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Garafolo: NYG drafting QB early "stronger than many believe"

Defenderdawg : 3/28/2017 7:07 pm
Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo)
3/28/17, 6:59 PM
The possibility of the Giants taking a QB high next month is stronger than many believe. Telling quotes from the owners...
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I hope this is a smokescreen..........  
Dry Lightning : 3/28/2017 9:00 pm : link
I don't see a first round lock franchise QB in this years bunch. That is not to say drafting a QB would be stupid. I like Webb and Peterman. The first round would be nuts for either of those players. In addition, it would fuck up the whole team, causing dissension and the kind of lunacy that would ruin the present, and any young qb's ability to develop. This is the year we need a good smokescreen. I don't want some asshole trading up to get Lamp or some other lineman we have targeted. So I hope that is what this is.
I would have zero issue with the Giants taking a QB  
blueblood : 3/28/2017 9:05 pm : link
in round one. Everyone has convinced themselves that Eli has 2-3 years left.. He might not... I think its not such a bad idea to draft a QB and have him sit for a year or two..

Im not advocating it.. but I could completely understand the move.

It also makes sense to send out as MUCH information that the Giants are interested in taking a QB.. possibly can get one of the teams lower down.. Arizona.. KC... to move up and get one..
Trubisky  
AcidTest : 3/28/2017 9:13 pm : link
is the only QB I'm sure will be gone by #23. But Mahomes and Watson could easily be gone as well. KC, NO, and SD could all take a QB. Their current QBs are all aging. The Saints brought Mahomes in for a private visit. The Texans could also trade up in front of us.

KIzer and Webb will be available at #23. I wouldn't take either, but both could be gone by the end of the first round. Peterman goes in the second.

This is a bad year for QBs, but six will likely be gone by #55. At that point, you're left with Kaaya, Evans, Torgersen, etc. on day three.
RE: I'll believe it when I see it.  
Joey in VA : 3/28/2017 9:19 pm : link
In comment 13409840 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Till then, calling it major bs.
Trust the Mikey G.
Do you guys remember  
Joey in VA : 3/28/2017 9:22 pm : link
When Tiki Barber and Mike Strahan were incensed that the Giants took a rookie QB instead of extending Kerry Collins when TC took over? Remember the anger at the time to teach a young QB, we have a team ready to contend..etc etc etc? What was it, 4 years later and Mr. Strahan had a ring when he thought he was too old to let a rookie come in? Let that sink in for a minute before you all start lighting the torches and sharpening the pitchforks.
Love Kaaya  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 3/28/2017 9:26 pm : link
In the 4th. Real talented kid.
I think we might draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round...more likely 2nd  
yatqb : 3/28/2017 9:30 pm : link
if "our guy" lasts that long. Not sure who our guy is, but I bet that McAdoo would love a more mobile QB. Hopefully he'd only go with one that he thinks will have Eli's intelligence, work effort and ability to read defenses.
Pitt QB in round two is my guess.  
bceagle05 : 3/28/2017 9:30 pm : link
TE or OL in round one.
Except Collins didn't have 2 Super Bowl MVPs  
widmerseyebrow : 3/28/2017 10:43 pm : link
You won't see BB wasting a first on such an asinine idea. Seriously what is the point? So when Eli is having his over the hill season, we have an unproven bench warmer ready to take our minds off of how badly the season is going? Why not just lose a couple more games in said hypothetical year and be at the top of the draft order? Is it really easier to grab the next Aaron Rodgers and have a seamless transition? History says its not.
Drafting a QB @#23 or in round two  
steve in ky : 3/28/2017 10:51 pm : link
is a little different than trading ip to grab the #1 player in the draft whom the GM strongly believed to be a QB that was a franchise maker.

Not saying the Giants shouldn't grab a QB in round two of they really believed Eli's replacement was available but still very different scenario than when the Giants drafted Eli.
this...  
Torrag : 3/28/2017 10:58 pm : link
I'll believe it when I see it.
Ten Ton Hammer : 7:11 pm
Till then, calling it major bs.


Me too.
No way Giants take a QB in the first or second round  
Vanzetti : 3/28/2017 11:30 pm : link
This is all about Eli's window. You try to win these next 3 years.

After Eli leaves, you tank for a season and clear all your cap dead money. Draft your next franchise QB.

None of the QBs in this draft are the next Aaron Rogers
It's a tough call but they better not miss if they do  
NoGainDayne : 3/28/2017 11:37 pm : link
Eli might be in decline but the team blocking / running game was terrible and the predictive formations didn't help the cause.

Here is the thing, the defense is stellar and if healthy could carry a team to the super bowl. Especially if they add another strong talent in the first and second round, like a play making linebacker or a ball hawk at FS.

Also, clearly the Oline, RB and TE positions need help. It's a huge risk to use that premium pick on a QB. Also, if Eli rebounds and plays say two more years (it doesn't really make sense to cut him before than anyway) you are throwing away one year of a rookie contract QB, which makes a big difference and IMO if you draft a QB in the first round and they sit for more than a year you are being a bit financially wasteful.

All that being said my larger point is how many teams have drafted a QB after making the playoffs when they have a SB 2 time or even 1 time super bowl champion at QB? I can't think of any. I think there is a reason for that, better try to load up the talent around that team and QB than move on.
Mahomes has serious talent ...  
Manny in CA : 3/29/2017 12:12 am : link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhuMgle-cFI

The guy has a howitzer for an arm. Those throws backing up & rolling to the left are amazing.

Look at his stats ....

41 TDs and just 10 INTs in a big-time college program

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3139477/patrick-mahomes-ii

Compare those to Eli Manning's college stats ....

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/eli-manning-1.html

McAdoo can turn him into the next Rogers, no doubt.

Thought I'd be in the minority  
Peppers : 3/29/2017 12:18 am : link
but I guess I'm not. I also wouldn't have an issue with drafting a QB.

I like Trubisky and Watson in the 1st. Kizer and Mahomes are 2nds to me. Davis Webb and Peterman are 3rds. Kaaya a 4th. Chad Kelly a 5th.
First round QB decisions are massive ones.  
Jimmy Googs : 3/29/2017 12:22 am : link
And nobody I have read on this thread over the years has that level of proper judgment to suggest accurately whether the pick will work out or not.

So stand down on your affirmations and just give your opinions...
Look  
mrvax : 3/29/2017 12:26 am : link
Drafting a QB in the 1st or 2nd round says the Giants brass believes Eli is in decline. I don't. He has had a defender up his ass in about 2.5 seconds on almost every drop back last year. If Eli can get 3.5 or even 3.0 seconds to pass, then I think we can get an accurate read on him.

Until that happens, no QB is safe with this shit Oline. I'm no GM but I know what I see when I watch 100% of the plays each year.

RE: Except Collins didn't have 2 Super Bowl MVPs  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/29/2017 1:13 am : link
In comment 13410060 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
You won't see BB wasting a first on such an asinine idea. Seriously what is the point? So when Eli is having his over the hill season, we have an unproven bench warmer ready to take our minds off of how badly the season is going? Why not just lose a couple more games in said hypothetical year and be at the top of the draft order? Is it really easier to grab the next Aaron Rodgers and have a seamless transition? History says its not.

First of all, Eli isn't Brady. Not even close, despite their head-to-head record in the Super Bowl. Secondly, it's entirely possible that we just saw Eli's first over the hill season. Players that never get injured still do age, sometimes more rapidly than expected because they have played through aches and pains for a decade or more.

Just because Eli has been an ironman for us doesn't mean that he doesn't ache when he gets out of bed in the morning. And don't underestimate what the front office knows that we don't; it's entirely possible that Eli has told mgmt that he has one or two years left before he retires. He watched his older brother - an NFL ironman himself - deal with severe neck issues. It's not crazy to think that might weigh on him.
After getting jumped by other teams in the draft  
map7711 : 3/29/2017 5:07 am : link
Maybe the Giants have finally learned the art of the bullshit.

Brady was Eli's age when New England drafted Jimmy Garoppolo.  
Big Blue Blogger : 3/29/2017 5:27 am : link
That was a late second-round pick, but the same logic applies. At some point in a franchise QB's aging process, you have to upgrade your contingency and succession plans. I doubt the Giants will do it this year - especially at #23 - but the time is coming.
Mahomes  
micky : 3/29/2017 6:31 am : link
Would be interesting.
I do see Aaron Rodgers qualities in Mahomes  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/29/2017 8:27 am : link
he has very active feet and moves around in the pocket quite well

his throwing looks very accurate and with touch
To frame this discussion, can we agree that 'early'  
jcn56 : 3/29/2017 8:53 am : link
means 1st or 2nd rounder?

If so - does anyone think the QBs in this draft are worthy of a 1st or 2nd round selection? Or rather - if there are 1 or 2 guys that might be, do they last until 23?

I don't see how. If the draft were deeper at QB I don't doubt that the Giants would strongly consider taking Eli's successor even if he's got a couple of years left in the tank, but with this selection and where we're picking, I think 'stronger' just implies 'possible'.
If Watson  
ryanmkeane : 3/29/2017 9:03 am : link
was somehow still available at 23, I'd absolutely love it.
RE: this...  
Carson53 : 3/29/2017 9:38 am : link
In comment 13410081 Torrag said:
Quote:
I'll believe it when I see it.
Ten Ton Hammer : 7:11 pm
Till then, calling it major bs.

Me too.


I concur, don't see it this year.
Need OL, DT, RB, TE, maybe in the 5th?
Of course they have Geno too, LOL.
Hey coach, I know it's the offseason, but puleeeze!
Actually, Mac was just blowing smoke up our ass.
The way he described Geno, you might think he would be
a top 5 pick, again a smokescreen.
RE: I do see Aaron Rodgers qualities in Mahomes  
Carson53 : 3/29/2017 9:57 am : link
In comment 13410269 gidiefor said:
Quote:
he has very active feet and moves around in the pocket quite well

his throwing looks very accurate and with touch
.

I would NOT compare anybody to Rodgers as it relates to throwing a football. I can honestly say after watching this
game for 50+ years, very very very few could throw a ball
in very tight windows like him. That includes throws on the
move, which are just flat out sick. I am not calling the
QB in Green Bay the best ever, what I am saying is he can
make certain throws that I haven't seen other QB's make
EVER! For a guy who is only about 6' 2", great arm strength
and accuracy. Some fans may not like him, I do, as you can see by my commentary.
Joe Montana was a third round pick  
joeinpa : 3/29/2017 10:00 am : link
Tom Brady a 6th. I wonder what those who speak with such certainty about the decision dificiencies of this year s crop would have shared about them.
Translation....  
Giantfan in skinland : 3/29/2017 10:03 am : link
If you're a team ahead of us or picking behind us, you better make sure to grab a QB because we're really thinking about it at #23.

Further translation....

No we're not, but we want as many QBs to go ahead of us as possible.
RE: Joe Montana was a third round pick  
jcn56 : 3/29/2017 10:06 am : link
In comment 13410376 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Tom Brady a 6th. I wonder what those who speak with such certainty about the decision dificiencies of this year s crop would have shared about them.


I think you might have misread the thread title. Take another look.
It's been said succinctly by others  
AcesUp : 3/29/2017 10:21 am : link
For the first time in years, the Giants are in a position to go QB early if that is the BPA (or close). Our QB is 36, coming off his worst year since his maturation and we're picking late in the first. It's common sense.

Will QB be BPA? Who knows, but it's certainly not out of the question. While there's no sure fire top 10 QB in this class, there are about 4-5 guys that stack up as top 50 talents. QB is an extremely subjective position team to team, especially in the age of college spreads. Rule of numbers kind of dictate that the Giants see 1 or 2 of those players as franchise talents.
Every team dreams of the Favre-Rodgers transition  
Heisenberg : 3/29/2017 10:22 am : link
that the packers pulled off, or even Manning-Luck.

If the Giants think there's a guy that can do that there at 23 then they should pick him.
I don't understand fans saying  
larryflower37 : 3/29/2017 10:56 am : link
Giants can't draft a QB early, they have so many other needs.
I think the team is telling you QB is a need position for them, even if you don't agree.
This is the reality, the Giants have a 36 year old QB and will need to replace him in the near future (under 5 years)
Imo there might turn out to be some QB value at 23 and in the 2nd round
Manning-Luck was entirely different than Favre-Rodgers  
widmerseyebrow : 3/29/2017 10:57 am : link
The former is how it should be done imo. Play until the horse breaks down. Then use the down year to draft a QB high. There are exceptions, but for the most part the top QBs in the game were drafted high in the first.

Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?
Jcn 6  
joeinpa : 3/29/2017 11:24 am : link
Wasn't t referring to thread title. Was referencing that few of the draft experts have first round grades on many of these quarterbacks
this is how you get ready for a draft day trade  
YorkAveGiant : 3/29/2017 11:26 am : link
and make out like a bandit as someone will inevitably panic and overpay. you let people know you will draft a QB if available, so teams either jump you to get to the QB or a scenario like....'so trubitsky is available at 23 and we have no QB??, quick call the Giants offer, them this years 2 and next years 1"...happens.
RE: Manning-Luck was entirely different than Favre-Rodgers  
Heisenberg : 3/29/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13410452 widmerseyebrow said:
Quote:
The former is how it should be done imo. Play until the horse breaks down. Then use the down year to draft a QB high. There are exceptions, but for the most part the top QBs in the game were drafted high in the first.

Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?


Well, the point I was trying to make is that everyone wants to avoid the long dark days of not having a QB because it totally hamstrings your organization. With one, you are a contender and without one you are stuck in the mud until you can find one. The Giants would like to avoid the Dave Brown, Danny Kannell, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox purgatory. If they think that one of these QBs is a franchise guy, then a first round pick is a bargain regardless of what draft projections think.

That doesn't mean they should force it, but it's definitely time to be on the lookout for the next guy.
RE: RE: Manning-Luck was entirely different than Favre-Rodgers  
larryflower37 : 3/29/2017 11:43 am : link
In comment 13410495 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
In comment 13410452 widmerseyebrow said:


Quote:


The former is how it should be done IMO. Play until the horse breaks down. Then use the down year to draft a QB high. There are exceptions, but for the most part, the top QBs in the game were drafted high in the first.

Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?



Well, the point I was trying to make is that everyone wants to avoid the long dark days of not having a QB because it totally hamstrings your organization. With one, you are a contender and without one, you are stuck in the mud until you can find one. The Giants would like to avoid the Dave Brown, Danny Kannell, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox purgatory. If they think that one of these QBs is a franchise guy, then a first round pick is a bargain regardless of what draft projections think.

That doesn't mean they should force it, but it's definitely time to be on the lookout for the next guy.


Also, you are not forced to trade away your draft to move up out of desperation.
We were lucky/smart that Manning worked out but if he didn't it could set the franchise back years.
I would much rather draft a QB in a 1st or 2nd round and be wrong now than when our backs are against the wall.
RE: You have to wonder...  
BigBlue1968 : 3/29/2017 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13409899 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
if they are looking for cap savings over the next few years. Will Eli still be able to win games? Undoubtedly yes. Will he be worth his cap hit?

Year - hit/savings if cut
2017 - 19.7MM/none
2018 - 22.2MM/9.8MM
2019 - 23.2MM/17MM

Maybe they would like to replace him after 2018. If so, you kind of have to look this year for his replacement.


I think you hit the nail on the coffin here. In essence, at least from a logical perspective, Eli has 3 years left on his deal, but really a 2-year window left by the Giants since its probable they'd cut him after the 2018 season. Several factors would affect this decision, but with the "dead" money that significantly comes into play with his contract in both 2017 & 2018, it doesn't make financial sense for the Giants to consider cutting him until after the 2018 season.

2017: $19.7 cap / $31.6 dead / ($11.8) savings
2018: $22.2 cap / $12.4 dead / $9.8 savings
2019: $23.2 cap / $6.2 dead / $17 savings

Assuming the Giants have found their QB replacement prior to the 2019 season, cutting Eli would free up $17 million in cap space with only $6.2 in dead money.

Looking ahead to future years, Reese has positioned the Giants to be in very good shape from a salary cap perspective.
RE: RE: Phil  
BigBlue1968 : 3/29/2017 12:10 pm : link
In comment 13409925 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 13409853 Mike B from JC said:


Quote:


What Rd do you see mahomes.going in 5th?



5th? Mahomes isn't getting out of the top 20.


I'm saving this quote for draft banter. Mahomes a Top-20 pick? We shall see about that?
RE: RE: RE: Phil  
larryflower37 : 3/29/2017 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13410541 BigBlue1968 said:
Quote:
In comment 13409925 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


In comment 13409853 Mike B from JC said:


Quote:


What Rd do you see mahomes.going in 5th?



5th? Mahomes isn't getting out of the top 20.



I'm saving this quote for draft banter. Mahomes a Top-20 pick? We shall see about that?


Rumors have him going to Arizona at 13.
A lot of bad comparisons in this thread  
ZogZerg : 3/29/2017 12:32 pm : link
Rodgers was a CLEAR top 10 pick in his draft class, a top prospect, that unexpectedly dropped to the mid 20s. That's an easy pick by Green bay.

This lousy QB class has no clear top 10 prospects. Picking a QB at 23 is rolling the dice on one of these prospects.

Rodgers had a much better chance of succeeding.
Chad Kelley  
NikkiMac : 3/29/2017 12:51 pm : link
or Nate Peterman ?????
RE: No way Giants take a QB in the first or second round  
Mike from Ohio : 3/29/2017 12:52 pm : link
In comment 13410128 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
This is all about Eli's window. You try to win these next 3 years.

After Eli leaves, you tank for a season and clear all your cap dead money. Draft your next franchise QB.

None of the QBs in this draft are the next Aaron Rogers


I can't imagine a worse idea than this. So you purposefully throw a season to get a high pick, and then bet your next several years that whoever comes out in that class is the real deal? Or you do that for 8-10 years until you finally find one? This is the Browns model.

I'm sure nobody working for the Giants (or any NFL team) thinks this way.
RE: RE: You have to wonder...  
Diver_Down : 3/29/2017 1:09 pm : link
In comment 13410537 BigBlue1968 said:
Quote:
In comment 13409899 Dan in the Springs said:


Quote:


if they are looking for cap savings over the next few years. Will Eli still be able to win games? Undoubtedly yes. Will he be worth his cap hit?

Year - hit/savings if cut
2017 - 19.7MM/none
2018 - 22.2MM/9.8MM
2019 - 23.2MM/17MM

Maybe they would like to replace him after 2018. If so, you kind of have to look this year for his replacement.



I think you hit the nail on the coffin here. In essence, at least from a logical perspective, Eli has 3 years left on his deal, but really a 2-year window left by the Giants since its probable they'd cut him after the 2018 season. Several factors would affect this decision, but with the "dead" money that significantly comes into play with his contract in both 2017 & 2018, it doesn't make financial sense for the Giants to consider cutting him until after the 2018 season.

2017: $19.7 cap / $31.6 dead / ($11.8) savings
2018: $22.2 cap / $12.4 dead / $9.8 savings
2019: $23.2 cap / $6.2 dead / $17 savings

Assuming the Giants have found their QB replacement prior to the 2019 season, cutting Eli would free up $17 million in cap space with only $6.2 in dead money.

Looking ahead to future years, Reese has positioned the Giants to be in very good shape from a salary cap perspective.


Not only as you describe above, but in 2018 and 2019, Eli has a roster bonus ($5mil) due on the 3rd day of the league year. Obviously, this year he won't be cut, but in 2018 and 2019, the Giants will make a decision on his availability early in the league year. Safe to assume that if they pay the roster bonus each year, he is playing under center. It is also why I would advocate that Manning hold out in training camp for both of the roster bonuses to be paid up front. Force their hand to commit to him or play out this year and move on to a team willing to pay him.
Well, if we have to draft a qb.......  
Doomster : 3/29/2017 1:23 pm : link


But she will definitely need a better OL.......6 seconds to throw just doesn't cut it.....
What I like about Mahomes ...  
Manny in CA : 3/29/2017 2:35 pm : link

Is that with lousy mechanics he can do what he did at Tech.

Now you put him on a team (the Giants) where you have outstanding QB coaching (good enough to take a Super Bowl winning QB [Eli Manning] and improve his mechanics) - that is a formula for success.

If we don't take him, the Saints will.
RE: Smokescreen  
OC2.0 : 3/29/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13409872 jcn56 said:
Quote:
.


Hello. Maybe trying to reel in a trade partner. SOP this time of the year.
Doomster  
Torrag : 3/29/2017 4:46 pm : link
I'm on board with that pick. Might be your most positive post ever.
smokescreen!  
xtian : 3/30/2017 7:08 pm : link
no way they should take a qb for the next few years. all out for another eli superbowl.
RE: smokescreen!  
blueblood : 3/30/2017 9:35 pm : link
In comment 13412412 xtian said:
Quote:
no way they should take a qb for the next few years. all out for another eli superbowl.


I disagree. They could very well take a QB in the early rounds and to sit him behind Eli for a few years. They time to take a QB is when you arent desperate for one.

The draft should always take the future into consideration. The Giants need to think about that future..
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