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NFT: USMNT vs Honduras - World Cup Qualifying - tonight 10:30p

B in ALB : 3/24/2017 1:36 pm
Well it begins for real tonight - the Bruce Arena Part II era and the road to Russia. Game is in San Jose, hence the late start on FoxSports1. Should be an interesting lineup and everybody's favorite whipping boy Wondo is back and he's gonna poach absolutely zero goals for this team. Looking forward to the game tonight and seeing if the train is back on the tracks.
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Sorry for the 1,000 posts. Home with the kids and three cups of coffee  
Gmen1982 : 3/26/2017 9:34 am : link
.
I'm trying to escape the house myself  
UConn4523 : 3/26/2017 9:38 am : link
going to the kids museum for the 900th time this winter.
In philly?  
Gmen1982 : 3/26/2017 9:43 am : link
.
RE: In philly?  
UConn4523 : 3/26/2017 10:17 am : link
In comment 13406970 Gmen1982 said:
Quote:
.


In CT
RE: Other countries focus everything on the sport  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 3/26/2017 10:18 am : link
In comment 13406954 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
they have a lot more talent to choose from and don't have to fight with the emergence of lacrosse or the main 4 other sports in the US. It just isn't apples to apples. Our talent also plays in college and doesn't go abroad at 18. So unless that changes and the BPL or Bundesliga, etc is interested in our HS prospects, I'm not sure how that would work.


This is the key point, the structure of the US soccer system is different than Europe - there's no high school/college level of play. The academy organization is still in its infancy here, and I think over the next generation it will evolve further.
Becoming too watered down too.  
Gmen1982 : 3/26/2017 10:36 am : link
Some of these academies have b, c, and even d teams. There's pre-academy teams as well. Tab just changed his mind and is letting pre-academy players play on their high school teams. He didn't allow it this past year.
Is there  
Tim in Capital City : 3/26/2017 2:56 pm : link
really a debate about whether players should be playing in MLS vs. top leagues in Europe? Michael Bradley's form dropped coming back to MLS from Italy. It's not hard to see. Some of it was being played out of position by JK, but a big part of it is the speed of the game here just isn't comparable to overseas, and training on a day to day basis isn't as rigorous.

CP is obviously a world class talent and was when he went to Dortmund, but he wouldn't be nearly where he is now if he were toiling in an MLS academy.
RE: Is there  
Jon in NYC : 3/26/2017 3:04 pm : link
In comment 13407185 Tim in Capital City said:
Quote:
really a debate about whether players should be playing in MLS vs. top leagues in Europe? Michael Bradley's form dropped coming back to MLS from Italy. It's not hard to see. Some of it was being played out of position by JK, but a big part of it is the speed of the game here just isn't comparable to overseas, and training on a day to day basis isn't as rigorous.

CP is obviously a world class talent and was when he went to Dortmund, but he wouldn't be nearly where he is now if he were toiling in an MLS academy.


He lost his place at Roma. That's why he left. I'd much rather him be at MLS playing with other Americans than toiling in some second tier European league.
He left  
Tim in Capital City : 3/26/2017 3:09 pm : link
because he was offered more money to play in MLS than he would have been offered elsewhere. There were other offers on the table from mid-table Serie A teams. Bradley wasn't going to play on a second division team. And I don't think there's much question he is a worse player for it.

If the options are playing for a 2nd division team in England vs. MLS, that's one thing. But If an American player can start/get real playing time on a team in England/German/Spain/France/Netherlands, I think they (and our national team) are better for it.
Can we all agree that  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/26/2017 3:28 pm : link
Bradley did not play well.


Why the fuck is he coming all the way back to the cbs to collect the ball?

That shit has to stop. He needs to connect the cbs with the rest of the team. Not be a cb
RE: Can we all agree that  
Go Terps : 3/26/2017 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13407203 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
Bradley did not play well.


Why the fuck is he coming all the way back to the cbs to collect the ball?

That shit has to stop. He needs to connect the cbs with the rest of the team. Not be a cb


What???
Yeah I thought Bradley  
B in ALB : 3/26/2017 5:00 pm : link
Played pretty well despite a few turnovers. He is best deployed exactly where Arena had him.
RE: RE: Can we all agree that  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/26/2017 5:08 pm : link
In comment 13407245 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 13407203 Joey from GlenCove said:


Quote:


Bradley did not play well.


Why the fuck is he coming all the way back to the cbs to collect the ball?

That shit has to stop. He needs to connect the cbs with the rest of the team. Not be a cb



What???



I don't think he played well. Okay obviously he had room score the goal, great. Nice left footed shot.

He misplayed passes and he was not great in a defensive effort, seemed late to challenge(maybe the field). And like i said i wish he'd do a better job of connecting the cbs with the rest of the midfield.






RE: RE: RE: Can we all agree that  
Jon in NYC : 3/26/2017 5:39 pm : link
In comment 13407263 Joey from GlenCove said:
Quote:
In comment 13407245 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 13407203 Joey from GlenCove said:


Quote:


Bradley did not play well.


Why the fuck is he coming all the way back to the cbs to collect the ball?

That shit has to stop. He needs to connect the cbs with the rest of the team. Not be a cb



What???




I don't think he played well. Okay obviously he had room score the goal, great. Nice left footed shot.

He misplayed passes and he was not great in a defensive effort, seemed late to challenge(maybe the field). And like i said i wish he'd do a better job of connecting the cbs with the rest of the midfield.



Usually when a CDM drops to pick up the ball, that's because the CBs are having trouble finding him, not vice versa.
Fine at least he wasn't as bad as Gonzalez  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/27/2017 7:25 am : link
Hopefully the backline will be something like

Villafina ream cameron zusi (Whos left to play defense?)
Jones bradely nagbe
pulsic
dempsey altidore


Crazy how many injuries we have
Tonight I will be re-watching the Greece-Belgium game  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 3/27/2017 8:18 am : link
Really just to decide if the referee truly needs to die. Greeks held Belgium 1-1 in Belgium and had the game with 10 men until the 89th minute when Lukaku scored off of a blatantly illegal corner kick - the ball was 2-3 feet outside the circle.

The ref red-carded two Greeks yet allowed Mertens to pinch a guy's nose (not kidding) and then get called for diving yet produce no card. That plus the near-brawl at the end of the game between Lukaku and Manolas. A lot to take in on a Saturday.
If you watched..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/27/2017 8:26 am : link
that game and thought Bradley played poorly, I really don't know what to say.

The way Bradley was utilized was the exact way he should have been utilized for the past several years under JK, and it is apparent, just from watching this one game, how fucked up JK's system really was.

Having Bradley as the focal point through which the offense is run allowed his skill as a distributor and decision maker shine. In almost all of the critical runs, he started the sequence that led to a score or an excellent opportunity, whether it was getting the ball to Pulisic so he could make a run, or getting a ball to Altidore who then pushed it over to create a chance, etc.

Arena in one game has already opened up the team - and he did that not through magic, but by putting players into the positions and roles they are best suited for. The way Bradley was used is exactly what he's strong at and it showed.
RE: If you watched..  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/27/2017 8:33 am : link
In comment 13407546 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
that game and thought Bradley played poorly, I really don't know what to say.

The way Bradley was utilized was the exact way he should have been utilized for the past several years under JK, and it is apparent, just from watching this one game, how fucked up JK's system really was.

Having Bradley as the focal point through which the offense is run allowed his skill as a distributor and decision maker shine. In almost all of the critical runs, he started the sequence that led to a score or an excellent opportunity, whether it was getting the ball to Pulisic so he could make a run, or getting a ball to Altidore who then pushed it over to create a chance, etc.

Arena in one game has already opened up the team - and he did that not through magic, but by putting players into the positions and roles they are best suited for. The way Bradley was used is exactly what he's strong at and it showed.


Im sorry he did not play well sb nation actually does a great job describing it.

Quote:
Bradley reacts poorly under pressure. His technical ability is not sufficient to receive and move the ball between lines of defenders. Meanwhile, his judgement has centered around being able to see the whole field under limited pressure and waiting either for a run to be made or for an opportunity to drive forward. Even worse, teams realized that they could hound Bradley and paralyze the entire USMNT even when he was moved deeper and deeper into midfield. The result has been the years of poor form we’ve seen in Bradley when he’s with the national team, even as his performances with Toronto FC have improved. In the opening 20-or-so minutes, we saw Honduras do exactly this, with Bradley expectedly suffering. However, the formation, line up, and new instructions from Arena helped change this.


It goes on to say he played better after a tactical change by Arena. Actually a well written article
LINK - ( New Window )
That article..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/27/2017 8:55 am : link
basically sums up what I said.

Arena has put Bradley and the other players in a better position to succeed, and you saw the results of Bradley's distribution and field generalship when Arena utilized the tactics.

Bradley's prime years were wasted by JK, and he's never going to be in the form he once was, but if he continues to be the focal point for distribution, this team will be fine.

That article doesn't say Bradley played poorly - it said he struggled early in the game and then flourished when put into a simplified role.
the article also states  
giants#1 : 3/27/2017 8:58 am : link
Quote:
In short, Bradley was (finally) given a chance to really succeed. He did exactly that, with an excellent goal from distance, decent work distributing the ball, a limited number of turnovers, and recovering the ball a fantastic 13 times.


Was Bradley great? No, but he was far better than under JK and had a good overall game.
RE: That article..  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/27/2017 10:26 am : link
In comment 13407569 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
basically sums up what I said.

Arena has put Bradley and the other players in a better position to succeed, and you saw the results of Bradley's distribution and field generalship when Arena utilized the tactics.

Bradley's prime years were wasted by JK, and he's never going to be in the form he once was, but if he continues to be the focal point for distribution, this team will be fine.

That article doesn't say Bradley played poorly - it said he struggled early in the game and then flourished when put into a simplified role.


he was clearly played out of position during jks tenure until the very end. SAD!

Anyway hopefully during the goldcup arena will look to the youth. I'd like to see acosta start


We have a window..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/27/2017 10:33 am : link
right now where we can probably eke out the final years of Bradley and Dempsey before bringing in too many of the younger players for Russia.

After that, you'll see a new makeup of the team, IMO.

You'll have a full turnover with Cameron, Jones, Beasley, Besler, Wondo too far past their times. Some of those guys might not even make it to Russia.
Howard will likely be done after Russia too  
giants#1 : 3/27/2017 10:37 am : link
Hopefully Wondo doesn't even make it there.

The transitions already started with Pulisic, Wood, FJ, Yedlin, Brooks and others.
I don't know if Howard..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/27/2017 10:52 am : link
makes it to Russia, although a goalie can play longer. He'll be almost 40 then. Beasley will be 37. You could see Howard, Beasley and Wondo all off the roster by Russia.

Jones might not make it, although I think he'll be there. Zusi is probably a slim chance.

Depends on if arena wants to have a veteran team sprinkled with youth or go predominantly with youth. 6 months ago, I'd have said Dempsey would be unlikely to play (as well as Bradley), but I think those two, assuming health is fine, will be there.
Bradley was fantastic  
Go Terps : 3/27/2017 11:11 am : link
He provided cover that allowed both fullbacks to push forward with ease. Pulisic will get the plaudits but Bradley's was the key performance on the night.

As for Jermaine Jones, he should never play for USMNT again. There's only one position where his lack of discipline doesn't unbalance the team, and that position is firmly Pulisic's.

RE: I don't know if Howard..  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/27/2017 11:25 am : link
In comment 13407748 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
makes it to Russia, although a goalie can play longer. He'll be almost 40 then. Beasley will be 37. You could see Howard, Beasley and Wondo all off the roster by Russia.

Jones might not make it, although I think he'll be there. Zusi is probably a slim chance.

Depends on if arena wants to have a veteran team sprinkled with youth or go predominantly with youth. 6 months ago, I'd have said Dempsey would be unlikely to play (as well as Bradley), but I think those two, assuming health is fine, will be there.


a veteran team hurt the US in 2006. anyway i bet howard is there if in form.

Horvath - should have been on this team, cant say im following him but hopefully he will play in the EPL or another top league. hes currently in blegium on the bench
Bill Hamid  
jv : 3/27/2017 11:35 am : link
is the guy that could take over the reigns.. He just can't seem to stay healthy when it's time for national duty. Hopefully he'll have better health and luck this year.
RE: Bill Hamid  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/27/2017 11:50 am : link
In comment 13407812 jv said:
Quote:
is the guy that could take over the reigns.. He just can't seem to stay healthy when it's time for national duty. Hopefully he'll have better health and luck this year.


i think you see hamid, horvath, rimando/bimgham/yarbrough at the gold cup.
I'd  
Jon in NYC : 3/27/2017 12:00 pm : link
love to kick Jermaine Jones to the curb and give Acosta some real minutes
roster changes for Panama (from USSF website)  
Del Shofner : 3/27/2017 12:46 pm : link
Paul Arriola Added to MNT World Cup Qualifying Roster

MNT Mar 25, 2017


CHICAGO (March 25, 2017) – U.S. Men’s National Team head coach Bruce Arena has added midfielder Paul Arriola to the roster ahead of Tuesday’s World Cup Qualifying match in Panama. The Club Tijuana midfielder will join the USMNT in San Jose, Calif., prior to Saturday night’s departure for Panama City.

Additionally, defenders John Brooks and Michael Orozco, midfielder Sebastian Lletget and forward Jordan Morris have been released from camp.

After scoring the opening goal, Lletget was forced to leave Friday’s 6-0 win against Honduras in the 18th minute after suffering a left foot injury and will be further evaluated in Los Angeles. Having dealt with a sinus infection during the week, Brooks also departed in the 70th minute.
Morris (right ankle) and Orozco (right knee) carried injuries into Friday’s game against Honduras and did not dress for the match.

With the changes, the MNT roster now stands at 23 players ahead of the team’s departure for Panama City on Saturday night. The U.S. takes on Panama on Tuesday, March 28 at Estadio Rommel Fernandez in Panama City, live at 10 p.m. ET on beIN Sports, Telemundo and NBC Universo.

Updated Roster by Position (Club; WCQ Caps/Goals):

GOALKEEPERS (3): David Bingham (San Jose Earthquakes; 0/0), Tim Howard (Colorado Rapids; 34/0), Nick Rimando (Real Salt Lake; 0/0)
DEFENDERS (8): DaMarcus Beasley (Houston Dynamo; 33/6), Matt Besler (Sporting Kansas City; 10/1), Geoff Cameron (Stoke City/ENG; 20/2), Omar Gonzalez (Pachuca/MEX; 13/0), Tim Ream (Fulham/ENG; 3/0), Jorge Villafaña (Santos Laguna/MEX; 1/0), Walker Zimmerman (FC Dallas; 0/0), Graham Zusi (Sporting Kansas City; 16/3)
MIDFIELDERS (9): Kellyn Acosta (FC Dallas; 1/0), Paul Arriola (Club Tijuana/MEX; 1/1), Alejandro Bedoya (Philadelphia Union; 7/0), Michael Bradley (Toronto FC/CAN; 32/6), Jermaine Jones (LA Galaxy; 16/0), Sacha Kljestan (New York Red Bulls; 18/2), Dax McCarty (Chicago Fire; 0/0), Darlington Nagbe (Portland Timbers; 4/0), Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund/GER; 6/3)
FORWARDS (3): Jozy Altidore (Toronto FC/CAN; 35/16), Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders FC; 37/17), Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes; 0/0)
Arena gets it right where Klinsmann did not  
Go Terps : 3/28/2017 2:41 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Arena gets it right where Klinsmann did not  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 3/28/2017 7:45 am : link
In comment 13408722 Go Terps said:
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )


Arena's got a right to push his overall point here, but he's only half-right. Pulisic's pace and style of play are inherently German and Dortmund. Yes, he had a good base coming out of the Academy and our players coming up are overall better than they used to be, but Pulisic got exponentially better being at Dortmund.
RE: RE: Arena gets it right where Klinsmann did not  
Jon in NYC : 3/28/2017 7:46 am : link
In comment 13408763 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 13408722 Go Terps said:


Quote:


. Link - ( New Window )



Arena's got a right to push his overall point here, but he's only half-right. Pulisic's pace and style of play are inherently German and Dortmund. Yes, he had a good base coming out of the Academy and our players coming up are overall better than they used to be, but Pulisic got exponentially better being at Dortmund.


That's a very very difficult case to prove.
RE: RE: RE: Arena gets it right where Klinsmann did not  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 3/28/2017 7:51 am : link
In comment 13408765 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13408763 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


In comment 13408722 Go Terps said:


Quote:


. Link - ( New Window )



Arena's got a right to push his overall point here, but he's only half-right. Pulisic's pace and style of play are inherently German and Dortmund. Yes, he had a good base coming out of the Academy and our players coming up are overall better than they used to be, but Pulisic got exponentially better being at Dortmund.



That's a very very difficult case to prove.


The US system bears the burden of proof, not Dortmund. The club's track record speaks for itself.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Arena gets it right where Klinsmann did not  
Joey from GlenCove : 3/28/2017 7:56 am : link
In comment 13408767 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
Quote:
In comment 13408765 Jon in NYC said:


Quote:


In comment 13408763 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:


Quote:


In comment 13408722 Go Terps said:


Quote:


. Link - ( New Window )



Arena's got a right to push his overall point here, but he's only half-right. Pulisic's pace and style of play are inherently German and Dortmund. Yes, he had a good base coming out of the Academy and our players coming up are overall better than they used to be, but Pulisic got exponentially better being at Dortmund.



That's a very very difficult case to prove.



The US system bears the burden of proof, not Dortmund. The club's track record speaks for itself.


He's played in Germany since he was 16 so for 2 years.... he clearly was a great player when he left not raw like others.

Giuseppe Rossi on the other hand was developed in @ parma. he left here when he was 11/12
BHE  
Go Terps : 3/28/2017 11:04 am : link
So Pulisic went from just another prospect to a diamond in two years? I don't think so.

I don't know why people insist on shitting on soccer in the US.
RE: BHE  
Jon in NYC : 3/28/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13409022 Go Terps said:
Quote:
So Pulisic went from just another prospect to a diamond in two years? I don't think so.

I don't know why people insist on shitting on soccer in the US.


It's the hip trendy thing to do. The MLS isn't "cool".
I want players that are capable to play against the best competition.  
Gmen1982 : 3/28/2017 12:33 pm : link
That's not in the MLS. They don't benefit from staying in the MLS. There's no gain from the 'style" or anything else. I hope the MLS eventually gets better players. Right now it's full of formidable players but you can clearly see a difference between those games and the good European leagues.
We have players that are athletic and technical enough to become  
Gmen1982 : 3/28/2017 12:43 pm : link
great players. They lack the mental aspect to play under pressure and see the second or third pass. That's the main difference between us and the really good teams. The lack of movement off of the ball and inability to play possession under pressure.

RE: BHE  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 3/28/2017 12:47 pm : link
In comment 13409022 Go Terps said:
Quote:
So Pulisic went from just another prospect to a diamond in two years? I don't think so.

I don't know why people insist on shitting on soccer in the US.


I don't see where I'm shitting on US Soccer. I said Arena has his point but it's not the whole picture. While the academy gave him a good base, this specific club has been vital in Pulisic's growth. Look at Emerson Hyndman as an example. Same generation, similar talent, but he went to a club with a crappy player development system. Dortmund is essentially the new Ajax in this regard.

You guys are so dug in with MLS that you take any counterpoint as a slight. Almost ALL of the U-20 players are in the MLS system. It will have its chance to prove its worth.
If the US  
Metnut : 3/28/2017 12:48 pm : link
wins tonight would they be back in a good spot to make the world cup? Would a loss be devastating and have them on the ropes? Seems like a loss and they'd be in real danger of falling to the play-in, but I'm pretty ignorant on how all of this works.
RE: If the US  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 12:54 pm : link
In comment 13409245 Metnut said:
Quote:
wins tonight would they be back in a good spot to make the world cup? Would a loss be devastating and have them on the ropes? Seems like a loss and they'd be in real danger of falling to the play-in, but I'm pretty ignorant on how all of this works.


Since they're facing Panama who currently sits 3rd in the hex, a win would put the US into 3rd after Mexico and likely Costa Rica (a CR loss could get US into 2nd).

A loss wouldn't end their chances, but just make it significantly harder to avoid the play-in game. That said, tonight is only game 4 of 10.

Also rooting for Honduras (vs CR) and T&T (vs Mexico) tonight.
Link - ( New Window )
the 6-0 drubbing  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 12:55 pm : link
was huge in that it almost eliminated the USA's huge goal differential due to the CR loss. GD is important since it's the tie breaker if teams are tied in points.
GMen  
Go Terps : 3/28/2017 12:55 pm : link
I'm sorry but that's just not accurate. How much European soccer do you watch outside the Champions League? How much MLS?

Did you watch the 2016 Euros? It was complete dogshit. Did you watch the 2016 Copa America? Far, far better soccer being played.

European soccer isn't as healthy as you think it is. This is especially true for England, who right now can't field a better national team than the US.
4  
Jon in NYC : 3/28/2017 1:05 pm : link
of the top 6 in the Hex make it. Sitting in 3rd is pretty good, especially having played the two hardest games already.
RE: 4  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13409282 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
of the top 6 in the Hex make it. Sitting in 3rd is pretty good, especially having played the two hardest games already.


Doesn't the 4th go on to a 'play-in' game against Asia? Likely a team the USA should beat, but you never know.

RE: GMen  
Gmen1982 : 3/28/2017 2:02 pm : link
In comment 13409264 Go Terps said:
Quote:
I'm sorry but that's just not accurate. How much European soccer do you watch outside the Champions League? How much MLS?

Did you watch the 2016 Euros? It was complete dogshit. Did you watch the 2016 Copa America? Far, far better soccer being played.

European soccer isn't as healthy as you think it is. This is especially true for England, who right now can't field a better national team than the US.


I watch EPL and La Liga pretty consistently. I also feel that I'm able to assess what I see on the field. I also can use when we play those better teams as examples that we are behind. If you try telling me that the MLS can sniff any of their jocks we will just have to agree to disagree. South America has some pretty good teams as well. I don't know how the Copa America is defending my claim that players will benefit from playing in other leagues.
The problem..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/28/2017 2:36 pm : link
with these discussions is that the level of play in both the MLS and European soccer is exaggerated here.

The MLS is probably somewhere around the 7th-9th best league in the world. Outside of the US, it has little following. Most Euros look at it as a last gasp money grab to end a career.

But the Premier league is overrated here. I don't believe it is the best league in the World. I'd put it 3rd right now, but even that view can be argued because La Liga and the Bundesliga are very top heavy.

In these discussions, we shouldn't compare the level of play in the Copa America to the Euro Cup though if you want to discuss the merits of the MLS. Comparing the level of play in the MLS postseason vs. games from top teams in other leagues is not even a contest. That Toronto-Montreal 5-2 match was a complete shitshow last year and the final was a snoozefest. When the MLS is able to have young US talent come up through the fledgling academy system, that's when we'll see the growth needed to boost the MLS. But right now, it might be a good arena for the majority of US youth to play in, but that's about it. It's a second/third tier league.
here's one ranking of the leagues that I found ...  
Del Shofner : 3/28/2017 3:27 pm : link
... hey, we've moved past the Scottish League!


World Top 10 Football Leagues
NO# LEAGUE POINTS
1 Spanish La Liga 48
2 England Premier League 47
3 Germany Bundesliga 42
4 Italian Serie A 37
5 Portuguese Liga 35
6 French Ligue 1 31
7 Dutch Eredivisie 27
8 Argentine League 21
9 Brazilian Serie A 20
10 USA MLS 20

If it..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/28/2017 8:50 pm : link
ain't Scottish, it's crap!!
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