At 6'/233# that's real speed. I've mentioned before I like his game and was waiting on two things, his timed speed to verify the long runs he had in college and the evaluation of his hairline fracture. He appears to check off those boxes.
Now the concern becomes he probably pushed himself far enough up the board he won't be there for a pick I want to spend on a RB(3-5). But it's hard to predict with backs in the draft so we'll see how it plays out.
For the Giants. He will go in the 2nd. I hope Giants can still take him
He's a bellcow RB. I watched a lot of Longhorn games. He's the real deal
Better than Cook who I believe is overrated
I am surprised he is that fast. I don't by the knock I heard that one analyst thinks he runs soft. He doesn't, and most scouts think this. He gets a lot of yards after the hit. UT's OL was not that good. Remember they had another excellent RB there and he beat them out. The thing with him is I haven't really seen him do much catching the ball, and I would say he I'd like to see him make people miss in the NFL. He's a big guy, not a Barry Sanders type, so this is TBD in my book. If he can do these things he'll be really good, if not he could be Andre Williams.
Ability to change direction on a dime? Blcoking? Speed with pads on?
He can cut, but lets see if he can "cut and make people miss" in the NFL. Lots of backs can't. However its certainly not the main part of his game like other backs. He could be a Blount/Lynch type guy at the high end, Andrew Williams at the low.
in his highlight tapes -- seems to outrun the hole, and bounces outside a lot. I really don't like the way he holds the ball. He does have game speed but I don't spend a 2nd round pick on him -- maybe a 3rd, depending on what else is available, but I'd definitely do a fourth round flyer on him - he needs woik
Physical power back with quick feet, and good agility. Unbelievable workload, including 50+ carries against Kansas last year. Won't run away from NFL defenders IMO. Six or seven fumbles last year, but had an incredibly high number of carries, and is constantly being pummeled. Willing in pass protection, but slow to pick up stunts and blitzes. That could be a real problem, especially with Eli being immobile. Lost weight before the combine, but was found to have a small stress fracture in one of his feet. Here is something about his workload:
"However heavy he actually was, it worked. As a junior this past season, Foreman carried the ball 323 times for 2,028 yards and seven touchdowns. His lowest output of the season was a 24-carry, 124-yard effort in a loss at Kansas State, one of just three games in which he failed to score a touchdown. Foreman had a pair of 250-yard games (Baylor and Kansas) and a ridiculous 341 yards at Texas Tech."
Assuming he checks out medically, I'd be OK with him in the third.
Im all on board for Cook or Mccaffrey at 23. Fuck Fournette and Foreman. Cook is the real deal, i want him in Blue, Bad! Mccaffrey would be a nice consolation prize.
He has zero burst. I think he has Dayne/Andre Williams written all over him. He is an 2-3 ypc guy behind our offensive line as it currently is. Too slow to the line of scrimmage, doesn't appear to show great vision and cutting ability in tight spaces. dont see him being particularly effective in short yardage. This guy does nothin for me. If it were me(which it isn't) I'd pass.
Im all on board for Cook or Mccaffrey at 23. Fuck Fournette and Foreman. Cook is the real deal, i want him in Blue, Bad! Mccaffrey would be a nice consolation prize.
McCaffrey would be the first RB I'd take for the Giants (@23).
Maybe Texas' OL isn't very good, but I didn't see him run through a hole that wasn't at least 6 feet wide. Some of that is due to the fact that YouTube highlight videos don't often show the plays where a RB gets skinny in a hurry and squeezes 3-4 yards where there should have been 0. Those are the highlights I want to see.
The guy has an excellent burst for a big guy. Also I've seen it take 3 or 4 guys to bring him down, remember they ran him up the guy a lot. Below is video of highlights, granted handpicked by someone, but it does show bust, speed, and power.
The guy has an excellent burst for a big guy. Also I've seen it take 3 or 4 guys to bring him down, remember they ran him up the guy a lot. Below is video of highlights, granted handpicked by someone, but it does show bust, speed, and power.
If he's there in the 3rd I think he is a steal. Maybe even in the second too. Foreman Highlights - ( New Window )
I think Perine is a better value in the 2nd, just because you don't have to coach him up. To me, Foreman is a higher ceiling lower floor guy compared to Perine, and in the earlier rounds, as a Giants fan, I'm snakebit over those types of backs.
I like him in the third though. I think he might go early third now that he ran essentially a 4.5, which is the same as those first round backs.
I was under the impression Perine really hurt himself at the combine. Â
Im all on board for Cook or Mccaffrey at 23. Fuck Fournette and Foreman. Cook is the real deal, i want him in Blue, Bad! Mccaffrey would be a nice consolation prize.
Isn't Cook a hardened punk criminal who actually brought a gun to school and discharged it? Another poster listed all the charges against this asshole the other day. No thank you.
Against the same competition, Foreman had 1,000 more yards Â
and rushed for almost 1 yd more per carry than Perine. I was surprised, and expected with the big difference in workload Perine would be higher in yards per carry. After all Perine split time with Mixon so he should have been fresher. Foreman was a workhorse with 323 carries.
these up perfectly for the player focusing only on what they do well. Private workouts, set up by the club, focus on what the player does NOT do well. Thus, private workouts are important...Pro days are useless.
Im all on board for Cook or Mccaffrey at 23. Fuck Fournette and Foreman. Cook is the real deal, i want him in Blue, Bad! Mccaffrey would be a nice consolation prize.
Cook id definitely the more talented back if it's between him and Foreman -- only real knock on Cook is ball security
RE: I was under the impression Perine really hurt himself at the combine. Â
Other than this bench press, I don't believe he put up very good numbers.
None of the RBs really wowed from my memory other than McCaffrey (his 40 was best at 4.48). Cook disappointed most at the combine from what I remember.
But, Perine is in some ways the perfect fit for the Giants. He does all the little things which would make him a plug and play RB. He blocks and catches. The two things missing from Foreman's game. Plus he's got the size, which we're lacking in the run game.
Foreman seems like a more explosive runner. But, he's definitely more raw.
But, Perine is in some ways the perfect fit for the Giants. He does all the little things which would make him a plug and play RB. He blocks and catches. The two things missing from Foreman's game. Plus he's got the size, which we're lacking in the run game.
Foreman seems like a more explosive runner. But, he's definitely more raw.
I too like Perine -- but size wise he's thick and powerful, short and compact -- not sure what you mean by size
RE: RE: RE: I was under the impression Perine really hurt himself at the combine. Â
But, Perine is in some ways the perfect fit for the Giants. He does all the little things which would make him a plug and play RB. He blocks and catches. The two things missing from Foreman's game. Plus he's got the size, which we're lacking in the run game.
Foreman seems like a more explosive runner. But, he's definitely more raw.
I too like Perine -- but size wise he's thick and powerful, short and compact -- not sure what you mean by size
He's a big back. 5'11'' 235. Would round out the unit with Vereen and Perkins, no pun intended.
Alarming ball security issues this season with seven fumbles and six lost. Poor mechanics in pass protection. Doesn't square assignments defaulting to lazy shoulder blocks.
...And have seen pretty much every Texas game. I stick to my earlier evaluation and would take him in the late 2nd. He's tough to bring down and his small fumbling issue can be attributed to a hand injury revealed after the season. He also says he can catch - working out with his WR twin brother, although he was pretty much never asked to do so at UT.
I don't see the Ron Dayne/Andre Williams comparisons. He'll be more successful.
Alarming ball security issues this season with seven fumbles and six lost. Poor mechanics in pass protection. Doesn't square assignments defaulting to lazy shoulder blocks.
Link - ( New Window )
Ha ha, yes those are the written issues. Now lets list the strengths. Plus he was the Doak Walker winner. I'm also not sure 6 lost fumbles is bad when you have 323 carries plus some receptions.
STRENGTHS Outstanding athleticism for a big runner. Smooth lateral movement. Has feet and agility for slide and go cuts from one gap to the next without a noticeable gear down. Finesses run lanes with subtle shifts and turns. Measured stride length optimizes balance. Swivels hips to swerve away from second level linebackers. Can hurdle open field tacklers who try and go low. Play speed is adequate. Has size and balance to pinball from one tackler to the next if he's not wrapped up. Jars linebackers and safeties at impact with his size alone. North-south runner. Rarely caught taking a loss due to ill-advised "bounce" outside. Proved he could shoulder heavy workload while cranking out consistent production week after week. Had tremendous conversion rate when short yardage was needed
He is an exciting player who is tough to bring down.
Baylor 2016
Oklahoma 2016
Notre Dame 2016
TCU 2016
I watched the Baylor and ND ones. I counted just once when he was hit and brought right down. All the others, and he was getting nailed right away by Baylor, he was rumbling forward for 4 yards or so even after being hit a few times. Obviously when there was more of an opening he was gone.
Foreman goes down the instant someone hits him in the legs. He has no wiggle, takes five yards beyond LOS to get to full speed, is not a battering ram. I am not a pro scout, but i was not impressed. Much prefer mid-round candidates like Kareem Hunt or Joe Mixon or James Conner.
Tell you what Sy. Of those 5. I like Smith and Perine the best. Those two are true power backs. I give a slight edge to smith who seems to play more consistently bulling through the line, but Perine is really built like a tank
...really? not sure what you're seeing to take him that high. Unlike Foreman who just validated what you see on tape Perine ran much slower and looks slower in game action as well imo. His 3-cone was also extremely poor which is a concern. If there is any workout stat that has a correlation to the Giants actual draft picks it is the 3-cone.
RE: 'I think Perine is a better value in the 2nd'... Â
...really? not sure what you're seeing to take him that high. Unlike Foreman who just validated what you see on tape Perine ran much slower and looks slower in game action as well imo. His 3-cone was also extremely poor which is a concern. If there is any workout stat that has a correlation to the Giants actual draft picks it is the 3-cone.
That was in response to someone saying they want Foreman in the second. Also, I said Foreman is a better runner, nevertheless Perine is solid all around. He's more pro ready than Foreman. So, he contribute right away, which I think is important for a second round RB. That said, I'm not a fan of drafting Perine. I agree with your take that his rushing ability leaves something to be desired. I'd rather take Foreman in the 3rd.
But, if they felt they had to draft someone in the second, I wouldn't want someone like Foreman who might not be able to get serious play until year 2 because he still needs a bit of coaching up.
The philosophy of the draft shouldn't be too take the guy that is marginally better now imo. You draft the player that your coaches will get the most out of. The draft is about the future, not the now...within reason. Look at the David Wilson pick. He had pass protection issues. But they saw a dynamic runner and a hard worker and felt they could coach him up. He wasn't a finished product. If he hadn't gotten hurt I still believe he may have become a special back for us.
The philosophy of the draft shouldn't be too take the guy that is marginally better now imo. You draft the player that your coaches will get the most out of. The draft is about the future, not the now...within reason. Look at the David Wilson pick. He had pass protection issues. But they saw a dynamic runner and a hard worker and felt they could coach him up. He wasn't a finished product. If he hadn't gotten hurt I still believe he may have become a special back for us.
I don't think it's marginal when you're talking about the ability to be a three down back. I agree Foreman could turn into a huge weapon and Perine likely doesn't have that ceiling. But, Foreman's floor if he doesn't develop 3 down ability is much lower than Perine's is right now.
I'd rather wait out the RB pick if McCaffrey doesn't fall to us in 1. There are guys who can be starters or have better value at other spots in the 2nd and 3rd (at CB or OL, e.g.). Foreman is the exception for me, because he has that potential, and I do think he will become well-rounded. I don't know whether we're actually disagreeing.
Again not sure what you're watching. It's absolutely marginal. Why can't Foreman with his AA and size/speed ratio 'learn' to pick up a blitz? He's flashed natural hands in limited opportunities as a receiver. All Giants fans have seen a RB learn to protect the ball better during Barber's career.
Again most players that come out have some things they need to work on. Generally a team will take the better long term prospect unless there is a glaring difference. There is no such disparity between these two prospects. Most rankings have them fairly close and that was before Foreman impressed at his Pro Day while Perine showed some weaknesses. So if you take a little time to develop Foreman you should have the superior player.
In fact at this point I'll be mildly surprised... Â
That's a great time even if you add .05-.10 to it...
I like this kid as a complement to Perkins. I wonder how high they'd take him.
This is where his game is lacking. He's much more of a straight ahead/ hit the hole power back, with little wiggle to his game.
Now the concern becomes he probably pushed himself far enough up the board he won't be there for a pick I want to spend on a RB(3-5). But it's hard to predict with backs in the draft so we'll see how it plays out.
He's a bellcow RB. I watched a lot of Longhorn games. He's the real deal
Better than Cook who I believe is overrated
He's a power back. 6'0'' 240
There are knocks are on his fumbling and blocking.
But, he's the kind of guy you want in short yardage to just pound through the line.
But if he can get 4.5 speed, that changes things. He can seriously hurt the other teams' safeties.
1st is Fournette.
Foreman is tops on day 2. Perine is there also.
James Conner on day 3
He can cut, but lets see if he can "cut and make people miss" in the NFL. Lots of backs can't. However its certainly not the main part of his game like other backs. He could be a Blount/Lynch type guy at the high end, Andrew Williams at the low.
Physical power back with quick feet, and good agility. Unbelievable workload, including 50+ carries against Kansas last year. Won't run away from NFL defenders IMO. Six or seven fumbles last year, but had an incredibly high number of carries, and is constantly being pummeled. Willing in pass protection, but slow to pick up stunts and blitzes. That could be a real problem, especially with Eli being immobile. Lost weight before the combine, but was found to have a small stress fracture in one of his feet. Here is something about his workload:
"However heavy he actually was, it worked. As a junior this past season, Foreman carried the ball 323 times for 2,028 yards and seven touchdowns. His lowest output of the season was a 24-carry, 124-yard effort in a loss at Kansas State, one of just three games in which he failed to score a touchdown. Foreman had a pair of 250-yard games (Baylor and Kansas) and a ridiculous 341 yards at Texas Tech."
Assuming he checks out medically, I'd be OK with him in the third.
McCaffrey would be the first RB I'd take for the Giants (@23).
Foreman in the third wouldn't be bad though.
If he's there in the 3rd I think he is a steal. Maybe even in the second too.
Foreman Highlights - ( New Window )
If he's there in the 3rd I think he is a steal. Maybe even in the second too. Foreman Highlights - ( New Window )
I think Perine is a better value in the 2nd, just because you don't have to coach him up. To me, Foreman is a higher ceiling lower floor guy compared to Perine, and in the earlier rounds, as a Giants fan, I'm snakebit over those types of backs.
I like him in the third though. I think he might go early third now that he ran essentially a 4.5, which is the same as those first round backs.
Isn't Cook a hardened punk criminal who actually brought a gun to school and discharged it? Another poster listed all the charges against this asshole the other day. No thank you.
Cook id definitely the more talented back if it's between him and Foreman -- only real knock on Cook is ball security
None of the RBs really wowed from my memory other than McCaffrey (his 40 was best at 4.48). Cook disappointed most at the combine from what I remember.
But, Perine is in some ways the perfect fit for the Giants. He does all the little things which would make him a plug and play RB. He blocks and catches. The two things missing from Foreman's game. Plus he's got the size, which we're lacking in the run game.
Foreman seems like a more explosive runner. But, he's definitely more raw.
But, Perine is in some ways the perfect fit for the Giants. He does all the little things which would make him a plug and play RB. He blocks and catches. The two things missing from Foreman's game. Plus he's got the size, which we're lacking in the run game.
Foreman seems like a more explosive runner. But, he's definitely more raw.
I too like Perine -- but size wise he's thick and powerful, short and compact -- not sure what you mean by size
Quote:
But, Perine is in some ways the perfect fit for the Giants. He does all the little things which would make him a plug and play RB. He blocks and catches. The two things missing from Foreman's game. Plus he's got the size, which we're lacking in the run game.
Foreman seems like a more explosive runner. But, he's definitely more raw.
I too like Perine -- but size wise he's thick and powerful, short and compact -- not sure what you mean by size
He's a big back. 5'11'' 235. Would round out the unit with Vereen and Perkins, no pun intended.
Link - ( New Window )
I don't see the Ron Dayne/Andre Williams comparisons. He'll be more successful.
Quote:
Alarming ball security issues this season with seven fumbles and six lost. Poor mechanics in pass protection. Doesn't square assignments defaulting to lazy shoulder blocks.
Link - ( New Window )
Ha ha, yes those are the written issues. Now lets list the strengths. Plus he was the Doak Walker winner. I'm also not sure 6 lost fumbles is bad when you have 323 carries plus some receptions.
STRENGTHS Outstanding athleticism for a big runner. Smooth lateral movement. Has feet and agility for slide and go cuts from one gap to the next without a noticeable gear down. Finesses run lanes with subtle shifts and turns. Measured stride length optimizes balance. Swivels hips to swerve away from second level linebackers. Can hurdle open field tacklers who try and go low. Play speed is adequate. Has size and balance to pinball from one tackler to the next if he's not wrapped up. Jars linebackers and safeties at impact with his size alone. North-south runner. Rarely caught taking a loss due to ill-advised "bounce" outside. Proved he could shoulder heavy workload while cranking out consistent production week after week. Had tremendous conversion rate when short yardage was needed
Baylor 2016
Oklahoma 2016
Notre Dame 2016
TCU 2016
Baylor 2016
Oklahoma 2016
Notre Dame 2016
TCU 2016
I watched the Baylor and ND ones. I counted just once when he was hit and brought right down. All the others, and he was getting nailed right away by Baylor, he was rumbling forward for 4 yards or so even after being hit a few times. Obviously when there was more of an opening he was gone.
Foreman - Texas
Hunt - Toledo
Perine - Oklahoma
Conner - Pittsburgh
Smith - Michigan
Foreman - Texas
Hunt - Toledo
Perine - Oklahoma
Conner - Pittsburgh
Smith - Michigan
Tell you what Sy. Of those 5. I like Smith and Perine the best. Those two are true power backs. I give a slight edge to smith who seems to play more consistently bulling through the line, but Perine is really built like a tank
Alvin Kamara
Aaron Jones
Joe William
Stanley Boom Williams
Joe Mixon
That was in response to someone saying they want Foreman in the second. Also, I said Foreman is a better runner, nevertheless Perine is solid all around. He's more pro ready than Foreman. So, he contribute right away, which I think is important for a second round RB. That said, I'm not a fan of drafting Perine. I agree with your take that his rushing ability leaves something to be desired. I'd rather take Foreman in the 3rd.
But, if they felt they had to draft someone in the second, I wouldn't want someone like Foreman who might not be able to get serious play until year 2 because he still needs a bit of coaching up.
I don't think it's marginal when you're talking about the ability to be a three down back. I agree Foreman could turn into a huge weapon and Perine likely doesn't have that ceiling. But, Foreman's floor if he doesn't develop 3 down ability is much lower than Perine's is right now.
I'd rather wait out the RB pick if McCaffrey doesn't fall to us in 1. There are guys who can be starters or have better value at other spots in the 2nd and 3rd (at CB or OL, e.g.). Foreman is the exception for me, because he has that potential, and I do think he will become well-rounded. I don't know whether we're actually disagreeing.
Are you saying you'd take Foreman in the 2nd?
Again most players that come out have some things they need to work on. Generally a team will take the better long term prospect unless there is a glaring difference. There is no such disparity between these two prospects. Most rankings have them fairly close and that was before Foreman impressed at his Pro Day while Perine showed some weaknesses. So if you take a little time to develop Foreman you should have the superior player.