As all Knicks fans probably know, there is now considerable discussion that Melo will waive his no-trade and leave after this season. Two benefits to the Knicks are obvious: cap room, and the opportunity to pursue a an athletic, quick small forward along with a pass-first point guard, between free agency with cash to spend, and the draft.
The question I have is simple: do the Knicks actually get anything back for Melo? What might that be? Draft pick? Rotation player? What?
As for the lottery, i do believe the 5 to 8 scenario only plays out under the circumstances you mentioned.
“We’ll limit those guys throughout the game, but at the end of the game, those main guys play the final eight minutes to get us a win,’’ Hornacek said.
Reading some of Hornacek's quotes in this article, you can tell he's selling out to keep his job. He wanted very little to do with the triangle when he arrived, and now he sounds like Tex Winter.
Berman/NYPost - ( New Window )
He found his 3 shot, imo. Much easier to crash the boards when you're a rookie just finding your way as opposed to being, before injury, a very good distance shooter getting a larger share of the offense.
Among the top 5, he's probably the one Phil will fall in love with.
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Hornacek said he will limit minutes for veterans such as Anthony and Rose in the final 12 games, but wants them playing down the stretch of close contests. The Knicks would be seeded sixth in the NBA Draft lottery if the season ended today, and some part of the fan base hopes more losses result in a better seed.
“We’ll limit those guys throughout the game, but at the end of the game, those main guys play the final eight minutes to get us a win,’’ Hornacek said.
Reading some of Hornacek's quotes in this article, you can tell he's selling out to keep his job. He wanted very little to do with the triangle when he arrived, and now he sounds like Tex Winter. Berman/NYPost - ( New Window )
I really do wonder what the quotes from obvious tanking coaches sound like. I'd bet its similar. It's a lot more palatable for the league if you lie about tanking. What should he do -- stand up there and say he wont play his best players because he wants to lose?
Lets judge him by what he does in close games, not what he says he will do. And just in case, hope we dont have close games.
Tatum is also a better athlete and defender.
Also, aside from injuries, how exactly Parker "not turned out great"? This year it started to become a conversation of whether him or Wiggins is actually better (Wiggins is better, but it certainly could be debated).
I'd agree he doesn't fit on the Bucks in Kidd's positionless, switch everything style of play, but no one really heralded him as a defensive stalwart coming into the league. In fact, it was quite the opposite.
"I'm speaking for myself and not Phil but Luke Kennard is exactly the kind of 2 guard the triangle needs to succeed"- Charley Rosen
Even for an AD fan, I don't think there is a player under 25 I'd even consider taking over GF. Not even for injury reasons. He's a PG that provides rim protection. That's mind boggling in a Lebron James type way.
Jumper isn't there yet and his vision/being able to see plays develop isn't at an elite level yet, but man it doesn't even need to be for him to be a surefire HoFer. Don't intend to talk in potential/future speak, but I don't know what is holding him back from becoming a top 20 all time player one day.
Just get guys that defend their position and hit 3s (Brogdon, Middleton). And the rings will come.
When I see guys like Bacon, Swanigan, etc. Projected as 2nd rounders I just know to wait closer to the draft to see how it sorts out.
I was listening to Barstool's NBA podcast and Tyler Withers (I think thats his last name) said he's a modern day Zach Randolph. Haven't heard anything that makes more sense regarding the draft this year. He'll give you those double doubles and toughness but also that extra range/passing thats expected of bigs nowadays.
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is a projected 2nd rounder? Jeez. 6'9 elite rebounder with 3 point range. I get that he's not a top notch athlete but 2nd round? Do me up #MillsapLight
When I see guys like Bacon, Swanigan, etc. Projected as 2nd rounders I just know to wait closer to the draft to see how it sorts out.
I was listening to Barstool's NBA podcast and Tyler Withers (I think thats his last name) said he's a modern day Zach Randolph. Haven't heard anything that makes more sense regarding the draft this year. He'll give you those double doubles and toughness but also that extra range/passing thats expected of bigs nowadays.
makes sense. Just seems too good to be true as a 2nd rounder. 19, 13 and 3 with 43% from 3, won't even be 20 until next month. 2nd round? No brainer.
As an Indiana fan I'd take Swanigan 11 times out of 10 over Thomas Bryant.
"I'm speaking for myself and not Phil but Luke Kennard is exactly the kind of 2 guard the triangle needs to succeed"- Charley Rosen
didnt we hear that last time and no one knew he was high on kp, even woj said phil doesnt like anyone and is going to trade out...
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excited to hear Phil high on some guy projected in the teens-20's that fits the triangle.
"I'm speaking for myself and not Phil but Luke Kennard is exactly the kind of 2 guard the triangle needs to succeed"- Charley Rosen
didnt we hear that last time and no one knew he was high on kp, even woj said phil doesnt like anyone and is going to trade out...
Lyles was the guy Phil "supposedly" was eyeing.
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In comment 13403070 DanMetroMan said:
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excited to hear Phil high on some guy projected in the teens-20's that fits the triangle.
"I'm speaking for myself and not Phil but Luke Kennard is exactly the kind of 2 guard the triangle needs to succeed"- Charley Rosen
didnt we hear that last time and no one knew he was high on kp, even woj said phil doesnt like anyone and is going to trade out...
Lyles was the guy Phil "supposedly" was eyeing.
thats who it was i couldnt remember the players name that we all hated
Melli is an Italian-born power forward who has spent the last six seasons playing at the top level of European basketball, first at EA7 Milano and now for Brose Bamberg. He’s grown up through the last few seasons, from bit player in 2011-2012 into a very solid starting four. Having lost former Pitt Panther Brad Wanamaker over the summer, Brose has struggled so far this season. But even though they’re 2-6 in Euroleague play, Melli has done a great job of helping to shoulder some of the load as his team adjusts. He’s currently averaging 12 points, eight rebounds, and two assists per game in Euroleague play, and he’s often a focal point of the Brose offense, even if he doesn’t score a lot. Perhaps more importantly, though, this season has let Melli showcase why at 25-years old, he could be primed for a jump to the NBA.
Louis Olinde https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Olinde
And Daniel Theis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Theis
All are considered potential NBA talent by David Pink
That is my recollection.
Malik Monk, SG, Kentucky: Prepare the Garden for more than a few 40-point nights, while giving the Knicks the perimeter defender they’ve lacked since ... Gerald Wilkins?
8 Kings
Lauri Markkanen, PF, Arizona: They can just use all their old DeMarcus Cousins sets beyond the 3-point line, and Isaac can help mask some of Markkanen’s defensive limitations against fours.
9 Timberwolves
DeAaron Fox, PG, Kentucky: There’s just no way Tom Thibodeau misses a chance to add the best defender at the point in this draft. What does this mean for Kris Dunn?
"I'm speaking for myself and not Phil but Luke Kennard is exactly the kind of 2 guard the triangle needs to succeed"- Charley Rosen
This scenario scares the shit out of me. Honestly having Phil do anything this offseason is scary. Hopefully there's a breakup in April and Dolan gives a blank check to a top GM.
They can fire phil the minute the draft ends. Not really against him handling the pick to be honest.
He's not a PG. He's a small 2 so no.
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He's not a PG. He's a small 2 so no.
i understand that but the triangle works the best with moving the ball, he would be off the ball a lot even playing the point..
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In comment 13403198 nygiants16 said:
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He's not a PG. He's a small 2 so no.
i understand that but the triangle works the best with moving the ball, he would be off the ball a lot even playing the point..
The triangle isn't going to dictate what we pick. I would hope not. Grant wasn't the most triangle-PG ever to say the least, didn't stop phil from taking him.
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In comment 13403198 nygiants16 said:
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..
He's not a PG. He's a small 2 so no.
i understand that but the triangle works the best with moving the ball, he would be off the ball a lot even playing the point..
Correction: All that we know is that the triangle works best when you have one of the top two shooting guards of all time.
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In comment 13403202 DanMetroMan said:
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In comment 13403198 nygiants16 said:
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He's not a PG. He's a small 2 so no.
i understand that but the triangle works the best with moving the ball, he would be off the ball a lot even playing the point..
The triangle isn't going to dictate what we pick. I would hope not. Grant wasn't the most triangle-PG ever to say the least, didn't stop phil from taking him.
i am not saying it should and i am not even saying i want monk, i was just thinking he could be a better fit for the knicks opposed to other teams...
remember westbrook was not considered a point guard coming out either..
To be clear, it is really 5 "picks" including players picked for us in pre-arranged trades. KP, Willy (trade), Cleanthony, Brother of Giannis, and Labeyrie (trade).
I basically dont evaluate the last two as guys picked in the 50s. This is way beyond crapshoot territory even in ok draft years.
What is notable is that only Cleanthony played NCAA. Seems like Phil maybe trusts his European scouting more than his US scouting. Something to watch for this year with our #2s. And even the French PG in the 1st.
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Phil got 2 All Rookie team players and the other was intriguing enough to package in a trade, not up in arms about Phil picks. But we need a new GM for a clear rebuilding direction stance.
To be clear, it is really 5 "picks" including players picked for us in pre-arranged trades. KP, Willy (trade), Cleanthony, Brother of Giannis, and Labeyrie (trade).
I basically dont evaluate the last two as guys picked in the 50s. This is way beyond crapshoot territory even in ok draft years.
What is notable is that only Cleanthony played NCAA. Seems like Phil maybe trusts his European scouting more than his US scouting. Something to watch for this year with our #2s. And even the French PG in the 1st.
Forgot phil was here for the Cleanthony pick. But yeah, with 50s picks I'm not expecting anything.
Just not afraid that Phil would fuck up our pick or anything.
1 of these is not the zame as the others :)
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playing next to Lebron, Simmons, GF, etc.
1 of these is not the zame as the others :)
Well its more like 2 are not the same as 1, but I meant more he fits next to a non-guard Point who can run the offense, wasn't trying to suggest how good each one of those guys are. You can throw in Jokic or Jimmy butler for the sake of argument as well.
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In comment 13403236 giantsfan44ab said:
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playing next to Lebron, Simmons, GF, etc.
1 of these is not the zame as the others :)
Well its more like 2 are not the same as 1, but I meant more he fits next to a non-guard Point who can run the offense, wasn't trying to suggest how good each one of those guys are. You can throw in Jokic or Jimmy butler for the sake of argument as well.
i know just messing
And 2) there is something crazy going on in the NBA this season were some elite guards have absolutely juiced stats. Like the Sosa-McGwire race, except not steroids-fueled. GF's 23-8.4-5.4 with high steals, blocks, and FG% is really impreesive. But Westbrook is averaging 31-10-10 plus. Harden 29-8-11, dragging an under-talented Rockets team to a 3 seed. Thomas is averaging 29 and 6 with fantastic shooting splits.
Seems like something is going on that is inflating elite guard numbers, and I'd be interested to learn what it is. Coincidence? How games are being officiated? I have a theory -- the NBA is going thru a talent crisis which is being disguised by the fact that it doesnt extend to the top level of talent (although I think the league will feel empty is LeBron retired). There arent 300 rotation worthy players or anything close to it. The problem is exacerbated by players playing fewer minutes and starters, pushing scrubs into bigger roles. And the recent trend of super teams is exposing it more.
And 2) there is something crazy going on in the NBA this season were some elite guards have absolutely juiced stats. Like the Sosa-McGwire race, except not steroids-fueled. GF's 23-8.4-5.4 with high steals, blocks, and FG% is really impreesive. But Westbrook is averaging 31-10-10 plus. Harden 29-8-11, dragging an under-talented Rockets team to a 3 seed. Thomas is averaging 29 and 6 with fantastic shooting splits.
Seems like something is going on that is inflating elite guard numbers, and I'd be interested to learn what it is. Coincidence? How games are being officiated? I have a theory -- the NBA is going thru a talent crisis which is being disguised by the fact that it doesnt extend to the top level of talent (although I think the league will feel empty is LeBron retired). There arent 300 rotation worthy players or anything close to it. The problem is exacerbated by players playing fewer minutes and starters, pushing scrubs into bigger roles. And the recent trend of super teams is exposing it more.
Thats a damn good theory, don't disagree. I've noticed the juice stats across the board, not just the PG position.
I mean look no further than the Wolves. They have (had) 3 20-point scorers (and pretty efficient ones at that) and that didn't really translate.
Another theory could be there are more 3 point attempts than every before, and that means defenders running around more chasing off shooters beyond the arc, which leads to overall energy expenditure, making it hard to play defense later in games and throughout the season.
Also, whats the number of possessions compared to years past? Everyones been trying to emulate the Warriors, so more faster paced teams = more stats in general.
I wonder if all the stats are adjusted according to pace, this year just doesn't stand out that much more compared to other years in recent history.
Also, comparing to Giannis to those other stats inflated PGs: I don't think any of them even sniff Giannis's defensive impact (at least the ones you listed).
It would be interesting to see how he is defended in the playoffs. But if you throw on a bigger defender onto him, then you have to see how Middleton is guarded. Last night, Allen Crabbe was guarding Middleton, but Middleton constantly just posted him up. And while Crabbe was doing a good job of trying to keep him off his spot, he conceded a few inches (and Crabbe has good size for a 2 guard) and there just wasn't anything he could really do.
After rotating bigger guys onto Giannis, I wonder how much you can actually prevent before guys like Middleton and Brogdon have favorable matchups/mismatches.
I'm not a big Snell guy, but he also has good size for a wing and can get his shot off pretty easily when smaller defenders are on him (shooting 40% from 3).
I concede there is a clear big 5, after that I like Monk the most.
Realistically, I like Smith the most after Fultz/Ball/Jackson, but I just know Phil will scoff at the notion of picking him.
Monk's high school tape - ( New Window )
I concede there is a clear big 5, after that I like Monk the most.
Realistically, I like Smith the most after Fultz/Ball/Jackson, but I just know Phil will scoff at the notion of picking him. Monk's high school tape - ( New Window )
Idk, Jamaal Murray was playing literally the same exact role last year and he doesn't look anymore like a playmaking guard than he was at UK.
There was a game where Fox didn't play this year and Monk had like 2 assists.
Just to be clear, I'd take Monk over Murray, but the fact that he's averaging almost as many TOs as assists for not being a lead guard is extremely concerning if you are expecting him to be a 1 in the NBA.
Is Juwan Evans coming out? Can he make it to our second round pick?