Again not sure what you're watching. It's absolutely marginal. Why can't Foreman with his AA and size/speed ratio 'learn' to pick up a blitz? He's flashed natural hands in limited opportunities as a receiver. All Giants fans have seen a RB learn to protect the ball better during Barber's career.
Again most players that come out have some things they need to work on. Generally a team will take the better long term prospect unless there is a glaring difference. There is no such disparity between these two prospects. Most rankings have them fairly close and that was before Foreman impressed at his Pro Day while Perine showed some weaknesses. So if you take a little time to develop Foreman you should have the superior player.
I think you're being pedantic here. I didn't say Foreman couldn't ever pass pro. I said he needs more coaching up than Perine. I'm not sure how that's controversial.
You implied it wasn't close between the two players. Not marginal right? That's your position I take issue with. Not that it's a big deal but you're wrong. I wouldn't touch Perine in the 2nd Round but I'd consider Foreman there. He is the higher ceiling player. I wouldn't pull the trigger until the 3rd though to be honest. Perine is a 4th Rounder for me.
RE: 'I said he needs more coaching up than Perine'...
You implied it wasn't close between the two players. Not marginal right? That's your position I take issue with. Not that it's a big deal but you're wrong. I wouldn't touch Perine in the 2nd Round but I'd consider Foreman there. He is the higher ceiling player. I wouldn't pull the trigger until the 3rd though to be honest. Perine is a 4th Rounder for me.
So Perine isn't the more refined player? You're definitely just being pedantic. I haven't disagreed with anything you said.
You said: 'I think Perine is a better value in the 2nd'
You said: 'I don't think it's marginal'...the difference between the two players
Those are clear cut statements. Aren't they? I responded specifically to counter your opinions I don't agree with. It's called a debate and it's what we do here.
You said: 'I think Perine is a better value in the 2nd'
You said: 'I don't think it's marginal'...the difference between the two players
Those are clear cut statements. Aren't they? I responded specifically to counter your opinions I don't agree with. It's called a debate and it's what we do here.
So, if a running back isn't seen as capable of blocking or receiving, that's negligible?
If NYG is going after a RB in rounds 3-5...
...Think they are looking at:
Foreman - Texas
Hunt - Toledo
Perine - Oklahoma
Conner - Pittsburgh
Smith - Michigan
gidiefor said:
Quote:
Tell you what Sy. Of those 5. I like Smith and Perine the best. Those two are true power backs. I give a slight edge to smith who seems to play more consistently bulling through the line, but Perine is really built like a tank
I understand De'Veon Smith seems like a good complement to Perkins and Vereen; but can any RB retain a Round 3-5 draft grade after running a 4.83 40 at the Michigan Pro Day? For perspective, Chris Wormley also ran a 4.83, at around 300 pounds. And it's not as though Smith was wildly productive in college. Looks more like a seventh-round pick to me, despite his pass-blocking skills.
Joe Williams is the mid-round RB that intrigues me...
If NYG is going after a RB in rounds 3-5...
...Think they are looking at:
Foreman - Texas
Hunt - Toledo
Perine - Oklahoma
Conner - Pittsburgh
Smith - Michigan
gidiefor said:
Quote:
Tell you what Sy. Of those 5. I like Smith and Perine the best. Those two are true power backs. I give a slight edge to smith who seems to play more consistently bulling through the line, but Perine is really built like a tank
I understand De'Veon Smith seems like a good complement to Perkins and Vereen; but can any RB retain a Round 3-5 draft grade after running a 4.83 40 at the Michigan Pro Day? For perspective, Chris Wormley also ran a 4.83, at around 300 pounds. And it's not as though Smith was wildly productive in college. Looks more like a seventh-round pick to me, despite his pass-blocking skills.
Smith is a bull -- you don't draft him for speed -- you draft him because he not afraid to smack through traffic
Smith weights 20 pounds less, is an inch shorter, and runs
a 4.8 versus a 4.41 (or 4.45) versus Foreman. He also gained over 1,000 yards less last year in college. I don't understand the dislike of Foreman on here. He certainly seems to be very underrated. I could see if he came from an FCS school, but this guy was the workhouse for Big-12 Texas. I'd love to have Foreman ahead of all the others listed in this thread.
RE: Sy'56/gidiefor: Is Smith still a mid-round prospect?
Smith is a bull -- you don't draft him for speed -- you draft him because he not afraid to smack through traffic
I just don't see a lot of backs like that getting drafted at all, let alone in rounds 3-5. Check the Draft Day history of RBs who timed above 4.65 at the Combine. It's really grim. 4.83 at a Pro Day? That is horrendous. Unless the injury from the Combine was still slowing him down, it's hard to imagine his name being called before the waning hours of the draft. That's not to say he wouldn't be a good addition for the Giants - just that a back who can't threaten the edge isn't much of a draftable prospect.
I don't understand the dislike of Foreman on here. He certainly seems to be very underrated. I could see if he came from an FCS school, but this guy was the workhouse for Big-12 Texas. I'd love to have Foreman ahead of all the others listed in this thread.
I think it's more a question of whether he can offer immediate help. Issues with ball security and pass-protection have been known to keep talented rookie backs on the sideline. (See "Wilson, David", among others.)
Again most players that come out have some things they need to work on. Generally a team will take the better long term prospect unless there is a glaring difference. There is no such disparity between these two prospects. Most rankings have them fairly close and that was before Foreman impressed at his Pro Day while Perine showed some weaknesses. So if you take a little time to develop Foreman you should have the superior player.
I think you're being pedantic here. I didn't say Foreman couldn't ever pass pro. I said he needs more coaching up than Perine. I'm not sure how that's controversial.
So Perine isn't the more refined player? You're definitely just being pedantic. I haven't disagreed with anything you said.
You said: 'I don't think it's marginal'...the difference between the two players
Those are clear cut statements. Aren't they? I responded specifically to counter your opinions I don't agree with. It's called a debate and it's what we do here.
You said: 'I don't think it's marginal'...the difference between the two players
Those are clear cut statements. Aren't they? I responded specifically to counter your opinions I don't agree with. It's called a debate and it's what we do here.
So, if a running back isn't seen as capable of blocking or receiving, that's negligible?
...Think they are looking at:
Foreman - Texas
Hunt - Toledo
Perine - Oklahoma
Conner - Pittsburgh
Smith - Michigan
Quote:
If NYG is going after a RB in rounds 3-5...
...Think they are looking at:
Foreman - Texas
Hunt - Toledo
Perine - Oklahoma
Conner - Pittsburgh
Smith - Michigan
gidiefor said:
Quote:
Tell you what Sy. Of those 5. I like Smith and Perine the best. Those two are true power backs. I give a slight edge to smith who seems to play more consistently bulling through the line, but Perine is really built like a tank
I understand De'Veon Smith seems like a good complement to Perkins and Vereen; but can any RB retain a Round 3-5 draft grade after running a 4.83 40 at the Michigan Pro Day? For perspective, Chris Wormley also ran a 4.83, at around 300 pounds. And it's not as though Smith was wildly productive in college. Looks more like a seventh-round pick to me, despite his pass-blocking skills.
Smith is a bull -- you don't draft him for speed -- you draft him because he not afraid to smack through traffic