I'm loving this off-season for Jerry Reese, he's addressed almost all the holes on this team. Especially if Hankins accepts Reese's one year contact offer to return.
Although, outside of swapping Marshall Newhouse with DJ Fluker, we are returning everyone from the O-Line last year that struggled to generate a consistent run game or protect Eli. Seems like an ton is riding on the shoulders of Ereck Flowers on if he can hold up at Left Tackle.
If he can, then it's like a domino effect on the rest of the O-Line and we can be serious contenders. If he can't, we might struggle to score points like we did the last 6 games of the season.
What are your thoughts on Ereck Flowers this season, do you think he can take his game to the next level and lock down the Left Tackle position?
The latter I believe can be coached...foot speed can be improved, but to the level needed as LT in the NFL????
The only other option at this point is if they draft Bolles, but then you are placing your hopes on a rookie LT.
Let's hope the coaching staff is up to this challenge!
As for Flowers, he obviously struggled, but what gets overlooked is that he was very young as a rookie, and got thrown to the wolves.
He is now 22 years old, and he played 2 seasons under 2 different coaches.
He could very well make some progress this year.
The_Boss : 1:04 pm : link : reply
EF's been a regular working out at the facility on his own.
If he is working out on his own, then he is probably repeating the same mistakes....
I expected the New OL coach, to fix some of his problems last season...instead, with a healthy ankle, he looked as bad or worse than his rookie year....
So somehow, miraculously, he is going to change overnight?
What really bugged me last season, was McAdoo's refusal to put a TE on his side for a chip block on passing downs....our TE's rarely did a chip block.....how freakin' hard is that?
Can somebody else on the site either refute this or explain what the hell McAdoo is thinking here?
You forgetting the Black Unicorn? Dude blocked better than both are OTs last year!
Shockey was a solid blocking TE as well (at least before the injuries took their toll).
Can somebody else on the site either refute this or explain what the hell McAdoo is thinking here?
This was mentioned fairly often last year. No clue why he didn't receive more help though.
Its not like McAdoo said "fuck it" for 16 straight games being too stubborn to help Flowers.
Can somebody else on the site either refute this or explain what the hell McAdoo is thinking here?
I'm guessing that the TE was probably helping Hart (the Giants could never field two TEs, cuz none of them could block)
As for Flowers, he obviously struggled, but what gets overlooked is that he was very young as a rookie, and got thrown to the wolves.
He is now 22 years old, and he played 2 seasons under 2 different coaches.
He could very well make some progress this year.
+1
The only OL who represented a clear upgrade would have been Whitworth, and signing him would have been a one, *maybe* two yeah band aid that handcuffed them in other areas. The contracts signed by guys like Okung and Kalil were absolutely insane and I'm more than happy they avoided that. GoTerps gets a lot of flak for being negative but he's absolutely right on this one- the time to sign an OL was last year when the market was more robust and the contracts much more reasonable. But they weren't going to panic after one subpar year from Flowers and it's kinda hard to blame them.
Unless he is making huge strides in the offseason - and although it's difficult to believe it's not impossible and something we can't as fans know - I simply cannot see him protecting Manning's blind side in 2017.
If they're available, likely we hear the names Cam Robinson, Ramcyzk, maybe Dawkins on draft day.
He's young. He's likely going to get one more year to improve at LT. Maybe the Giants draft a tackle early to push him, maybe they don't or can't but people act like there's absolutely no hope at all with Flowers and he was the sole reason why the offense struggled. Not to mention, we just won 11 games with Flowers struggling. This talk that the Giants can't win with him is not true. They just did. Yes they need to see improvement but there's going to be improvement based on the massive upgrade to TE and WR, and we haven't even conducted the draft yet.
Not blasting the OP. Just this constant barrage of fear towards the LT spot. I know LT is a vital position but you can't have all pros at every spot. Some positions will struggle. Some guys also do in fact improve. You wouldn't know it if you listened to the masses.
BBI translation: Well..if he's doing THAT, it probably means nobody is there helping him. What a bad idea. He sucks.
Boss a relatively positive post from you. Case of the Tuesdays?
Flowers has to grow and develop more quickly, him remaining entrenched was expected.
It's just crazy to hear some of this
Him raising his game slightly is not only realistic, it will pay huge dividends for 2017 and beyond.
These types of trades tend to happen right around the draft - like when we almost traded Cofield for a 2nd rounder.
BBI translation: Well..if he's doing THAT, it probably means nobody is there helping him. What a bad idea. He sucks.
Ha, spot on
Jerry worked hard and became a decent player, he needs to continue this trend, and Fluker is a player that is very similar to Flowers, another underachiever, when I look at Flowers play I don't see a player that is so overmatched that there is no hope, I see a player making some stupid mistakes, and I see him letting his emotions get the best of him at times also.
I think he can become a pretty good player, and I have said this before and will repeat it, I think he just needs to work his ass off to get the kind of play we need from him. I don't think he has done that, and that is partly the coaching staffs responsibility, they need to tap into that motor, if it is possible with this kid.
The other thing is that we still have the draft, and people writing off the possibility that there is not a starting left tackle in this draft, or a starting right tackle that can help this offensive line this season is also premature, I agree we should not bank on that, but I have seen this all before, they say it's a bad draft for starting tackles, then when players start to play and do well they all backtrack, I have seen that story too many times with other positions too.
The last thing is that it was McAdoo's first season, he made many rookie mistakes, but the team made the playoffs and won 11 games, I think this coach is going to be better this year and that may make a huge difference, especially in regards to preparation and even the play calling. I do not think the entire season hinges on Flowers, not by a long shot, he could make a difference for the team but I would not put all this on him at all. There are 52 other players on the team, and there is an entire coaching staff. To place the season on him is just unfair.
2nd year, the new coach is trying to fix his technique and break the bad habits. Rather than not having to think about what your body is doing he is out there having to think way too much. Hence you will appear to regress rather than make advances. Those fractions of seconds matter a lot in the NFL. That is why he looks good at times and horrible at others. Coaches are saying he is working hard so I will go with those who see him every day up close.
From your O-Line-savvy mouth to God's ear.
I know this much:
There's debate over Flowers' level of play, but it's clear he wasn't good enough.
The Giants know that he wasn't good enough.
The front office's job includes having a Plan B should any player get hurt or fail. Sometimes those plans are thin (Geno Smith at QB if Eli misses time?) and sometimes they fail, but they exist.
So are the Giants banking their entire 2017 season on Ereck Flowers being a top OLT? Highly unlikely. More likely: They are working with him, expecting him to improve, hoping for the best and quietly preparing for the worst.
...do you think he can take his game to the next level and lock down the Left Tackle position?
Short answer: NO!
Long answer: HELL NO!
Anyhow as far as OL goes.. that was our biggest and second biggest need going into this season and we have done nothing on that front to solve the issue and whoever we draft isn't going to be as good a prospect as Fluker, Pugh or Flowers and all 3 of those have disappointed.. While we could've lived with no TE or a second WR there is no way this team will survive if our OL plays like last year.. and so far we have done nothing to improve it..
If his seasons were transposed, you'd see something he could build off of in his rookie season and potential. Some have lost sight of that because of his sophomore campaign. It's too early to do that.
Take your pick
Whose not calm? This is a discussion board and we're having a discussion about Ereck Flowers. LOL
I dont look at Flowers being as much of a problem as many of you do. Yes hes a grabber....all young LTs that start from day one not named Ogden, Pace, or Munoz are. Yes, he has got beaten because of bad feet..,.that can be taught to be corrected. What you cant teach is his size, athleticism and propensity towards violence. As many others have said: hes 22! Most rookies are his age and he has two years under his belt. You can make the argument that he was a bit of a reach. But you cant deny his physical tools and his potential to dominate his side of the line. You dont give up on that after two years.
My solution is to either draft a tackle to play either spot with Flowers at the other and put Fluker at gaurd or draft a guard and let Fluker and Hart battle it out.Iwould be really happy if they drafted a tackle and a gaurd early and have some real competition for these spots.
They still have the draft, but at the moment staying with Flowers as opposed to FA was the better move
So through a combo of factors, Flowers will get another chance (likely with a draft pick low at OL to maybe push him, or maybe more likely push for RT). He's still very young, and physically has the tools to be really good. He could put it together and become a beast - players develop after a few years all the time, OL is said to be a position with a fair learning curve, and I expect the Giants will do everything possible to not only coach him up, but scheme to help him too (Welcome MR. Ellison!). If he can even bring his play up to even just average, with an O that gets rid of the ball quickly like ours, that may be enough to get really good results. We basically have all of last year's pieces (possibly less Hankins) plus a few new toys on O, and will still add some impact in draft/replacement DT if Hankins leaves (hopefully). There's a lot to be excited about for this team - people focus on OL because it's the biggest hole right now, but there's a lot else to like if we can get a little improvement from the OL
He needs some help...and he's got a lot of work to do, but he has tremendous talent. Cover him with a TE.....run at him...... let him grow up a bit.
If you're gonna draft young linemen, you've got to help them...and you grow through the pain...they won 11 Games with their young linemen struggling---I believe they will bust out.