but i dont view thebhawks as this team that just develops players, sorry i dont
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Again, where was this superstar that was in Atlanta that the Hawks failed to capitalize on? There hasn't been one player on the Hawks sine Wilkins that even sniffs the pedigree of the guys the Spurs and warriors had.
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
If the Knicks got Bud? I would be very happy. I love the way they play. Under him they have made the conf finals, the semi conf finals, and lost in 7 games in the 1st round as a 8th seed.
The Knicks have been under 500 13 of the last 16 seasons. They are an absymal franchise, so yes I would be happy. I would love to win a title but it wouldn't be bad to make the playoffs every year and actually be good and fun to watch.
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
I really have no idea where you are going with this. How is that relevant at all? Bud inherited a team with good players (but not superstars) and won 60 games with them 2 years later.
What does being stuck with a team with average talent have remotely anything to do with player development?
because he said the hawks are a much better run organization than the knicks, fine...
so i asked him if the knicks became the hawks are you then happy with the job phil did? so if this knicks team got the 5th seed and then they brought everyone back and got the 5th seed every year and won 1 round, are you happy?
my point being if you think the hawks are such a great well run organization then you must be happy with that
With JT III being canned by Georgetown today, how awesome would it be for Ewing to get that job? Imagine if both Ewing and Mullin could turn their respective schools back into winners.....those matchups could be great.
Dont think the Jesuits can hire after the Gold Club trial.
RE: RE: hawks have a great head coach that gets the moat out of his players Â
but i dont view thebhawks as this team that just develops players, sorry i dont
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Again, where was this superstar that was in Atlanta that the Hawks failed to capitalize on? There hasn't been one player on the Hawks sine Wilkins that even sniffs the pedigree of the guys the Spurs and warriors had.
so the warriors didnt develop curry thompson or green who was a second round pick for that matter?
the spurs didnt develop leonard who was a mid round pick or parker or ginobli who were 2md round picks?
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
If the Knicks got Bud? I would be very happy. I love the way they play. Under him they have made the conf finals, the semi conf finals, and lost in 7 games in the 1st round as a 8th seed.
The Knicks have been under 500 13 of the last 16 seasons. They are an absymal franchise, so yes I would be happy. I would love to win a title but it wouldn't be bad to make the playoffs every year and actually be good and fun to watch.
you would? how is that fun to watch knowing your team will never sniff a championship? and really have no avenue to get there
Certainly is a big downside. But comparatively he's like what, 1 year older than josh Jackson?
His WS/48 is about the same as KPs and he's the same age.
There are key differences. KP hasnt made his leap yet, like ZL did this year. Everyone's got that leap in them. KP has a year less on him. KP doesnt currently have a major knee injury. And he's just a different prospect -- still physically not remotely done, YOU HOPE. A unicorn shooter/rim protector. I just think there is a lot more projectability on KP. I.e. I can tell myself a story that he's going to get a lot better and be an unstoppable volume shooter who murders defenses. ZL it's a different story. Still a good one.
But in any event, if we were a year out of giving KP 40 million/per and this is what he was after THREE seasons, I wouldnt be doing backflips. I'd be worried
Why is a 21 year old permitted only one "leap"? Everyone thought GF made his "leap" until this year came along. He made a second one. Same thing with Davis.
Here for a better position comp. what about derozan? He made his "leap" year 2 and then stagnated, until he was 24 he made his second "leap" and became an all star.
And then comes this year and he's on another level, a third mini-leap so to speak. A top 3 SG. From a physical perspective, what does derozan have that Lavine doesn't? 2 inches? I think lavine more than makes up for it as a crazy 3 point shooter and a pretty good passer for a 2 guard. I can easily see lavine as an all star one day if he was in the EC (maybe west too, he has more talent than say, Gordon Hayward, who made it).
I guess if you're really concerned about the knee injury, but he's not the only player to have torn his acl before. I don't think it's jabari Parker bad, who had injury issues even before his first tear. I'd be worried if we were trading the pick for Parker, lavines seems more of a freak thing.
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
If the Knicks got Bud? I would be very happy. I love the way they play. Under him they have made the conf finals, the semi conf finals, and lost in 7 games in the 1st round as a 8th seed.
The Knicks have been under 500 13 of the last 16 seasons. They are an absymal franchise, so yes I would be happy. I would love to win a title but it wouldn't be bad to make the playoffs every year and actually be good and fun to watch.
you would? how is that fun to watch knowing your team will never sniff a championship? and really have no avenue to get there
Over the garbage they are currently producing? Yes it would be fun. You keep building off success and hopefully you catch lighting in the bottle like the Mavs did. Bud is a great coach who I would love to have for the Knicks. This is only his 4th year with the team. Give him time.
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
If the Knicks got Bud? I would be very happy. I love the way they play. Under him they have made the conf finals, the semi conf finals, and lost in 7 games in the 1st round as a 8th seed.
The Knicks have been under 500 13 of the last 16 seasons. They are an absymal franchise, so yes I would be happy. I would love to win a title but it wouldn't be bad to make the playoffs every year and actually be good and fun to watch.
you would? how is that fun to watch knowing your team will never sniff a championship? and really have no avenue to get there
You never know, maybe Lebron will decide to play baseball for a year or 2 and you'll sneak into the finals!
With JT III being canned by Georgetown today, how awesome would it be for Ewing to get that job? Imagine if both Ewing and Mullin could turn their respective schools back into winners.....those matchups could be great.
I'd love to see that. He has paid his dues as an assistant. I think that Georgetown could become a powerhouse again. In a hotbed for talent, a great school in the middle of the city with no football power, and a great tradition.
1. Considering just *how* toxic this roster and its "leadership" is (Melo and Rose, the latter being one of my least favorite Knicks of all time), I think KP making material progress at all this season should be encouraging.
2. Conditional on KP still having franchise player upside (and I still he does), we should be optimistic about this draft. While it seems to lack generational type talents (few drafts ever do have one), it is very, very deep in players with genuine All-Star potential. If we keep losing, we're gonna have a shot at one.
RE: RE: RE: hawks have a great head coach that gets the moat out of his players Â
but i dont view thebhawks as this team that just develops players, sorry i dont
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Again, where was this superstar that was in Atlanta that the Hawks failed to capitalize on? There hasn't been one player on the Hawks sine Wilkins that even sniffs the pedigree of the guys the Spurs and warriors had.
so the warriors didnt develop curry thompson or green who was a second round pick for that matter?
the spurs didnt develop leonard who was a mid round pick or parker or ginobli who were 2md round picks?
Talent trumps everything. Didn't say they weren't developed. I'm just saying shit needs to change with the Knicks.
Like say if Jimmy Butler was in SA instead of Kawhi. Do you think they'd be much worse, if at all?
I'm confident with the way things are going KP will be an all star. But I don't want his ceiling to stop at say, Kevin love. I want him to become like Dirk (I know, selfish me). Things need to change to foster that type of development. That comes from a coaching standpoint, a roster standpoint, the entire organization. That's the overall point I wanted to make.
Isaac, Tatum, smith or Jackson to trade for lavine, but if we're looking at Monk, fox, frenchy I 100% would do it. Markannen is the gray area, I probably would do to positional fit.
more than implied the other day that the locker room/chemistry was not good.
1. He's known to have a strong relationship with Melo so I doubt it's aimed at him (not that Melo is such an amazing leader).
2. For all of these "high quality pros" they brought in (Noah, Lee, Lance Thomas (already here), Sasha (already here) pretty clearly something is off. You can assume he doesn't mean Baker/Kuz/Willy. So if you come back with much of the same team I'd expect very similar results.
more than implied the other day that the locker room/chemistry was not good.
1. He's known to have a strong relationship with Melo so I doubt it's aimed at him (not that Melo is such an amazing leader).
2. For all of these "high quality pros" they brought in (Noah, Lee, Lance Thomas (already here), Sasha (already here) pretty clearly something is off. You can assume he doesn't mean Baker/Kuz/Willy. So if you come back with much of the same team I'd expect very similar results.
This is just based off quotes and on court body language, but it seems like KP's relationship is different with Melo this year. I think he may be tired of playing with him. Who knows though but it seems different this year. Isn't as effusive with his praise of Melo.
Hitdog still rambling on with his "culture" obsession. Wtf, man. Get a grip. Every freaking NBA thread has to have at least one hitdog post on culture. Ok, we get it. The Nets are the culture front runners of the NBA and every single player wants to play for them because of that awesome culture. Can you move on now and find another weird ass thing to obsess about?
you my friend are a stalker- quite strange.
The Nets fan that shows up on Knicks threads everyday to randomly pick a spot to throw around his "culture" post of the day is calling someone else "quite strange", lol. Classic.
#netsculturerocks
RE: RE: RE: Lavine being a year from getting paid Â
Certainly is a big downside. But comparatively he's like what, 1 year older than josh Jackson?
His WS/48 is about the same as KPs and he's the same age.
There are key differences. KP hasnt made his leap yet, like ZL did this year. Everyone's got that leap in them. KP has a year less on him. KP doesnt currently have a major knee injury. And he's just a different prospect -- still physically not remotely done, YOU HOPE. A unicorn shooter/rim protector. I just think there is a lot more projectability on KP. I.e. I can tell myself a story that he's going to get a lot better and be an unstoppable volume shooter who murders defenses. ZL it's a different story. Still a good one.
But in any event, if we were a year out of giving KP 40 million/per and this is what he was after THREE seasons, I wouldnt be doing backflips. I'd be worried
Why is a 21 year old permitted only one "leap"? Everyone thought GF made his "leap" until this year came along. He made a second one. Same thing with Davis.
Here for a better position comp. what about derozan? He made his "leap" year 2 and then stagnated, until he was 24 he made his second "leap" and became an all star.
And then comes this year and he's on another level, a third mini-leap so to speak. A top 3 SG. From a physical perspective, what does derozan have that Lavine doesn't? 2 inches? I think lavine more than makes up for it as a crazy 3 point shooter and a pretty good passer for a 2 guard. I can easily see lavine as an all star one day if he was in the EC (maybe west too, he has more talent than say, Gordon Hayward, who made it).
I guess if you're really concerned about the knee injury, but he's not the only player to have torn his acl before. I don't think it's jabari Parker bad, who had injury issues even before his first tear. I'd be worried if we were trading the pick for Parker, lavines seems more of a freak thing.
Anthony Davis made one leap really, in year 2. Got better year 3 but I dont think it was a leap. I dont think Derozan made a leap in year 2. I think he got more minutes. He did make a leap at age 24.
Giannis is a freak. A rarity. I wouldnt bet on Lavine being Giannis, or anyone making two significant leaps. Just my rule of thumb. I think you can argue that Lavine did NOT make a leap yet though. I think his game smartened up. But yeah, maybe next season is the leap year and he becomes a 21 PER player.
I still wouldnt move our pick for him. I want my balls in play for the top 2 PGs, given that the fallback is guys I like on better contracts. Thought they can bust. If Melo was 26 instead of old, and we had KP and Willy, I'd say it was right to go for Lavine and make a go of it.
I happened to catch a segment where KP was mic'd up Â
during a recent game, and was blown away by the way he coaches the other young guys on the team. He was out there with guys like Plumlee and Baker and was teaching them little tricks to get better shots in the offense. He is going to blossom into a real leader once Melo and Rose are shown the door. Looking forward to that.
I'm not worried about the contract because who exactly will the Knicks pay big bucks to besides their own guys over the foreseeable future.
Like if something like that was on the table and we took monk I'd be pissed. Like what is monk except Lavine but 3 inches shorter? There's enough risk with fox where I'd take the salary/knee risk on lavine over a PG with spacing issues.
Wolves would do it to get more complimentary pieces around Wiggins/towns, who will also be getting paid pretty soon too.
You draft like Markannen and bridges next to Wiggins and towns and you're onto something big there. Lavine/Wiggins doesn't seem like it would work out.
and Rose have to go in order for us to move forward. As much as I rail against Joakim Noah at least the guy has a very strong rep as a teammate/worker. The deal will still suck but we need new leadership. I don't see any way I'm enthused for next season with Melo still here. I'll watch of course, and the high pick will be fun to watch but if Melo is here we will be "dreaming" about 7-8 seeds vs. dreaming of being "really good" 2 years from now.
more than implied the other day that the locker room/chemistry was not good.
1. He's known to have a strong relationship with Melo so I doubt it's aimed at him (not that Melo is such an amazing leader).
2. For all of these "high quality pros" they brought in (Noah, Lee, Lance Thomas (already here), Sasha (already here) pretty clearly something is off. You can assume he doesn't mean Baker/Kuz/Willy. So if you come back with much of the same team I'd expect very similar results.
Re 1.: I think Melo is probably a good guy, which is why he seems well liked around the league. He's also not a good leader. His lack of defensive effort is a leadership failure. I dont think good guy and star must mean you're a leader. Melo seems cut out to be a member of a super team, and not the big dog.
Re 2.: Not in the room, but I cant say. Losing can be toxic but it doesnt get this bad most places. Things really, really seemed to fall apart when Noah went down. I suspect you cant do much leading in street clothes. But Rose seems like a doosh, Jackson is fucking with the team, and Hornacek appears to be pissing off the players (could be him, or trying to be a triangle guy).
I'd say Strahan was a good example of #1 for most of his career. He was always popular with his teammates but wasn't much of a leader until the end of his career. On those very good Fox-led defenses, Armstead was the leader, not Strahan.
Asked if he would change his thought if selected by the Nets or Knicks in the NBA Draft, Hayes said, “You’d have no choice. Something you have to live with.”
RE: I happened to catch a segment where KP was mic'd up Â
during a recent game, and was blown away by the way he coaches the other young guys on the team. He was out there with guys like Plumlee and Baker and was teaching them little tricks to get better shots in the offense. He is going to blossom into a real leader once Melo and Rose are shown the door. Looking forward to that.
Love to hear that, thanks for sharing.
All accounts are that Hornacek yells at KP but refuses to get on Rose or Melo. Guys notice that and probably lose a lot of respect for Hornacek. On top of that, they see him doing a 180 on the offense with the triangle and are probably confused and think less of Hornacek.
I hate to say it, but the more Hornacek coaches, the more his one successful year looks like an outlier. They are some horror stories from Phoenix with the team essentially quitting on him and it appears the same has happened this year.
It won't happen unfortunately, but I would love a clean start next year from Jackson, Hornacek, Melo, and Rose. Bring in a competent experienced GM who brings his own coach. I sure as well would be excited.
Asked if he would change his thought if selected by the Nets or Knicks in the NBA Draft, Hayes said, “You’d have no choice. Something you have to live with.”
Everyone likes Melo, nobody wants to play with him. Melo will be great on a super team as long as there are 3 players better than him and the best player is Lebron. Other than that, he won't win a thing.
Everyone likes Melo, nobody wants to play with him. Melo will be great on a super team as long as there are 3 players better than him and the best player is Lebron. Other than that, he won't win a thing.
Asked if he would change his thought if selected by the Nets or Knicks in the NBA Draft, Hayes said, “You’d have no choice. Something you have to live with.”
just like Houston and Mills staying on was the first red flag for Phil Jackson. Hornacek will coach the old "four corners" offense at this point if it means saving his job. Next head coaching job for him is in college, and he knows it.
Everyone likes Melo, nobody wants to play with him. Melo will be great on a super team as long as there are 3 players better than him and the best player is Lebron. Other than that, he won't win a thing.
SANTA MONICA, Calif. — Kristaps Porzingis was the first to see something and say something when he expressed that despite the Knicks’ early-season success, something was missing. The second-year big man proved to have great foresight.
“I think it was pretty easy to tell from the inside that we’re not that good of a team,” Porzingis said after Sunday’s practice. “We can win games based off of our talent, but that’s not going to last long, and that’s exactly what happened.”
With Carmelo Anthony, Rose and Porzingis, the Knicks thought they could be one of the top teams in the East and be able to make some noise in the playoffs. But Rose lamented that they never developed chemistry. “We didn’t click,” he said. “We didn’t have that connection that we wanted throughout the season. You need that to go far in this league.”
Asked if he would change his thought if selected by the Nets or Knicks in the NBA Draft, Hayes said, “You’d have no choice. Something you have to live with.”
Thought on what?
Trashed NYC. Called it dirty, loud etc
A kid from Ohio saying that about NYC? Doesn't surprise me.
To be honest I grew up in the area and I sometimes feel that way about NY.
But at the same time, I can see why an NBA star living in the city might have a little bit of a different experience than me lol.
Asked if he would change his thought if selected by the Nets or Knicks in the NBA Draft, Hayes said, “You’d have no choice. Something you have to live with.”
you read KP's previous comments...
"We should’ve been playing it from the beginning of the season,’’ Porzingis said. “We’re a little behind. I don’t know when we can finally start using it properly and making an impact.
“The whole first season we played nothing but the triangle. I know it pretty well. I like the offense. It can only work if everyone believes in it and everyone executes it the right way. We’re starting to learn it the way we should.’’"
It's clear they weren't on the same page. He's too classy to call guys out.
But if we are talking about upside (as I hope the Knicks are doing) it's right up there with the top 3 guys. The flags are the only things keeping him apart, and there are reasons to talk yourself/into and out of him if you so want to.
I would love to have Smith. I think all things considered- coming off ACL tear, coach being fired, he had a pretty good year. I think it could be one of those situations where he is a steal in the 5-7 range.
That scouting report felt a little nitpicky to me. Most college freshman struggle defensively. The mechanics of his shot look fine to me- especially compared to Fox. I could see him being an all star point guard. Good size for the position, can finish in traffic, looks to get others involved, and has a good jumper. I would love him for the Knicks but not sure "he fits the triangle".
He's not a PnR guy right now but I think he has the skillet to be a great one. I think it's criminal if we dont try to be a PnR team with KP and Willy here.
That's why the triangle makes me so sad. It's not the best offense for what we have.
In any event, hat tip to hitdog, whatever we do has me worried because the culture seems rotten to the core. Take Rose and Melo off the team and you still have shitbag Dolan doing whatever he does to make the Knicks a team loathed by media and fans who come near it, and a turnstile for coaches and executives. You still have Jackson tweeting and undermining his coaches. It's tough to get excited.
Courtney Lee has an opinion as to why the Knicks defense sucks... they practice against the triangle... the offense nobody else exclusively runs. Makes sense to me Phil!
Wow - I might actually tune in, then. I don't hate Lance Thomas, but it's hard not to laugh when he thinks he can hit a floater or put a move on someone.
but i dont view thebhawks as this team that just develops players, sorry i dont
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Again, where was this superstar that was in Atlanta that the Hawks failed to capitalize on? There hasn't been one player on the Hawks sine Wilkins that even sniffs the pedigree of the guys the Spurs and warriors had.
If the Knicks got Bud? I would be very happy. I love the way they play. Under him they have made the conf finals, the semi conf finals, and lost in 7 games in the 1st round as a 8th seed.
The Knicks have been under 500 13 of the last 16 seasons. They are an absymal franchise, so yes I would be happy. I would love to win a title but it wouldn't be bad to make the playoffs every year and actually be good and fun to watch.
Quote:
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
I really have no idea where you are going with this. How is that relevant at all? Bud inherited a team with good players (but not superstars) and won 60 games with them 2 years later.
What does being stuck with a team with average talent have remotely anything to do with player development?
because he said the hawks are a much better run organization than the knicks, fine...
so i asked him if the knicks became the hawks are you then happy with the job phil did? so if this knicks team got the 5th seed and then they brought everyone back and got the 5th seed every year and won 1 round, are you happy?
my point being if you think the hawks are such a great well run organization then you must be happy with that
Dont think the Jesuits can hire after the Gold Club trial.
Quote:
that is how i view the hawks...
but i dont view thebhawks as this team that just develops players, sorry i dont
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Again, where was this superstar that was in Atlanta that the Hawks failed to capitalize on? There hasn't been one player on the Hawks sine Wilkins that even sniffs the pedigree of the guys the Spurs and warriors had.
so the warriors didnt develop curry thompson or green who was a second round pick for that matter?
the spurs didnt develop leonard who was a mid round pick or parker or ginobli who were 2md round picks?
Quote:
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
If the Knicks got Bud? I would be very happy. I love the way they play. Under him they have made the conf finals, the semi conf finals, and lost in 7 games in the 1st round as a 8th seed.
The Knicks have been under 500 13 of the last 16 seasons. They are an absymal franchise, so yes I would be happy. I would love to win a title but it wouldn't be bad to make the playoffs every year and actually be good and fun to watch.
you would? how is that fun to watch knowing your team will never sniff a championship? and really have no avenue to get there
Quote:
Certainly is a big downside. But comparatively he's like what, 1 year older than josh Jackson?
His WS/48 is about the same as KPs and he's the same age.
There are key differences. KP hasnt made his leap yet, like ZL did this year. Everyone's got that leap in them. KP has a year less on him. KP doesnt currently have a major knee injury. And he's just a different prospect -- still physically not remotely done, YOU HOPE. A unicorn shooter/rim protector. I just think there is a lot more projectability on KP. I.e. I can tell myself a story that he's going to get a lot better and be an unstoppable volume shooter who murders defenses. ZL it's a different story. Still a good one.
But in any event, if we were a year out of giving KP 40 million/per and this is what he was after THREE seasons, I wouldnt be doing backflips. I'd be worried
Why is a 21 year old permitted only one "leap"? Everyone thought GF made his "leap" until this year came along. He made a second one. Same thing with Davis.
Here for a better position comp. what about derozan? He made his "leap" year 2 and then stagnated, until he was 24 he made his second "leap" and became an all star.
And then comes this year and he's on another level, a third mini-leap so to speak. A top 3 SG. From a physical perspective, what does derozan have that Lavine doesn't? 2 inches? I think lavine more than makes up for it as a crazy 3 point shooter and a pretty good passer for a 2 guard. I can easily see lavine as an all star one day if he was in the EC (maybe west too, he has more talent than say, Gordon Hayward, who made it).
I guess if you're really concerned about the knee injury, but he's not the only player to have torn his acl before. I don't think it's jabari Parker bad, who had injury issues even before his first tear. I'd be worried if we were trading the pick for Parker, lavines seems more of a freak thing.
Quote:
In comment 13404219 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
If the Knicks got Bud? I would be very happy. I love the way they play. Under him they have made the conf finals, the semi conf finals, and lost in 7 games in the 1st round as a 8th seed.
The Knicks have been under 500 13 of the last 16 seasons. They are an absymal franchise, so yes I would be happy. I would love to win a title but it wouldn't be bad to make the playoffs every year and actually be good and fun to watch.
you would? how is that fun to watch knowing your team will never sniff a championship? and really have no avenue to get there
Over the garbage they are currently producing? Yes it would be fun. You keep building off success and hopefully you catch lighting in the bottle like the Mavs did. Bud is a great coach who I would love to have for the Knicks. This is only his 4th year with the team. Give him time.
Quote:
In comment 13404219 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
if the knicks became the hawks and were the 4th or 5th see every year and only winning a round evry year you going to be happy?
If the Knicks got Bud? I would be very happy. I love the way they play. Under him they have made the conf finals, the semi conf finals, and lost in 7 games in the 1st round as a 8th seed.
The Knicks have been under 500 13 of the last 16 seasons. They are an absymal franchise, so yes I would be happy. I would love to win a title but it wouldn't be bad to make the playoffs every year and actually be good and fun to watch.
you would? how is that fun to watch knowing your team will never sniff a championship? and really have no avenue to get there
You never know, maybe Lebron will decide to play baseball for a year or 2 and you'll sneak into the finals!
I'd love to see that. He has paid his dues as an assistant. I think that Georgetown could become a powerhouse again. In a hotbed for talent, a great school in the middle of the city with no football power, and a great tradition.
2. Conditional on KP still having franchise player upside (and I still he does), we should be optimistic about this draft. While it seems to lack generational type talents (few drafts ever do have one), it is very, very deep in players with genuine All-Star potential. If we keep losing, we're gonna have a shot at one.
Quote:
In comment 13404232 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
that is how i view the hawks...
but i dont view thebhawks as this team that just develops players, sorry i dont
Those things aren't mutually exclusive.
Again, where was this superstar that was in Atlanta that the Hawks failed to capitalize on? There hasn't been one player on the Hawks sine Wilkins that even sniffs the pedigree of the guys the Spurs and warriors had.
so the warriors didnt develop curry thompson or green who was a second round pick for that matter?
the spurs didnt develop leonard who was a mid round pick or parker or ginobli who were 2md round picks?
Talent trumps everything. Didn't say they weren't developed. I'm just saying shit needs to change with the Knicks.
Like say if Jimmy Butler was in SA instead of Kawhi. Do you think they'd be much worse, if at all?
I'm confident with the way things are going KP will be an all star. But I don't want his ceiling to stop at say, Kevin love. I want him to become like Dirk (I know, selfish me). Things need to change to foster that type of development. That comes from a coaching standpoint, a roster standpoint, the entire organization. That's the overall point I wanted to make.
Link - ( New Window )
1. He's known to have a strong relationship with Melo so I doubt it's aimed at him (not that Melo is such an amazing leader).
2. For all of these "high quality pros" they brought in (Noah, Lee, Lance Thomas (already here), Sasha (already here) pretty clearly something is off. You can assume he doesn't mean Baker/Kuz/Willy. So if you come back with much of the same team I'd expect very similar results.
Exactly, so I don't know how someone can be confident that the Knicks are any closer to the Spurs than the bulls.
1. He's known to have a strong relationship with Melo so I doubt it's aimed at him (not that Melo is such an amazing leader).
2. For all of these "high quality pros" they brought in (Noah, Lee, Lance Thomas (already here), Sasha (already here) pretty clearly something is off. You can assume he doesn't mean Baker/Kuz/Willy. So if you come back with much of the same team I'd expect very similar results.
This is just based off quotes and on court body language, but it seems like KP's relationship is different with Melo this year. I think he may be tired of playing with him. Who knows though but it seems different this year. Isn't as effusive with his praise of Melo.
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Hitdog still rambling on with his "culture" obsession. Wtf, man. Get a grip. Every freaking NBA thread has to have at least one hitdog post on culture. Ok, we get it. The Nets are the culture front runners of the NBA and every single player wants to play for them because of that awesome culture. Can you move on now and find another weird ass thing to obsess about?
you my friend are a stalker- quite strange.
The Nets fan that shows up on Knicks threads everyday to randomly pick a spot to throw around his "culture" post of the day is calling someone else "quite strange", lol. Classic.
#netsculturerocks
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In comment 13404209 giantsfan44ab said:
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Certainly is a big downside. But comparatively he's like what, 1 year older than josh Jackson?
His WS/48 is about the same as KPs and he's the same age.
There are key differences. KP hasnt made his leap yet, like ZL did this year. Everyone's got that leap in them. KP has a year less on him. KP doesnt currently have a major knee injury. And he's just a different prospect -- still physically not remotely done, YOU HOPE. A unicorn shooter/rim protector. I just think there is a lot more projectability on KP. I.e. I can tell myself a story that he's going to get a lot better and be an unstoppable volume shooter who murders defenses. ZL it's a different story. Still a good one.
But in any event, if we were a year out of giving KP 40 million/per and this is what he was after THREE seasons, I wouldnt be doing backflips. I'd be worried
Why is a 21 year old permitted only one "leap"? Everyone thought GF made his "leap" until this year came along. He made a second one. Same thing with Davis.
Here for a better position comp. what about derozan? He made his "leap" year 2 and then stagnated, until he was 24 he made his second "leap" and became an all star.
And then comes this year and he's on another level, a third mini-leap so to speak. A top 3 SG. From a physical perspective, what does derozan have that Lavine doesn't? 2 inches? I think lavine more than makes up for it as a crazy 3 point shooter and a pretty good passer for a 2 guard. I can easily see lavine as an all star one day if he was in the EC (maybe west too, he has more talent than say, Gordon Hayward, who made it).
I guess if you're really concerned about the knee injury, but he's not the only player to have torn his acl before. I don't think it's jabari Parker bad, who had injury issues even before his first tear. I'd be worried if we were trading the pick for Parker, lavines seems more of a freak thing.
Anthony Davis made one leap really, in year 2. Got better year 3 but I dont think it was a leap. I dont think Derozan made a leap in year 2. I think he got more minutes. He did make a leap at age 24.
Giannis is a freak. A rarity. I wouldnt bet on Lavine being Giannis, or anyone making two significant leaps. Just my rule of thumb. I think you can argue that Lavine did NOT make a leap yet though. I think his game smartened up. But yeah, maybe next season is the leap year and he becomes a 21 PER player.
I still wouldnt move our pick for him. I want my balls in play for the top 2 PGs, given that the fallback is guys I like on better contracts. Thought they can bust. If Melo was 26 instead of old, and we had KP and Willy, I'd say it was right to go for Lavine and make a go of it.
Like if something like that was on the table and we took monk I'd be pissed. Like what is monk except Lavine but 3 inches shorter? There's enough risk with fox where I'd take the salary/knee risk on lavine over a PG with spacing issues.
Wolves would do it to get more complimentary pieces around Wiggins/towns, who will also be getting paid pretty soon too.
You draft like Markannen and bridges next to Wiggins and towns and you're onto something big there. Lavine/Wiggins doesn't seem like it would work out.
1. He's known to have a strong relationship with Melo so I doubt it's aimed at him (not that Melo is such an amazing leader).
2. For all of these "high quality pros" they brought in (Noah, Lee, Lance Thomas (already here), Sasha (already here) pretty clearly something is off. You can assume he doesn't mean Baker/Kuz/Willy. So if you come back with much of the same team I'd expect very similar results.
Re 1.: I think Melo is probably a good guy, which is why he seems well liked around the league. He's also not a good leader. His lack of defensive effort is a leadership failure. I dont think good guy and star must mean you're a leader. Melo seems cut out to be a member of a super team, and not the big dog.
Re 2.: Not in the room, but I cant say. Losing can be toxic but it doesnt get this bad most places. Things really, really seemed to fall apart when Noah went down. I suspect you cant do much leading in street clothes. But Rose seems like a doosh, Jackson is fucking with the team, and Hornacek appears to be pissing off the players (could be him, or trying to be a triangle guy).
Love to hear that, thanks for sharing.
All accounts are that Hornacek yells at KP but refuses to get on Rose or Melo. Guys notice that and probably lose a lot of respect for Hornacek. On top of that, they see him doing a 180 on the offense with the triangle and are probably confused and think less of Hornacek.
I hate to say it, but the more Hornacek coaches, the more his one successful year looks like an outlier. They are some horror stories from Phoenix with the team essentially quitting on him and it appears the same has happened this year.
It won't happen unfortunately, but I would love a clean start next year from Jackson, Hornacek, Melo, and Rose. Bring in a competent experienced GM who brings his own coach. I sure as well would be excited.
Thought on what?
Everyone likes Melo, nobody wants to play with him. Melo will be great on a super team as long as there are 3 players better than him and the best player is Lebron. Other than that, he won't win a thing.
Everyone likes Melo, nobody wants to play with him. Melo will be great on a super team as long as there are 3 players better than him and the best player is Lebron. Other than that, he won't win a thing.
Damn not even gonna give him the Warriors?
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Asked if he would change his thought if selected by the Nets or Knicks in the NBA Draft, Hayes said, “You’d have no choice. Something you have to live with.”
Thought on what?
Trashed NYC. Called it dirty, loud etc
Link - ( New Window )
Everyone likes Melo, nobody wants to play with him. Melo will be great on a super team as long as there are 3 players better than him and the best player is Lebron. Other than that, he won't win a thing.
SANTA MONICA, Calif. — Kristaps Porzingis was the first to see something and say something when he expressed that despite the Knicks’ early-season success, something was missing. The second-year big man proved to have great foresight.
“I think it was pretty easy to tell from the inside that we’re not that good of a team,” Porzingis said after Sunday’s practice. “We can win games based off of our talent, but that’s not going to last long, and that’s exactly what happened.”
With Carmelo Anthony, Rose and Porzingis, the Knicks thought they could be one of the top teams in the East and be able to make some noise in the playoffs. But Rose lamented that they never developed chemistry. “We didn’t click,” he said. “We didn’t have that connection that we wanted throughout the season. You need that to go far in this league.”
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would be a mich better player if he was drafted the spurs
Exactly, so I don't know how someone can be confident that the Knicks are any closer to the Spurs than the bulls.
i never said the knicks were closer to the spurs
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In comment 13404301 DanMetroMan said:
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Asked if he would change his thought if selected by the Nets or Knicks in the NBA Draft, Hayes said, “You’d have no choice. Something you have to live with.”
Thought on what?
Trashed NYC. Called it dirty, loud etc
A kid from Ohio saying that about NYC? Doesn't surprise me.
To be honest I grew up in the area and I sometimes feel that way about NY.
But at the same time, I can see why an NBA star living in the city might have a little bit of a different experience than me lol.
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In comment 13404301 DanMetroMan said:
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Asked if he would change his thought if selected by the Nets or Knicks in the NBA Draft, Hayes said, “You’d have no choice. Something you have to live with.”
Thought on what?
Trashed NYC. Called it dirty, loud etc
so he hates nyc not necassarily the knicks
"We should’ve been playing it from the beginning of the season,’’ Porzingis said. “We’re a little behind. I don’t know when we can finally start using it properly and making an impact.
“The whole first season we played nothing but the triangle. I know it pretty well. I like the offense. It can only work if everyone believes in it and everyone executes it the right way. We’re starting to learn it the way we should.’’"
It's clear they weren't on the same page. He's too classy to call guys out.
That scouting report felt a little nitpicky to me. Most college freshman struggle defensively. The mechanics of his shot look fine to me- especially compared to Fox. I could see him being an all star point guard. Good size for the position, can finish in traffic, looks to get others involved, and has a good jumper. I would love him for the Knicks but not sure "he fits the triangle".
That's why the triangle makes me so sad. It's not the best offense for what we have.
In any event, hat tip to hitdog, whatever we do has me worried because the culture seems rotten to the core. Take Rose and Melo off the team and you still have shitbag Dolan doing whatever he does to make the Knicks a team loathed by media and fans who come near it, and a turnstile for coaches and executives. You still have Jackson tweeting and undermining his coaches. It's tough to get excited.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC9N6VZXkTY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di-UuCz5vXI
Wow - I might actually tune in, then. I don't hate Lance Thomas, but it's hard not to laugh when he thinks he can hit a floater or put a move on someone.
Shit...so they could possibly win the game now. Not good.