for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Cowboys sign Witten to a 4 year extension

T-Bone : 3/28/2017 11:24 am
Link below.

He's currently 34... guess he thinks he'll play forever like Brady.
He's going to be in Depends by the time he's done - ( New Window )
probably lowers his 2017 cap hit  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 11:27 am : link
and frees up some needed space. I can't imagine there's a significant amount of new guaranteed money in this deal, though you never know with the 'Boys.
Wonder if  
mrvax : 3/28/2017 11:28 am : link
Nursing Home benefits are included?
have to believe this was purely a move to spread out his cap hit  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/28/2017 11:28 am : link
Witten's body has taken a lot of abuse and I have a real hard time believing he'll play for 4 more years
I always said  
jeff57 : 3/28/2017 11:28 am : link
He'll still be catching passes against us 10 years after he's dead.
I don't know why but Witten  
Chris684 : 3/28/2017 11:29 am : link
strikes me as a guy who is going to have alot of physical issues after his career, maybe more than most.

Maybe it's just because he's so damn tough, and he just keeps going but man even as Giants fans we've watched this guy take many big hits.

I obviously hope I'm wrong.

TE is a position that requires both the physicality at the LOS and those collisions on pass routes over the middle.

He is one of the best.
Not to diminish what was already a HoF worthy career in any  
jcn56 : 3/28/2017 11:31 am : link
way, but this past season it looked like father time was starting to catch up to him.
Even if Witten needs a walker, the Giants can't cover him  
Marty in Albany : 3/28/2017 11:31 am : link
What a thorn in our side!
Yeah  
pjcas18 : 3/28/2017 11:32 am : link
I think it's more cap driven than anything else.

they didn't have much choice and couldn't simply restructure since this was the final year of his deal and he counted 12M on the cap.

probably took the 7.5M salary and guaranteed it as a bonus over 5 years. clearing 5M or so in space and added non-guaranteed salaries. just a guess.

Hopefully not making room to sign big time hank.



Imagine ...  
Spider56 : 3/28/2017 11:34 am : link
If Eli had a TE like Witten throughout his career instead of the impostors he's had ... I grew up with Tucker, Bavaro & Mowatt and have always believed it's one of the most important yet under rated positions on the team. Maybe this year we get a real one in the draft.
RE: Not to diminish what was already a HoF worthy career in any  
Mike from SI : 3/28/2017 11:37 am : link
In comment 13409062 jcn56 said:
Quote:
way, but this past season it looked like father time was starting to catch up to him.


Agree completely. Last year was the first year he looked like he might be really falling off. I could totally see him bouncing back, though.
The thing with Witten  
gmen9892 : 3/28/2017 11:39 am : link
Is that he never needed to be fast or too strong to be great at the TE spot. He has always run great routes and had great hands. So reliable for any QB he has played for.

While I hate the guy for being a Cowboy and ALWAYS killing the Giants, I respect his game. Having said that, hopefully we see him retire in the next year or two.
Witten is awesome...  
EricJ : 3/28/2017 11:40 am : link
every once in a while there is a guy who plays for a competitor who you just have to admire. He is one of them. Wish he was a Giant his entire career.
RE: Yeah  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 11:40 am : link
In comment 13409065 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
I think it's more cap driven than anything else.

they didn't have much choice and couldn't simply restructure since this was the final year of his deal and he counted 12M on the cap.

probably took the 7.5M salary and guaranteed it as a bonus over 5 years. clearing 5M or so in space and added non-guaranteed salaries. just a guess.

Hopefully not making room to sign big time hank.




Per OTC, they only had like $1.5M in cap space before this, so I doubt it's enough room to sign Hank. At least not until they figure out what they're doing with Romo.
Before this move  
RetroJint : 3/28/2017 11:42 am : link
They had already spent 40 million on free agents -Cap Hell revisited . They booked Cooper to play LG for one year and the same for David Irving, their burgeoning talent at DT. I doubt they will make a pass at Hankins. They are actually very deep along their defensive line. See them going heavy DB in the draft, and praying Hooker doesn't drop down to them because of the labrum .

Oh and Smith has been declared medically fit at OLB. They also got McFadden back to play behind Zeke and excel nailing people on specials.
They are going younger and faster in their secondary. That's going to be the tripphamer issue for them . Can they cover better?
Last year was the 2nd straight year  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 11:45 am : link
he looked like he was in decline. His career yards/catch is 10.9 and he was at 9.3 ypc in 2015 and 9.8 ypc last season. And only 6 TDs totals in those 2 seasons, though he's never been a huge red zone threat (career high 9 TDs). His blocking, particularly against the Giants, also took a noticeable hit last year.

And he did not kill the Giants last year. Game 1, he nickel-ed and dimed the D for 9 catches (on 14 targets) for 66 yards (7.3 ypc) and no TDs. Game 2 he had a whopping 4 catches (on 7 tgts) for 26 yards (6.5 ypc) and 0 TDs. So in 2 games against the Giants he caught 13 passes for 92 yards. That's a lot of dump offs...
RE: Before this move  
pjcas18 : 3/28/2017 11:48 am : link
In comment 13409087 RetroJint said:
Quote:
They had already spent 40 million on free agents -Cap Hell revisited . They booked Cooper to play LG for one year and the same for David Irving, their burgeoning talent at DT. I doubt they will make a pass at Hankins. They are actually very deep along their defensive line. See them going heavy DB in the draft, and praying Hooker doesn't drop down to them because of the labrum .

Oh and Smith has been declared medically fit at OLB. They also got McFadden back to play behind Zeke and excel nailing people on specials.
They are going younger and faster in their secondary. That's going to be the tripphamer issue for them . Can they cover better?


Cooper is not booked to play LG for them. Pretty sure La'el Collins is their LG. Cooper is backing up Martin I believe. And Cooper is terrible. I wouldn't be shocked if former Giant (among others) Emmett Cleary is ahead of Cooper on their depth chart.



The article states that the 2017 cap number is the same.  
therealmf : 3/28/2017 11:49 am : link
Quote:
Todd Archer @toddarcher
Witten's cap number in 2017 remains the same. No added guaranteed money in deal. Cowboys can restructure later to gain space.
11:31 AM - 28 Mar 2017


They can restructure later but if they had plans to sign someone now wouldn't they have lowered the cap hit now?

I'm no longer worried about Witten  
UConn4523 : 3/28/2017 11:50 am : link
he's much slower and we are much better on defense. Collins and co can erase him when necessary. He'll still be good for the occasional big 3rd down catch, but Collins smoked him last year. No reason that shouldn't continue.
Depending on when  
crackerjack465 : 3/28/2017 11:53 am : link
Fitz retires, he can finish third all times in NFL receptions. Pretty amazing, I wish we had Witten.
this past season it looked like father time was starting to catch up..  
Torrag : 3/28/2017 12:04 pm : link
Agreed and this is too spread out his cap hit. They're desperate to fill some holes on defense.
RE: The article states that the 2017 cap number is the same.  
pjcas18 : 3/28/2017 12:16 pm : link
In comment 13409095 therealmf said:
Quote:


Quote:


Todd Archer @toddarcher
Witten's cap number in 2017 remains the same. No added guaranteed money in deal. Cowboys can restructure later to gain space.
11:31 AM - 28 Mar 2017



They can restructure later but if they had plans to sign someone now wouldn't they have lowered the cap hit now?


Strange move and timing if it doesn't create some cap space. I don't think they can restructure him again until September 8, he restructured September 8 2016 and from what I believe a player cannot restructure more than once in a 365 day period.

RE: RE: The article states that the 2017 cap number is the same.  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 12:19 pm : link
In comment 13409155 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13409095 therealmf said:


Quote:




Quote:


Todd Archer @toddarcher
Witten's cap number in 2017 remains the same. No added guaranteed money in deal. Cowboys can restructure later to gain space.
11:31 AM - 28 Mar 2017



They can restructure later but if they had plans to sign someone now wouldn't they have lowered the cap hit now?




Strange move and timing if it doesn't create some cap space. I don't think they can restructure him again until September 8, he restructured September 8 2016 and from what I believe a player cannot restructure more than once in a 365 day period.


The no new gtd $$ and 'future' restructure bit makes sense if they can't restructure his deal until September. Basically, they got the rest of the required structure in place now and will simply do some 'bookkeeping' in September. Restructuring at that point will probably give them the space needed for in-season roster moves.
RE: I don't know why but Witten  
Mr. Bungle : 3/28/2017 12:24 pm : link
In comment 13409058 Chris684 said:
Quote:
strikes me as a guy who is going to have alot of physical issues after his career, maybe more than most.

Maybe it's just because he's so damn tough, and he just keeps going but man even as Giants fans we've watched this guy take many big hits.

Part of why you think that is probably because Witten is such a stiff player. It's hard to believe he gets open so much. He doesn't look smooth or fluid or nimble when he runs. He runs like he's wearing a snowsuit under his uniform.
RE: RE: RE: The article states that the 2017 cap number is the same.  
pjcas18 : 3/28/2017 12:28 pm : link
In comment 13409166 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13409155 pjcas18 said:


Quote:


In comment 13409095 therealmf said:


Quote:




Quote:


Todd Archer @toddarcher
Witten's cap number in 2017 remains the same. No added guaranteed money in deal. Cowboys can restructure later to gain space.
11:31 AM - 28 Mar 2017



They can restructure later but if they had plans to sign someone now wouldn't they have lowered the cap hit now?




Strange move and timing if it doesn't create some cap space. I don't think they can restructure him again until September 8, he restructured September 8 2016 and from what I believe a player cannot restructure more than once in a 365 day period.




The no new gtd $$ and 'future' restructure bit makes sense if they can't restructure his deal until September. Basically, they got the rest of the required structure in place now and will simply do some 'bookkeeping' in September. Restructuring at that point will probably give them the space needed for in-season roster moves.


True, but it doesn't help them in this off-season.

Have to believe they're limping to the draft until they cut or trade Romo.
Last year vs. Giants  
mrvax : 3/28/2017 12:30 pm : link
Witten had a productive 1st game with 9 catches for 66 yards. In the second game, he caught only 4 balls for 26 yards and had no TDs vs. Giants in 2016.

He did seem much slower than usual to me. Our defense or his decline?
Remind me again why so many BBI posters are in awe of the Cowboys  
Patrick77 : 3/28/2017 12:30 pm : link
Cap management?

A 35 year old tight end.
Averages 9.6 YPC and 9.3 YPC the last two years.
This tight end gets a 4 year extension to help later restructure his 12 million dollar cap hit in 2017...

That Jerry Jones is a savvy genius!

By 2019 Witten will probably be averaging 8 yards a catch and have dementia.

Cap hell might be a relatively vague concept but giving a 35 year old guy at a position dependent on physicality and athleticism who has no wheels at all a 4 year extension reeks of some sort of hell. Not too mention the Cowboys lost 2 OL starters and gutted their defense this offseason.
RE: Remind me again why so many BBI posters are in awe of the Cowboys  
pjcas18 : 3/28/2017 12:33 pm : link
In comment 13409200 Patrick77 said:
Quote:
Cap management?

A 35 year old tight end.
Averages 9.6 YPC and 9.3 YPC the last two years.
This tight end gets a 4 year extension to help later restructure his 12 million dollar cap hit in 2017...

That Jerry Jones is a savvy genius!

By 2019 Witten will probably be averaging 8 yards a catch and have dementia.

Cap hell might be a relatively vague concept but giving a 35 year old guy at a position dependent on physicality and athleticism who has no wheels at all a 4 year extension reeks of some sort of hell. Not too mention the Cowboys lost 2 OL starters and gutted their defense this offseason.


I really don't think many people are in awe of the Cowboys cap management. Most use them as a cautionary tale of constant restructuring.

It's their OL that have many Giants fans in awe.
RE: Before this move  
HomerJones45 : 3/28/2017 12:38 pm : link
In comment 13409087 RetroJint said:
Quote:
They had already spent 40 million on free agents -Cap Hell revisited . They booked Cooper to play LG for one year and the same for David Irving, their burgeoning talent at DT. I doubt they will make a pass at Hankins. They are actually very deep along their defensive line. See them going heavy DB in the draft, and praying Hooker doesn't drop down to them because of the labrum .

Oh and Smith has been declared medically fit at OLB. They also got McFadden back to play behind Zeke and excel nailing people on specials.
They are going younger and faster in their secondary. That's going to be the tripphamer issue for them . Can they cover better?
Faster is the key. As a team, they are way faster and quicker than we are. Incredibly, with Ellison and Marshall, we got slower on offense.

Witten is incredible. Since he turned 30, he hasn't missed a game and has averaged a very steady 70 catches, 700 yards and 4 td's a year.
Jerruh spreading out the cap hit  
Matt in SGS : 3/28/2017 12:38 pm : link
and Witten looked old and slow last year. And he went down as soon as he was hit when he faced the Giants, which was very un-Witten like. Go back and watch the hits he took from Collins in particular. I don't see that improving anytime soon. He was a great player and a sure fire Hall of Famer. a Giant killer in his past. But he's a shell of his former self.
'Cap Hell'  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 12:42 pm : link
Those that don't think cap mismanagement ever catches up to the Cowboys should look at this list:

Players Lost (*still FAs, bold 2016 starters)
Josh Thomas*
Andrew Gachkar*
Gavin Escobar*
Justin Durant*
Mark Sanchez
Chris Brown
Ryan Davis
Ronald Leary
JJ Wilcox
Jack Crawford
Barry Church
Morris Claiborne
Lance Dunbar
Brandon Carr
Terrell McClain
Doug Free (retired)

FA Signings
Damontre Moore
Byron Bell
Stephen Paea
Nolan Carroll

So they lost 7 starters (and some solid depth, especially on D) and replaced them with 4 new FAs, all arguably downgrades (McClain->Paea, Free->Bell, Carr->Carroll, and Moore just sucks).

Unfortunately, once they move on from Romo, they should be in good cap shape moving forward.
Hell I'd sign him now  
Steve L : 3/28/2017 12:43 pm : link
over what we currently have on the roster
RE: RE: Before this move  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 12:46 pm : link
In comment 13409216 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
In comment 13409087 RetroJint said:


Quote:


They had already spent 40 million on free agents -Cap Hell revisited . They booked Cooper to play LG for one year and the same for David Irving, their burgeoning talent at DT. I doubt they will make a pass at Hankins. They are actually very deep along their defensive line. See them going heavy DB in the draft, and praying Hooker doesn't drop down to them because of the labrum .

Oh and Smith has been declared medically fit at OLB. They also got McFadden back to play behind Zeke and excel nailing people on specials.
They are going younger and faster in their secondary. That's going to be the tripphamer issue for them . Can they cover better?

Faster is the key. As a team, they are way faster and quicker than we are. Incredibly, with Ellison and Marshall, we got slower on offense.

Witten is incredible. Since he turned 30, he hasn't missed a game and has averaged a very steady 70 catches, 700 yards and 4 td's a year.


Faster? How so? Other than Byron Jones and Sean Lee, I'm not sure any of their defenders are faster than the corresponding Giants defender.

WRs - Beckham is much faster than Dez, especially after his foot issues. Shepard/Marshall vs Williams/Beasley is a push at worst. Ellison may be slow, but at this point Witten is stuck in quick sand.

Obviously Prescott is faster than Eli, but who cares?

The main advantages the Cowboys have are 3 all-pro OL, a great, young RB and a top 3-5 Kicker.
RE: Before this move  
Pete in MD : 3/28/2017 12:51 pm : link
In comment 13409087 RetroJint said:
Quote:
They had already spent 40 million on free agents -Cap Hell revisited . They booked Cooper to play LG for one year and the same for David Irving, their burgeoning talent at DT. I doubt they will make a pass at Hankins. They are actually very deep along their defensive line. See them going heavy DB in the draft, and praying Hooker doesn't drop down to them because of the labrum .

Oh and Smith has been declared medically fit at OLB. They also got McFadden back to play behind Zeke and excel nailing people on specials.
They are going younger and faster in their secondary. That's going to be the tripphamer issue for them . Can they cover better?

Smith may have been declared "medically fit" but he's far from 100% and may never be. Sure, Smith says he's ready and Steven Jones says the team is optimistic about his recovery but it was reported a few weeks ago that there has been "no significant change" to his damaged peroneal nerve. He still suffers from drop foot and will have to play with a brace. One would think this would impact his ability to play at a high level. I guess time will tell.
Witten is only 34?  
BlackLight : 3/28/2017 12:55 pm : link
He's never going to go away, is he?

as a person who wants to see Dallas burn  
djm : 3/28/2017 1:14 pm : link
I like this move. Witten to me is a slightly above average player the last couple of years. Good blocker. Average receiving TE. Never misses a game. He's got value of course, and he will moonwalk into Canton, but he's not a game changing player at all. Dallas will be paying him huge money when he's out of the league. Works for me.
RE: as a person who wants to see Dallas burn  
therealmf : 3/28/2017 1:23 pm : link
In comment 13409305 djm said:
Quote:
I like this move. Witten to me is a slightly above average player the last couple of years. Good blocker. Average receiving TE. Never misses a game. He's got value of course, and he will moonwalk into Canton, but he's not a game changing player at all. Dallas will be paying him huge money when he's out of the league. Works for me.


The article states that there is no added guaranteed money in the extension. If accurate, they'll only pay him if he plays.
RE: RE: RE: Before this move  
WillVAB : 3/28/2017 1:25 pm : link
In comment 13409239 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13409216 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 13409087 RetroJint said:


Quote:


They had already spent 40 million on free agents -Cap Hell revisited . They booked Cooper to play LG for one year and the same for David Irving, their burgeoning talent at DT. I doubt they will make a pass at Hankins. They are actually very deep along their defensive line. See them going heavy DB in the draft, and praying Hooker doesn't drop down to them because of the labrum .

Oh and Smith has been declared medically fit at OLB. They also got McFadden back to play behind Zeke and excel nailing people on specials.
They are going younger and faster in their secondary. That's going to be the tripphamer issue for them . Can they cover better?

Faster is the key. As a team, they are way faster and quicker than we are. Incredibly, with Ellison and Marshall, we got slower on offense.

Witten is incredible. Since he turned 30, he hasn't missed a game and has averaged a very steady 70 catches, 700 yards and 4 td's a year.



Faster? How so? Other than Byron Jones and Sean Lee, I'm not sure any of their defenders are faster than the corresponding Giants defender.

WRs - Beckham is much faster than Dez, especially after his foot issues. Shepard/Marshall vs Williams/Beasley is a push at worst. Ellison may be slow, but at this point Witten is stuck in quick sand.

Obviously Prescott is faster than Eli, but who cares?

The main advantages the Cowboys have are 3 all-pro OL, a great, young RB and a top 3-5 Kicker.


I agree. Odd post without any factual basis.
dudes the energizer bunny  
mattlawson : 3/28/2017 1:41 pm : link
.
Witten will only have 40 receptions next year  
Vanzetti : 3/28/2017 2:00 pm : link
But 30 of them will be against the Giants
RE: Witten will only have 40 receptions next year  
giants#1 : 3/28/2017 2:19 pm : link
In comment 13409418 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
But 30 of them will be against the Giants


For 70 yards and 0 TDs...
RE: Imagine ...  
section125 : 3/28/2017 2:41 pm : link
In comment 13409072 Spider56 said:
Quote:
If Eli had a TE like Witten throughout his career instead of the impostors he's had ... I grew up with Tucker, Bavaro & Mowatt and have always believed it's one of the most important yet under rated positions on the team. Maybe this year we get a real one in the draft.


Phil never had WRs like Toomer, Nicks, Cruz, Manningham, Odell...

Johnny Grey, Mark Ingram, Steven Baker.....
Witten  
Rong5611 : 3/28/2017 4:48 pm : link
Can't stand the Cowboys, but Witten is one that's earned my respect. Guy is a great player and a future first ballot Hall of Famer.
RE: RE: RE: Before this move  
HomerJones45 : 3/28/2017 5:18 pm : link
In comment 13409239 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 13409216 HomerJones45 said:


Quote:


In comment 13409087 RetroJint said:


Quote:


They had already spent 40 million on free agents -Cap Hell revisited . They booked Cooper to play LG for one year and the same for David Irving, their burgeoning talent at DT. I doubt they will make a pass at Hankins. They are actually very deep along their defensive line. See them going heavy DB in the draft, and praying Hooker doesn't drop down to them because of the labrum .

Oh and Smith has been declared medically fit at OLB. They also got McFadden back to play behind Zeke and excel nailing people on specials.
They are going younger and faster in their secondary. That's going to be the tripphamer issue for them . Can they cover better?

Faster is the key. As a team, they are way faster and quicker than we are. Incredibly, with Ellison and Marshall, we got slower on offense.

Witten is incredible. Since he turned 30, he hasn't missed a game and has averaged a very steady 70 catches, 700 yards and 4 td's a year.



Faster? How so? Other than Byron Jones and Sean Lee, I'm not sure any of their defenders are faster than the corresponding Giants defender.

WRs - Beckham is much faster than Dez, especially after his foot issues. Shepard/Marshall vs Williams/Beasley is a push at worst. Ellison may be slow, but at this point Witten is stuck in quick sand.

Obviously Prescott is faster than Eli, but who cares?

The main advantages the Cowboys have are 3 all-pro OL, a great, young RB and a top 3-5 Kicker.
Shepard and Marshall are not a push on a good day. Beasley and Williams both timed faster than Shepard and sure as shit are faster than the now 33 year old Marshall. In fact, Beasley and Williams timed faster than Jenkins and Apple. We have no one who matches Byron Jones. Let's be kind and not talk about linebackers. I will stand by my opinion.
RE: I always said  
81_Great_Dane : 3/28/2017 5:39 pm : link
In comment 13409056 jeff57 said:
Quote:
He'll still be catching passes against us 10 years after he's dead.
Yup. "caught by Zombie Witten, first down!!"
His best days are behind him  
George : 3/28/2017 6:09 pm : link
He was a non-factor in 2016 and not much more of a threat the year before that. Dak Prescott has found a possession receiver in Beasley, and Witten's role will only diminish in 2017.
RE: I always said  
jerrydo : 3/28/2017 6:33 pm : link
In comment 13409056 jeff57 said:
Quote:
He'll still be catching passes against us 10 years after he's dead.


LOL

Collins't hit on him last year was very satisfying!
Back to the Corner