and heard someone say Josh Jackson could be an Iggy-type player, but would you really want that with a top 3 pick?
That threw me off. If you could guarantee me someone becoming Iggy I'd take that #2 in almost any draft (I'll save #1 with the caveat that there are some generational players like Davis, Lebron, KAT, etc). But otherwise I'd take Iggy at #1 in some drafts as well. Maybe even this draft. Maybe.
The draft is a fun time filled with hope and all that shit, but I think people need to temper expectations.
Like so what if Markannen is a shittier KP? That doesn't help for comparison sake to other prospects. I'd take a poor mans KP over a Dennis Schroeder, for instance.
after I wrote a paragraph on the risk/reward of Markkanen! lol
Care to share here lol?
Well I posted this tweet
"Fran FraschillaVerified account @franfraschilla 2h2 hours ago
More
It was strangely difficult for high lottery pick Lauri Markkanen to get off clean look last night. Credit athletic, tough XU D. Interesting."
Which is sort of the quandary with Markkanen. His shot is absolutely beautiful. Release, rotation, even if he were 6'5 and not 7 feet that would be a pretty shot. That said, there are valid concerns in regard to his ability to create space. He doesn't have to beat guys off the dribble. How many Kevin Durant's are there. people focus on the rare highlight where a 7 footer crosses someone over and dunks but that's not the norm.
Just creating space and creating enough room to get his shot off. I don't "love" Markkanen for the Knicks, don't love the fit and I think these are real concerns but the guy can play. I have a hard time believing he's going be Steve Novak. I also think it highlights how unusual KP is. Considering his size his quickness is pretty remarkable.
The way the Knicks are going, they'll have better players to pick from
I don't think the draft from two years ago was as deep as this year's, but still - guys like Russell, Okafor, Mudiay, Winslow, Hezonja, etc., have all underwhelmed. We're very fortunate to have landed Porzingis with that pick. We'll need similar good fortune this time around.
RE: The way the Knicks are going, they'll have better players to pick from
than Markkanen. I'm expecting them to pick no lower than 5th.
But then we read them high on Monk/Frenchy and it makes me question if they would even know the "better" players. Imagine them taking Frenchy over Smith because of his triangle fit...
and heard someone say Josh Jackson could be an Iggy-type player, but would you really want that with a top 3 pick?
That threw me off. If you could guarantee me someone becoming Iggy I'd take that #2 in almost any draft (I'll save #1 with the caveat that there are some generational players like Davis, Lebron, KAT, etc). But otherwise I'd take Iggy at #1 in some drafts as well. Maybe even this draft. Maybe.
The draft is a fun time filled with hope and all that shit, but I think people need to temper expectations.
Like so what if Markannen is a shittier KP? That doesn't help for comparison sake to other prospects. I'd take a poor mans KP over a Dennis Schroeder, for instance.
I think Iggy would be a terrible result for a #1 overall pick.
I trust Phil and staff a lot more with college/int'l scouting
than I do with trades and free agents. There was a lot of talk on BBI about Trey Lyles leading up to the draft, another guy the Knicks were supposedly very high on.
RE: The way the Knicks are going, they'll have better players to pick from
The ping pong balls can always bounce our way, but we need to go 1-10 down the stretch to do some serious damage in the standings. It behooves us to shut down Melo and Rose completely. They're both a little banged up and have a lot of mileage anyway.
I like Markannen a lot, but he's like 99% of players his age/size...
he needs to get stronger. He's not going to create space with his dribble. KP has some difficulty doing that (when certain guys are guarding him) and he has a much better handle than Lauri. He's going to be a GREAT spot up shooter and he'll be able to add post moves when he gets stronger. Zach Collins is a similar example.
The only argument for not wanting him on the Knicks is redundancy.
And have lost four straight while the Sixers have gone 2-2. The only game the Knicks have left with much of a chance to win is against the Sixers while the Sixers play the Nets twice as well as the Knicks. The Magic are a game up but also play two against the Nets.
I honestly don't see the Knicks winning more than one more game.
RE: RE: I was listening to a podcast a few days ago
mocks have Monk falling to us in the 6-7 range? You guys think this is possible? Of course first hope would be for an elite PG, but SG like him that can fill it up sure would be needed and nice. Seems like solid vet PG's can be had in free agency.
and heard someone say Josh Jackson could be an Iggy-type player, but would you really want that with a top 3 pick?
That threw me off. If you could guarantee me someone becoming Iggy I'd take that #2 in almost any draft (I'll save #1 with the caveat that there are some generational players like Davis, Lebron, KAT, etc). But otherwise I'd take Iggy at #1 in some drafts as well. Maybe even this draft. Maybe.
The draft is a fun time filled with hope and all that shit, but I think people need to temper expectations.
Like so what if Markannen is a shittier KP? That doesn't help for comparison sake to other prospects. I'd take a poor mans KP over a Dennis Schroeder, for instance.
I think Iggy would be a terrible result for a #1 overall pick.
That's 100% i said #2 with the caveat at 1. The guy said it would be a bad result for a "top 3" pick, which I staunchly disagree with. Iggy would be a better result than like 15-20% of the #1 overall picks of the last two decades.
mocks have Monk falling to us in the 6-7 range? You guys think this is possible? Of course first hope would be for an elite PG, but SG like him that can fill it up sure would be needed and nice. Seems like solid vet PG's can be had in free agency.
He could go anywhere from 4-10 and it wouldn't be a shock.
thing doesn't bother me. Anyone who's been paying attention knows that Mills is running the team.
Also, I really wonder whether treating tournament games as the be all and end all of scouting makes sense. These kids play 30-40+ games a year.
Attending the statute ceremony isn't a huge deal, but do you think Phil has scouted one college game in person this year? Watching a player in person is different than watching on TV. Your paying Phil for basketball mind, Id love to see him use it.
Im not at all sure we really are. He has no experience doing that. I dont think he did any of the live game scouting on 4 of the 5 picks so far, since they're Euros, and maybe even not Cle.
Im not at all sure we really are. He has no experience doing that. I dont think he did any of the live game scouting on 4 of the 5 picks so far, since they're Euros, and maybe even not Cle.
He scouted Okafor, Russell, WCS, Towns, Lyles, Booker in person for sure. Almost certainly more.
heavily than any regular season games against good teams.
You weight tourney games more you do things like turn down a Nets pick for frank Kaminsky, take Okafor top 5 and Winslow top 10, take Burke 6th overall, and say "well Turner only shot 1 for 5 in the one tourney game he played with".
The Kid from Belgium that plays for a German team?
Born in Belgium. Grew up in France.
. The 18-year-old from France first appeared on NBA radar screens at a Basketball Without Borders event during All-Star Weekend in 2015, where he was the most impressive prospect among a huge group of international players that included future Bucks lottery pick Thon Maker. However, unlike most elite international prospects, Ntilikina never played at the Nike Hoop Summit, where he would have gotten the chance to compete against the top American players in his age group, the same guys whom he is currently jockeying with for draft position in the upcoming lottery. Link - ( New Window )
The Kid from Belgium that plays for a German team?
Nice attempt to "correct" me but no, he's considered a French prospect.
Exclusive DraftExpress footage of French point guard Frank Ntilikina from 2016 Basketball Without Borders
Frank Bryan Ntilikina (born 28 July 1998) is a French professional basketball player for SIG Strasbourg of the LNB Pro A.
Frank Ntilikina is an international French basketball player who is currently projected to be drafted top 10
When it comes to a replacement for point guard Tony Parker, it seems that France might already have his replacement in mind. That player is 18-year-old point guard Frank Ntilikina, who stands as arguably the best point guard in the stacked 2017 NBA Draft class. Standing 65 with a 611 wingspan, Ntilikina is a point guard that combines an imposing frame with an excellent skill-set.
The Kid from Belgium that plays for a German team?
Yes.
He's trying to "correct" me calling him Frenchy. That he is a French national born in Belgium. Poor job though. He's French and expected to replace Parker on the French national team.
Some in the French sports media have invoked Tony Parker, the French point guard for the San Antonio Spurs, as a model a facile comparison, in the same way that every good, young soccer midfielder in France is prematurely anointed the next Zinedine Zidane. Still, with Parker, 34, in the autumn of his career, there has been an impulse to find the nations next basketball superstar.
Collet, known as a sage tactician and teacher, said the conversation about Ntilikina and Parker frustrated him, given the vast differences between the players, whom he knows well. Nevertheless, he volunteered some points for the sake of comparison: Ntilikina, he said, is a smarter player and better shooter than Parker was at 18. He said Parker back then was faster and more aggressive and was a better one-on-one player. Link - ( New Window )
don't want to draft him but he has a similar story to KP. Grew up listening to American Hip hop so while he does have an accent he's fluent in English. KP speaks English at a higher level but language barrier won't be an issue for him.
went back and looked at a bunch of KP pre-draft stuff, nothing too crazy but Begley actually said the Knicks were trying to find a way to trade up for Payne so clearly someone internally liked him pretty highly. He's had an awful season but he's only 22. Hopefully the Knicks have a plan for a guy LIKE that or move LIKE that if the right PG isn't there when they pick.
I've seen on him, he reminds me of a George Hill type of PG. Not an explosive athlete, but can shoot and play PnR. Probably won't be an 8-9 assist guy but pretty solid. Good defensive potential.
went back and looked at a bunch of KP pre-draft stuff, nothing too crazy but Begley actually said the Knicks were trying to find a way to trade up for Payne so clearly someone internally liked him pretty highly. He's had an awful season but he's only 22. Hopefully the Knicks have a plan for a guy LIKE that or move LIKE that if the right PG isn't there when they pick.
I wouldn't give up anything of value for him. Maybe 2nd rounders. I understand the intrigue but I think he's a scorer first and foremost. Probably a 6th man. Never struck me as a good playmaker or defender.
I've seen on him, he reminds me of a George Hill type of PG. Not an explosive athlete, but can shoot and play PnR. Probably won't be an 8-9 assist guy but pretty solid. Good defensive potential.
Same impression I get. I don't like him enough to want him where we likely pick 7-8 but I'm going to assume we like him until it's somehow proven otherwise. I don't think the upside is massive. If you liked him over Fox I could see it, I don't see how anyone could take him over the other 3.
RAIN I stand corrected and apologize. Tony Parker was also born in Belgium and raised in France. Parker is actually legit half Dutch (unlike Ntilikina) who is technically "Rwandan". But basically both guys were born in Belgium and moved to France at a very young age.
Im not at all sure we really are. He has no experience doing that. I dont think he did any of the live game scouting on 4 of the 5 picks so far, since they're Euros, and maybe even not Cle.
I hope they are paying for that because if not, what are they paying him to do? Riley Buford and other big GMs do it. Why not Phil? Is he going to attend the combine this year?
He's more a explosive athlete and all around offensive
player than Rip. I think he's ahead of Crawford at this time of their development because he's more efficient.
Basically, if he was a few inches taller, there would be very few questions about him. Aside from his height, I'm bothered by the fact he doesn't put up much in the non-scoring categories despite being a good passer and ball handler. Maybe that's a function of the offense, but he could at least grab some more boards.
I like him... he's definitely a consideration from pick 6 on.
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
some of the metrics love Kyle Anderson (was it Greg who loved him?). I know it's not a great idea to judge players on limited minutes but he's a local kid. Maybe when his contract is up we can pry him away.
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
some of the metrics love Kyle Anderson (was it Greg who loved him?). I know it's not a great idea to judge players on limited minutes but he's a local kid. Maybe when his contract is up we can pry him away.
The Knicks haven't ruled out potentially re-signing Rose. Rose has talked about being uncomfortable in the Knicks' triangle offense several times over the course of the season.
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
Hadnt seen that report. I think he's making a big mistake.
my original thought at all but the more I think about it the more I think the dream spot (being realistic) to send Melo is Washington. Ascending team, Melo has ties to the area, they have Oubre (he has not been good but was the #15 pick in 2015 and gets + marks for his defense). They wouldn't be able to send us a 1st until 2019 but that's still sooner than LAC/CLE
That is a better offer than anything else we have heard and better than anything the Cavs/LAC could offer barring a change of heart on Love or Griffin. Neither one can trade a pick until 2022 and neither even has an "Oubre" to offer. If that's a "no way" then don't expect Melo to be traded.
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
Hadnt seen that report. I think he's making a big mistake.
I don't agree with his decision, but he's a special talent.
Davis is graduating so he can play center with some more spacing. I don't know how next draft compares to this in terms of top end talent but he can easily by a top 5 pick if his jump shot is more polished.
RE: Don't think tourney games should be weighted more
heavily than any regular season games against good teams.
You weight tourney games more you do things like turn down a Nets pick for frank Kaminsky, take Okafor top 5 and Winslow top 10, take Burke 6th overall, and say "well Turner only shot 1 for 5 in the one tourney game he played with".
IIRC, Okafor was seen as the likely top pick until the league tournaments and the NCAAs.
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
I don't think so, no.
If your team really wants Melo wait a year and sign him.
years top end could be pretty nice. Doncic (being touted as maybe the best Euro prospect ever), Ayton, Porter Jr., Carter, Bomba
Better than Darko!
I've always had a morbid fascination with Darko and to this day believe if he actually loved the game he could have been a star. I think he had the physical gifts to really be something pretty special. Didn't work out. Doncic looks amazing and Austin Green (who was touting Willy before we took him) is absolutely enamored with Doncic.
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
More than likely, no they can't. He dictates where he goes. Cavs and LAC don't have any established or even decent young prospects/kids and no picks to trade until 2021. Boston didn't seem all that interested so basically your hopes lay with Magic Johnson giving something up for Melo (doubtful) or Melo expanding his list of teams to other places (Washington likely being more realistic than some other spots at least on his end).
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
Im saying 1) Melo still very much limits our options with the NTC, and 2) I'd take this to have Melo off the roster. I no longer think having him around makes sense. It's not that he prevents us from tanking hard next year, it's that his lack of d and ball movement will impair development. It's time to make this KP's team (unless we get Fultz/Ball).
Oubre is a piece, and a #1 is another piece. Neither is a great piece but they're also not those guys with the wrestling names from LAC, who are even less of a piece. I wouldnt bet on Oubre ever being a starting SG because he has never heard of passing. But he can be a productive piece on a good team. And you can trade him ASAP if you want, probably for a #1 (he's got 2015 THJR value at least, right?).
love to rag on Winslow here...what's the difference between him and Oubre?
I'd rather have Winslow than Oubre.
I just don't understand the premise of it.
You're gonna trade young assets for Melo, implying you're trying to win now. Which means you would trade for Melo to extend him, not just for one year.
Porter is going to get a max deal. Melo will be making in the $25M/yr range. Beal and wall are max guys. Gortat is making a lot of money.
Is it really worth giving up young assets to rely on Melo to put you over cleveland? Washington would probably have a tax bill damn near clevelands with Melo on the team.
even think there is tangible value to not having the bad stink/habits of Melo/Rose around a young, or trying to go younger team. I knock Noah but the guy works, Lee works, the "bench mob" try their best, work. It may even make sense to see if you can coax a West, Haslem type to come in simply to work hard and be professionals.
has outstanding 3 and D potential. The D is there, he just needs to bulk up. The 3 isnt there yet but it isnt broken and it was fine in college.
Problem is that a lot of these 3 and D guys hit their stride near the end of their rookie deal, or later. So you may be just developing him for someone else. But say you get Smith, trade for Oubre, Oubre is looking like a budding 3 and D guy 2 years from now. That is certainly the makings of a team, with KP, Willy, and the 2018 and 2019 #1s.
even think there is tangible value to not having the bad stink/habits of Melo/Rose around a young, or trying to go younger team. I knock Noah but the guy works, Lee works, the "bench mob" try their best, work. It may even make sense to see if you can coax a West, Haslem type to come in simply to work hard and be professionals.
This is where I mostly am. I wont give Melo away. But I recognize a value in not having him as the on court leader. Doesnt defend or move the ball. Do you really need a shotmaker here in the next few years anyway? Dont you want KP working thru what it takes get the ball with 4 seconds left and no good option?
like the idea of Sergio Rodriguez because triangle or not, I want the focus to be moved to developing KP, whomever we draft this year and Willy. That should be the 2018 goal above all others. You won't see me crying about 30 wins next season if it goes toward developing our young players properly.
KP may not be fully ready to be the team leader he certainly has the attributes to be that. He has Noah and Lee, he has Lance Thomas who is considered a high quality guy. It's not like this team is full of knuckleheads/jerks. They just happen to have poison at the head of the snake.
I'd rather trade Melo for a bag of used socks than Winslow
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
I don't think so, no.
If your team really wants Melo wait a year and sign him.
That isnt much of a solution. Washington is ready to compete now. Moreover, I doubt Melo opts out. 29 million, 32 million if he gets traded. Is he getting that on the market?
Every time I see him he's acting like a tough guy/jerk.
There's a bunch of guys I feel that way about unless they're on your team.
I couldn't stand Noah on the Bulls. Everything about him pissed me off. But you want that guy on your team.
Same thing with Justin Anderson. He's a dick but he makes winning plays.
Everything about Oubre screams shooter to me, just hasn't worked out so far. He was very up and down and college. He's a better slasher than people might think.
seems like a plausible plan for Paul George and LAL. Although one fraught with risk.
Wait a year for Melo to WAS seems like less of a plan. IF you want him, pay a few shekels for him now. Dont waste a year of Wall and Beal. (of course they may have zero interest in Melo -- it was thrown out there as a landing spot).
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
I don't think so, no.
If your team really wants Melo wait a year and sign him.
That isnt much of a solution. Washington is ready to compete now. Moreover, I doubt Melo opts out. 29 million, 32 million if he gets traded. Is he getting that on the market?
Washington is ready to compete now, but what's the urgency? They're ready to compete for the next 6-7 years. Why shift everything onto Melo's timeline?
Also how are salaries going to work? The Knicks would have to take on Mahinimi and Morris too. Morris wouldn't be so bad though, might be an asset. I'd hate to project his brother onto him, but if Marcus can play the 3 why can't Markieff? I think he was considered the better athlete anyways.
seems like a plausible plan for Paul George and LAL. Although one fraught with risk.
Wait a year for Melo to WAS seems like less of a plan. IF you want him, pay a few shekels for him now. Dont waste a year of Wall and Beal. (of course they may have zero interest in Melo -- it was thrown out there as a landing spot).
Wouldn't be surprised if they have 0 interest in Melo. I don't understand why run this team back for the next 6-7 years isn't a plausible plan.
Maybe Oubre does pan out for them (or hit on another pick) and he becomes a solid starter at the 3 with porter at the 4.
I always liked him better off the bench at UVA because he would come in and instantly get the whole team fired up with a dunk or a block or something. Pure energy. Wish he could just fix his shot from bad to acceptable, because he'll stay in the league a long time if he does. He needs to go see whoever it is that fixed Brogdon's 3pt shot last summer because Brogs has been better in Milwaukee than he was in college (36% to 40%).
I always liked him better off the bench at UVA because he would come in and instantly get the whole team fired up with a dunk or a block or something. Pure energy. Wish he could just fix his shot from bad to acceptable, because he'll stay in the league a long time if he does. He needs to go see whoever it is that fixed Brogdon's 3pt shot last summer because Brogs has been better in Milwaukee than he was in college (36% to 40%).
If he fixes his shot, philly got themselves a Jae Crowder.
think any decent package i.e. Oubre + a # 1 wouldn't get it done for Melo.
Well he's had a rough year, and the Whiz could use some cheap talent.
Indeed, resign Porter and they're at the tax theshold. They cant trade Melo for Oubre and a pick. It would have to include Mahinmi and Morris or maybe Smith. I wouldnt do that. I dont want Mahinmi.
I've been saying it for awhile now but I really think the Melo situation ends with him getting bought out. Unless your taking back a lot of long term money, there's no options.
I agree that, at his best, potentially Jackson could be a Pippen type.
Could. But he's probably not the top dog on a championship team. Without the two guards Kansas wouldn't be going anywhere.
Ball is a taller Kidd, with a shot already. Fultz is tough to come up with a comp, maybe pre-injury Roy? Those two will be gone. If Jackson is gone too, then I want Smith.
I think Smith will be better than Bledsoe. Monk could be Louis Williams or Eric Gordon, but I think he'll show more of his dribble-drive game in the NBA.
I am not a fan of Isaac's. I'd rather have Tatum, but if Jackson is gone I'd rather have a guard.
With the exception of a maybe 25-33% of #1 overalls
it's almost impossible to project a kids as a potential #1 on a title team. Jackson is a guy I could see getting there. Probably has an easier path than say a Ball (really, true PGs tend not to be the leader of a title team).
I'd describe Markelle Fultz as a rich man's Damian Lillard.
(Consider that Lillard is an All-Star caliber player to begin with.) Their games are similar, except Fultz is bigger and better in every way with the exception of foul shooting.
RE: I'd describe Markelle Fultz as a rich man's Damian Lillard.
(Consider that Lillard is an All-Star caliber player to begin with.) Their games are similar, except Fultz is bigger and better in every way with the exception of foul shooting.
he can beat King Kong one-on-one. Lonzo seems like such a cool, collected dude, so different from his crazy dad.
Fox definitely made himself a lot of money last night. He also looked just as tall as Ball, definitely longer. I wonder if Ball will really measure 6-6.
Can you win in the NBA today with a guard who simply has no range?
the only place he cant shoot from is 3..
westbrook and wall both came into the league with no shot
"However, Foxs free throw shooting numbers havent translated to jumpers closer to the basket than the 3-point line, either. According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, Fox is in the 4th percentile of spot-up shooters around the country and in the 12th percentile of guys who shoot off the dribble" Link - ( New Window )
He isn't exactly an efficient mid range shooter in the NBA (shooting sub-40% from anywhere beyond 3 feet). He also is on Westbrook's level in terms of speed/explosiveness and CP3s leveling terms of vision/passing.
Fox is a good athlete but he's not exactly on the level of those two. Not many human beings are.
He isn't exactly an efficient mid range shooter in the NBA (shooting sub-40% from anywhere beyond 3 feet). He also is on Westbrook's level in terms of speed/explosiveness and CP3s leveling terms of vision/passing.
Fox is a good athlete but he's not exactly on the level of those two. Not many human beings are.
i am not saying he is but i am just giving examples of 2 players who had no jumpshot and improved..
foxs jumper has improved as the season has gone on..
i still have him 4th behind fulz smith and ball but he has gotten closer
Fox opened eyes last night, unless you watch every UK game or
are in their practices, he showed new aspects of his game most haven't seen before.
He was a top 5 recruit, ahead of Fultz and Monk. He IS a high level athlete. Like I said, with these UK kids you have no idea what they are capable of sometimes. Fox mixtape - ( New Window )
are in their practices, he showed new aspects of his game most haven't seen before.
He was a top 5 recruit, ahead of Fultz and Monk. He IS a high level athlete. Like I said, with these UK kids you have no idea what they are capable of sometimes. Fox mixtape - ( New Window )
He is a great athlete. Just comparing him to wall and Westbrook is unfair. Those are far and away the two most athletic PGs in the league and quite possibly all time.
Care to share here lol?
That threw me off. If you could guarantee me someone becoming Iggy I'd take that #2 in almost any draft (I'll save #1 with the caveat that there are some generational players like Davis, Lebron, KAT, etc). But otherwise I'd take Iggy at #1 in some drafts as well. Maybe even this draft. Maybe.
The draft is a fun time filled with hope and all that shit, but I think people need to temper expectations.
Like so what if Markannen is a shittier KP? That doesn't help for comparison sake to other prospects. I'd take a poor mans KP over a Dennis Schroeder, for instance.
Quote:
after I wrote a paragraph on the risk/reward of Markkanen! lol
Care to share here lol?
Well I posted this tweet
"Fran FraschillaVerified account @franfraschilla 2h2 hours ago
More
It was strangely difficult for high lottery pick Lauri Markkanen to get off clean look last night. Credit athletic, tough XU D. Interesting."
Which is sort of the quandary with Markkanen. His shot is absolutely beautiful. Release, rotation, even if he were 6'5 and not 7 feet that would be a pretty shot. That said, there are valid concerns in regard to his ability to create space. He doesn't have to beat guys off the dribble. How many Kevin Durant's are there. people focus on the rare highlight where a 7 footer crosses someone over and dunks but that's not the norm.
Just creating space and creating enough room to get his shot off. I don't "love" Markkanen for the Knicks, don't love the fit and I think these are real concerns but the guy can play. I have a hard time believing he's going be Steve Novak. I also think it highlights how unusual KP is. Considering his size his quickness is pretty remarkable.
But then we read them high on Monk/Frenchy and it makes me question if they would even know the "better" players. Imagine them taking Frenchy over Smith because of his triangle fit...
That threw me off. If you could guarantee me someone becoming Iggy I'd take that #2 in almost any draft (I'll save #1 with the caveat that there are some generational players like Davis, Lebron, KAT, etc). But otherwise I'd take Iggy at #1 in some drafts as well. Maybe even this draft. Maybe.
The draft is a fun time filled with hope and all that shit, but I think people need to temper expectations.
Like so what if Markannen is a shittier KP? That doesn't help for comparison sake to other prospects. I'd take a poor mans KP over a Dennis Schroeder, for instance.
I think Iggy would be a terrible result for a #1 overall pick.
BBref has out chance at DRAFTING top 5 at just 37.2%. Basically, 20% to win a lottery pick, 70% to pick 5-8.
Link - ( New Window )
The only argument for not wanting him on the Knicks is redundancy.
I honestly don't see the Knicks winning more than one more game.
I think Iggy would be a terrible result for a #1 overall pick.
No way. Iggy averaged 20-5-5 at his peak. Great defender too. Look it wouldn't be the greatest result ever but it sure wouldn't suck.
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and heard someone say Josh Jackson could be an Iggy-type player, but would you really want that with a top 3 pick?
That threw me off. If you could guarantee me someone becoming Iggy I'd take that #2 in almost any draft (I'll save #1 with the caveat that there are some generational players like Davis, Lebron, KAT, etc). But otherwise I'd take Iggy at #1 in some drafts as well. Maybe even this draft. Maybe.
The draft is a fun time filled with hope and all that shit, but I think people need to temper expectations.
Like so what if Markannen is a shittier KP? That doesn't help for comparison sake to other prospects. I'd take a poor mans KP over a Dennis Schroeder, for instance.
I think Iggy would be a terrible result for a #1 overall pick.
That's 100% i said #2 with the caveat at 1. The guy said it would be a bad result for a "top 3" pick, which I staunchly disagree with. Iggy would be a better result than like 15-20% of the #1 overall picks of the last two decades.
He could go anywhere from 4-10 and it wouldn't be a shock.
He won't get past the Lakers, so they have to pray the Lakers drop below them.
Reports: Phil Jackson attending Shaq statue ceremony, Magic Johnson missing it to scout UCLA-Kentucky
Also, I really wonder whether treating tournament games as the be all and end all of scouting makes sense. These kids play 30-40+ games a year.
if true, that's even worse. But IMO their failures have been a team effort.
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thing doesn't bother me. Anyone who's been paying attention knows that Mills is running the team.
Also, I really wonder whether treating tournament games as the be all and end all of scouting makes sense. These kids play 30-40+ games a year.
Attending the statute ceremony isn't a huge deal, but do you think Phil has scouted one college game in person this year? Watching a player in person is different than watching on TV. Your paying Phil for basketball mind, Id love to see him use it.
He scouted Okafor, Russell, WCS, Towns, Lyles, Booker in person for sure. Almost certainly more.
Plus Plus atheleticism with a handle, a shot, and an unselfish playmaker.
He's Khawai Leonard that is further along at a younger age.
You weight tourney games more you do things like turn down a Nets pick for frank Kaminsky, take Okafor top 5 and Winslow top 10, take Burke 6th overall, and say "well Turner only shot 1 for 5 in the one tourney game he played with".
Born in Belgium. Grew up in France.
. The 18-year-old from France first appeared on NBA radar screens at a Basketball Without Borders event during All-Star Weekend in 2015, where he was the most impressive prospect among a huge group of international players that included future Bucks lottery pick Thon Maker. However, unlike most elite international prospects, Ntilikina never played at the Nike Hoop Summit, where he would have gotten the chance to compete against the top American players in his age group, the same guys whom he is currently jockeying with for draft position in the upcoming lottery.
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Nice attempt to "correct" me but no, he's considered a French prospect.
Exclusive DraftExpress footage of French point guard Frank Ntilikina from 2016 Basketball Without Borders
Frank Bryan Ntilikina (born 28 July 1998) is a French professional basketball player for SIG Strasbourg of the LNB Pro A.
Frank Ntilikina is an international French basketball player who is currently projected to be drafted top 10
When it comes to a replacement for point guard Tony Parker, it seems that France might already have his replacement in mind. That player is 18-year-old point guard Frank Ntilikina, who stands as arguably the best point guard in the stacked 2017 NBA Draft class. Standing 65 with a 611 wingspan, Ntilikina is a point guard that combines an imposing frame with an excellent skill-set.
Yes.
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The Kid from Belgium that plays for a German team?
Yes.
He's trying to "correct" me calling him Frenchy. That he is a French national born in Belgium. Poor job though. He's French and expected to replace Parker on the French national team.
Some in the French sports media have invoked Tony Parker, the French point guard for the San Antonio Spurs, as a model a facile comparison, in the same way that every good, young soccer midfielder in France is prematurely anointed the next Zinedine Zidane. Still, with Parker, 34, in the autumn of his career, there has been an impulse to find the nations next basketball superstar.
Collet, known as a sage tactician and teacher, said the conversation about Ntilikina and Parker frustrated him, given the vast differences between the players, whom he knows well. Nevertheless, he volunteered some points for the sake of comparison: Ntilikina, he said, is a smarter player and better shooter than Parker was at 18. He said Parker back then was faster and more aggressive and was a better one-on-one player.
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I wouldn't give up anything of value for him. Maybe 2nd rounders. I understand the intrigue but I think he's a scorer first and foremost. Probably a 6th man. Never struck me as a good playmaker or defender.
Same impression I get. I don't like him enough to want him where we likely pick 7-8 but I'm going to assume we like him until it's somehow proven otherwise. I don't think the upside is massive. If you liked him over Fox I could see it, I don't see how anyone could take him over the other 3.
I'd 100% be open to Williams working on his 3 point shot next season and coming back next year as a top 5 pick.
If you told me the Knicks come away with Isaac and Williams the next two years I'd sign up for that right now.
I really want to get in the top 3. I think there's a big drop off after Fultz/Ball/Jackson
I like Monk a lot. Dynamic scorer, great athlete.
Just was curious, I didn't know he was french.
Just was curious, I didn't know he was french.
RAIN I stand corrected and apologize. Tony Parker was also born in Belgium and raised in France. Parker is actually legit half Dutch (unlike Ntilikina) who is technically "Rwandan". But basically both guys were born in Belgium and moved to France at a very young age.
I hope they are paying for that because if not, what are they paying him to do? Riley Buford and other big GMs do it. Why not Phil? Is he going to attend the combine this year?
Basically, if he was a few inches taller, there would be very few questions about him. Aside from his height, I'm bothered by the fact he doesn't put up much in the non-scoring categories despite being a good passer and ball handler. Maybe that's a function of the offense, but he could at least grab some more boards.
I like him... he's definitely a consideration from pick 6 on.
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
I thought Greg loved Justin Anderson
I really want to get in the top 3. I think there's a big drop off after Fultz/Ball/Jackson
Well there like a 7% chance of that happening so that's not exactly realistic to rule out everyone else.
As for monk, I like him over all the sub-6'4" shooting guards we were talking about that other day.
Also, Gary harris is another guy for comparison sake. Harris came down to a bar at IU last year. I don't buy his 6'4" listed height.
Monk is more of a scorer, but I worry about him on D.
Ntilikina is very interesting. More like Fox, with some serious wingspan. All three you can't go wrong. Of course, after Jackson is gone though.
The Knicks haven't ruled out potentially re-signing Rose. Rose has talked about being uncomfortable in the Knicks' triangle offense several times over the course of the season.
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he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
Hadnt seen that report. I think he's making a big mistake.
If we are going with UFA's 26 or younger
James Young
Ennis
Derrick Williams himself
Terrence Jones
Mack
A. Payne
Wilcox
T. Robinson
Clark
Montiejunas
That's it
I assume Washington would feel like legit threats to the Cavs with Wall, Beal, Melo, Otto, Gortat, Bogdanovic
That is a better offer than anything else we have heard and better than anything the Cavs/LAC could offer barring a change of heart on Love or Griffin. Neither one can trade a pick until 2022 and neither even has an "Oubre" to offer. If that's a "no way" then don't expect Melo to be traded.
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In comment 13405444 Deej said:
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he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
Hadnt seen that report. I think he's making a big mistake.
I don't agree with his decision, but he's a special talent.
Davis is graduating so he can play center with some more spacing. I don't know how next draft compares to this in terms of top end talent but he can easily by a top 5 pick if his jump shot is more polished.
You weight tourney games more you do things like turn down a Nets pick for frank Kaminsky, take Okafor top 5 and Winslow top 10, take Burke 6th overall, and say "well Turner only shot 1 for 5 in the one tourney game he played with".
IIRC, Okafor was seen as the likely top pick until the league tournaments and the NCAAs.
I'd do that. Melo has damn near 0 trade value. People in Washington should get fired if that even comes up onto the table for them.
Better than Darko!
I don't think so, no.
If your team really wants Melo wait a year and sign him.
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years top end could be pretty nice. Doncic (being touted as maybe the best Euro prospect ever), Ayton, Porter Jr., Carter, Bomba
Better than Darko!
I've always had a morbid fascination with Darko and to this day believe if he actually loved the game he could have been a star. I think he had the physical gifts to really be something pretty special. Didn't work out. Doncic looks amazing and Austin Green (who was touting Willy before we took him) is absolutely enamored with Doncic.
More than likely, no they can't. He dictates where he goes. Cavs and LAC don't have any established or even decent young prospects/kids and no picks to trade until 2021. Boston didn't seem all that interested so basically your hopes lay with Magic Johnson giving something up for Melo (doubtful) or Melo expanding his list of teams to other places (Washington likely being more realistic than some other spots at least on his end).
Im saying 1) Melo still very much limits our options with the NTC, and 2) I'd take this to have Melo off the roster. I no longer think having him around makes sense. It's not that he prevents us from tanking hard next year, it's that his lack of d and ball movement will impair development. It's time to make this KP's team (unless we get Fultz/Ball).
Oubre is a piece, and a #1 is another piece. Neither is a great piece but they're also not those guys with the wrestling names from LAC, who are even less of a piece. I wouldnt bet on Oubre ever being a starting SG because he has never heard of passing. But he can be a productive piece on a good team. And you can trade him ASAP if you want, probably for a #1 (he's got 2015 THJR value at least, right?).
At this point most would take Winslow and a 2019 1st for Melo (not that he'd agree to go to Miami).
I'd rather have Winslow than Oubre.
I just don't understand the premise of it.
You're gonna trade young assets for Melo, implying you're trying to win now. Which means you would trade for Melo to extend him, not just for one year.
Porter is going to get a max deal. Melo will be making in the $25M/yr range. Beal and wall are max guys. Gortat is making a lot of money.
Is it really worth giving up young assets to rely on Melo to put you over cleveland? Washington would probably have a tax bill damn near clevelands with Melo on the team.
Just doesn't make any sense at all.
Problem is that a lot of these 3 and D guys hit their stride near the end of their rookie deal, or later. So you may be just developing him for someone else. But say you get Smith, trade for Oubre, Oubre is looking like a budding 3 and D guy 2 years from now. That is certainly the makings of a team, with KP, Willy, and the 2018 and 2019 #1s.
This is where I mostly am. I wont give Melo away. But I recognize a value in not having him as the on court leader. Doesnt defend or move the ball. Do you really need a shotmaker here in the next few years anyway? Dont you want KP working thru what it takes get the ball with 4 seconds left and no good option?
But Marshall Plumlee is a-Ok?
Expected better from you, Greg.
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I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
I don't think so, no.
If your team really wants Melo wait a year and sign him.
That isnt much of a solution. Washington is ready to compete now. Moreover, I doubt Melo opts out. 29 million, 32 million if he gets traded. Is he getting that on the market?
There's a bunch of guys I feel that way about unless they're on your team.
I couldn't stand Noah on the Bulls. Everything about him pissed me off. But you want that guy on your team.
Same thing with Justin Anderson. He's a dick but he makes winning plays.
Everything about Oubre screams shooter to me, just hasn't worked out so far. He was very up and down and college. He's a better slasher than people might think.
Wait a year for Melo to WAS seems like less of a plan. IF you want him, pay a few shekels for him now. Dont waste a year of Wall and Beal. (of course they may have zero interest in Melo -- it was thrown out there as a landing spot).
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In comment 13405512 ryanmkeane said:
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I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
I don't think so, no.
If your team really wants Melo wait a year and sign him.
That isnt much of a solution. Washington is ready to compete now. Moreover, I doubt Melo opts out. 29 million, 32 million if he gets traded. Is he getting that on the market?
Washington is ready to compete now, but what's the urgency? They're ready to compete for the next 6-7 years. Why shift everything onto Melo's timeline?
Also how are salaries going to work? The Knicks would have to take on Mahinimi and Morris too. Morris wouldn't be so bad though, might be an asset. I'd hate to project his brother onto him, but if Marcus can play the 3 why can't Markieff? I think he was considered the better athlete anyways.
Wait a year for Melo to WAS seems like less of a plan. IF you want him, pay a few shekels for him now. Dont waste a year of Wall and Beal. (of course they may have zero interest in Melo -- it was thrown out there as a landing spot).
Wouldn't be surprised if they have 0 interest in Melo. I don't understand why run this team back for the next 6-7 years isn't a plausible plan.
Maybe Oubre does pan out for them (or hit on another pick) and he becomes a solid starter at the 3 with porter at the 4.
Doesn't make sense to rush things right now.
No, seriously, he's a helluva nice kid off the court.
No, seriously, he's a helluva nice kid off the court.
Wasn't implying anything like that. There are plenty of assholes on the court that are good people off. CP3 for one.
Demarcus Cousins probably epitomizes that.
it would 100% get it done for Melo.
Melo wouldn't get it done for "any decent package".
If he fixes his shot, philly got themselves a Jae Crowder.
Well he's had a rough year, and the Whiz could use some cheap talent.
Indeed, resign Porter and they're at the tax theshold. They cant trade Melo for Oubre and a pick. It would have to include Mahinmi and Morris or maybe Smith. I wouldnt do that. I dont want Mahinmi.
Ball is a taller Kidd, with a shot already. Fultz is tough to come up with a comp, maybe pre-injury Roy? Those two will be gone. If Jackson is gone too, then I want Smith.
I think Smith will be better than Bledsoe. Monk could be Louis Williams or Eric Gordon, but I think he'll show more of his dribble-drive game in the NBA.
I am not a fan of Isaac's. I'd rather have Tatum, but if Jackson is gone I'd rather have a guard.
And neither can play any defense?
Nice! Detroit better get its act together by the time they get to MSG.
He has free reign without Bledsoe. Suns only dressed 8 players.
i dont think you can go wrong with any of the top 4 point guards..
i dont if ball was hurt but hated the way he played tonight
Did he just win ROY? He was 0/1 from 3.
I don't think he's some scrub, I just think there are legit concerns. I'm not gonna sulk in misery if the Knicks take him.
the only place he cant shoot from is 3..
westbrook and wall both came into the league with no shot
Fox definitely made himself a lot of money last night. He also looked just as tall as Ball, definitely longer. I wonder if Ball will really measure 6-6.
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Can you win in the NBA today with a guard who simply has no range?
the only place he cant shoot from is 3..
westbrook and wall both came into the league with no shot
"However, Foxs free throw shooting numbers havent translated to jumpers closer to the basket than the 3-point line, either. According to the tracking numbers at Synergy Sports, Fox is in the 4th percentile of spot-up shooters around the country and in the 12th percentile of guys who shoot off the dribble"
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Fox is a good athlete but he's not exactly on the level of those two. Not many human beings are.
Fox is a good athlete but he's not exactly on the level of those two. Not many human beings are.
i am not saying he is but i am just giving examples of 2 players who had no jumpshot and improved..
foxs jumper has improved as the season has gone on..
i still have him 4th behind fulz smith and ball but he has gotten closer
He was a top 5 recruit, ahead of Fultz and Monk. He IS a high level athlete. Like I said, with these UK kids you have no idea what they are capable of sometimes.
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He was a top 5 recruit, ahead of Fultz and Monk. He IS a high level athlete. Like I said, with these UK kids you have no idea what they are capable of sometimes. Fox mixtape - ( New Window )
He is a great athlete. Just comparing him to wall and Westbrook is unfair. Those are far and away the two most athletic PGs in the league and quite possibly all time.
I posted Fox's highlights on today's Knicks thread, to centralize the discussion.