I've seen on him, he reminds me of a George Hill type of PG. Not an explosive athlete, but can shoot and play PnR. Probably won't be an 8-9 assist guy but pretty solid. Good defensive potential.
Same impression I get. I don't like him enough to want him where we likely pick 7-8 but I'm going to assume we like him until it's somehow proven otherwise. I don't think the upside is massive. If you liked him over Fox I could see it, I don't see how anyone could take him over the other 3.
RAIN I stand corrected and apologize. Tony Parker was also born in Belgium and raised in France. Parker is actually legit half Dutch (unlike Ntilikina) who is technically "Rwandan". But basically both guys were born in Belgium and moved to France at a very young age.
Im not at all sure we really are. He has no experience doing that. I dont think he did any of the live game scouting on 4 of the 5 picks so far, since they're Euros, and maybe even not Cle.
I hope they are paying for that because if not, what are they paying him to do? Riley Buford and other big GMs do it. Why not Phil? Is he going to attend the combine this year?
He's more a explosive athlete and all around offensive
player than Rip. I think he's ahead of Crawford at this time of their development because he's more efficient.
Basically, if he was a few inches taller, there would be very few questions about him. Aside from his height, I'm bothered by the fact he doesn't put up much in the non-scoring categories despite being a good passer and ball handler. Maybe that's a function of the offense, but he could at least grab some more boards.
I like him... he's definitely a consideration from pick 6 on.
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
some of the metrics love Kyle Anderson (was it Greg who loved him?). I know it's not a great idea to judge players on limited minutes but he's a local kid. Maybe when his contract is up we can pry him away.
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
some of the metrics love Kyle Anderson (was it Greg who loved him?). I know it's not a great idea to judge players on limited minutes but he's a local kid. Maybe when his contract is up we can pry him away.
The Knicks haven't ruled out potentially re-signing Rose. Rose has talked about being uncomfortable in the Knicks' triangle offense several times over the course of the season.
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
Hadnt seen that report. I think he's making a big mistake.
my original thought at all but the more I think about it the more I think the dream spot (being realistic) to send Melo is Washington. Ascending team, Melo has ties to the area, they have Oubre (he has not been good but was the #15 pick in 2015 and gets + marks for his defense). They wouldn't be able to send us a 1st until 2019 but that's still sooner than LAC/CLE
That is a better offer than anything else we have heard and better than anything the Cavs/LAC could offer barring a change of heart on Love or Griffin. Neither one can trade a pick until 2022 and neither even has an "Oubre" to offer. If that's a "no way" then don't expect Melo to be traded.
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
Hadnt seen that report. I think he's making a big mistake.
I don't agree with his decision, but he's a special talent.
Davis is graduating so he can play center with some more spacing. I don't know how next draft compares to this in terms of top end talent but he can easily by a top 5 pick if his jump shot is more polished.
RE: Don't think tourney games should be weighted more
heavily than any regular season games against good teams.
You weight tourney games more you do things like turn down a Nets pick for frank Kaminsky, take Okafor top 5 and Winslow top 10, take Burke 6th overall, and say "well Turner only shot 1 for 5 in the one tourney game he played with".
IIRC, Okafor was seen as the likely top pick until the league tournaments and the NCAAs.
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
I don't think so, no.
If your team really wants Melo wait a year and sign him.
years top end could be pretty nice. Doncic (being touted as maybe the best Euro prospect ever), Ayton, Porter Jr., Carter, Bomba
Better than Darko!
I've always had a morbid fascination with Darko and to this day believe if he actually loved the game he could have been a star. I think he had the physical gifts to really be something pretty special. Didn't work out. Doncic looks amazing and Austin Green (who was touting Willy before we took him) is absolutely enamored with Doncic.
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
More than likely, no they can't. He dictates where he goes. Cavs and LAC don't have any established or even decent young prospects/kids and no picks to trade until 2021. Boston didn't seem all that interested so basically your hopes lay with Magic Johnson giving something up for Melo (doubtful) or Melo expanding his list of teams to other places (Washington likely being more realistic than some other spots at least on his end).
I'm not saying Oubre won't turn out to something, he's still 21...but he hasn't exactly shown much his first 2 seasons. So you guys are saying we can't get an established player for Melo?
Im saying 1) Melo still very much limits our options with the NTC, and 2) I'd take this to have Melo off the roster. I no longer think having him around makes sense. It's not that he prevents us from tanking hard next year, it's that his lack of d and ball movement will impair development. It's time to make this KP's team (unless we get Fultz/Ball).
Oubre is a piece, and a #1 is another piece. Neither is a great piece but they're also not those guys with the wrestling names from LAC, who are even less of a piece. I wouldnt bet on Oubre ever being a starting SG because he has never heard of passing. But he can be a productive piece on a good team. And you can trade him ASAP if you want, probably for a #1 (he's got 2015 THJR value at least, right?).
love to rag on Winslow here...what's the difference between him and Oubre?
I'd rather have Winslow than Oubre.
I just don't understand the premise of it.
You're gonna trade young assets for Melo, implying you're trying to win now. Which means you would trade for Melo to extend him, not just for one year.
Porter is going to get a max deal. Melo will be making in the $25M/yr range. Beal and wall are max guys. Gortat is making a lot of money.
Is it really worth giving up young assets to rely on Melo to put you over cleveland? Washington would probably have a tax bill damn near clevelands with Melo on the team.
even think there is tangible value to not having the bad stink/habits of Melo/Rose around a young, or trying to go younger team. I knock Noah but the guy works, Lee works, the "bench mob" try their best, work. It may even make sense to see if you can coax a West, Haslem type to come in simply to work hard and be professionals.
has outstanding 3 and D potential. The D is there, he just needs to bulk up. The 3 isnt there yet but it isnt broken and it was fine in college.
Problem is that a lot of these 3 and D guys hit their stride near the end of their rookie deal, or later. So you may be just developing him for someone else. But say you get Smith, trade for Oubre, Oubre is looking like a budding 3 and D guy 2 years from now. That is certainly the makings of a team, with KP, Willy, and the 2018 and 2019 #1s.
even think there is tangible value to not having the bad stink/habits of Melo/Rose around a young, or trying to go younger team. I knock Noah but the guy works, Lee works, the "bench mob" try their best, work. It may even make sense to see if you can coax a West, Haslem type to come in simply to work hard and be professionals.
This is where I mostly am. I wont give Melo away. But I recognize a value in not having him as the on court leader. Doesnt defend or move the ball. Do you really need a shotmaker here in the next few years anyway? Dont you want KP working thru what it takes get the ball with 4 seconds left and no good option?
like the idea of Sergio Rodriguez because triangle or not, I want the focus to be moved to developing KP, whomever we draft this year and Willy. That should be the 2018 goal above all others. You won't see me crying about 30 wins next season if it goes toward developing our young players properly.
KP may not be fully ready to be the team leader he certainly has the attributes to be that. He has Noah and Lee, he has Lance Thomas who is considered a high quality guy. It's not like this team is full of knuckleheads/jerks. They just happen to have poison at the head of the snake.
I'd rather trade Melo for a bag of used socks than Winslow
Same impression I get. I don't like him enough to want him where we likely pick 7-8 but I'm going to assume we like him until it's somehow proven otherwise. I don't think the upside is massive. If you liked him over Fox I could see it, I don't see how anyone could take him over the other 3.
I'd 100% be open to Williams working on his 3 point shot next season and coming back next year as a top 5 pick.
If you told me the Knicks come away with Isaac and Williams the next two years I'd sign up for that right now.
I really want to get in the top 3. I think there's a big drop off after Fultz/Ball/Jackson
I like Monk a lot. Dynamic scorer, great athlete.
Just was curious, I didn't know he was french.
Just was curious, I didn't know he was french.
RAIN I stand corrected and apologize. Tony Parker was also born in Belgium and raised in France. Parker is actually legit half Dutch (unlike Ntilikina) who is technically "Rwandan". But basically both guys were born in Belgium and moved to France at a very young age.
I hope they are paying for that because if not, what are they paying him to do? Riley Buford and other big GMs do it. Why not Phil? Is he going to attend the combine this year?
Basically, if he was a few inches taller, there would be very few questions about him. Aside from his height, I'm bothered by the fact he doesn't put up much in the non-scoring categories despite being a good passer and ball handler. Maybe that's a function of the offense, but he could at least grab some more boards.
I like him... he's definitely a consideration from pick 6 on.
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
I thought Greg loved Justin Anderson
I really want to get in the top 3. I think there's a big drop off after Fultz/Ball/Jackson
Well there like a 7% chance of that happening so that's not exactly realistic to rule out everyone else.
As for monk, I like him over all the sub-6'4" shooting guards we were talking about that other day.
Also, Gary harris is another guy for comparison sake. Harris came down to a bar at IU last year. I don't buy his 6'4" listed height.
Monk is more of a scorer, but I worry about him on D.
Ntilikina is very interesting. More like Fox, with some serious wingspan. All three you can't go wrong. Of course, after Jackson is gone though.
The Knicks haven't ruled out potentially re-signing Rose. Rose has talked about being uncomfortable in the Knicks' triangle offense several times over the course of the season.
Quote:
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
Hadnt seen that report. I think he's making a big mistake.
If we are going with UFA's 26 or younger
James Young
Ennis
Derrick Williams himself
Terrence Jones
Mack
A. Payne
Wilcox
T. Robinson
Clark
Montiejunas
That's it
I assume Washington would feel like legit threats to the Cavs with Wall, Beal, Melo, Otto, Gortat, Bogdanovic
That is a better offer than anything else we have heard and better than anything the Cavs/LAC could offer barring a change of heart on Love or Griffin. Neither one can trade a pick until 2022 and neither even has an "Oubre" to offer. If that's a "no way" then don't expect Melo to be traded.
Quote:
In comment 13405444 Deej said:
Quote:
he'd be a fool to go back to school. There is no guarantee his draft position is getting better -- I'd bet worse, as his game gets picked apart more and maybe he just flatlines/regresses (common).
He already announced he's staying in school unless you read something where he's keeping his options open.
Hadnt seen that report. I think he's making a big mistake.
I don't agree with his decision, but he's a special talent.
Davis is graduating so he can play center with some more spacing. I don't know how next draft compares to this in terms of top end talent but he can easily by a top 5 pick if his jump shot is more polished.
You weight tourney games more you do things like turn down a Nets pick for frank Kaminsky, take Okafor top 5 and Winslow top 10, take Burke 6th overall, and say "well Turner only shot 1 for 5 in the one tourney game he played with".
IIRC, Okafor was seen as the likely top pick until the league tournaments and the NCAAs.
I'd do that. Melo has damn near 0 trade value. People in Washington should get fired if that even comes up onto the table for them.
Better than Darko!
I don't think so, no.
If your team really wants Melo wait a year and sign him.
Quote:
years top end could be pretty nice. Doncic (being touted as maybe the best Euro prospect ever), Ayton, Porter Jr., Carter, Bomba
Better than Darko!
I've always had a morbid fascination with Darko and to this day believe if he actually loved the game he could have been a star. I think he had the physical gifts to really be something pretty special. Didn't work out. Doncic looks amazing and Austin Green (who was touting Willy before we took him) is absolutely enamored with Doncic.
More than likely, no they can't. He dictates where he goes. Cavs and LAC don't have any established or even decent young prospects/kids and no picks to trade until 2021. Boston didn't seem all that interested so basically your hopes lay with Magic Johnson giving something up for Melo (doubtful) or Melo expanding his list of teams to other places (Washington likely being more realistic than some other spots at least on his end).
Im saying 1) Melo still very much limits our options with the NTC, and 2) I'd take this to have Melo off the roster. I no longer think having him around makes sense. It's not that he prevents us from tanking hard next year, it's that his lack of d and ball movement will impair development. It's time to make this KP's team (unless we get Fultz/Ball).
Oubre is a piece, and a #1 is another piece. Neither is a great piece but they're also not those guys with the wrestling names from LAC, who are even less of a piece. I wouldnt bet on Oubre ever being a starting SG because he has never heard of passing. But he can be a productive piece on a good team. And you can trade him ASAP if you want, probably for a #1 (he's got 2015 THJR value at least, right?).
At this point most would take Winslow and a 2019 1st for Melo (not that he'd agree to go to Miami).
I'd rather have Winslow than Oubre.
I just don't understand the premise of it.
You're gonna trade young assets for Melo, implying you're trying to win now. Which means you would trade for Melo to extend him, not just for one year.
Porter is going to get a max deal. Melo will be making in the $25M/yr range. Beal and wall are max guys. Gortat is making a lot of money.
Is it really worth giving up young assets to rely on Melo to put you over cleveland? Washington would probably have a tax bill damn near clevelands with Melo on the team.
Just doesn't make any sense at all.
Problem is that a lot of these 3 and D guys hit their stride near the end of their rookie deal, or later. So you may be just developing him for someone else. But say you get Smith, trade for Oubre, Oubre is looking like a budding 3 and D guy 2 years from now. That is certainly the makings of a team, with KP, Willy, and the 2018 and 2019 #1s.
This is where I mostly am. I wont give Melo away. But I recognize a value in not having him as the on court leader. Doesnt defend or move the ball. Do you really need a shotmaker here in the next few years anyway? Dont you want KP working thru what it takes get the ball with 4 seconds left and no good option?
But Marshall Plumlee is a-Ok?
Expected better from you, Greg.