In games played. 1 more game and LeBron James will have matched Michael Jordan's total games played (playoffs + regular season).
I remember this guy when he was 16 years old and people like Jerry West were already calling him a legend in the making. I remember the whole "Hummer Saga" like it was yesterday, just non-stop ESPN coverage for a kid in High School. In an era with so many teenaged busts, LeBron entered the league dropping 20/5/5 as a 19 year old and just continued to get better.
Through the same amount of games, Jordan accomplished more and peaked as the better player (arguable though). But what LeBron has accomplished is amazing and he is in my book already the 4th best player of all-time (MJ, Russell, and Kareem). Wilt, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Duncan... LeBron's already ahead of those guys imo.
Still the best player in the league in his 14th season. People always shit on him for not being Jordan. But he is one of the greatest athletes in sports history and the best athlete in popular team sports right now.
Legendary player and it will be interesting to see how long he lasts. His potential longevity gives him a chance to surpass MJ. It'll be fun to see him chase the ghost of MJ over the next few years.
LOL
Or hang around long enough to play with his son...
You are right about the far majority of players but Lebron seems to be superhuman. I wouldn't doubt him playing in his 40s. I'm sure they will be a drop off at some point, but he's such a smart player that I can think he will be able to adapt his game.
I hate the NBA resting guys, but I give Lebron an exception. He does everything on the court, plays the most minutes, 6 straight trips to finals, Olympics ball and never gets hurt. If he wants to rest 5 or 6 games a year, he's earned that.
so you dont even think they can be compared? wow.
Title count isnt the be-all. Robert Horry has 7, making him 17% better than MJ?
MJ's titles are a relevant fact but they cannot be the conversation-ender.
That freaking block he made on Iggy in the closing minutes of Game 7 last year was incredible, something I imagine very few other players executing.
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But can LeBron be compared to MJ? Half as many championships and MJ was a dominant as a player in any sport as I have ever seen.
so you dont even think they can be compared? wow.
Title count isnt the be-all. Robert Horry has 7, making him 17% better than MJ?
Not what I am saying. What I am saying, is that I don't follow the sport because I find it boring. However, as an overall sports fan, I know the names. I look at the low hanging fruit. I legit don't know nor really care. Educate me instead of make fun of me.
Jordan: 40.4 PPG -- 8.3 RPG -- 7.0 APG -- .510 2P% -- .327 3P% -- .835 FT%
LeBron: 36.7 PPG -- 9.8 RPG -- 9.5 APG -- .541 2P% -- .343 3P% -- .740 FT%
Playoffs per 100
Jordan: 43.3 PPG -- 8.3 RPG -- 7.4 APG -- .504 2P% -- .332 3P% -- .828 FT%
LeBron: 36.4 PPG -- 11.5 RPG -- 8.8 APG -- .522 2P% -- .321 3P% -- .746 FT%
Jordan: 6 rings -- 5 MVPs -- 214.0 Win Shares -- 104.4 VORP
LeBron: 3 Rings -- 4 MVPs -- 203.4 Win Shares -- 114.8 VORP
Jordan was the better scorer but LeBron's the better player outside of scoring and yet he's still likely going to end up Top 3 all-time in career Points.
Jordan was 6/6 in the Finals and LeBron is 3/7. In terms of "Legacy", that a monumental edge for Jordan. But LeBron has proven himself as one of the CLUTCHEST PLAYERS OF THIS GENERATION. For whatever reason people don't believe it, but based on the eye test and the numbers... LeBron brings it when it matters most ('11 Finals vs. Dallas being the only major blemish).
LeBron absolutely belongs in the conversation with Jordan. Jordan has a stronger argument in most people's eyes because of the Finals record and because of his more consistently dominant scoring, but LeBron definitely has an argument himself.
It's just tiring to see so many people shit on the guy when he's such a legendary athlete. Just appreciate him while he's still doing this.
Two of those eras are named after a single player. Best two guys I've ever seen lace them up.
B) just being in the conversation with Jordan even if it's to say "he's no Jordan" is itself a massive compliment ("okay yeah Hannah Davis is absurdly hot but she's no prime Cindy")
C) although of it used to be somewhat earned, like after his horrific series v Dallas and the arguable but probably true contention that Jordan would not have teamed up with Magic/Bird/Isaiah, any impugnation of the guy as a player was nuclear bombed after his latest finals series. Yes, the Warriors probably would have still won had Draymond (who also had a legendary game 7) not been suspended...doesn't matter. Lebron was possessed.
He's not done. I maintain that it kinda sucks for basketball fans that he's been in such a weak conference basically his entire career - hopefully the Celtics will change that after picking 1 or 2 #fuckyouBillyKing - but it doesn't change what he is as a player.
IMV he's now cemented the 2nd best player of all time. Just as in hockey it's not really possible to surpass Gretzky, he won't pass MJ in any sort of consensus matter, but #2 is written.
That said, what Jordan did seems unrepeatable. I think Lebron has his place set at #2 with enough time to make a case for #1. But 2 isn't some garbage dump either.
Joe :)
Hell, I saw Curry exhibit it time after time last season, particularly when you'd see opponents' shoulders slump a mere fraction of a second after Curry unleashed a long distance bomb. Usually their body language foreshadowed the shot going in, but sometimes they'd just slump like that even prior to missed shots.
I don't get an opportunity to see enough LeBron games or read enough LeBron-related comments to know whether he has that same gravitas as Jordan did. But I do know that he'll have a psychological effect on at least one team he's likely to meet in the Finals if things go as expected.
Very hard to compare players across different eras, but very hard to discount Wilt in the conversation among Jordan, Lebron and Wilt. I don't think Wilt every had the supporting cast for as long as Jordan and Kobe did. It took Lebron getting a supporting cast to get his rings.
Gretsky is pretty dominant in hockey. How about Phelps in swimming? Going a little farther, how about Secretariat in horse racing?
Don't get me wrong, stephs a fantastic player, but there's really nothing physically intimidating about a 6'3 dude shooting 30 foot 3 point jumpers.
Stopping Lebron requires 5 guys on the court being ready to physically grind in the paint while being able to ready to chase 3 point shooters off the line at a moments notice.
Very hard to compare players across different eras, but very hard to discount Wilt in the conversation among Jordan, Lebron and Wilt. I don't think Wilt every had the supporting cast for as long as Jordan and Kobe did. It took Lebron getting a supporting cast to get his rings.
Gretsky is pretty dominant in hockey. How about Phelps in swimming? Going a little farther, how about Secretariat in horse racing?
Not discounting Wilt's greatness, but Wilt played in an era where there were about 40 more posssions per game and wilt played more minutes as well.
His stats would nonetheless still be impressive, but 23 rebounds a game equates to probably about 15 a game in today's age. And there other factors to throw in (bigs chasing 3 point shooters in today age compared to back then probably would concede a few rebounds as wel).
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Jordan didnt collude with other "stars" in free agency and jump ship to a super team because he was getting nervous his legacy might not live up to the hype.
Jordan eventually got past the Bad Boys and cemented his legacy.
LeBron, in my opinion, as great as he is will always be the guy who went over to Wade's team with Bosh to win a few rings and actually underachieved in doing so.
2 titles is not the 5, 6 and 7 they promised down there.
Last year was impressive, but he's not Jordan.
That reads to me as more of an indictment of the East than something that diminishes LeBron's importance to those teams.
Ray Allen?
For example, just as we'll hear people describe prospects and NBA players as "similar to Dwyane Wade" in the future, we've already seen several players being praised by comparison to Scottie Pippen or Rodman. Those comparisons tend not to be meaningful when they don't involve a superstar.
Maybe I just don't like his style but I'd take either of those 2 players over Lebron any day.
He's definitely not as good as Jordan. I'd also take a prime Shaq over him too.
Maybe I just don't like his style but I'd take either of those 2 players over Lebron any day.
He's definitely not as good as Jordan. I'd also take a prime Shaq over him too.
Magic was a horrendous defender. I don't really think he has much on him besides flashy passes. Lebrons a better shooter, too.
For sure better defender than Shaq.
I think Michael is #1 but to Michael and Lebron are in a class of their own, and then you can talk about everyone else how you want to.
The thing is...Lebron left... and they didn't walk to the ECF without him. And it's not like they just lost Lebron, they had as good of a makeshift replacement as you could've found with Luol Deng.
Magic had other plans. Starting at center, he played all but one minute and exploded for 42 points, 15 rebounds and seven assists, including an impressive 14-of-14 from the line. While Magic wasn't technically playing center for much of the night -- Jim Chones and Mark Landsberger handled that -- he played every spot on the floor during the course of the evening and even launched a Kareem-style skyhook from the post to start the game. More importantly, his work on the boards was a huge factor in the Lakers' ability to overcome Kareem's absence."
People act like no one did what Lebron is doing before Lebron did it. Unlike Lebron, the guys that came before him did it in an era with dominant big men all across the league.
You misread that post. The flashy passes was re what Magic had over Lebron (according to the poster), not a straight assessment of Magic.
Magic had other plans. Starting at center, he played all but one minute and exploded for 42 points, 15 rebounds and seven assists, including an impressive 14-of-14 from the line. While Magic wasn't technically playing center for much of the night -- Jim Chones and Mark Landsberger handled that -- he played every spot on the floor during the course of the evening and even launched a Kareem-style skyhook from the post to start the game. More importantly, his work on the boards was a huge factor in the Lakers' ability to overcome Kareem's absence."
People act like no one did what Lebron is doing before Lebron did it. Unlike Lebron, the guys that came before him did it in an era with dominant big men all across the league.
Where did I say that?
I'm saying Magic is widely considered a below average defender (he's a center guarding PGs, not a big shocker), while Lebron is one of the greatest defenders of all time.
Defense is half the game.
People do realize MJ walked in the prime of his career to play baseball right?
Jordan did more with less and in truly dominant fashion.
People do realize MJ walked in the prime of his career to play baseball right?
Jordan did more with less and in truly dominant fashion.
I don't think anyone would agree with you that Lebron's not top 10. I'm a Laker fan and I think he's easily top 3 all time if he walked away right now. The "Jordan did more than less" narrative is straight up BS. People minimize others around Jordan to make the conversation convenient, Pippen and Phil Jackson wasn't chopped liver, and they made it to the ECF without Jordan and almost went to the Finals. Lebron leaves, and teams end up in the lotto or barely make it into the playoffs.
Or the Bad Boy Pistons with Dennis Rodman all over him trying to mentally break him? Getting cheap-shotted everytime he drove the lane?
Don't get me wrong, stephs a fantastic player, but there's really nothing physically intimidating about a 6'3 dude shooting 30 foot 3 point jumpers.
Stopping Lebron requires 5 guys on the court being ready to physically grind in the paint while being able to ready to chase 3 point shooters off the line at a moments notice.
Kawhi Leonard says "Hello".
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yes, Lebron strikes a fuck ton more fear than opponents compared to Steph.
Don't get me wrong, stephs a fantastic player, but there's really nothing physically intimidating about a 6'3 dude shooting 30 foot 3 point jumpers.
Stopping Lebron requires 5 guys on the court being ready to physically grind in the paint while being able to ready to chase 3 point shooters off the line at a moments notice.
Kawhi Leonard says "Hello".
Kawhi Leonard might be an anomaly to any question ever posed.