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Man, the top of the 2013 draft was ugly

ErichBarnes102 : 3/24/2017 7:49 am
only 47% of 1st 64 picks still with same team. Only 1 of 11 QBs taken - Big Ben's backup.

Ouch - really emphasizes what a crapshoot drafting can be.

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That was the year we drafted Pugh.  
Ira : 3/24/2017 8:00 am : link
There were some other good players - Ertz, Frederick, Eiffert, etc. But you're right. The top of the first round was a disaster.
We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/24/2017 8:01 am : link
Rounds. That draft could have been a complete disaster, but we came out of it with 2 starters. One of the reasons I will never understand the drafting heat Reese gets.
Funny thing about that draft  
figgy2989 : 3/24/2017 8:07 am : link
No RB's taken in the first round.

Bell and Lacy were taken in the middle of the second.
RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
AcidTest : 3/24/2017 9:01 am : link
In comment 13404657 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Rounds. That draft could have been a complete disaster, but we came out of it with 2 starters. One of the reasons I will never understand the drafting heat Reese gets.


Reese drafted horribly for several years. He started to improve in 2013.
RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/24/2017 9:34 am : link
In comment 13404696 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 13404657 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


Rounds. That draft could have been a complete disaster, but we came out of it with 2 starters. One of the reasons I will never understand the drafting heat Reese gets.



Reese drafted horribly for several years. He started to improve in 2013.


Please tell me his busts in the first and second round. David Wilson is not one of them since he was injured. So I don't want to hear that argument.
Clint Sintim, Marvin Austin  
figgy2989 : 3/24/2017 9:39 am : link
.
Not wnating to hear an  
jvm52106 : 3/24/2017 9:42 am : link
argument doesn't lessen the argument. Wilson was a bad pick period. Couldn't block, so playing for a coach who will NOT play RB's who can't block is a problem. Was very average between the tackles and fumbled easily. Was a very limited player who made a few bright plays on Special Teams.

That was a poor pick at that point and one the Gmen should not have made.
RE: Not wnating to hear an  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/24/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13404748 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
argument doesn't lessen the argument. Wilson was a bad pick period. Couldn't block, so playing for a coach who will NOT play RB's who can't block is a problem. Was very average between the tackles and fumbled easily. Was a very limited player who made a few bright plays on Special Teams.

That was a poor pick at that point and one the Gmen should not have made.


Yes a young player that became the first player in NFL history with 200 kick return yards and 100 rushing yards, and the second player since 1970 with a kick return touchdown and two rushing touchdowns, in the same game in his first season is a complete bust.

When he was given full reigns at the RB position our line was garbage. You can make an argument that the Wilson pick should have been an O-lineman, but that doesn't make him a bust.
wilson  
annexOPR : 3/24/2017 9:50 am : link
was the only 1st round pick I can remember where I was actually upset with the pick. I watch the draft with my dad every year ... we still joke about how pissed I was at the time. I wanted Alshon or Cordy Glenn.

having said that, I also wasn't thrilled with the Beckham pick at the time (to be fair, I wanted Z.Martin so not a bad consolation)
RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/24/2017 12:42 pm : link
In comment 13404740 BigBlueDownTheShore said:
Quote:
Please tell me his busts in the first and second round. David Wilson is not one of them since he was injured. So I don't want to hear that argument.


Just to get you started

2012:
David Wilson
Reuben Randle
Jayron Hosley
Adrien Robinson

2011:
Marvin Austin
Jerrell Jernigan
James Brewer

Also, the fact JPP is the only first rounder Reese picked to secure a long-term contract is pretty damning.
RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
djm : 3/24/2017 1:13 pm : link
In comment 13404696 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 13404657 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


Rounds. That draft could have been a complete disaster, but we came out of it with 2 starters. One of the reasons I will never understand the drafting heat Reese gets.



Reese drafted horribly for several years. He started to improve in 2013.


Several years? More like two years. 2011 and 2012 hurt. The rest were solid if not great.

The team's struggles from 2013-2015 weren't all attributed to bad drafts. The Giants could have drafted Wagner or someone better over Wilson and they still struggle during the lean years. They got old overnight. They should have seen it coming and kick started the rebuild in 2012 or more realistically, 2013. They should have stayed out of FA in 2013 rather than stop gap fill a bunch of spots with one year deals.

The Giants were going to suck for at least 2 years no matter what they did. Losing 10-12 core players over the course of one or two years is tough to overcome, especially if the OL suffered the most attrition of all.

Pats fans should donate all their extra money to church and charity. No fan base has even been as blessed.
10-12 players  
djm : 3/24/2017 1:19 pm : link
may not even be accurate. It's more.

The Giants drafted brilliantly in 2007 and 2008 and by the time Eli was hoisting the lombardi in Feb 2012 those guys were done in NY. Every single one of them. Done. That's going to catch up with you unless you hit on every single draft after that. The Giants didn't. They did ok in 09 with Nicks but not much else. They did very well in 2010 with JPP and Willy JO, but not much after. Solid drafts but not special drafts. The 2012-2015 fate was sealed at this point because when you couple the injury and attrition factor along with the salary cap issues any successful team will encounter, it's inevitable. Salary cap + attrition + two bad drafts + bad luck = two years of a dreadful roster (13-14) and one year of competitive but losing play in 2015.

RE: RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
djm : 3/24/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13405147 OdellBeckhamJr said:
Quote:
In comment 13404740 BigBlueDownTheShore said:


Quote:


Please tell me his busts in the first and second round. David Wilson is not one of them since he was injured. So I don't want to hear that argument.



Just to get you started

2012:
David Wilson
Reuben Randle
Jayron Hosley
Adrien Robinson

2011:
Marvin Austin
Jerrell Jernigan
James Brewer

Also, the fact JPP is the only first rounder Reese picked to secure a long-term contract is pretty damning.


Depends on how you examine it, if you even tried. I'd also be curious to see how many GMs actually sign their own guys a second time. It's probably not a big number but this is the latest BBI song and dance that people love to parrot.

Was the Hakeem Nicks pick a bad one? What about Kenny Phillips? Or Terrel Thomas? Manningham? You wouldn't draft MArio Manningham in round three again? Actually you'd draft him in round 2 and be thrilled. Were those picks "damning"? What about the entire 2007 draft class?You know, the one that helped the Giants win a super bowl? Didn't sign any of those to second deals. Was that a damning draft?

Also, Pugh is likely to stay on a second deal. So is BEckham. So is Collins. So is Shepard. And Apple.

Damming....right.
Thank You  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/24/2017 1:44 pm : link
DJM
RE: Not wnating to hear an  
kinard : 3/24/2017 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13404748 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
argument doesn't lessen the argument. Wilson was a bad pick period. Couldn't block, so playing for a coach who will NOT play RB's who can't block is a problem. Was very average between the tackles and fumbled easily. Was a very limited player who made a few bright plays on Special Teams.

That was a poor pick at that point and one the Gmen should not have made.


Oh stop - In two years, between running the ball, returning kicks and catching passes, he touched the ball 181 times and fumbled 3 times. I've seen guys like Adrian Peterson and Tiki Barber fumble the ball three times in one game.

Wilson got banged up (and dog-housed by Coughlin). To call him a bad pick is completely inaccurate.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/24/2017 2:49 pm : link
In comment 13405251 djm said:
Quote:
Depends on how you examine it, if you even tried. I'd also be curious to see how many GMs actually sign their own guys a second time. It's probably not a big number but this is the latest BBI song and dance that people love to parrot.

Was the Hakeem Nicks pick a bad one? What about Kenny Phillips? Or Terrel Thomas? Manningham? You wouldn't draft MArio Manningham in round three again? Actually you'd draft him in round 2 and be thrilled. Were those picks "damning"? What about the entire 2007 draft class?You know, the one that helped the Giants win a super bowl? Didn't sign any of those to second deals. Was that a damning draft?

Also, Pugh is likely to stay on a second deal. So is BEckham. So is Collins. So is Shepard. And Apple.

Damming....right.


So when he starts picking towards the top of the rounds his picks magically got better? Lets not forget the elephant in the kitchen, the team was 7-9, 6-10, 6-10, yeah he horribly mismanaged the team for several years and wasted Eli's prime. He deserves all the criticism he receives.
They tried to squeeze  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/24/2017 3:01 pm : link
one more super bowl run out of the core of the last 2. The line fell apart, and that's how we got to those 2 bad seasons.
RE: RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
Greg from LI : 3/24/2017 3:03 pm : link
In comment 13405147 OdellBeckhamJr said:
Quote:
Also, the fact JPP is the only first rounder Reese picked to secure a long-term contract is pretty damning.


Kenny Phillips wrecked his knee.

Hakeem Nicks did....something. His injuries were always a bit mysterious, but from 2012 onward he was a shell of himself.
Are you going to seriously sit there and tell me the Giants wouldn't have looked to resign either one of them if their careers hadn't been ruined by injuries?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/24/2017 3:09 pm : link
In comment 13405443 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
In comment 13405147 OdellBeckhamJr said:


Quote:


Also, the fact JPP is the only first rounder Reese picked to secure a long-term contract is pretty damning.



Kenny Phillips wrecked his knee.

Hakeem Nicks did....something. His injuries were always a bit mysterious, but from 2012 onward he was a shell of himself.
Are you going to seriously sit there and tell me the Giants wouldn't have looked to resign either one of them if their careers hadn't been ruined by injuries?


It's just too many excuses, and besides look at the rest of those drafts, they're not good at all. Travis Beckhum, Ramses Barden, etc.
Yes, there were some shitty picks  
Greg from LI : 3/24/2017 3:15 pm : link
No one argues otherwise, but to claim that JPP was the only worthy first round pick is asinine.
RE: wilson  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/24/2017 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13404774 annexOPR said:
Quote:
was the only 1st round pick I can remember where I was actually upset with the pick. I watch the draft with my dad every year ... we still joke about how pissed I was at the time. I wanted Alshon or Cordy Glenn.

having said that, I also wasn't thrilled with the Beckham pick at the time (to be fair, I wanted Z.Martin so not a bad consolation)


The issue w Wilson was there wAsnt a huge need for a RB and he was far from a sure thing.

Meanwhile passing on Glenn and Bobby Wagner out positions of need a
D those guys were very good prospects.

Wilson was like Sinioroce Moss. They fell in love w speed and it failed them. Wilson even pre injury wasn't lighting it up as a
RB
RE: Not wnating to hear an  
UConn4523 : 3/24/2017 4:30 pm : link
In comment 13404748 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
argument doesn't lessen the argument. Wilson was a bad pick period. Couldn't block, so playing for a coach who will NOT play RB's who can't block is a problem. Was very average between the tackles and fumbled easily. Was a very limited player who made a few bright plays on Special Teams.

That was a poor pick at that point and one the Gmen should not have made.


Well that's a really poor assessment. Does McCoy suck? Charles? On and on.

Wilson wasn't drafted to carry the full load, he was drafted for his game changing ability that we sadly only got a taste of. How is taking the 32nd overall player with this ability a bad pick?
We overestimated the talent on our OL with the Wilson pick  
David in LA : 3/24/2017 6:08 pm : link
Wilson came in with similar weaknesses as most rookies, I think we embellish how bad his weaknesses actually were. If he had such poor vision, or instincts, he would not have averaged 5 yards a carry his rookie season.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
drkenneth : 3/24/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13405458 OdellBeckhamJr said:
Quote:
In comment 13405443 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13405147 OdellBeckhamJr said:


Quote:


Also, the fact JPP is the only first rounder Reese picked to secure a long-term contract is pretty damning.



Kenny Phillips wrecked his knee.

Hakeem Nicks did....something. His injuries were always a bit mysterious, but from 2012 onward he was a shell of himself.
Are you going to seriously sit there and tell me the Giants wouldn't have looked to resign either one of them if their careers hadn't been ruined by injuries?



It's just too many excuses, and besides look at the rest of those drafts, they're not good at all. Travis Beckhum, Ramses Barden, etc.


You need to get a grip.
RE: wilson  
drkenneth : 3/24/2017 6:19 pm : link
In comment 13404774 annexOPR said:
Quote:
was the only 1st round pick I can remember where I was actually upset with the pick. I watch the draft with my dad every year ... we still joke about how pissed I was at the time. I wanted Alshon or Cordy Glenn.

having said that, I also wasn't thrilled with the Beckham pick at the time (to be fair, I wanted Z.Martin so not a bad consolation)


What are you, like 12 years old?
The mental gymnastics people will go through to kill Reese.  
drkenneth : 3/24/2017 6:22 pm : link
Every team has bad years and bad picks. It's like some of you live in a bubble, it's really frustrating.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
djm : 3/24/2017 8:54 pm : link
In comment 13405416 OdellBeckhamJr said:
Quote:
In comment 13405251 djm said:


Quote:


Depends on how you examine it, if you even tried. I'd also be curious to see how many GMs actually sign their own guys a second time. It's probably not a big number but this is the latest BBI song and dance that people love to parrot.

Was the Hakeem Nicks pick a bad one? What about Kenny Phillips? Or Terrel Thomas? Manningham? You wouldn't draft MArio Manningham in round three again? Actually you'd draft him in round 2 and be thrilled. Were those picks "damning"? What about the entire 2007 draft class?You know, the one that helped the Giants win a super bowl? Didn't sign any of those to second deals. Was that a damning draft?

Also, Pugh is likely to stay on a second deal. So is BEckham. So is Collins. So is Shepard. And Apple.

Damming....right.



So when he starts picking towards the top of the rounds his picks magically got better? Lets not forget the elephant in the kitchen, the team was 7-9, 6-10, 6-10, yeah he horribly mismanaged the team for several years and wasted Eli's prime. He deserves all the criticism he receives.


When it's all said and done, Reese will never be fired from his post and will have at least two lombardis in his case and assuming this team makes the playoffs three more years in a row, a big If but one I think can happen, a Playoff rate higher than 50%. That's great anyway you slice it. Let's say they make the playoffs 2 of the next 3 years to be fair. That's about 50%.

Reese is one of the better GMs in the league. He's got his quirks or tendencies that bother some but he knows how to build a team. I just pray he knows how to find a qb.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
djm : 3/24/2017 8:59 pm : link
In comment 13405458 OdellBeckhamJr said:
Quote:
In comment 13405443 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13405147 OdellBeckhamJr said:


Quote:


Also, the fact JPP is the only first rounder Reese picked to secure a long-term contract is pretty damning.



Kenny Phillips wrecked his knee.

Hakeem Nicks did....something. His injuries were always a bit mysterious, but from 2012 onward he was a shell of himself.
Are you going to seriously sit there and tell me the Giants wouldn't have looked to resign either one of them if their careers hadn't been ruined by injuries?



It's just too many excuses, and besides look at the rest of those drafts, they're not good at all. Travis Beckhum, Ramses Barden, etc.


No one is making Excuses except you. You're finding ways to rip Reese when in reality his defenders don't have to find shit to support him. You're ripping the guy for missing on third round picks. That's fair. Lol.

So the picks he made at the top of the draft don't count? Anyone could have picked Beckham or Collins am I right? Wtf is wrong with Cleveland or the Rams or the jets or bills or jags? They always pick high.

You can find faults with every single gm going. Go look at one of the most respected GMs ever in Ozzie newsome. Go dissect his drafts and get back to me. Fire newsome too?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: We got Pugh and Hankins in back to back  
drkenneth : 3/24/2017 9:55 pm : link
In comment 13405819 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 13405458 OdellBeckhamJr said:


Quote:


In comment 13405443 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


In comment 13405147 OdellBeckhamJr said:


Quote:


Also, the fact JPP is the only first rounder Reese picked to secure a long-term contract is pretty damning.



Kenny Phillips wrecked his knee.

Hakeem Nicks did....something. His injuries were always a bit mysterious, but from 2012 onward he was a shell of himself.
Are you going to seriously sit there and tell me the Giants wouldn't have looked to resign either one of them if their careers hadn't been ruined by injuries?



It's just too many excuses, and besides look at the rest of those drafts, they're not good at all. Travis Beckhum, Ramses Barden, etc.



No one is making Excuses except you. You're finding ways to rip Reese when in reality his defenders don't have to find shit to support him. You're ripping the guy for missing on third round picks. That's fair. Lol.

So the picks he made at the top of the draft don't count? Anyone could have picked Beckham or Collins am I right? Wtf is wrong with Cleveland or the Rams or the jets or bills or jags? They always pick high.

You can find faults with every single gm going. Go look at one of the most respected GMs ever in Ozzie newsome. Go dissect his drafts and get back to me. Fire newsome too?


Well done. Good stuff.
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