Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner
 

Archived Thread

How do you feel about the offseason plan, so far?

Chris684 : 3/20/2017 11:28 am
I think they have done a great job of both identifying where they are as an organization, and executing a plan.

At Reese's year-end presser, we heard him talk about Eli being on "the back 9". He also made it clear that he can and is still is playing at a high level.

I think anyone who follows this team could figure out that they are building within probably 3 year window. I think the Marshall and JPP moves fit right into this thought process.

Anyway, defensively, this whole unit was rebuilt last offseason and they basically hit a home run. The idea this offseason? Don't go backwards.

They are on the verge of retaining both JPP and Hank, something not many people thought they would do. What it means? Well, if Hank accepts the offer on the table, it's very likely the DL will be even better next season. Very exciting.

Offensively, this is still a work in progress, and I think you will see that reflected in this year's draft, but more on that below. Early on, you knew the skill spots were going to be overhauled and Cruz, Jennings and Donnell were all let go. Marshall fell into their laps gift-wrapped. They found a FB/TE who can help up front with Ellison.

As for the OL, I think they are more optimistic on their young o-lineman (Flowers, Hart) than the average fan. Besides that, it looks like they are doing the best they can to build depth and competition with most of their financial resources tied up in the defense and skill positions. Fluker and Jerry will be in the mix on the right side, but I doubt either are guaranteed anything in terms of starting, depending how the draft shakes out.

And that leads me to the draft. I think the offense is still going to be the area of focus with OT, pass catching TE and power RB as the priority. Look for these positions early. The one potential change here is if Hankins does not accept the offer, DT will jump up as an early possibility as well. Like any draft year with NYG, all bets are off if their highest rated DE, CB or WR falls to them in any round.

My draft wildcard watch is McAdoo with one of these QBs. I think if any of the projected 1st round guys slip to 23, or Mahomes or Webb later on, they may strike.

What do you all think?
How can anyone not like it?  
Keith : 3/20/2017 11:30 am : link
We all wanted to bring in a vet or 2 for the OL, but it wasn't in the cards. Offensively we upgraded the WR position significantly, the TE position, the OL slightly. Defensively we are bringing back most of the important parts of a defense that was one of the best in the league and improving as the season went on.

My biggest concern isn't the OL, it's Eli's ability to bounce back from that season. He had a really bad year.
I think we have done a fine  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/20/2017 11:30 am : link
job of patching up as many holes as possible with limited cap space. Can't ask for much more, especially with 35 year Olineman getting $15 mil. a year.
RE: How can anyone not like it?  
Steve L : 3/20/2017 11:36 am : link
In comment 13399760 Keith said:
Quote:
We all wanted to bring in a vet or 2 for the OL, but it wasn't in the cards. Offensively we upgraded the WR position significantly, the TE position, the OL slightly. Defensively we are bringing back most of the important parts of a defense that was one of the best in the league and improving as the season went on.

My biggest concern isn't the OL, it's Eli's ability to bounce back from that season. He had a really bad year.


Agree Keith. I think next season is just as much on Eli than anyone else. The front office is handing him weapons, an improved TE and a slightly improved OL that can still be upgraded and the same D that carried him last year. I'd still like to see a stronger RB though.
Given the resources available..  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2017 11:38 am : link
I think we've done well. It's clear we're in win now mode and we're trying to win another Championship before Eli is done. I'm on board.

A strong draft is going to be crucial. We need to come out of that with another 2-3 guys who are going to positively impact the team THIS season.
.  
Go Terps : 3/20/2017 11:43 am : link
The front office is gambling quite a bit if the plan at offensive line is:

Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker

It could work out, but it could also significantly impede the offense like it did in 2016. Disappointing.
If you think they are building for a 3 year window that starts now  
YAJ2112 : 3/20/2017 11:48 am : link
which I agree with, then I have no idea why you would think that taking a QB at 23 is in any way shape or form a possibility.

The Giants are not taking a QB at 23 nor should they. The best Eli succession plan will be to find his replacement after he is gone.
RE: .  
The_Boss : 3/20/2017 11:48 am : link
In comment 13399791 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The front office is gambling quite a bit if the plan at offensive line is:

Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker

It could work out, but it could also significantly impede the offense like it did in 2016. Disappointing.


I second these thoughts
The OL isn't improved, slightly or otherwise.  
Devon : 3/20/2017 11:50 am : link
There wasn't much choice for the team and I'm not criticizing them for their choices on that front, but Fluker, the only add, is a terrible player until he finally proves otherwise -- you could actually argue he's been worse than Newhouse and have a better than solid case. The team has clearly decided it's on Eli to make what will likely again be the worst starting tackles in the NFL work and we're just going to have to see if, despite the odds against it, he can turn back the clock and make like it's 2011 again. If he can't, the offense is going to suck again. It is what it is.

In general, I get everything they've done this offseason, given what money they were choosing to work with and the holes they had with the talent/market available, but, if they don't get back Hankins and Robinson, it feels more like they've weakened their strength (defense) to make improvements to their weakness (offense) that won't likely make up for it.
The OL will be improved  
Keith : 3/20/2017 11:51 am : link
stictly for the reason that Flowers is a year older and hopefully does what he has to do to improve this offseason(which I think he will).
Personally I think the 2016 OL  
Chris684 : 3/20/2017 11:59 am : link
is being scapegoated for a (for his standards) slightly below average year for Eli and virtually nothing at the skill positions.

For all the heat the OL takes, this offense trotted out pretty much nothing at TE or RB other than some rookie contributions from Perkins.

There was really nothing to speak of other than Odell and Shepard, another rookie.

Why do so many dismiss this fact?
RE: Personally I think the 2016 OL  
Go Terps : 3/20/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13399827 Chris684 said:
Quote:
is being scapegoated for a (for his standards) slightly below average year for Eli and virtually nothing at the skill positions.

For all the heat the OL takes, this offense trotted out pretty much nothing at TE or RB other than some rookie contributions from Perkins.

There was really nothing to speak of other than Odell and Shepard, another rookie.

Why do so many dismiss this fact?


Because there were too many instances of a RB having a defender in his face the moment he touched the football. No one respected our running game, which meant that Beckham faced double coverage almost all the time. Our complete inability to dominate at the line of scrimmage was to the obvious detriment of every other aspect of the offense.
Regardless of Eli's play, he got the ball out quicker than all but one  
Devon : 3/20/2017 12:03 pm : link
(out of 40 qualifying) QBs. Flowers and the RT duo still somehow managed to be absolute sieves, in terms of pressure allowed.

You can recognize that Manning didn't mitigate them being trash well, like he has at other points in his career when the OL wasn't good, and that they were trash too. It's not either/or.
RE: Personally I think the 2016 OL  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/20/2017 12:04 pm : link
In comment 13399827 Chris684 said:
Quote:
is being scapegoated for a (for his standards) slightly below average year for Eli and virtually nothing at the skill positions.

For all the heat the OL takes, this offense trotted out pretty much nothing at TE or RB other than some rookie contributions from Perkins.

There was really nothing to speak of other than Odell and Shepard, another rookie.

Why do so many dismiss this fact?


Completely agree. Having Marshall on the opposite side is going to help the run and the pass game out. It will surely help overall offense.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2017 12:05 pm : link
We didn't do much to improve the OL, but the additions of Ellison and Marshall should still make a fairly noticeable difference in the blocking department.

An above average blocking TE/FB isn't a "sexy" addition, but it was something this team certainly needed.

Forget the line for a second. The supplementary blocking in 2016 was atrocious and needed to be fixed.
RE: RE: Personally I think the 2016 OL  
giants#1 : 3/20/2017 12:06 pm : link
In comment 13399829 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13399827 Chris684 said:


Quote:


is being scapegoated for a (for his standards) slightly below average year for Eli and virtually nothing at the skill positions.

For all the heat the OL takes, this offense trotted out pretty much nothing at TE or RB other than some rookie contributions from Perkins.

There was really nothing to speak of other than Odell and Shepard, another rookie.

Why do so many dismiss this fact?



Because there were too many instances of a RB having a defender in his face the moment he touched the football. No one respected our running game, which meant that Beckham faced double coverage almost all the time. Our complete inability to dominate at the line of scrimmage was to the obvious detriment of every other aspect of the offense.


Not trying to let the OL off the hook, since they sucked by every measure, but there were numerous instances in cnewk's reviews where the OL had their men blocked, but Donnell and/or Tye completely whiffed on their blocks. I think they overpaid for Ellison, but he should be a massive improvement in the run blocking department and potentially even in pass pro since he presumably knows how to actually chip a DE/LB.

And (FWIW) from my memory of these unofficial 'reviews', Jerry was by far the worst run blocker (though better than the OTs in pass pro). IF Fluker beats Jerry out for the RG spot, we could see improvement there.
Nobody respected our running game  
Keith : 3/20/2017 12:06 pm : link
because Jennings was garbage. There were holes and he missed all of them. Perkins, a rookie, was able to find holes and looked good at the end of the season.
Also, our best o-lineman, Pugh  
Chris684 : 3/20/2017 12:06 pm : link
missed 5 games in the middle of the season, then a couple of his backups went down.

Just so happens Pugh plays next to our 2nd year LT who everyone wants to kick to the curb.

Maybe this factored into the equation?

And Terps, there is also video evidence of Rashad Jennings having a cup of coffee in the backfield while the OL opened up some pretty nice holes to run through.

Maybe all is not as bad as it seems concerning the OL?
Jennings was terrible.  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2017 12:08 pm : link
Poor vision, no elusiveness.

Great guy, easy to root for.. but he had a pretty poor 2016 campaign. It wasn't all the OL's fault.
Good point about Ellison arc.  
Keith : 3/20/2017 12:08 pm : link
He will also improve the run blocking.
Absolutely  
arcarsenal : 3/20/2017 12:13 pm : link
We can line Ellison up next to Flowers on certain pass plays and all of a sudden, Eli's blindside is a lot safer.

Obviously we won't do it all the time and Flowers is going to need to handle his man 1 on 1, but I do think this was a good way to address the blocking in an offseason where there just weren't a whole lot of OL options that made sense.

We also still have the draft.
RE: RE: Personally I think the 2016 OL  
mrvax : 3/20/2017 12:13 pm : link
In comment 13399829 Go Terps said:
Quote:

Because there were too many instances of a RB having a defender in his face the moment he touched the football. No one respected our running game, which meant that Beckham faced double coverage almost all the time. Our complete inability to dominate at the line of scrimmage was to the obvious detriment of every other aspect of the offense.


Add to that, the pass pro sucked too. Eli had to get rid of the ball like a hot potato or get clobbered on almost every drop back.
Agree with Arc,  
Doomster : 3/20/2017 12:14 pm : link
the OL is what it is.......there is not much out there to fix the line, unless you sell your soul....what will make it better is a blocking TE and FB.....and another offensive weapon from the draft....
Our top 3 backs last year:  
Keith : 3/20/2017 12:18 pm : link
Jennings-593 yards-3.3 average
Perkins- 456 yards-4.1 average
Vereen- 158 yards- 4.8 average

I really do like Jennings, but he was the biggest problem with the rushing attack last year, not the OL.

Most top RB's get about 250-300 rushes in a season, if you take Perkins season and pro-rate that over 275 rushes, he'd have:

1,119 yards.

One GIF doesn't absolve the OL  
Go Terps : 3/20/2017 12:19 pm : link
And if you're going to point to the GIFs that we've all seen, don't forget the ones where Perkins is forced to make one or two guys miss in the backfield.

Best as expected  
MotownGIANTS : 3/20/2017 12:19 pm : link
with the JPP taking longer than we'd hoped ...
You do what you can with what you have.  
Klaatu : 3/20/2017 12:23 pm : link
The Giants didn't have much to begin with, but it seems to me that they made the most out of their limited resources. Time will tell, of course.
I'm generally pleased  
RobCarpenter : 3/20/2017 12:24 pm : link
Getting the JPP contract helps remove a distraction about what will happen next year, and solidifies the D. Plus frees up $$ to resign Hankins.

I'm glad Reese didn't overpay for some of these OL.

And I also want to see how the team's running game does with a decent blocking TE this season. Still hoping Howard or Njoku is there at #23.
It wasnt "one gif"  
Chris684 : 3/20/2017 12:24 pm : link
As others have mentioned, cnewk provided much analysis.

The point is, the offense collectively was not good last season. Many here like to piggyback on the idea that the OL was somehow holding back an otherwise good offense. That is just not true.

Your offensive skill positions last year were Eli to Beckham with a sprinkling of two rookies who showed promise.

That isnt enough.
Fill the DT and WILL...  
Torrag : 3/20/2017 12:25 pm : link
...and we'll have done a good job so far. Even if we don't address the LT position which is the biggest hole in our roster.
If Hankins comes back  
Sonic Youth : 3/20/2017 12:29 pm : link
We are in a pretty good spot. I'm hoping they address TE/OT, OT/TE, and RB (in that order) in the draft. Having said that, we do need to look past this year for DRC's replacement, and I know that this draft is deep in DB, so if there's a good value on the board there, I think you might have to take a shot.

I'd love for the Giants to sign Blount which would make the addition of an RB through the draft much less urgent.
To do virtually nothing  
gmenatlarge : 3/20/2017 1:06 pm : link
to fix maybe the worst O-line in football for a second year is inexcusable and will come back to bite them in the ass (hopefully not). To say that your plan is for the worst set of tackles to just get better, is just wasting your franchise QB's final years with the team. I hope I am wrong.
I guess that I am in the minority  
Archer : 3/20/2017 1:12 pm : link
I have very mixed feelings about what the Giants have accomplished this off season.

I think that the defense will be as good or better than last year.

I am worried about the offense. There are deficiencies in the offense that have not been addressed in a meaningful way.

The receivers are improved, the tight end position is marginally better, the running backs are the same, and the offensive line is the same or worse.

I do love the signing of Brandon Marshall. The Giants have the large receiver that they were missing. He is the most significant new player this off season.

I do not like what the Giants have done to improve the OL. I am not convinced that Fluker and Jerry are better than Jerry and Newhouse.

I think that the Giants have (3) starting quality offensive linemen Flowers, Pugh, and, Richburg. All the others are backups competing for a starting position. The Giants “Achilles heel” is their offensive line. They cannot run block and have difficulties in protecting Eli. Eli is at his best when he has time in the pocket. The line cannot be ordinary for him to exceed it must be excellent.

The Giants have the makings of a Super Bowl quality defense but the offense is set up to fail. Without the infusion of at least one more quality starter the offense will not be good enough.
The offense needs playmakers: WR, TE, RB.  
Klaatu : 3/20/2017 1:18 pm : link
I expect us to draft a couple, and their impact to be immediate.
Offensive line  
Archer : 3/20/2017 1:43 pm : link
I do not think that a team can win without winning the battle in the trenches.
Back to the Corner