Coach the fucking team. Coach to win. I haven't seen a bigger mess of a team at MSG in a long time. And that's saying something. This team wasn't very good but they shouldn't be this bad. This is a travesty. With that said, it's a well placed travesty. Bank the tank. Pick a winner.
Problem we have with Horny now  
bceagle05 : 3/20/2017 11:00 am : link
is that he knows he's coaching for his job. Fisher was axed halfway through year two. That's why Melo is playing 40 minutes a night - every win counts for our coach. Even if we trade Melo and draft a Tatum or Isaac - expect a heavy dose of Lance at the three spot next season if the rook isn't ready day one.

That's why there needs to be clarity. Boston hires Stevens with an understanding there would be a lot of losing early on, and he just did his thing on the developmental front with no worries about job status. Same with Brown in Philly and Atkinson in Brooklyn. Our coaches have no clue what direction we're going because Phil has no clue either.
RE: RE: Rose said if the knicks ask him to shut it down  
TyreeHelmet : 3/20/2017 11:01 am : link
In comment 13399710 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13399554 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


he has no problem with it..

yesterdays intervies sounded like an after the season press conference, kp and rose both said the tram jist never clicked together and couldnt get it going...




At what point do we completely kill Horn and Phil? Either or. Horn for not putting his stamp on things and Phil for putting too much of a stamp on things. Fucking stamps. We either have too many stamps or not enough stamps at MSG.

Horn did a dreadful job this year. I don't care what Phil is or isn't doing. Coach the fucking team. Coach to win. I haven't seen a bigger mess of a team at MSG in a long time. And that's saying something. This team wasn't very good but they shouldn't be this bad. This is a travesty. With that said, it's a well placed travesty. Bank the tank. Pick a winner.


Clean house and bring in a competent and experienced GM. And truly clean house- not the half measure Phil did. No more Alan Houston, Steve Mills, even the trainer Roger Hinds on the bench with a clipboard. Jackson has completely failed at changing the toxic environment and has actually made it worse. The high draft pick is great but it would be insane to entrust Jackson with another offseason.
RE: Problem we have with Horny now  
DanMetroMan : 3/20/2017 11:09 am : link
In comment 13399718 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
is that he knows he's coaching for his job. Fisher was axed halfway through year two. That's why Melo is playing 40 minutes a night - every win counts for our coach. Even if we trade Melo and draft a Tatum or Isaac - expect a heavy dose of Lance at the three spot next season if the rook isn't ready day one.

That's why there needs to be clarity. Boston hires Stevens with an understanding there would be a lot of losing early on, and he just did his thing on the developmental front with no worries about job status. Same with Brown in Philly and Atkinson in Brooklyn. Our coaches have no clue what direction we're going because Phil has no clue either.


Earl Watson made this exact point last week. How hard it is for coaches to accept tanking when their jobs are on the line.
RE: RE: RE: Rose said if the knicks ask him to shut it down  
Deej : 3/20/2017 11:10 am : link
In comment 13399719 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:


Clean house and bring in a competent and experienced GM. And truly clean house- not the half measure Phil did. No more Alan Houston, Steve Mills, even the trainer Roger Hinds on the bench with a clipboard. Jackson has completely failed at changing the toxic environment and has actually made it worse. The high draft pick is great but it would be insane to entrust Jackson with another offseason.


The toxic environment comes from Dolan and is institutionalized at the Garden (although interestingly not @ the Rangers). It's nice to say "clean house" but the house is the problem -- not what is inside it. We dont need a clean-up, we need a cleansing fire.

As for Horny, it's hard to avoid a conclusion that he has done an awful job. It doesnt help that his two "stars" are completely resistant to coach, dont play defense, and know that there is nothing JH can do about it.
If a GM  
giantsfan44ab : 3/20/2017 11:12 am : link
Is asking for his coach to tank, shouldn't that be something that's clearly not held against the coach?
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 3/20/2017 11:13 am : link
not shitting on Hornacek because he's been put in a tough spot but I have to say, the guy comes off as kind of meek and understated and doesn't have the resume for me to just "assume the best". Seems like even guys like KP seem to be confused by what they are trying to do and guys like Rose have openly disrespected him.
I always thought he'd be a better coach  
Keith : 3/20/2017 11:21 am : link
with a young up and coming team vs a team of vets. Once we rid ourselves of the cancers that are Melo and Rose, we can evaluate what we have. Enough of the cleaning house garbage. We've been doing it for years. We are in a position now to do it the right way, let's give them a chance to do it. If they go and spend on mediocre vets and then stink again next year, we can talk about moving on.
the team we had before the Melo trade was the team to  
gtt350 : 3/20/2017 11:22 am : link
build on. they broke that up for Melo and many of us saw the pathetic results or lack there of coming. we had an exciting team and broke it up for a selfish star
If  
DanMetroMan : 3/20/2017 11:24 am : link
we hear them chasing guys like Hill or Teague we will know this is a full disaster not worth paying attention to.
With the roster he's given, and Jackson's interference, I wouldn't  
Jim in Hoboken : 3/20/2017 11:27 am : link
judge Hornacek based on the season, but despite his playing resume it doesn't appear he knows what he is doing. The fact that KP has regressed this year is a strike against him in my book. Granted many factors are involved, but the coach is partly to blame.

And Rambis, Red Auerbach wouldn't have delivered any championships with Rambis on his staff as the defensive guru.
Phil attempted to rebuild while  
Keith : 3/20/2017 11:28 am : link
building a new culture by bringing in vets that he thought would help us win and change the culture of this garbage we've seen for 15 years. It didn't work and luckily for us, it blew up way worse than we all thought it would.

None of the moves have effected our ability to rebuild. Noah's contract won't prevent us from doing anything and we didn't give up any young players, picks or assets to bring in these vets.

I just pray they don't make stupid signings again this offseason.
Give Sergio  
giantsfan44ab : 3/20/2017 11:35 am : link
Rodigruez a 1 + 1 team option. Don't care if you overpay for next season because it's a one year deal. Let someone who is willing to pass play PG. Even if we do end up with drafting a PG. Can implement some of the 2 PG stuff and have a vet to lead the group as well.
Id be so pissed...  
Italianju : 3/20/2017 11:39 am : link
if we they signed a hill or teague to any sort of meaningful deal. They are avg starting PG's who will get paid like 18 mill a year or something absurd. Id be fine with a vet on a 1 year deal to pair with hopeful a rookie. Of course id really rather just not sign anyone, trade melo, and probably just suck next year. But it would begin the transition to it being KP's team and would be a great development year for KP, WH, and our top pick. And you probably get a another top pick to go with those 4. Of course we just need to pray they hit on the picks.
Guys  
DanMetroMan : 3/20/2017 11:42 am : link
like Hill/Teague are the perfect examples of solid but nothing special "older" guys we should be avoiding. In fact, I'd add 1 year to the age of any player we sign to a long term deal because the odds of the Knicks suddenly being " really good" next year are close to zero so George Hill (about to be 31) will basically be at least 32 years old by the time the Knicks (realistically) are close to being good. He's also "too good" to have to settle for short years.
Phil  
TyreeHelmet : 3/20/2017 11:59 am : link
It's nothing groundbreaking, but I got to speak briefly with an MSG higher up over the weekend. They are on the business side , but man did they kill Phil Jackson. Indicated that there is a strong dislike for him around the Garden, refuses to address people and treats the staff very poorly. Also said people are trying to convince Dolan to move on from him, which Begley also recently reported. I was really surprised how open this person was in killing Phil. They were really shitting all over him.
Next PG  
JOMO25 : 3/20/2017 12:04 pm : link
Conventional wisdom says Jrue Holiday would not come to the the NYK circus via FA even if it meant to play with his brother. Still, if it were me, I would not voluntarily sign on to play with DMC in the prime of my career when I have a choice to do otherwise.

Gotta figure the NYK will somehow win enough games to miss out on all these PGs. Murphy's (Knicks) Law.

I wonder if this guy Milos Teodocic would come for big bucks?
Filthy or Orlando  
Carl in CT : 3/20/2017 12:04 pm : link
Tonight? Preference?
Don't think  
giantsfan44ab : 3/20/2017 12:08 pm : link
Hill, Teague or Holiday are guys that will be turning down 5 year $180M if presented with the opportunity.

They aren't Paul George who would be the face on every billboard in Southern California if they were to jump ship.
So long as they keep losing (and I think that's a safe bet)  
Greg from LI : 3/20/2017 12:08 pm : link
They stand a good chance of drafting their next PG. So the losing will at least be in the service of a noble cause.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 3/20/2017 12:08 pm : link
be interested in Gersson Rosas if Phil got canned. Both Cuban and Morey think extremely highly of the guy which makes him pretty intriguing. I'd want a guy in-tune with todays NBA and not some old retread. Then again we all know it would be Allan Houston:( Others I'd want to speak to

Troy Weaver OKC

Mark Hughes (Knicks current director of player personnel, people are very high on him)

Brian Pauga (Wolves sniped him from SA)
RE: Filthy or Orlando  
giantsfan44ab : 3/20/2017 12:09 pm : link
In comment 13399837 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Tonight? Preference?


Sixers easily. Orlando blows. Sixers have a pretty decent schedule going forward and have been winning some games and don't get affected by it because they have sacramentos pick.
Don't torture yourself, Dan.  
bceagle05 : 3/20/2017 12:10 pm : link
It's Mills or Houston. Be grateful if it's anyone but Isiah.
Like Dolan would OK canning Mills and Houston  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2017 12:11 pm : link
Remember what team you root for. They're not still here because of Phil.
RE: Like Dolan would OK canning Mills and Houston  
Greg from LI : 3/20/2017 12:14 pm : link
In comment 13399862 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Remember what team you root for. They're not still here because of Phil.


Exactly - if Phil Jackson, with his rep and Lil' Jimmy's determination to hire him, didn't have enough pull to get Houston and Mills shitcanned, no anonymous young NBA exec is going to pull it off.
Fail for Fultz?  
Heisenberg : 3/20/2017 12:16 pm : link
Lose them all for Lonzo Ball?

RE: RE: Like Dolan would OK canning Mills and Houston  
Deej : 3/20/2017 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13399877 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13399862 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


Remember what team you root for. They're not still here because of Phil.



Exactly - if Phil Jackson, with his rep and Lil' Jimmy's determination to hire him, didn't have enough pull to get Houston and Mills shitcanned, no anonymous young NBA exec is going to pull it off.


The flipside is probably, why would Phil care to get Mills fired? In this structure, Mills is likely just a pass thru -- having the initial trade talks and reporting back. Gathering reports on D leaguers. Etc.
Lowe  
TyreeHelmet : 3/20/2017 12:22 pm : link
Sorry if it was already posted, but Zach Lowe really ripped the Knicks in his column on Friday. Spot on about everything, as usual.

"The Kazoos are down to 25th in points allowed per possession after the Nets flitted around for 121 points in Madison Square Garden on Thursday. Two of the five teams trailing New York in defensive efficiency are trying to lose. That includes the Lakers, who spent years clutching pearls about tanking from atop their golden throne -- WON'T SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN! -- before embarking on perhaps the most naked late-season tank job in recent NBA history. They sent two veterans home, and were about to banish Nick Young -- noted winner Nick Young -- until the public shaming became too much for them.

Back to the Kazoos: they are bad at basically every part of defense. They rank last in defensive rebounding rate. Their transition defense has been an abominable mix of lazy and uncoordinated. Derrick Rose is among the half-dozen worst defenders among all full-time starters. He's either lazy, clueless, or both. The Knicks should not re-sign him unless his market collapses into nothingness.

Carmelo Anthony has been a minus on defense for years, and he completely checks out on some nights. It's hard to blame him. With everyone fixated on the NCAA tourney, Melo brought us the single best, "Yeah, I care more about my shooting percentage than helping my awful team win" instance of half-court heave avoidance in league history:


That is the basketball representation of not giving a crap. That is avant garde art.

The scary part about New York's defense? Things could even be worse. New York has allowed a ton of open 3s, but opponents have hit an unusually low percentage of them, per NBA.com.

But, sure, keep working on the triangle. Difficulty mastering that has definitely been the thing keeping the Kazoos down for the last 15 years."
Zach Lowe ESPN - ( New Window )
Rose figures if he mentions defense all the time  
bceagle05 : 3/20/2017 12:45 pm : link
nobody will notice he plays none of it. And I laughed when Melo didn't launch that shot from half court - stats and dollars are all he cares about. What a pair of fucking losers.
This has really been the most unwatchable season in a long time  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2017 12:55 pm : link
It's very Knicks that Rose would stay healthy the whole year (finally) but just be painfully mediocre. Glad they didn't go full dumb and extend him early.
PG  
TyreeHelmet : 3/20/2017 1:06 pm : link
The Knicks clearly have interest in Jeff Teague. Phil's tried to trade for him before and multiple reports are they will target him in free agency. He's a decent point guard and would be an upgrade, but giving him a 4 year deal north of 60 million would be so dumb.

I would rather sit out any big free agency moves and just go with a youth movement. Let Hornacek focus on developing the team and not chasing the 8th seed. If it leads to another high pick, then you get another young player to add to the core.

The only 'attainable" free agent point guard who would interest me is Patty Mills. He's only 28, can play off the ball or even come off the bench if the 2017 pick is a PG. Any guess what he will cost?

Unrelated, but wow did Josh Jackson impress over the weekend. That guy can play. Any chance he goes number 1? Wouldn't mind pairing him with KP.....
Teague  
DanMetroMan : 3/20/2017 1:10 pm : link
is solid... yet not a game changer and about to turn 29. A 4 year deal at 14-17 per would be moronic. Lets just have all mediocre upper 20-low 30's players with zero ceiling to get better. I can already see the BBI arguments (the same ones we have every year) with "some" saying getting gradually better is some sort of great accomplishment and how guys like Hill/Teague are really nice moves. YUCK.
I wouldn't have had  
Enzo : 3/20/2017 1:23 pm : link
a problem with a Hill or Teague type 2 years ago or whatever on a reasonable deal - back when looking to put good players around Melo wasn't the worst idea in the world. But that time has passed. Unless you're shopping at the top of the market for an absolute all-star, I'd pass on most of the free agents this summer (aside from guys on KOQ bargain type contracts). As for Hill and Teague specifically, I think they go to the highest bidder for every last cent this summer. Neither guy has made a ton of money in the league so far, relatively speaking. This likely represents their only chance to cash in.
Berman  
DanMetroMan : 3/20/2017 2:14 pm : link
says Ndour and Plumlee will get burn shortly
RE: Berman  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/20/2017 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13400125 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
says Ndour and Plumlee will get burn shortly


Should've started doing this 10 games ago.
RE: I wouldn't have had  
DanMetroMan : 3/20/2017 2:15 pm : link
In comment 13399992 Enzo said:
Quote:
a problem with a Hill or Teague type 2 years ago or whatever on a reasonable deal - back when looking to put good players around Melo wasn't the worst idea in the world. But that time has passed. Unless you're shopping at the top of the market for an absolute all-star, I'd pass on most of the free agents this summer (aside from guys on KOQ bargain type contracts). As for Hill and Teague specifically, I think they go to the highest bidder for every last cent this summer. Neither guy has made a ton of money in the league so far, relatively speaking. This likely represents their only chance to cash in.


Well that's my point. Enough shoveling "okay"/solid veterans onto the Melo Hill and being cool with "being a little better". There is no doubt Teague/Hill are better than Derrick Rose. It doesn't mean either one makes any sense on the 3-4 year 15+ million dollar deals they will be getting. No more of this crap.
RE: Rose figures if he mentions defense all the time  
Deej : 3/20/2017 2:16 pm : link
In comment 13399929 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
nobody will notice he plays none of it. And I laughed when Melo didn't launch that shot from half court - stats and dollars are all he cares about. What a pair of fucking losers.


No, Rose is delusional. He thinks his D is good.
Re Hill, Teague etc  
Deej : 3/20/2017 2:19 pm : link
Im less worried about taking on bad contracts, tanking, windows etc. At this point I want to see a roster of 15 coachable hard workers. Im 100% convinced that being led by Melo and having Rose as the second name star is killing this team. They dont play D, they cant be benched, and everyone sees it. Melo has taken a big step back this season in the commitment department.

I dont care if we win 15 or 45 games next season. I want to see a baseline of discipline and accountability put down. No NBA team has gotten anywhere being as uncommitted as we are.
Melo has certainly checked  
Enzo : 3/20/2017 2:37 pm : link
out. It's a bad look for him but he's not the first "star player" to give up on a bad team. The difference between him and Rose though is that a motivated Melo can still play a big role on a good team as a stretch 4 IMO. Rose, even when he's playing well, just can't be efficient enough to get big minutes on a good team in today's NBA due to his lack of 3s and free throws (or defense).
Pages: 1 2 | Show All |  Next>>
Back to the Corner