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What are the chances Hankins holds out....

Ray_Ray (NYG) : 3/23/2017 3:49 pm
until after the draft has settled? Perhaps his agent thinks that if a team does not feel a need at DT, they may come calling? I don't know what do you guys think?
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RE: My memory's not what it used so be  
Klaatu : 3/23/2017 5:27 pm : link
In comment 13404398 ErichBarnes102 said:
Quote:
Who was the last DT the Giants drafted that started as a rookie? I seem to recall mostly Free agents coming in and starting.


Barry Cofield, 4th round, 2006. Started from Day One.
Like Selling a House  
Samiam : 3/23/2017 5:28 pm : link
Sometimes s house is priced way too high relative to its true worth. The owner or agent doesn't understand the market or the true value of the house. Once time goes by and there no interest, or no interest close to the asking price, buyers start thinking there's something wrong with it.

From what I've read, he hasn't visited any teams and the Dolphins offered him a 1 year $4 m show me contract to be a backup. If that's the case, I'm wondering if Reese either didn't offer anything or more likely dropped the offer which was rumored to be in the $7 m range years unknown. Hankins may be really pissed they asked for $10-12 m and having trouble dealing with his true value . Or, as mentioned above, his agent really screwed the pooch
RE: Value Goes Down  
giantgiantfan : 3/23/2017 5:31 pm : link
In comment 13404272 Samiam said:
Quote:
After the draft IMO


Unless a team suffers training camp or preseason injury, but what player is gonna roll them dice?
Looks like DEAL agency, CEO Kevin Poston, represents him.  
yatqb : 3/23/2017 5:33 pm : link
Is that right, Limerick guy?
I believe it's better for Hankins  
mrvax : 3/23/2017 5:37 pm : link
to sign before the draft. The Giants usually run with 1 very good DT and several mid-tier players going back several years.

Snacks is the big man now at DT, Hank is 2nd fiddle. He can be replaced for less w/o much of a drop off.

Teams may fill their long term needs for DTs with day 2 picks. Why pay a fairly average run stuffer so much $ when there are other, cheaper options.

Supply & demand.
It's hard to analyze his situation w/o knowing the teams and offers.  
robbieballs2003 : 3/23/2017 6:05 pm : link
If they are all 1 year deals then I would believe that the Giants would be the best situation for him because he knows the system, city, coaches, management, opponents, etc. He can just focus on football. He is surrounded by arguably the best DL in football and arguably the best secondary too. He will have more than enough opportunities to do his thing. The only downside I see is if he has a big year but teams feel it was only because of who he was surrounded by rather than what he was able to do personally.

If he goes to a different team there is way more risk but one the slight chance he dominates with lesser talent around him increasing his value. But there is a good chance his is just the same and when you factor in learning a new scheme, learning how to play with your teammates, learning new opponents if you go to the AFC, etc. it is too risky imo.

So, this only holds true if everything is equal on years and overall/guaranteed money.
Btw, I think he and Suh would be terrific together..  
Big Blue '56 : 3/23/2017 6:31 pm : link
.
RE: Looks like DEAL agency, CEO Kevin Poston, represents him.  
ThatLimerickGuy : 3/23/2017 7:28 pm : link
In comment 13404411 yatqb said:
Quote:
Is that right, Limerick guy?


That is correct. Don't be surprised if he pulls a Plaxico and fires his agent who winds up taking the fall for this one.

From what I understand part of the problem is that the Giants original offer, which was for about 7 mil per year for 3 years has now been pulled based on what the market has shown. Once an informal offer goes out, the agents use it as a starting point, which the Giants are no longer willing to do. The opposite actually as they have now come way down.

There is also a pride issue in play. At some point players (if they are going to take a "show me" deal) want to go to a new team, where they figure that if they play well they will get the long term deal there. Almost like hitting the reset button on a career. Apparently this happens a lot.

Miami is one team in the mix but there is another that my source doesn't know yet who is sniffing around like a shark with blood in the water looking to get a good value on a good player who is getting antsy.
RE: RE: Looks like DEAL agency, CEO Kevin Poston, represents him.  
Ray_Ray (NYG) : 3/23/2017 8:02 pm : link
In comment 13404475 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13404411 yatqb said:

Thanks ThatLimerickGuy. Appreciate all your information and feedback

Quote:


Is that right, Limerick guy?



That is correct. Don't be surprised if he pulls a Plaxico and fires his agent who winds up taking the fall for this one.

From what I understand part of the problem is that the Giants original offer, which was for about 7 mil per year for 3 years has now been pulled based on what the market has shown. Once an informal offer goes out, the agents use it as a starting point, which the Giants are no longer willing to do. The opposite actually as they have now come way down.

There is also a pride issue in play. At some point players (if they are going to take a "show me" deal) want to go to a new team, where they figure that if they play well they will get the long term deal there. Almost like hitting the reset button on a career. Apparently this happens a lot.

Miami is one team in the mix but there is another that my source doesn't know yet who is sniffing around like a shark with blood in the water looking to get a good value on a good player who is getting antsy.
Miami wants him as a rotation guy  
ZogZerg : 3/23/2017 8:03 pm : link
Hard to show off skills rotating.
The question is,  
Doomster : 3/23/2017 8:14 pm : link
with 3 all stars in your DL, and based on what he did last year, can he easily be replaced? I think the answer is yes....they are not going to pay him big bucks, and I think he goes to whoever makes a decent offer....
I am a little confused with some of you  
louied7535 : 3/23/2017 8:40 pm : link
There is no comparison between JH and snacks however those of you that say Hankins isn't that good remember there are two sides to a defense of line in the giants run defense last year was phenomenal Snacks was the biggest part of that but so was Hankins I don't really have an answer as to why he's getting little to no interest but he is definitely under valued here by some
Hankins is not a "difference maker"  
annexOPR : 3/23/2017 8:40 pm : link
the rest of the NFL knows this too - which is why he's still available.
Defensive  
louied7535 : 3/23/2017 8:41 pm : link
Not defense of obviously
I also  
louied7535 : 3/23/2017 8:43 pm : link
Think Hankins is better at his position then some of these other guys at their positions but are getting ridiculous money I understand that defensive tackle is not a sexy position but some of the money these receivers got is ridiculous
Based on previous contracts  
Glover : 3/23/2017 9:19 pm : link
Hankins deserves to be paid in the 10m/year range. Of course teams dont care about that, but can't expect Big Hank to be quick to sign for much less than that.
I love Hankins and hope we can keep him,  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/23/2017 9:20 pm : link
but his agent seems to have botched this for him, sadly. And as much as I like Hank, he's not really in the position or a great enough player to hold out. I think he winds up staying when all is said and done.
They obviously misread the market  
blueblood : 3/23/2017 9:49 pm : link
and Hankins will probably walk away from the Giants and I suspect more because of pride than anything else.
Hankins IS A Difference Maker  
grizz299 : 3/24/2017 12:18 am : link
If you play Dallas twice a year. Matchups, it's all about matchups...he's better than a classic no. 3, because against Dallas it's about that rough interior and less about rushing Prescott.
Position  
Dragon : 3/24/2017 1:47 am : link
Not Hankins is the problem when the best NT tackle Wilfork was a free agent and without a doubt the best in the game did he get a big payday? I don't know why but the NT position player is needed but not highly paid for by most teams. He is right now at the point where he could become the best in a couple of years or just remain the solid NT he has been no one knows but teams don't pay the NT position big dollars the simple fact.
RE: I am a little confused with some of you  
Joey in VA : 3/24/2017 8:36 am : link
In comment 13404505 louied7535 said:
Quote:
There is no comparison between JH and snacks however those of you that say Hankins isn't that good remember there are two sides to a defense of line in the giants run defense last year was phenomenal Snacks was the biggest part of that but so was Hankins I don't really have an answer as to why he's getting little to no interest but he is definitely under valued here by some
Well of course he's undervalued by some and overvalued by others, like every other player in the NFL since the dawn of FA. The market is telling him that he's not a highly coveted, game changing DT and he's not. He's a solid run stopping DT, nothing more, nothing less. He won't get you killed but he's not leading some resurgence on a DL with little talent either. He's pretty good, that's about it.
A three year contract would be best for both sides.  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/24/2017 9:17 am : link
If he blossoms into a more elite player, when the contract is up he's still young enough for another payday. A one year contract not smart for Giants. If Hankins "proves it," then he can thank the team for making him a better player and get his big money with another team. Another Marcellus Bennett fiasco.

Hankins still has room to grow. If he can remember where those seven sacks came from, a DT who is good at run stuffing but can pressure up the middle on passing downs and come away with a half dozen sacks, that player would get his big bucks. Over three years there's a pretty good chance that Harrison misses a string of games and Hank can show his stuff without being under the shadow of Snacks.

One thing for sure, he'll be making a terrible mistake if he doesn't return to the Giant before that door closes. He tested free agency and it wasn't there for him.
Giants want him back at their number  
JonC : 3/24/2017 9:40 am : link
it's just basic business and both sides are playing the game, imv.

If he doesn't sign by the draft, there's a significant change they draft his replacement.

He's a good player with considerable potential, but I don't see a difference maker worth $8-10M yet, imo.
'I don't see a difference maker worth $8-10M yet'...  
Torrag : 3/24/2017 9:49 am : link
...agreed. One very good season interspersed by a serious injury. Which is why his asking price is confusing. A one year deal makes the most sense to establish a stronger track record. He's probably better off signing elsewhere where he'll play the nose whether it be a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme. At 6'3/320# that's his 'natural' position imo.
Jerry said that he wanted to bring back that whole defensive unit,  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/24/2017 10:28 am : link
and so far everything that he's has done has been consistent with that.

I agree that eight million is just not reasonable for Hankins to expect. But I think Jerry has a serious offer on the table. If it's three years, five million maybe he could push it up to six. The Giants have him through the rest of Eli's career and when the contract is up Hankins is still a young man and can get paid well again.

If Hankins doesn't come back then there will be a downgrade at his position. Will the defense play as well with his replacement? I don't know, but you'd rather not downgrade any position just to save a few million.

But right now it's Hankin's move. Seems so strange to be getting so little hard information about what's going on and who's offering what.
I don't see Hankins returning  
Bramton1 : 3/24/2017 10:46 am : link
It's hard to come back with egg on your face.
RE: I don't see Hankins returning  
Big Rick in FL : 3/24/2017 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13404912 Bramton1 said:
Quote:
It's hard to come back with egg on your face.


No egg on your face if the Giants are offering the most money like Dolphins beat writer Armando Salguero suggested the other day.
Surprised  
TyreeHelmet : 3/24/2017 12:13 pm : link
Coughlin with the Jags hasn't shown any interest.
RE: Surprised  
Big Rick in FL : 3/24/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13405070 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
Coughlin with the Jags hasn't shown any interest.


They really don't have a spot for him. They just spent big money on Malik Jackson last year and Calais Campbell this year.
RE: I don't see Hankins returning  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/24/2017 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13404912 Bramton1 said:
Quote:
It's hard to come back with egg on your face.


Yeah, I think Tuck made that mistake. Reese's offer was low enough that Tuck thought it was insulting. So he signs with the Raiders for a little more money and how does that work out?

Pride can get in the way. But Hankins is just a young guy without a long resume of accomplishments.
This is my opinion - I believe a committee can improve upon his play  
Bob in Newburgh : 3/24/2017 1:02 pm : link
I believe Thomas is more immovable.

I believe Bromley is a better quick penetrator.

I believe Okwara, JPP, are better inside pass rushers when everyone knows that statistical the opposition has to pass.
TC historically has preferred tall, long DTs  
JonC : 3/24/2017 1:54 pm : link
That's what he has now as well.
Jordan Ranaan said  
Big Rick in FL : 3/24/2017 3:58 pm : link
Neither side is in a hurry to get a deal done and that not much will change between now and the draft.

I just don't see how that's possible. I'd assume the Giants will want to know if they are going to need to draft a DT and I'd assume Hankins value is going to go down even more the closer we get to the draft. Whose going to offer him more money when they can draft a guy in a couple of weeks.
RE: He is a free agent  
Carson53 : 3/24/2017 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13404323 Steve in South Jersey said:
Quote:
it is not a hold out.
.

Bingo! He can however hold out from making $$$$, that would be
quite dumb on his part. The market has not played out well
for the DT position in general. Only the guy from the Ravens
got a big pay day. Poe and Benny Logan took one year deals.
Eventually Hankins will make a decision, but he is not in a hurry. Some want him re-signed, I just wish they had a real viable option. Thomas was a 'street' free agent, and I haven't seen that much from Bromley.
As I mentioned previously, Vereen should take a paycut, and
JR got my memo (LOL)....I also said DRC should take one,
IF they want Hankins badly enough. If they don't, move on
to a cheaper alternative.
RE: Jordan Ranaan said  
Carson53 : 3/24/2017 4:52 pm : link
In comment 13405572 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Neither side is in a hurry to get a deal done and that not much will change between now and the draft.

I just don't see how that's possible. I'd assume the Giants will want to know if they are going to need to draft a DT and I'd assume Hankins value is going to go down even more the closer we get to the draft. Whose going to offer him more money when they can draft a guy in a couple of weeks.


Just asking, did you notice the GTD money for JPP, not quite
40-43 mill. eh? I tried to tell you. As they say, live and learn.
RE: RE: Jordan Ranaan said  
Big Rick in FL : 3/24/2017 5:50 pm : link
In comment 13405662 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 13405572 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:




Just asking, did you notice the GTD money for JPP, not quite
40-43 mill. eh? I tried to tell you. As they say, live and learn.


I literally have no clue what you're talking about.
RE: RE: RE: Jordan Ranaan said  
Carson53 : 3/24/2017 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13405697 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 13405662 Carson53 said:


Quote:


In comment 13405572 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:





Just asking, did you notice the GTD money for JPP, not quite
40-43 mill. eh? I tried to tell you. As they say, live and learn.



I literally have no clue what you're talking about.


Funny how people forget when they are so wrong.
For your recollection purposes, you were constantly banging the drum about how much GTD. money JPP would get, at least
40-43 mill. I told you a couple times, that's not going to happen. I am not trying to be 'that guy', but you were consistent with your commentary on his GTD. money.
I guess if you want to have selective memory, that's up
to you.
He will be signed by  
Slade : 3/24/2017 6:33 pm : link
Monday.
'He will be signed by'...  
Torrag : 3/24/2017 7:19 pm : link
...one year or multi?
Carson53  
Big Rick in FL : 3/24/2017 7:50 pm : link
Yeah because I should remember everything that I talk about on a message board. I'm not quite sure your point, but he did get 40 million guaranteed.
RE: He will be signed by  
est1986 : 3/24/2017 8:46 pm : link
In comment 13405727 Slade said:
Quote:
Monday.


Giants? Or bye bye?
RE: Carson53  
Carson53 : 3/24/2017 9:59 pm : link
In comment 13405782 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Yeah because I should remember everything that I talk about on a message board. I'm not quite sure your point, but he did get 40 million guaranteed.
.

If you talk as much crap as you do, maybe you should?
Here you go, $29M FULLY guaranteed at signing (signing bonus + 2017 salary + $7.5M of 2018 salary).
Why don't you get off  
Big Rick in FL : 3/24/2017 11:53 pm : link
Your high horse considering just about everybody that writes for the NFL says it's 40 million guaranteed. Including multiple Giants writers & Spotrac.com (Linked below)

Art Stapleton
Quote:
@art_stapleton: Only details I was able to confirm: 4 years, $62 million with $4 million in additional incentives, $40 million in total guarantees


Pat Leonard
Quote:
On defense, Reese on Friday re-signed Pierre-Paul to a blockbuster four-year, $62 million contract with $40 million guaranteed


Ian Rapoport
Quote:
@RapSheet: #Giants pass-rusher Jason Pierre-Paul signed a 4-year contract worth $62M base – up $66M – with $40M guaranteed, source said. Big-time 💰💰💰


Adam Schefter
Quote:
@AdamSchefter: Jason Pierre-Paul signed a four-year deal that will pay him $62 million, including $40 million guaranteed.


Jordan Raanan
Quote:
@JordanRaanan: JPP's deal with Giants is 4 years and $62M without incentives. That's an average of $15.5M per year. It includes $40 million guaranteed.


Dan Duggan
Quote:
Pierre-Paul finally got his coveted long-term contract from the Giants with a four-year deal reportedly worth $62-66 million with $40 million guaranteed.


Would you like me to keep going? The two top reporters in football disagree with you. So I'm gonna go with what they say and not what some bitter old man on a message board says. Looks like I hit the nail right on the head.
JPP Contract Details - ( New Window )
RE: Why don't you get off  
Carson53 : 3/25/2017 6:31 am : link
In comment 13405958 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Your high horse considering just about everybody that writes for the NFL says it's 40 million guaranteed. Including multiple Giants writers & Spotrac.com (Linked below)

Art Stapleton


Quote:


@art_stapleton: Only details I was able to confirm: 4 years, $62 million with $4 million in additional incentives, $40 million in total guarantees



Pat Leonard


Quote:


On defense, Reese on Friday re-signed Pierre-Paul to a blockbuster four-year, $62 million contract with $40 million guaranteed



Ian Rapoport


Quote:


@RapSheet: #Giants pass-rusher Jason Pierre-Paul signed a 4-year contract worth $62M base – up $66M – with $40M guaranteed, source said. Big-time 💰💰💰



Adam Schefter


Quote:


@AdamSchefter: Jason Pierre-Paul signed a four-year deal that will pay him $62 million, including $40 million guaranteed.



Jordan Raanan


Quote:


@JordanRaanan: JPP's deal with Giants is 4 years and $62M without incentives. That's an average of $15.5M per year. It includes $40 million guaranteed.



Dan Duggan


Quote:


Pierre-Paul finally got his coveted long-term contract from the Giants with a four-year deal reportedly worth $62-66 million with $40 million guaranteed.



Would you like me to keep going? The two top reporters in football disagree with you. So I'm gonna go with what they say and not what some bitter old man on a message board says. Looks like I hit the nail right on the head. JPP Contract Details - ( New Window )


Now try OTC and sportrac, more accurate and reliable than the average reporters. The average reporters don't know more than you and and I my friend. It's 29 M FULLY GUARANTEED!
That's where I got my info. from!
I am not bitter, just pointing out when one seems to pontificate too strongly about one subject.
So keep going. Pat Leonard? A newbie writer for the NYDN?
Stapleton is wrong as much as he is right, been doing it too long. He is sloppy at times. Dan Duggan, please.
no need for Hankins  
annexOPR : 3/25/2017 9:57 am : link
perfect compliment to Snacks:

http://www.giants.com/videos/videos/FB-Nikita-Whitlock-highlights-vs-Eagles/d0053e1b-fe9b-4b7f-88f0-f92677ca44e1
Carson53  
Klaatu : 3/25/2017 10:10 am : link
You're confusing Fully Guaranteed at Signing with Total Guaranteed. As spotrac lists them, it's $29 million for the former, $40 million for the latter.

Quote:
Jason Pierre-Paul signed a 4 year, $62,000,000 contract with the New York Giants, including a $20,000,000 signing bonus, $40,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $15,500,000. In 2017, Pierre-Paul will earn a base salary of $1,500,000, a signing bonus of $20,000,000 and a roster bonus of $750,000, while carrying a cap hit of $7,250,000 and a dead cap value of $29,000,000.



Quote:
GTD AT SIGN:
$29,000,000

TOTAL GTD:
$40,000,000


Link - ( New Window )
Carson53  
Big Rick in FL : 3/26/2017 8:00 am : link
Cat got your tongue? Please apologize to me and tell me that I hit the amount of money right on the head. Thanks!
RE: Carson53  
Klaatu : 3/26/2017 8:22 am : link
In comment 13406896 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
Cat got your tongue? Please apologize to me and tell me that I hit the amount of money right on the head. Thanks!


Too late.
Lol that's hilarious  
Big Rick in FL : 3/26/2017 9:11 am : link
Any idea what he was suspended for?
Nope. Not a clue, Rick.  
Klaatu : 3/26/2017 9:21 am : link
But somehow I doubt we'll be seeing a "Free Carson53" thread anytime soon.
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