I read quite a bit on the Giants as well as participate here and everything I have read says Flowers is the kind of guy you want at LT. First, he is huge, has good feet, athletically he is excellent for a man his size and he has a mean, nasty attitude. We have seen how durable and tough he is as he has not missed a game since being a Giant and fought through a nasty ankle injury in his first year. He has long arms and strong hands. He is very good in the run game.
I have read and heard all of this from people like Eric, Pat Traina, Ralph V and many others. The big issue, especially in the pass game, seems to be technique and working to improve that technique. He has an issue with penalties as we are all aware.
For my uninitiated brain, this tells me his work ethic may be poor and that he has a problem working to accept coaching to better his technique and then continuing to work at it. Sounds to me like he is hardheaded and remains very immature. I understand he is still very young. I've always thought playing left tackle is more about having good technique than anything else. All the rest is a bonus but if you have lousy technique, your career will be short.
So, for those who know better, why hasn't his technique improved. He certainly has had coaches with great credentials and he seems to have all the other intangibles. Why hasn't he got any better from year 1 to year two?
Flowers is young - very young. He will continually get better as he matures. The harsh criticism of him is fan paranoia who don't understand that there isn't a perfect LT behind every tree or that they are in abundance in free agency. Note that 35 yr old Andrew Whitworth at the twilight of his NFL career got a 3-year 34 million dollar contract. Try to think of another position in which a team will pay that much money for a declining player at the end of his career. That should tell you everything you need to know about the difficulty in filling the LT position with star power.
That's fair but doesn't change the fact that he's part of the solution and not the entire problem. I think our mistake was not being more aggressive last year in bringing in competition last year or at minimum upgrading our RT, but this year FA was not all that appealing at tackle and the few guys that were available got paid a lot. Adding someone like Bolles or Lamp would go a long way to fixing the OL regardless of where they play in relation to Flowers.
The only way that you wake up a kid like this is FEAR of losing his job.
You bring in real competition to light a fire under his ass.....OR better yet....you bring in an established starting LT (Joe Thomas) on the back half of his career who can actually protect Eli while mentoring this kid and turn him into a pro.
I didn't really have a problem with the pick at the time (though I did believe it was a reach at #9 overall). The problem I've had is never making him earn the job.
How about that he's ill-suited for this offense? He's a snarling, nasty, aggressive square-peg of a power guy forced into a passive, wimpy offensive round hole of a scheme?
He shows a lot of ability to recover, but the first steps are putting him behind the Eightball. Even when everything goes as he plans and he makes the block he is about a foot away from Eli. He just gives the defender so much ground.
Problem is, it is not that easy to change the way you have played. Often times you become mechanical and it is only over time that the changes takes and become natural.
It is a learning process often impeded by competition. If you have ever been a athlete at any level, you understand that under pressure it is very easy to revert to what is comfortable.
I have no idea if this is the case with Flowers or if he will ever become an effective or even great Tackle.
I'll let the coaches figure it out.
Having two different OL coaches in two years probably hasn't helped.
He is a child. He is the same age as a number of players in this draft. There is hope.
Just what we all think of you...
This does not mean he is "dumb" like previously stated. Does not mean he is not giving 100%, or working out, and studying game film like he should. The guy can be the best we have in these areas but we just do not see that translating into productive play.
So, we have to really figure out where we went wrong..
1. Initial scouting mid-judgement?
2. Coaching?
3. Is he out of position for his skill set?
I read quite a bit on the Giants as well as participate here and everything I have read says Flowers is the kind of guy you want at LT. First, he is huge,
He certainly is
has good feet,
That I don't know, haven't seen him with shoes/socks off....oh you mean he moves well? No, he doesn't....
athletically he is excellent for a man his size and he has a mean, nasty attitude.
Yes, especially after the play is over...during? Not so much....have never seen him angrily block anyone....he is too busy backing up....
We have seen how durable and tough he is as he has not missed a game since being a Giant and fought through a nasty ankle injury in his first year.
He has missed a game.....and maybe he should have been sat down to light a fire under his ass...
He has long arms and strong hands.
What good are they if you don't use them efficiently?
He is very good in the run game.
Very good? Really? Well, I don't recall the Giants consistently picking up short yardage to his side, or anywhere else, for that matter....fact is, for where he was drafted, we have not received value.....
And as for the same mistakes we see, week after week, if Solari couldn't make ANY improvement over a year, how much more can he change this guy....
We need to park a TE on his side, and give a chip block to slow down that DE, and maybe it will give Eli an extra half second...
This may have caused hiccup in development last year, particularly if Solari stresses different things.
This may have caused hiccup in development last year, particularly if Solari stresses different things.
Disagree. Flowers was here for 1 year before Solari. He can't handle a coaching position change when he was only here for 1 year before? Meh.
I agree. And it takes longer now because as others (may have been you) pointed out, the new CBA limits on practice time in training camp make it more difficult to teach and create chemistry.
he did. and it showed in Eli being able to throw with authority. Too bad nobody caught the ball.
He's 22 years old. Bolles, one of the top LT prospects entering this draft is 25. Just think about that. Give the kid a chance. He has the potential to be much better. Just have to give him some time.
But if one is not in balance and falling all over the place, you can't really use the aforementioned quick feet to do the job.
He has the Size, Quickness, and power to play the position. Maybe they just need to do a better job of coaching him.
Feeling more alive than ever
The Sunday before Flowers Draft, I wrote a column on "the Perfect Storm for Schreff". I posted al list of every Offensive linemen Jerry drafted after the 2nd rd. since hitting on Snee in RD 2 of Eli's class. Everyone was garbage. My feeling was if we did not draft a OL in Rd1, we would be forced to draft best offensive linemen in 2nd, period.
Well Washington blew up that theory, and took Schreff at 6. And moved him to Guard anyway. The following year, we could have had Martin, but obviously we didn't do too bad with Odell.
There's a Miami party boat full of Joeckels, and Fishers, drafted higher then 9 at LOT recently who just haven't panned out. At least our guy is only 22.
I would rather have JPP, Ellison, & Marshall, and give this kid another year to refine his craft, then throwing all that money at Whitworth and Wagner.
Get it together Ereck. Some us did not give up on you yet.
If so, he needs to do it.
He did play well in the playoff game.
The Sunday before Flowers Draft, I wrote a column on "the Perfect Storm for Schreff". I posted al list of every Offensive linemen Jerry drafted after the 2nd rd. since hitting on Snee in RD 2 of Eli's class. Everyone was garbage. My feeling was if we did not draft a OL in Rd1, we would be forced to draft best offensive linemen in 2nd, period.
Well Washington blew up that theory, and took Schreff at 6. And moved him to Guard anyway. The following year, we could have had Martin, but obviously we didn't do too bad with Odell.
There's a Miami party boat full of Joeckels, and Fishers, drafted higher then 9 at LOT recently who just haven't panned out. At least our guy is only 22.
I would rather have JPP, Ellison, & Marshall, and give this kid another year to refine his craft, then throwing all that money at Whitworth and Wagner.
Get it together Ereck. Some us did not give up on you yet.
+1. Flowers actually has panned out better than a some of those guys. He's only 22, has two years experience, and I am still hopeful he can become a really good player. He has all the skills.
He was less critical overall than the mob, the national media, etc, but EF definitely took his turn breaking down a few plays each game.
Agree that his lack of ability to rebound when he had a bad series or two was noticable.
Karate is excellent in providing a combination of balance, attack and defense all at the same time. For those of you who are not millenials, Andre Tippet of the Pats was a blackbelt. He points to Karate as a huge reason why he was able to win vs the O-lineman. You learn how to get your opponent off balance too.
In fact, I would be getting the OLs, DLs and LBs all on this program.
He did play well in the playoff game.
Let's hope the Flowers we saw that game is the one we see this next year.