He wasn't this good with the Knicks. I'm not sure he would've been, but lets not discredit how he's doing.
If the Knicks had a 24 year old SG that was putting up his numbers and wasn't named "Tim Hardaway Jr." we would all be talking about we had a core 3 and another top pick coming on top of that.
Counterpoint: he's the same player he was last year, albeit taking more shots. Shooting percentages by sub-distances arent materially different. He's added an assist per 36 minutes. WS48 is basically the same.
I'd probably be dreading the idea of having to pay $20+ million a season to resign him this summer more than I'd be celebrating increased volume. But that's my general feel about youth in the NBA. It's great for the first 4 seasons. Then even good players can kill you by eating your cap and preventing better picks, IF you dont have the superstars in place already.
Fair enough. If THJR is going to be making that kind of money I would certainly back off my stance.
I've been saying it, but there has to be a time where these big contracts for mediocre players stops. Cap space should become very valuable in no time at this rate.
Thought they found something with Drummond, acquire Reggie Jackson and Tobias Harris - looks good on paper but where are they going? Same with Indiana - nail the Turner pick, have a two-way superstar in George, and they're in no man's land. The currency of hope, as Alan Hahn always says. We could do everything right these next two years in terms of building through the draft and still wind up in a similar position as them, but it's the best option.
Knicks should take what they can get for Melo as long as it's not more years on a turd like Austin Rivers. Expiring deals, Bryce Johnson, Diamond Stone and 1-2 future picks. So be it.
Again, that seems like what everyone said about the cousins trade.
"hield and a 1st for Cousins?".
If PG is hell bent on coming to LA, why even trade for him? Get him in FA. I don't see what leverage the Pacers even have over the Lakers if george is serious about LA except that the Lakers need to clear some salaries.
There was an implied return in the Cousins trade which was that SAC probably felt that there was a 50-50 chance or worse that they finish outside the bottom 10, and would then lose the protection on that pick. The needed to move Boogie to get worse and save their pick. So I wont say it was Boogie for Buddy and 2 lottery picks this season, but maybe it was Buddy and 1.6 lottery picks? Including improved positioning for the SAC pick.
Different circumstance I think. Kings are also more hopeless (Indy has Turner) and are poorly run.
The Knicks have a clear path to building a really strong young core. The more I read about the 2018 draft, the stronger it sounds. Some really top prospects at the head of the draft.
Knicks need to pair KP/ Willy with hopefully a top 5 2017 pick. Trade Melo for whatever you can get. I really like Lee, but trade him for 2017 1st or future 1st. Don't sign any veterans- no Millsap/ Teague/ Holiday/ Hill.
Let the young team take its lumps in 2017. If they win then its a pleasant surprise and KP obviously makes a huge jump. If they lose big, they get another top pick. Then you truly have a young core you can build around and augment with FA signings after 2018.
The correct direction is so clear and I know they won't do it. They'll chase some veteran FAs and try to contend for the playoffs. The good thing is, Jackson has tried to do that 3 years now and failed miserably.
I think a top pick in 2018 is inevitable. Outside KP/Willy making big strides, the team will not get better.
Even if the Knicks do go after these FAs they will not be the only suitor offering them big money. Not even worried about who we *might* be going after, because we aren't going to get any of them.
Knicks need to pair KP/ Willy with hopefully a top 5 2017 pick. Trade Melo for whatever you can get. I really like Lee, but trade him for 2017 1st or future 1st. Don't sign any veterans- no Millsap/ Teague/ Holiday/ Hill.
I sure hope this is how it plays out. I'm sure they'll make a push for some vets but who's coming here at this point? We're a dumpster fire.
I'd probably be dreading the idea of having to pay $20+ million a season to resign him this summer more than I'd be celebrating increased volume. But that's my general feel about youth in the NBA. It's great for the first 4 seasons. Then even good players can kill you by eating your cap and preventing better picks, IF you dont have the superstars in place already.
Fair enough. If THJR is going to be making that kind of money I would certainly back off my stance.
I've been saying it, but there has to be a time where these big contracts for mediocre players stops. Cap space should become very valuable in no time at this rate.
If we are celebrating/scouting THJR as an emerging solid starter at SG (thin position), in a year with another cap jump, then how can we possibly project him to get less than the $19/season Crabbe got? Either he's worse than Crabbe, and then meh, or he's better, and then $$$$$$$$$.
I dont bemoan the loss of THJR. Solid starters coming up for contracts are fools gold for a team in the Knicks' position.
Again, that seems like what everyone said about the cousins trade.
"hield and a 1st for Cousins?".
If PG is hell bent on coming to LA, why even trade for him? Get him in FA. I don't see what leverage the Pacers even have over the Lakers if george is serious about LA except that the Lakers need to clear some salaries.
There was an implied return in the Cousins trade which was that SAC probably felt that there was a 50-50 chance or worse that they finish outside the bottom 10, and would then lose the protection on that pick. The needed to move Boogie to get worse and save their pick. So I wont say it was Boogie for Buddy and 2 lottery picks this season, but maybe it was Buddy and 1.6 lottery picks? Including improved positioning for the SAC pick.
Different circumstance I think. Kings are also more hopeless (Indy has Turner) and are poorly run.
But Cousins still had 2 years at least (or 1.5). I think for that reason PG has a little less value.
And actually, as much as I'd like Turner, with the two top 10 picks SAC might have this year I think I'd much rather be in SAC's position than Indy who might lose PG for little or nothing.
If skal is say, maybe 80% of what Turner is, then hield, WCS and maybe Tatum and French/fox? I'd much rather be SAC than a lot of these mediocre teams in no mans land (Charlotte, Chicago, Memphis, Indy, Atlanta, etc.). At least from a talent standpoint and not an organizational standpoint. Who knew i would say that.
The Knicks have a clear path to building a really strong young core. The more I read about the 2018 draft, the stronger it sounds. Some really top prospects at the head of the draft.
Knicks need to pair KP/ Willy with hopefully a top 5 2017 pick. Trade Melo for whatever you can get. I really like Lee, but trade him for 2017 1st or future 1st. Don't sign any veterans- no Millsap/ Teague/ Holiday/ Hill.
Let the young team take its lumps in 2017. If they win then its a pleasant surprise and KP obviously makes a huge jump. If they lose big, they get another top pick. Then you truly have a young core you can build around and augment with FA signings after 2018.
The correct direction is so clear and I know they won't do it. They'll chase some veteran FAs and try to contend for the playoffs. The good thing is, Jackson has tried to do that 3 years now and failed miserably.
I think a top pick in 2018 is inevitable. Outside KP/Willy making big strides, the team will not get better.
Even if the Knicks do go after these FAs they will not be the only suitor offering them big money. Not even worried about who we *might* be going after, because we aren't going to get any of them.
But my point is don't half ass it. Do a full rebuild. You just know Jackson will be itching to give a monster contract to Holiday/ Hill or Teague. Just keep the cap clean and go after the top pick. Instead they'll make moves that make them just good enough to barely miss the playoffs. Follow the OKC model and hopefully get that 3rd foundation player. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Phil has the patience to opt for another losing season. It's why I advocate firing him and bringing in a new GM. Someone who will commit to it and not try to do build/contend simultaneously like Phil has done.
Not implying the "bubble" will burst in 2017, I mean more it's going to happen sooner or later. With everyone who hits FA getting "bad" contracts, it's going to get counterbalanced with "good" contracts eventually.
Ennis worth exploring? UFA and only 22, James Young? Maybe he bolts for more PT? He's only 21. Muscala is only 25. Ian Clark?
I'm personally not big on any of those guys but those are the signings you make for a team in the Knicks position. Clark is intriguing, an undersized SG. I'd probably opt to keep Holiday if the price is similar tho.
This. I didnt mind Detroit's approach at all. I liked Drummond, Jackson, Harris, and picking Stanimal. However, Drummond just wont break out of being basically the same player he's always been, which isnt good enough to be the best player on a good team. Jackson got hurt. Stanimal didnt develop. Harris is what I think everyone figured he'd be, a solid starter. They didnt get lucky. If they did, they would be a UFA destination with a chance to do some damage in the coming years (honestly, no one in the East has a chance until LeBron slows down or a surprise super team forms).
The Knicks should throw Crowder an offer Boston potentially wouldn't match. Like $12M a year. It would've been bad on the surface but at least the Knicks would get a young player.
Turns out, $12M would've still been quite the steal.
I think the contracts come back down to earth this offseason. The salary cap isn't escalating as high as everyone once thought, and I believe it's even projected to flatten out in the years to come. Last year was probably an anomaly. Guys will still get overpaid, that's the nature of free agency, but it won't be like last year.
I know everyone reported that they don't expect an amnesty clause in the new CBA, but any chance it still gets included? Or is the CBA a done deal? Would be huge for the Noah contract.
The Knicks should throw Crowder an offer Boston potentially wouldn't match. Like $12M a year. It would've been bad on the surface but at least the Knicks would get a young player.
Turns out, $12M would've still been quite the steal.
Why would the bubble, if it exists, pop this year? Cap is up, plenty of teams have needs and room. Crabbe is a much better comp than Crowder. Crowder was comming offer a trade and <8 point season. He took a bad deal, period, based on advanced stats.Also, there wasnt much of a market for RFAs until last season, realistically.
He's never really cited a specific source but he's pretty well connected to all things Knicks. I interpret it as transitioning from Melo to KP without bottoming out completely. Nice try, Phil.
Any rational Knicks fan wants them to lose in their current situation. There is no pride in this scenario. NBA is about getting top level talent, and being at the top of draft is the best way to do it. We've all followed this team since October. The right thing to do now is lose. I don't even understand why Melo/ Lee/ Rose are playing. I would even limit KP- why risk injury? The Lakers and Suns aren't even hiding it. Winning down the stretcher in 2015 cost the Knicks - they would have gotten the top pick and KAT if they lost out. There's been plenty examples of all out tanking in the past,( Mark Madsen jacking up 3s) theres no shame in it.
Just please don't win the last game against the 76ers.
has started the bucks 16 games since the all star break. Shooting 32% from the floor TS% at 42%. Averaging about 6 rebounds per 36.
His numbers were cute when he was getting meaningless minutes. Not calling you out Dan, btw, but I think comparing him to KP is a bit premature and a disservice to how good KP is. I don't think he's anymore "raw" than KP was coming into the league. He's just a bit (or a lot) more behind from a basketball standpoint (and quite possibly older than KP too).
Not at all saying he's a scrub or will be a scrub, but when Jabari Parker says things like he will be the best 7 footer in the league, it sounds like a Lavar Ball comment. Still a great pick by the bucks, those are the types of picks if you nail consistently you'll end up with a contender sooner or later. I think he'all be a fine player, but he's still a few years away.
Hardaway Jr got them a 1st rounder, right? Hard to kill that move Â
has started the bucks 16 games since the all star break. Shooting 32% from the floor TS% at 42%. Averaging about 6 rebounds per 36.
His numbers were cute when he was getting meaningless minutes. Not calling you out Dan, btw, but I think comparing him to KP is a bit premature and a disservice to how good KP is. I don't think he's anymore "raw" than KP was coming into the league. He's just a bit (or a lot) more behind from a basketball standpoint (and quite possibly older than KP too).
Not at all saying he's a scrub or will be a scrub, but when Jabari Parker says things like he will be the best 7 footer in the league, it sounds like a Lavar Ball comment. Still a great pick by the bucks, those are the types of picks if you nail consistently you'll end up with a contender sooner or later. I think he'all be a fine player, but he's still a few years away.
He hasn't played well but in his defense he was basically viewed as a MAJOR project with some skills. He only turned 20 in Feb. If we didn't pick top 3 I'd deal our pick for Maker (the Bucks almost certainly wouldn't).
RE: Hardaway Jr got them a 1st rounder, right? Hard to kill that move Â
But in hindsight maybe we need to consider not quitting on young players too fast when we're not instantly gratified and try to have a longer view.
Agree about this point. I thought it was a steal when it happened though. In fairness, the Hawks player development with Bud is far superior to what the Knicks have.
All reports were that the scouting staff didn't like Grant but Phil went on his own and picked him. That exact scenario scares the shit out of me for the coming draft. "Phil likes TJ Leaf at 7- perfect fit for the triangle." Or passing on Smith because he doesn't fit the triangle...
maybe if it was 9-10 or later I would. I think I'd easily take any of the top 7 over Maker.
And I really don't believe he's just turned 20. Howard Beck was on Lowe's podcast after he wrote that article and said someone who he talked to who researched the HS's he went to and said he might be around 22-23. Not old by any means, but he's not like developing into his body.
IU was recruiting him heavily and before he made his decision to go the NBA it came down between ASU and IU and I was watching a lot of his stuff. He has a very thin frame, which will limit how much mass he can put on long term. I don't think he'll ever become an even average rebounder.
A lot of his deficiencies will not factor on the bucks. He won't have to create his shot as often (he has a nice handle for a big, but I don't think it's polished enough to be a major weapon in the NBA). Rebounding for him will be overlooked so long as GF is there.
And I really don't know the way the term "raw" is thrown around anymore. Just because he's not good at basketball but has nice physical tools makes him more "raw" and thus a higher ceiling compared to a guy like KP?
The issue with him in the draft was that he lacked in the fundamental areas bigs are required to have, even in the modern NBA. However he couldn't have fallen to a better team to cover his weaknesses. He'll be an impact player in Milwaukee.
unquestionably take Fultz, Ball, Jackson top 3 (I admit I'm probably even higher on Jackson than most. I just get a feeling his upside is potentially actual "superstar" or "2nd star with legit superstar". He has some unusual qualities. I'm already on record as not being a fan of Fox. I won't go nuts if we end up with him I just don't see "it" with him. Gun to my head I probably take Smith over Maker (assuming the knee checked out). Extremely high on Isaac, and I like Markkanen. So adjusting my statement I'd trade our pick (not that it's on the table) if we picked after the top 7 but wouldn't lose my shit vs. anyone outside of the top 3 (though the fact we need a PG and Smith is viewed as potentially elite one, I'd probably be bummed if we dealt the pick with Smith on the board).
Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Smith
Isaac
Markkanen
Tatum
Essentially I'd take Maker over Fox, Frenchy and Monk
Isaac? I have him outside the top 10. Doesn't do anything on offense well. A big pass for me.
I think you are underrating his offense quite a bit. First, he's shooting 35% from 3, 51% from the field so the "doesn't do anything on offense well" stuff isn't really fair. Second his numbers are diminished because FSU runs 12 deep. He's extremely mobile (can even take the ball up the court as the point on the FB). Jonathan Tjarks absolutely loves him
"When he does get to create offense for others, he shows flashes of rare vision and passing ability for a guy his size. It’s almost impossible to stop an explosive 6-foot-10 athlete who can shoot and pass over the top of a defense:
It will be interesting to see if he becomes more aggressive on offense as he acclimates to the college schedule, especially once Florida State’s slate of games increases in difficulty in ACC play. The potential is there. In this sequence against Temple, Isaac uses a Eurostep to split a pick-and-roll and draw a foul:
What we’re seeing is still mostly potential at this point. Isaac is more a collection of interesting skills than a complete basketball player. While he usually makes the right decisions when he is on the floor, he doesn’t always execute them correctly. He can get loose with the ball in traffic, and creating shots against smaller and faster defenders who can get into his dribble might be difficult for him if he’s forced to play more as a wing SF at the next level" Link - ( New Window )
"At the age of 19, he has shown the ability to defend multiple positions, shoot the ball, put it on the floor, create for himself and others, rebound, and protect the rim. His skill set would allow him to fit on almost any team in the lottery, and a player with his combination of size, shooting ability, and athleticism makes for a useful NBA player, even if he never develops any further. Isaac has a high floor, and an even higher ceiling. He’s a 6-foot-10 player who can do everything on the basketball court well, and there aren’t many players like that at any level of the game. Jonathan Isaac is not being talked about a lot right now, but that will change soon enough."
RE: RE: Hardaway Jr got them a 1st rounder, right? Hard to kill that move Â
But in hindsight maybe we need to consider not quitting on young players too fast when we're not instantly gratified and try to have a longer view.
Agree about this point. I thought it was a steal when it happened though. In fairness, the Hawks player development with Bud is far superior to what the Knicks have.
All reports were that the scouting staff didn't like Grant but Phil went on his own and picked him. That exact scenario scares the shit out of me for the coming draft. "Phil likes TJ Leaf at 7- perfect fit for the triangle." Or passing on Smith because he doesn't fit the triangle...
not sure how you come to that conclusion, when grant was not your typical triangle point guard..
Did phil draft strictly for triangle last time he had picks? no so why would you be concerned now?
and how exactly is the hawks player development better? Â
He went hard after DeAndre Jordan, who is the polar opposite of a "Triangle" big, and of course Rose and Jennings - and Grant - are the polar opposites of "Triangle" point guards. I really have no clue what that man is doing, and I'm assuming neither does he.
Not sure they'll ever be able to attract that big FA to put them over the top (Milwaukee, after all), but I love watching them play.
They did get Monroe when everyone thought it was a big deal that Monroe "spurned" the Knicks for a high upside team.
I don't really think they'd need to get a big time FA. Giannis can easily be a top 3 player in a few years, if not the premier player in the NBA.
I hype him up all the time, but Ill always think middleton is criminally underrated until he makes an all star team. There have been worse players that have made all star teams in recent years (yeah I realize the '15 Hawks makes that easy to say, so does Kobe in his final year). But also guys like wade and Melo who made it in recent years. He's not in the harden/derozan/Klay class of 2 guards but he's right behind with Beal and Bradley IMO.
I've taken isssue with all the dumb contracts they've been handing out but they seem convinced they'll have to build from within. Otherwise maybe they could get Dwayne wade to come for a year or two and play off the bench.
RE: and how exactly is the hawks player development better? Â
whp has the hawks deceloped? Hardaway is still the same chucker and do nothing else player..
Hard to call him a chucker when he's shooting 36% from 3 and over 50% from 2.
He's not a defensive stopper by any means but I don't think he's the sieve people on this board think he is. He has great size for a 2 guard and plays with intensity.
RE: and how exactly is the hawks player development better? Â
he is avegaing 18 and 8 this season in atlanta, how much better has atlanta made him?
Also double the assists, shooting more 3s. Not saying he was a scrub in Utah, but he played with some damn good players there and he's playing well as the lead dog in Atlanta. He shouldn't be a lead dog of a good team, but he's carrying a pretty average team to a top 4 seed. I didn't think he was that type of player in Utah.
RE: RE: milsap averaged 16 and 8 his last 3 seasons in utah Â
he is avegaing 18 and 8 this season in atlanta, how much better has atlanta made him?
Also double the assists, shooting more 3s. Not saying he was a scrub in Utah, but he played with some damn good players there and he's playing well as the lead dog in Atlanta. He shouldn't be a lead dog of a good team, but he's carrying a pretty average team to a top 4 seed. I didn't think he was that type of player in Utah.
agreed on the part he is shooting more 3s but i think that is more the offense they run, he is a face up big, never developed the post up game..
utah he scored more on his hustle and pick snd roll but he was still a very good player
are other guys they've done a nice job developing. They havent had premium picks to develop. I guess you could get on them for not turning any picks into home runs.
Draft Express has him at #9 and dropping. Yup everyone has him in the top 7 ok proven wrong. So you want to take a player maybe top 5?) who averages 12.0 pts per game and build your team around? I'll pass. You can find 12 pt players all day in the NBA which are not top 5 picks. As said, 35% from 3? Got to stroke it better than that. 51% from the floor? at 6'11" he better do that all day around the rim.
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He wasn't this good with the Knicks. I'm not sure he would've been, but lets not discredit how he's doing.
If the Knicks had a 24 year old SG that was putting up his numbers and wasn't named "Tim Hardaway Jr." we would all be talking about we had a core 3 and another top pick coming on top of that.
Counterpoint: he's the same player he was last year, albeit taking more shots. Shooting percentages by sub-distances arent materially different. He's added an assist per 36 minutes. WS48 is basically the same.
I'd probably be dreading the idea of having to pay $20+ million a season to resign him this summer more than I'd be celebrating increased volume. But that's my general feel about youth in the NBA. It's great for the first 4 seasons. Then even good players can kill you by eating your cap and preventing better picks, IF you dont have the superstars in place already.
Fair enough. If THJR is going to be making that kind of money I would certainly back off my stance.
I've been saying it, but there has to be a time where these big contracts for mediocre players stops. Cap space should become very valuable in no time at this rate.
Again, that seems like what everyone said about the cousins trade.
"hield and a 1st for Cousins?".
If PG is hell bent on coming to LA, why even trade for him? Get him in FA. I don't see what leverage the Pacers even have over the Lakers if george is serious about LA except that the Lakers need to clear some salaries.
There was an implied return in the Cousins trade which was that SAC probably felt that there was a 50-50 chance or worse that they finish outside the bottom 10, and would then lose the protection on that pick. The needed to move Boogie to get worse and save their pick. So I wont say it was Boogie for Buddy and 2 lottery picks this season, but maybe it was Buddy and 1.6 lottery picks? Including improved positioning for the SAC pick.
Different circumstance I think. Kings are also more hopeless (Indy has Turner) and are poorly run.
Knicks need to pair KP/ Willy with hopefully a top 5 2017 pick. Trade Melo for whatever you can get. I really like Lee, but trade him for 2017 1st or future 1st. Don't sign any veterans- no Millsap/ Teague/ Holiday/ Hill.
Let the young team take its lumps in 2017. If they win then its a pleasant surprise and KP obviously makes a huge jump. If they lose big, they get another top pick. Then you truly have a young core you can build around and augment with FA signings after 2018.
The correct direction is so clear and I know they won't do it. They'll chase some veteran FAs and try to contend for the playoffs. The good thing is, Jackson has tried to do that 3 years now and failed miserably.
I think a top pick in 2018 is inevitable. Outside KP/Willy making big strides, the team will not get better.
Even if the Knicks do go after these FAs they will not be the only suitor offering them big money. Not even worried about who we *might* be going after, because we aren't going to get any of them.
I sure hope this is how it plays out. I'm sure they'll make a push for some vets but who's coming here at this point? We're a dumpster fire.
I'd probably be dreading the idea of having to pay $20+ million a season to resign him this summer more than I'd be celebrating increased volume. But that's my general feel about youth in the NBA. It's great for the first 4 seasons. Then even good players can kill you by eating your cap and preventing better picks, IF you dont have the superstars in place already.
Fair enough. If THJR is going to be making that kind of money I would certainly back off my stance.
I've been saying it, but there has to be a time where these big contracts for mediocre players stops. Cap space should become very valuable in no time at this rate.
If we are celebrating/scouting THJR as an emerging solid starter at SG (thin position), in a year with another cap jump, then how can we possibly project him to get less than the $19/season Crabbe got? Either he's worse than Crabbe, and then meh, or he's better, and then $$$$$$$$$.
I dont bemoan the loss of THJR. Solid starters coming up for contracts are fools gold for a team in the Knicks' position.
Quote:
Again, that seems like what everyone said about the cousins trade.
"hield and a 1st for Cousins?".
If PG is hell bent on coming to LA, why even trade for him? Get him in FA. I don't see what leverage the Pacers even have over the Lakers if george is serious about LA except that the Lakers need to clear some salaries.
There was an implied return in the Cousins trade which was that SAC probably felt that there was a 50-50 chance or worse that they finish outside the bottom 10, and would then lose the protection on that pick. The needed to move Boogie to get worse and save their pick. So I wont say it was Boogie for Buddy and 2 lottery picks this season, but maybe it was Buddy and 1.6 lottery picks? Including improved positioning for the SAC pick.
Different circumstance I think. Kings are also more hopeless (Indy has Turner) and are poorly run.
But Cousins still had 2 years at least (or 1.5). I think for that reason PG has a little less value.
And actually, as much as I'd like Turner, with the two top 10 picks SAC might have this year I think I'd much rather be in SAC's position than Indy who might lose PG for little or nothing.
If skal is say, maybe 80% of what Turner is, then hield, WCS and maybe Tatum and French/fox? I'd much rather be SAC than a lot of these mediocre teams in no mans land (Charlotte, Chicago, Memphis, Indy, Atlanta, etc.). At least from a talent standpoint and not an organizational standpoint. Who knew i would say that.
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The Knicks have a clear path to building a really strong young core. The more I read about the 2018 draft, the stronger it sounds. Some really top prospects at the head of the draft.
Knicks need to pair KP/ Willy with hopefully a top 5 2017 pick. Trade Melo for whatever you can get. I really like Lee, but trade him for 2017 1st or future 1st. Don't sign any veterans- no Millsap/ Teague/ Holiday/ Hill.
Let the young team take its lumps in 2017. If they win then its a pleasant surprise and KP obviously makes a huge jump. If they lose big, they get another top pick. Then you truly have a young core you can build around and augment with FA signings after 2018.
The correct direction is so clear and I know they won't do it. They'll chase some veteran FAs and try to contend for the playoffs. The good thing is, Jackson has tried to do that 3 years now and failed miserably.
I think a top pick in 2018 is inevitable. Outside KP/Willy making big strides, the team will not get better.
Even if the Knicks do go after these FAs they will not be the only suitor offering them big money. Not even worried about who we *might* be going after, because we aren't going to get any of them.
But my point is don't half ass it. Do a full rebuild. You just know Jackson will be itching to give a monster contract to Holiday/ Hill or Teague. Just keep the cap clean and go after the top pick. Instead they'll make moves that make them just good enough to barely miss the playoffs. Follow the OKC model and hopefully get that 3rd foundation player. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think Phil has the patience to opt for another losing season. It's why I advocate firing him and bringing in a new GM. Someone who will commit to it and not try to do build/contend simultaneously like Phil has done.
There's going to be a time again when maybe a team gets another Jae Crowder for the 2015 equivalent of $6M a year (maybe $10-14M). It's cyclic.
I'm personally not big on any of those guys but those are the signings you make for a team in the Knicks position. Clark is intriguing, an undersized SG. I'd probably opt to keep Holiday if the price is similar tho.
This. I didnt mind Detroit's approach at all. I liked Drummond, Jackson, Harris, and picking Stanimal. However, Drummond just wont break out of being basically the same player he's always been, which isnt good enough to be the best player on a good team. Jackson got hurt. Stanimal didnt develop. Harris is what I think everyone figured he'd be, a solid starter. They didnt get lucky. If they did, they would be a UFA destination with a chance to do some damage in the coming years (honestly, no one in the East has a chance until LeBron slows down or a surprise super team forms).
Turns out, $12M would've still been quite the steal.
I know everyone reported that they don't expect an amnesty clause in the new CBA, but any chance it still gets included? Or is the CBA a done deal? Would be huge for the Noah contract.
The plan is to "compete" ASAP, until further notice. I'll buy a rebuild when a rebuild is announced.
Turns out, $12M would've still been quite the steal.
Why would the bubble, if it exists, pop this year? Cap is up, plenty of teams have needs and room. Crabbe is a much better comp than Crowder. Crowder was comming offer a trade and <8 point season. He took a bad deal, period, based on advanced stats.Also, there wasnt much of a market for RFAs until last season, realistically.
Who said that?
Just please don't win the last game against the 76ers.
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His numbers were cute when he was getting meaningless minutes. Not calling you out Dan, btw, but I think comparing him to KP is a bit premature and a disservice to how good KP is. I don't think he's anymore "raw" than KP was coming into the league. He's just a bit (or a lot) more behind from a basketball standpoint (and quite possibly older than KP too).
Not at all saying he's a scrub or will be a scrub, but when Jabari Parker says things like he will be the best 7 footer in the league, it sounds like a Lavar Ball comment. Still a great pick by the bucks, those are the types of picks if you nail consistently you'll end up with a contender sooner or later. I think he'all be a fine player, but he's still a few years away.
His numbers were cute when he was getting meaningless minutes. Not calling you out Dan, btw, but I think comparing him to KP is a bit premature and a disservice to how good KP is. I don't think he's anymore "raw" than KP was coming into the league. He's just a bit (or a lot) more behind from a basketball standpoint (and quite possibly older than KP too).
Not at all saying he's a scrub or will be a scrub, but when Jabari Parker says things like he will be the best 7 footer in the league, it sounds like a Lavar Ball comment. Still a great pick by the bucks, those are the types of picks if you nail consistently you'll end up with a contender sooner or later. I think he'all be a fine player, but he's still a few years away.
He hasn't played well but in his defense he was basically viewed as a MAJOR project with some skills. He only turned 20 in Feb. If we didn't pick top 3 I'd deal our pick for Maker (the Bucks almost certainly wouldn't).
Agree about this point. I thought it was a steal when it happened though. In fairness, the Hawks player development with Bud is far superior to what the Knicks have.
All reports were that the scouting staff didn't like Grant but Phil went on his own and picked him. That exact scenario scares the shit out of me for the coming draft. "Phil likes TJ Leaf at 7- perfect fit for the triangle." Or passing on Smith because he doesn't fit the triangle...
And I really don't believe he's just turned 20. Howard Beck was on Lowe's podcast after he wrote that article and said someone who he talked to who researched the HS's he went to and said he might be around 22-23. Not old by any means, but he's not like developing into his body.
IU was recruiting him heavily and before he made his decision to go the NBA it came down between ASU and IU and I was watching a lot of his stuff. He has a very thin frame, which will limit how much mass he can put on long term. I don't think he'll ever become an even average rebounder.
A lot of his deficiencies will not factor on the bucks. He won't have to create his shot as often (he has a nice handle for a big, but I don't think it's polished enough to be a major weapon in the NBA). Rebounding for him will be overlooked so long as GF is there.
And I really don't know the way the term "raw" is thrown around anymore. Just because he's not good at basketball but has nice physical tools makes him more "raw" and thus a higher ceiling compared to a guy like KP?
The issue with him in the draft was that he lacked in the fundamental areas bigs are required to have, even in the modern NBA. However he couldn't have fallen to a better team to cover his weaknesses. He'll be an impact player in Milwaukee.
Fultz
Ball
Jackson
Smith
Isaac
Markkanen
Tatum
Essentially I'd take Maker over Fox, Frenchy and Monk
Fantastic analysis. Why would every single draft board/mock draft article even have him in the top 7?
I think you are underrating his offense quite a bit. First, he's shooting 35% from 3, 51% from the field so the "doesn't do anything on offense well" stuff isn't really fair. Second his numbers are diminished because FSU runs 12 deep. He's extremely mobile (can even take the ball up the court as the point on the FB). Jonathan Tjarks absolutely loves him
"When he does get to create offense for others, he shows flashes of rare vision and passing ability for a guy his size. It’s almost impossible to stop an explosive 6-foot-10 athlete who can shoot and pass over the top of a defense:
It will be interesting to see if he becomes more aggressive on offense as he acclimates to the college schedule, especially once Florida State’s slate of games increases in difficulty in ACC play. The potential is there. In this sequence against Temple, Isaac uses a Eurostep to split a pick-and-roll and draw a foul:
What we’re seeing is still mostly potential at this point. Isaac is more a collection of interesting skills than a complete basketball player. While he usually makes the right decisions when he is on the floor, he doesn’t always execute them correctly. He can get loose with the ball in traffic, and creating shots against smaller and faster defenders who can get into his dribble might be difficult for him if he’s forced to play more as a wing SF at the next level"
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"At the age of 19, he has shown the ability to defend multiple positions, shoot the ball, put it on the floor, create for himself and others, rebound, and protect the rim. His skill set would allow him to fit on almost any team in the lottery, and a player with his combination of size, shooting ability, and athleticism makes for a useful NBA player, even if he never develops any further. Isaac has a high floor, and an even higher ceiling. He’s a 6-foot-10 player who can do everything on the basketball court well, and there aren’t many players like that at any level of the game. Jonathan Isaac is not being talked about a lot right now, but that will change soon enough."
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But in hindsight maybe we need to consider not quitting on young players too fast when we're not instantly gratified and try to have a longer view.
Agree about this point. I thought it was a steal when it happened though. In fairness, the Hawks player development with Bud is far superior to what the Knicks have.
All reports were that the scouting staff didn't like Grant but Phil went on his own and picked him. That exact scenario scares the shit out of me for the coming draft. "Phil likes TJ Leaf at 7- perfect fit for the triangle." Or passing on Smith because he doesn't fit the triangle...
not sure how you come to that conclusion, when grant was not your typical triangle point guard..
Did phil draft strictly for triangle last time he had picks? no so why would you be concerned now?
They did get Monroe when everyone thought it was a big deal that Monroe "spurned" the Knicks for a high upside team.
I don't really think they'd need to get a big time FA. Giannis can easily be a top 3 player in a few years, if not the premier player in the NBA.
I hype him up all the time, but Ill always think middleton is criminally underrated until he makes an all star team. There have been worse players that have made all star teams in recent years (yeah I realize the '15 Hawks makes that easy to say, so does Kobe in his final year). But also guys like wade and Melo who made it in recent years. He's not in the harden/derozan/Klay class of 2 guards but he's right behind with Beal and Bradley IMO.
I've taken isssue with all the dumb contracts they've been handing out but they seem convinced they'll have to build from within. Otherwise maybe they could get Dwayne wade to come for a year or two and play off the bench.
Hard to call him a chucker when he's shooting 36% from 3 and over 50% from 2.
He's not a defensive stopper by any means but I don't think he's the sieve people on this board think he is. He has great size for a 2 guard and plays with intensity.
Also Milsap wasn't an all star caliber player in Utah.
Teague was a fringe NBA player at the start of his career. Korver had his best years in Atlanta.
Maybe it's not player development, maybe it's the coaching that maximizes player success. But it's something.
Also double the assists, shooting more 3s. Not saying he was a scrub in Utah, but he played with some damn good players there and he's playing well as the lead dog in Atlanta. He shouldn't be a lead dog of a good team, but he's carrying a pretty average team to a top 4 seed. I didn't think he was that type of player in Utah.
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he is avegaing 18 and 8 this season in atlanta, how much better has atlanta made him?
Also double the assists, shooting more 3s. Not saying he was a scrub in Utah, but he played with some damn good players there and he's playing well as the lead dog in Atlanta. He shouldn't be a lead dog of a good team, but he's carrying a pretty average team to a top 4 seed. I didn't think he was that type of player in Utah.
agreed on the part he is shooting more 3s but i think that is more the offense they run, he is a face up big, never developed the post up game..
utah he scored more on his hustle and pick snd roll but he was still a very good player