“There was a lot of heat on Jerry,’’ Giants co-owner Steve Tisch said Monday during a break at the Biltmore Hotel at the NFL Annual Meeting. “John Mara, my partner, made it very clear to Jerry, ‘We’re watching you and we have very high expectations, and it’s really your time to deliver, Jerry.’
“So the moves he made last season, clearly in retrospect, were hugely significant and really changed the whole defense of the team. I’m thrilled Jerry accepted the challenge, acknowledged what he had to do and he did it. That doesn’t happen every time. It doesn’t happen really all that often..." |
I'm usually labeled a "Reese apologist" because I refuse to reflexively heap scorn upon him for all of the team's shortcomings, but I've been critical of him at times when I've felt that the criticism is warranted, and that goes all the way back to his decision not to re-sign Kawika Mitchell.
He's not God. He's not perfect. He certainly has his flaws, his "blind spots," but on balance I think he's been one of the better GMs in this league.
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He could say nothing.
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So this praise is not unexpected seeing as how Reese still has a job.
He could say nothing.
And when it comes to football matters, he (Tisch) really should.
Bringing up the revered Ozzie Newsome and his fuck-ups are met with crickets..
In sum, he is one of the better GMs in the league who would be out of work all of a few minutes were he to be mistakenly let go, imv..
Marty, this organization hasn't fired a GM since '79,
so for the only organization in the four major sports that hasn't done so... the answer is no.
Please folks, just take the commentary at
face value and nothing more. I am not advocating firing
anyone okay. I have been critical of JR when warranted,
in the past. He did a good job last season, all in all,
now you need a good draft in 2017!
Bringing up the revered Ozzie Newsome and his fuck-ups are met with crickets..
In sum, he is one of the better GMs in the league who would be out of work all of a few minutes were he to be mistakenly let go, imv..
IMV, he is a 'top 15' GM, if one wants to put a value like that....I would not say 'top 10' however. Again, that is my viewpoint.
That's grossly oversimplifying the process. Do you realize how many times teams have gone out and bought big ticket FAs only to have them flop?
It wasn't only that they had a lot to spend, it's that they spent it effectively. They signed good, young players who fit well together.
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When we praise Reese in the OVERALL, we're apologists; when we criticize him at times (2010 screw-up with the Secondary position, Kawika as you point out, etc.,) it is ignored as people CONTINUE to label us as the "Reese can do no wrong crowd," which of course is bullshit..
Bringing up the revered Ozzie Newsome and his fuck-ups are met with crickets..
In sum, he is one of the better GMs in the league who would be out of work all of a few minutes were he to be mistakenly let go, imv..
.
IMV, he is a 'top 15' GM, if one wants to put a value like that....I would not say 'top 10' however. Again, that is my viewpoint.
Your viewpoint isn't worth diddly if you think a guy with two SB trophies who just finished an 11-5 season is middle of the pack.
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When we praise Reese in the OVERALL, we're apologists; when we criticize him at times (2010 screw-up with the Secondary position, Kawika as you point out, etc.,) it is ignored as people CONTINUE to label us as the "Reese can do no wrong crowd," which of course is bullshit..
Bringing up the revered Ozzie Newsome and his fuck-ups are met with crickets..
In sum, he is one of the better GMs in the league who would be out of work all of a few minutes were he to be mistakenly let go, imv..
.
IMV, he is a 'top 15' GM, if one wants to put a value like that....I would not say 'top 10' however. Again, that is my viewpoint.
I think that if you really tried to list 10 GM's better than Reese, you would have a hard time.
Reese deserves blame for some things, but all in all he's been one of the better GMs in the league over the 10 year span he's had the position.
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In comment 13408825 Big Blue '56 said:
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When we praise Reese in the OVERALL, we're apologists; when we criticize him at times (2010 screw-up with the Secondary position, Kawika as you point out, etc.,) it is ignored as people CONTINUE to label us as the "Reese can do no wrong crowd," which of course is bullshit..
Bringing up the revered Ozzie Newsome and his fuck-ups are met with crickets..
In sum, he is one of the better GMs in the league who would be out of work all of a few minutes were he to be mistakenly let go, imv..
.
IMV, he is a 'top 15' GM, if one wants to put a value like that....I would not say 'top 10' however. Again, that is my viewpoint.
Your viewpoint isn't worth diddly if you think a guy with two SB trophies who just finished an 11-5 season is middle of the pack.
We can agree to disagree, they went four consecutive years without making the playoffs before last year. Your narrative suits your point of view.
All those draft picks in rounds 3-7 over the years too.
I am just saying, people can look
at a GM from any angle to make their case.
Dude, I just had major surgery a couple weeks back,
so not going to argue. I am happy I am still around!
That $200 million didn't just magically appear in JR's checking account. He and his crew set themselves up to be able to spend that much.
No, you don't have to be a prodigy, but you do have to be a savvy GM. You don't throw big money at aging, oft-injured veterans looking for one last big payday. Instead, you sign young, ascending talent even when the "experts" decry your every move.
This team led the NFL in injuries three years in a row. What are the odds of that happening?
What would people think of Reese if people like Hakeem Nicks and David Wilson were still playing?
No way! You mean the guys whose money is being spent want to have the person spending it justify his decisions? Why...why...that's outrageous!
Reese has generally been fine, but you're going to rip people for not having him in their top 10? Why exactly?
If you believe Eli is an elite QB and borderline HoF... who oh by the way hasnt derailed a season by getting injured as happens to so many other teams since he came into the league... then is it out of line to have expected more divisional titles in this tenure? I get that two superbowl runs tick a box and that's the name of the game, but I'd have thought we'd have had more regular season success than we've had. Especially given how mediocre the NFC East has been for most of the past 10 years?
Off the top of my head is it unreasonable to rank him behind:
-Green Bay
-Seattle
-Arizona
-New England
-Denver
-Pittsburgh
And i'm not sure how you compare a GM who has a franchise QB with those that havent had one (thus dont have the playoff success, but do get their teams to the postseason most years in spite of that):
-KC
-Houston
-Cincinnati
And then there is Dallas which has had more regular season success than us, but no playoff luck. I'm not entirely sure why the latter falls on a GM.
and not sure he's separated himself from Carolina (two first round byes in past 4 years, and one superbowl) or Atlanta either.
Again not advocating his firing or anything like that, but until he shows he can build a winner around Eli again.. i think #11-15 overall sounds reasonable enough to me.
I have asked before: Why do you hate ownership? It's very strange.
Well he was on notice big time after last year so I guess the owners don't / didn't realize it either.
Not that I think Mara and especially Tisch are the omniscient people or anything -- but the supercilious attitude shown by many here of anyone questioning why we havent had more regular season success under Eli Manning... puzzling to me. I think more GMs could have produced similar results over the past 5-6 years (one double digit win regular season since 2010)
He's always had the qualities that good GM's have. But his results have been mixed due to what can only be gleaned from the comfort of a living room love seat as some form of complacency. Whatever was holding him back before seems to have dissipated. Can't complain about the results over the last year or so.
Second, not giving him credit for last year is short sighted. Critics say he had $200 million to spend. He did but unlike most other teams on a spending spree, he spent the money wisely on younger ascending players. And, this year, without alot of money to spend, he both got lucky (Marshall) and was smart.
My point about Jerry and last year in particular has always been the same...that $200M was spent because of failed draft pick after failed draft pick. The signing of JPP was the first second contract for a Giants first round pick in many, many years. That has to be on the GM and his staff.
So yes we can credit Jerry for going and getting OV, Snacks and Jackrabbit. Nonetheless, the $200M should not have been necessary had we drafted better and that, to me, is the major job of a GM. Again, I will say, JR's failure to fix the offensive line has probably cost us the best years of Eli's career.
Now, we did have a good draft last year and that is on him but we need another good draft this year and we need the OL situation fixed. If not, it will be similar to last year but tougher because we have a tougher schedule. Good D and mediocre offense.
Let's not ignore the point that not just the OL was ignored but so was the Dline or at least poor draft picks. Also, we have not drafted a good TE since Boss.
So yes, I will give credit for the job done since the end of the 2015 season. But the job was made harder and necessary by poor drafting among other issues like drafting guys with injury histories or signing FAs with injury histories etc. etc.
To me, when you have a franchise quarterback you'd better do everything in your power to protect him and give him sufficient weapons. In that sense, the jury, for me, is still out on JR.
I thought K.Mitchell was over-rated because of the 1-2 good plays he made. Over the last year Reese has done a fantastic job.
That's just me. Big picture, people.
That's just me. Big picture, people.
Agreed. Getting that third ring should shut up the haters.
Sam -- not just young ascending players -- players who were workers and not prima donnas - and whose mentalities fit the team
very rare that a FA haul like the Giants had give you the kind of return that was realized
That's just me. Big picture, people.
He'd have it already if Plax didn't shoot himself in the leg.
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Nobody will give a shot about missing on a 3rd round pick.
That's just me. Big picture, people.
He'd have it already if Plax didn't shoot himself in the leg.
Eff that season. Arrrgggh
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Nobody will give a shot about missing on a 3rd round pick.
That's just me. Big picture, people.
Agreed. Getting that third ring should shut up the haters.
Not sure about that.
Eli should have 6 Super Bowl rings- you didn't know that?
Every season should be 10+ wins as well.
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you understand how ridiculous you sound when you say things like "when you have a franchise quarterback you do everything you can to protect him"....when the Giants have won 2 Super Bowls in the Jerry Reese era. In large part due to draft picks and free agency signings that he himself made as GM.
Eli should have 6 Super Bowl rings- you didn't know that?
Every season should be 10+ wins as well.
Wouldn't you rather have the track record of the Bengals or Cardinals?
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In comment 13409038 ryanmkeane said:
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you understand how ridiculous you sound when you say things like "when you have a franchise quarterback you do everything you can to protect him"....when the Giants have won 2 Super Bowls in the Jerry Reese era. In large part due to draft picks and free agency signings that he himself made as GM.
Eli should have 6 Super Bowl rings- you didn't know that?
Every season should be 10+ wins as well.
Wouldn't you rather have the track record of the Bengals or Cardinals?
Ah yes! The calls to hire Duke Tobin! Those were the days!
For years I was a big fan of his (and Coughlin's), but as time passes I start to believe some things more and more:
1. The two Super Bowl wins were lightning in a bottle rather than the result of any particular long term plan or methodology.
2. We've only had one really good team in that 10 year span (2008).
3. We have in some ways squandered the opportunities that should have come with having 199 consecutive starts from the best QB in team history.
We should have done more.
Second, not giving him credit for last year is short sighted. Critics say he had $200 million to spend. He did but unlike most other teams on a spending spree, he spent the money wisely on younger ascending players. And, this year, without alot of money to spend, he both got lucky (Marshall) and was smart.
Very fair post which is your norm..I'll add this: It's one thing to have exorbitant amounts of money to spend, it's another to be able to have that eye for young, ascending talent, which is what JR displayed. If it was simply a case of lots of money yielding winning results, we'd see far more success stories than failures, imv..
For years I was a big fan of his (and Coughlin's), but as time passes I start to believe some things more and more:
1. The two Super Bowl wins were lightning in a bottle rather than the result of any particular long term plan or methodology.
2. We've only had one really good team in that 10 year span (2008).
3. We have in some ways squandered the opportunities that should have come with having 199 consecutive starts from the best QB in team history.
We should have done more.
Super Bowls are Super Bowls. If you make the dance you have as good a shot as anyone. I don't really buy this.
2005-2012 was a very solid run for the Giants which led to 2 Super Bowls. 2010 was a good team.
For years I was a big fan of his (and Coughlin's), but as time passes I start to believe some things more and more:
1. The two Super Bowl wins were lightning in a bottle rather than the result of any particular long term plan or methodology.
2. We've only had one really good team in that 10 year span (2008).
3. We have in some ways squandered the opportunities that should have come with having 199 consecutive starts from the best QB in team history.
We should have done more.
Agree 100%. The division since 2005 has been equally mediocre. It's not like we had to deal with a perennial winner within the division yet the team's w/l record vs Dallas and Philadelphia has hovered at/around .500.
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In that time, the team is 88-72. An average record of 9-7 pretty accurately describes how I feel about his tenure here.
For years I was a big fan of his (and Coughlin's), but as time passes I start to believe some things more and more:
1. The two Super Bowl wins were lightning in a bottle rather than the result of any particular long term plan or methodology.
2. We've only had one really good team in that 10 year span (2008).
3. We have in some ways squandered the opportunities that should have come with having 199 consecutive starts from the best QB in team history.
We should have done more.
Agree 100%. The division since 2005 has been equally mediocre. It's not like we had to deal with a perennial winner within the division yet the team's w/l record vs Dallas and Philadelphia has hovered at/around .500.
To back up the record, NYG vs East (including playoffs) in Manning Era:
Philadelphia 10-18
Dallas 14-12
Washington 17-8
He also deserved the credit he got for the 2007 draft and 2 SB titles. And as Snyder and countless other owners and GMS have shown us, having $$ doesn't mean anything unless it's spent wisely. YEs, he had $200 mill last year, but it was a year where the FA market was deep where they needed help, and he identified the right guys and signed them.Just as this year where the market was week where the needed help and he refused to throw good $$ at bad players for the sake of "doing something".
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A lot of posters here don't realize it, unfortunately.
Well he was on notice big time after last year so I guess the owners don't / didn't realize it either.
Not that I think Mara and especially Tisch are the omniscient people or anything -- but the supercilious attitude shown by many here of anyone questioning why we havent had more regular season success under Eli Manning... puzzling to me. I think more GMs could have produced similar results over the past 5-6 years (one double digit win regular season since 2010)
"Good GM" is not to be confused with "Sterling" or "Incredible"...
Reese has had a lot of premium draft picks suffer career-ending/altering injuries. I'd say he likely has a better track record than the average GM in this league over the last decade. A lot of GM's haven't even lasted that long.
It's a results-based league.. the results weren't there for various reasons recently. I'm not a Reese-apologist, but I do think he's a good GM.
The people who are defensive towards anyone who questions why the results haven't been better or more consistent really aren't any worse than those who blame Reese for literally everything that goes wrong with this football team.
Maybe our QB just isn't as good as Brady or Rodgers. Maybe he's not even as good as Russel Wilson right now.
It's a QB-driven league. I love Eli but it's also okay to admit that he's not an "elite" QB (outside of 2011) and has had a bit of an inconsistent career.
Sintim
Beckum
Barden
Jernigan
Wilson (even before the unfortunate injury it seemed like his incorporation into this offense was difficult)
Odighizuwa
Andre Williams
Randle
Adrien Robinson
With each of these players something felt wrong almost from the start.
I think it's important to have a bit of context here.
Yes, Jerry Reese has made questionable draft day selections. He's also hit on a LOT of his 1st round picks.
I think you'd have to look at how many of Reese's draft picks went on to become legit NFL players.. then you'd have to tier those players and determine how many were simply guys who carved out a niche in this league and how many were true impact players (i.e. Beckham)
It's a complicated argument.