Mike Garafolo (@MikeGarafolo)
3/28/17, 6:59 PM
The possibility of the Giants taking a QB high next month is stronger than many believe. Telling quotes from the owners...
I understand Rodgers.....but There are way too many teams with QB needs to allow such a prospect to make it to our pick.
If by chance that happens....Great.
But besides Pittsburgh and SD who is in the same position we are in.....There Is the Jets, Cleveland, Jacksonville, TX, Denver, Arizona, Chicago, and others.....That can not afford to pass on a possible franchise QB.
Totally agree. I think he's a third round talent. But he probably has a higher upside than any other QB. As I have said, Trubisky is the only QB I would consider at #23, and I'm not even sure about him. I'd prefer the Giants not take a QB this year.
that can help the team win this year to worry about a QB for 3 years down the line and the window closed.
RB TE CB LB OL DL can all contribute to a championship this year.
Going off what I've read, some think he might be a late first rounder. I don't think he'll last until 55.
He won't last until #55. But he definitely should. In fact, he should last until our third round pick. Same story every year. The desperate desire for QBs causes teams to overdraft them like no other position. Remember Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel?
And defensive linemen. Two positions this franchise as it's currently run values quite highly. I simply cannot envision them being in love with any of these quarterbacks to the point where it overrides their value system.
They're gonna pass on a first-round pass rusher for Mitch Trubisky or Davis Webb? I'd be stunned beyond measure.
are purposely ignoring the GM, leaks, ownership, and the HC setting the table because of their own sentimental attachments.
It's just also likely the players they'd want or would seriously consider won't be there for them though.
And the only ones who think it's a real possibility are those who believe the FO is thinking of drafting a QB high while broadcasting their intent in every available channel.
If Eli is really washed up and performs worst this coming year then last year and if Geno is not the answer and we don't draft a QB who could within two years lead the Giants, then we're screwed....Like they say the worst time to draft a QB is when you need a QB.....I AM all for drafting a QB in the 23rd pick...especially either in this order, Mahomes, Webb, and then Kizer...Watson scares me, I don't know why, I guess because he has the weakest arm of all the top QBs in this year's draft.
RE: RE: The only people who don't think it's a possibility are the ones who
are purposely ignoring the GM, leaks, ownership, and the HC setting the table because of their own sentimental attachments.
It's just also likely the players they'd want or would seriously consider won't be there for them though.
And the only ones who think it's a real possibility are those who believe the FO is thinking of drafting a QB high while broadcasting their intent in every available channel.
While I doubt they truly think this crop of QB's will present the franchise an opportunity at continuity after Eli Manning, let's not pretend leaks regarding draft targets aren't and haven't been prevalent. Look no further than last spring with Floyd and Conklin.
The Giants are god awful at running smokescreens. That's not
what is going on. What they're doing is the same thing the Steelers, Chargers, and Cardinals are: stating the obvious.
If a QB they have tiered high enough is there for them, it's definitely on the table now. They're not going to force it, but if it happens, it does. It's not like it was even a couple years ago where it obviously wasn't.
RE: The Giants are god awful at running smokescreens. That's not
what is going on. What they're doing is the same thing the Steelers, Chargers, and Cardinals are: stating the obvious.
If a QB they have tiered high enough is there for them, it's definitely on the table now. They're not going to force it, but if it happens, it does. It's not like it was even a couple years ago where it obviously wasn't.
This sums it up nicely. If a guy they have highly rated is there, they may pull the trigger if he represents BPA.
A total reach. I like Mahomes better than most on here it seems. I think if he sat behind Manning for a couple of years, he'd be ready to take over. Good arm with good mobility. A bit of a gambler, but that can be toned down.
I have a problem with picking a QB early this year, though. It's a lousy group to pick from. Watson is the only one I like at all, because he's tough and a winner, but I wouldn't pick him any higher than the 3rd.
you can not waste a draft pick on a QB. Too Many holes.
1st round has to contribute this year.
2nd has to be a guy who is ready next year.
3rd round has to be a guy who can be a part of this team next year.
4-7 is a crap shoot. depth and projects.
And defensive linemen. Two positions this franchise as it's currently run values quite highly. I simply cannot envision them being in love with any of these quarterbacks to the point where it overrides their value system.
They're gonna pass on a first-round pass rusher for Mitch Trubisky or Davis Webb? I'd be stunned beyond measure.
I think the depth at DL and DB are actually part of the reason why a QB is a possibility (but only if the front office has a worthy grade on the particular QB). If they think they can get the equivalent of a 1st round DL in the 2nd and/or a 2nd round DB in the 3rd (or vice versa), that could free them up to look long and hard at a QB early in the draft.
That's not to say they will or won't take one, just that the depth at their historically preferred positions could cause some deviation from the norm early on. I think that's also why we're seeing speculation about LB and TE in the 1st as well.
I don't see a first round lock franchise QB in this years bunch. That is not to say drafting a QB would be stupid. I like Webb and Peterman. The first round would be nuts for either of those players. In addition, it would fuck up the whole team, causing dissension and the kind of lunacy that would ruin the present, and any young qb's ability to develop. This is the year we need a good smokescreen. I don't want some asshole trading up to get Lamp or some other lineman we have targeted. So I hope that is what this is.
I would have zero issue with the Giants taking a QB
in round one. Everyone has convinced themselves that Eli has 2-3 years left.. He might not... I think its not such a bad idea to draft a QB and have him sit for a year or two..
Im not advocating it.. but I could completely understand the move.
It also makes sense to send out as MUCH information that the Giants are interested in taking a QB.. possibly can get one of the teams lower down.. Arizona.. KC... to move up and get one..
is the only QB I'm sure will be gone by #23. But Mahomes and Watson could easily be gone as well. KC, NO, and SD could all take a QB. Their current QBs are all aging. The Saints brought Mahomes in for a private visit. The Texans could also trade up in front of us.
KIzer and Webb will be available at #23. I wouldn't take either, but both could be gone by the end of the first round. Peterman goes in the second.
This is a bad year for QBs, but six will likely be gone by #55. At that point, you're left with Kaaya, Evans, Torgersen, etc. on day three.
When Tiki Barber and Mike Strahan were incensed that the Giants took a rookie QB instead of extending Kerry Collins when TC took over? Remember the anger at the time to teach a young QB, we have a team ready to contend..etc etc etc? What was it, 4 years later and Mr. Strahan had a ring when he thought he was too old to let a rookie come in? Let that sink in for a minute before you all start lighting the torches and sharpening the pitchforks.
if "our guy" lasts that long. Not sure who our guy is, but I bet that McAdoo would love a more mobile QB. Hopefully he'd only go with one that he thinks will have Eli's intelligence, work effort and ability to read defenses.
You won't see BB wasting a first on such an asinine idea. Seriously what is the point? So when Eli is having his over the hill season, we have an unproven bench warmer ready to take our minds off of how badly the season is going? Why not just lose a couple more games in said hypothetical year and be at the top of the draft order? Is it really easier to grab the next Aaron Rodgers and have a seamless transition? History says its not.
is a little different than trading ip to grab the #1 player in the draft whom the GM strongly believed to be a QB that was a franchise maker.
Not saying the Giants shouldn't grab a QB in round two of they really believed Eli's replacement was available but still very different scenario than when the Giants drafted Eli.
Eli might be in decline but the team blocking / running game was terrible and the predictive formations didn't help the cause.
Here is the thing, the defense is stellar and if healthy could carry a team to the super bowl. Especially if they add another strong talent in the first and second round, like a play making linebacker or a ball hawk at FS.
Also, clearly the Oline, RB and TE positions need help. It's a huge risk to use that premium pick on a QB. Also, if Eli rebounds and plays say two more years (it doesn't really make sense to cut him before than anyway) you are throwing away one year of a rookie contract QB, which makes a big difference and IMO if you draft a QB in the first round and they sit for more than a year you are being a bit financially wasteful.
All that being said my larger point is how many teams have drafted a QB after making the playoffs when they have a SB 2 time or even 1 time super bowl champion at QB? I can't think of any. I think there is a reason for that, better try to load up the talent around that team and QB than move on.
Drafting a QB in the 1st or 2nd round says the Giants brass believes Eli is in decline. I don't. He has had a defender up his ass in about 2.5 seconds on almost every drop back last year. If Eli can get 3.5 or even 3.0 seconds to pass, then I think we can get an accurate read on him.
Until that happens, no QB is safe with this shit Oline. I'm no GM but I know what I see when I watch 100% of the plays each year.
You won't see BB wasting a first on such an asinine idea. Seriously what is the point? So when Eli is having his over the hill season, we have an unproven bench warmer ready to take our minds off of how badly the season is going? Why not just lose a couple more games in said hypothetical year and be at the top of the draft order? Is it really easier to grab the next Aaron Rodgers and have a seamless transition? History says its not.
First of all, Eli isn't Brady. Not even close, despite their head-to-head record in the Super Bowl. Secondly, it's entirely possible that we just saw Eli's first over the hill season. Players that never get injured still do age, sometimes more rapidly than expected because they have played through aches and pains for a decade or more.
Just because Eli has been an ironman for us doesn't mean that he doesn't ache when he gets out of bed in the morning. And don't underestimate what the front office knows that we don't; it's entirely possible that Eli has told mgmt that he has one or two years left before he retires. He watched his older brother - an NFL ironman himself - deal with severe neck issues. It's not crazy to think that might weigh on him.
That was a late second-round pick, but the same logic applies. At some point in a franchise QB's aging process, you have to upgrade your contingency and succession plans. I doubt the Giants will do it this year - especially at #23 - but the time is coming.
If so - does anyone think the QBs in this draft are worthy of a 1st or 2nd round selection? Or rather - if there are 1 or 2 guys that might be, do they last until 23?
I don't see how. If the draft were deeper at QB I don't doubt that the Giants would strongly consider taking Eli's successor even if he's got a couple of years left in the tank, but with this selection and where we're picking, I think 'stronger' just implies 'possible'.
I'll believe it when I see it.
Ten Ton Hammer : 7:11 pm
Till then, calling it major bs.
Me too.
I concur, don't see it this year.
Need OL, DT, RB, TE, maybe in the 5th?
Of course they have Geno too, LOL.
Hey coach, I know it's the offseason, but puleeeze!
Actually, Mac was just blowing smoke up our ass.
The way he described Geno, you might think he would be
a top 5 pick, again a smokescreen.
he has very active feet and moves around in the pocket quite well
his throwing looks very accurate and with touch
.
I would NOT compare anybody to Rodgers as it relates to throwing a football. I can honestly say after watching this
game for 50+ years, very very very few could throw a ball
in very tight windows like him. That includes throws on the
move, which are just flat out sick. I am not calling the
QB in Green Bay the best ever, what I am saying is he can
make certain throws that I haven't seen other QB's make
EVER! For a guy who is only about 6' 2", great arm strength
and accuracy. Some fans may not like him, I do, as you can see by my commentary.
For the first time in years, the Giants are in a position to go QB early if that is the BPA (or close). Our QB is 36, coming off his worst year since his maturation and we're picking late in the first. It's common sense.
Will QB be BPA? Who knows, but it's certainly not out of the question. While there's no sure fire top 10 QB in this class, there are about 4-5 guys that stack up as top 50 talents. QB is an extremely subjective position team to team, especially in the age of college spreads. Rule of numbers kind of dictate that the Giants see 1 or 2 of those players as franchise talents.
Giants can't draft a QB early, they have so many other needs.
I think the team is telling you QB is a need position for them, even if you don't agree.
This is the reality, the Giants have a 36 year old QB and will need to replace him in the near future (under 5 years)
Imo there might turn out to be some QB value at 23 and in the 2nd round
Manning-Luck was entirely different than Favre-Rodgers
The former is how it should be done imo. Play until the horse breaks down. Then use the down year to draft a QB high. There are exceptions, but for the most part the top QBs in the game were drafted high in the first.
Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?
and make out like a bandit as someone will inevitably panic and overpay. you let people know you will draft a QB if available, so teams either jump you to get to the QB or a scenario like....'so trubitsky is available at 23 and we have no QB??, quick call the Giants offer, them this years 2 and next years 1"...happens.
RE: Manning-Luck was entirely different than Favre-Rodgers
The former is how it should be done imo. Play until the horse breaks down. Then use the down year to draft a QB high. There are exceptions, but for the most part the top QBs in the game were drafted high in the first.
Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?
Well, the point I was trying to make is that everyone wants to avoid the long dark days of not having a QB because it totally hamstrings your organization. With one, you are a contender and without one you are stuck in the mud until you can find one. The Giants would like to avoid the Dave Brown, Danny Kannell, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox purgatory. If they think that one of these QBs is a franchise guy, then a first round pick is a bargain regardless of what draft projections think.
That doesn't mean they should force it, but it's definitely time to be on the lookout for the next guy.
RE: RE: Manning-Luck was entirely different than Favre-Rodgers
The former is how it should be done IMO. Play until the horse breaks down. Then use the down year to draft a QB high. There are exceptions, but for the most part, the top QBs in the game were drafted high in the first.
Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?
Well, the point I was trying to make is that everyone wants to avoid the long dark days of not having a QB because it totally hamstrings your organization. With one, you are a contender and without one, you are stuck in the mud until you can find one. The Giants would like to avoid the Dave Brown, Danny Kannell, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox purgatory. If they think that one of these QBs is a franchise guy, then a first round pick is a bargain regardless of what draft projections think.
That doesn't mean they should force it, but it's definitely time to be on the lookout for the next guy.
Also, you are not forced to trade away your draft to move up out of desperation.
We were lucky/smart that Manning worked out but if he didn't it could set the franchise back years.
I would much rather draft a QB in a 1st or 2nd round and be wrong now than when our backs are against the wall.
if they are looking for cap savings over the next few years. Will Eli still be able to win games? Undoubtedly yes. Will he be worth his cap hit?
Year - hit/savings if cut
2017 - 19.7MM/none
2018 - 22.2MM/9.8MM
2019 - 23.2MM/17MM
Maybe they would like to replace him after 2018. If so, you kind of have to look this year for his replacement.
I think you hit the nail on the coffin here. In essence, at least from a logical perspective, Eli has 3 years left on his deal, but really a 2-year window left by the Giants since its probable they'd cut him after the 2018 season. Several factors would affect this decision, but with the "dead" money that significantly comes into play with his contract in both 2017 & 2018, it doesn't make financial sense for the Giants to consider cutting him until after the 2018 season.
2017: $19.7 cap / $31.6 dead / ($11.8) savings
2018: $22.2 cap / $12.4 dead / $9.8 savings
2019: $23.2 cap / $6.2 dead / $17 savings
Assuming the Giants have found their QB replacement prior to the 2019 season, cutting Eli would free up $17 million in cap space with only $6.2 in dead money.
Looking ahead to future years, Reese has positioned the Giants to be in very good shape from a salary cap perspective.
This is all about Eli's window. You try to win these next 3 years.
After Eli leaves, you tank for a season and clear all your cap dead money. Draft your next franchise QB.
None of the QBs in this draft are the next Aaron Rogers
I can't imagine a worse idea than this. So you purposefully throw a season to get a high pick, and then bet your next several years that whoever comes out in that class is the real deal? Or you do that for 8-10 years until you finally find one? This is the Browns model.
I'm sure nobody working for the Giants (or any NFL team) thinks this way.
if they are looking for cap savings over the next few years. Will Eli still be able to win games? Undoubtedly yes. Will he be worth his cap hit?
Year - hit/savings if cut
2017 - 19.7MM/none
2018 - 22.2MM/9.8MM
2019 - 23.2MM/17MM
Maybe they would like to replace him after 2018. If so, you kind of have to look this year for his replacement.
I think you hit the nail on the coffin here. In essence, at least from a logical perspective, Eli has 3 years left on his deal, but really a 2-year window left by the Giants since its probable they'd cut him after the 2018 season. Several factors would affect this decision, but with the "dead" money that significantly comes into play with his contract in both 2017 & 2018, it doesn't make financial sense for the Giants to consider cutting him until after the 2018 season.
2017: $19.7 cap / $31.6 dead / ($11.8) savings
2018: $22.2 cap / $12.4 dead / $9.8 savings
2019: $23.2 cap / $6.2 dead / $17 savings
Assuming the Giants have found their QB replacement prior to the 2019 season, cutting Eli would free up $17 million in cap space with only $6.2 in dead money.
Looking ahead to future years, Reese has positioned the Giants to be in very good shape from a salary cap perspective.
Not only as you describe above, but in 2018 and 2019, Eli has a roster bonus ($5mil) due on the 3rd day of the league year. Obviously, this year he won't be cut, but in 2018 and 2019, the Giants will make a decision on his availability early in the league year. Safe to assume that if they pay the roster bonus each year, he is playing under center. It is also why I would advocate that Manning hold out in training camp for both of the roster bonuses to be paid up front. Force their hand to commit to him or play out this year and move on to a team willing to pay him.
Is that with lousy mechanics he can do what he did at Tech.
Now you put him on a team (the Giants) where you have outstanding QB coaching (good enough to take a Super Bowl winning QB [Eli Manning] and improve his mechanics) - that is a formula for success.
no way they should take a qb for the next few years. all out for another eli superbowl.
I disagree. They could very well take a QB in the early rounds and to sit him behind Eli for a few years. They time to take a QB is when you arent desperate for one.
The draft should always take the future into consideration. The Giants need to think about that future..
It's just also likely the players they'd want or would seriously consider won't be there for them though.
If they really feel this way, I'd take Davis Webb in the 2nd round.
If by chance that happens....Great.
But besides Pittsburgh and SD who is in the same position we are in.....There Is the Jets, Cleveland, Jacksonville, TX, Denver, Arizona, Chicago, and others.....That can not afford to pass on a possible franchise QB.
Totally agree. I think he's a third round talent. But he probably has a higher upside than any other QB. As I have said, Trubisky is the only QB I would consider at #23, and I'm not even sure about him. I'd prefer the Giants not take a QB this year.
RB TE CB LB OL DL can all contribute to a championship this year.
He won't last until #55. But he definitely should. In fact, he should last until our third round pick. Same story every year. The desperate desire for QBs causes teams to overdraft them like no other position. Remember Christian Ponder and E.J. Manuel?
They're gonna pass on a first-round pass rusher for Mitch Trubisky or Davis Webb? I'd be stunned beyond measure.
It's just also likely the players they'd want or would seriously consider won't be there for them though.
And the only ones who think it's a real possibility are those who believe the FO is thinking of drafting a QB high while broadcasting their intent in every available channel.
Quote:
are purposely ignoring the GM, leaks, ownership, and the HC setting the table because of their own sentimental attachments.
It's just also likely the players they'd want or would seriously consider won't be there for them though.
And the only ones who think it's a real possibility are those who believe the FO is thinking of drafting a QB high while broadcasting their intent in every available channel.
While I doubt they truly think this crop of QB's will present the franchise an opportunity at continuity after Eli Manning, let's not pretend leaks regarding draft targets aren't and haven't been prevalent. Look no further than last spring with Floyd and Conklin.
If a QB they have tiered high enough is there for them, it's definitely on the table now. They're not going to force it, but if it happens, it does. It's not like it was even a couple years ago where it obviously wasn't.
If a QB they have tiered high enough is there for them, it's definitely on the table now. They're not going to force it, but if it happens, it does. It's not like it was even a couple years ago where it obviously wasn't.
This sums it up nicely. If a guy they have highly rated is there, they may pull the trigger if he represents BPA.
Year - hit/savings if cut
2017 - 19.7MM/none
2018 - 22.2MM/9.8MM
2019 - 23.2MM/17MM
Maybe they would like to replace him after 2018. If so, you kind of have to look this year for his replacement.
Year - hit/savings if cut
2017 - 19.7MM/none
2018 - 22.2MM/9.8MM
2019 - 23.2MM/17MM
Maybe they would like to replace him after 2018. If so, you kind of have to look this year for his replacement.
Any chance Mac wants his own guy with a little mobility?
It would not be the first time a new coach wants his guy.
I heard Phil Simms say he thought Webb would be a great fit for the Giants offense.
5th? Mahomes isn't getting out of the top 20.
1st round has to contribute this year.
2nd has to be a guy who is ready next year.
3rd round has to be a guy who can be a part of this team next year.
4-7 is a crap shoot. depth and projects.
Exactly. This better be horseshit. Qbs this year blow compared to next. And we can afford to wait.
They're gonna pass on a first-round pass rusher for Mitch Trubisky or Davis Webb? I'd be stunned beyond measure.
I think the depth at DL and DB are actually part of the reason why a QB is a possibility (but only if the front office has a worthy grade on the particular QB). If they think they can get the equivalent of a 1st round DL in the 2nd and/or a 2nd round DB in the 3rd (or vice versa), that could free them up to look long and hard at a QB early in the draft.
That's not to say they will or won't take one, just that the depth at their historically preferred positions could cause some deviation from the norm early on. I think that's also why we're seeing speculation about LB and TE in the 1st as well.
Im not advocating it.. but I could completely understand the move.
It also makes sense to send out as MUCH information that the Giants are interested in taking a QB.. possibly can get one of the teams lower down.. Arizona.. KC... to move up and get one..
KIzer and Webb will be available at #23. I wouldn't take either, but both could be gone by the end of the first round. Peterman goes in the second.
This is a bad year for QBs, but six will likely be gone by #55. At that point, you're left with Kaaya, Evans, Torgersen, etc. on day three.
Not saying the Giants shouldn't grab a QB in round two of they really believed Eli's replacement was available but still very different scenario than when the Giants drafted Eli.
Ten Ton Hammer : 7:11 pm
Till then, calling it major bs.
Me too.
After Eli leaves, you tank for a season and clear all your cap dead money. Draft your next franchise QB.
None of the QBs in this draft are the next Aaron Rogers
Here is the thing, the defense is stellar and if healthy could carry a team to the super bowl. Especially if they add another strong talent in the first and second round, like a play making linebacker or a ball hawk at FS.
Also, clearly the Oline, RB and TE positions need help. It's a huge risk to use that premium pick on a QB. Also, if Eli rebounds and plays say two more years (it doesn't really make sense to cut him before than anyway) you are throwing away one year of a rookie contract QB, which makes a big difference and IMO if you draft a QB in the first round and they sit for more than a year you are being a bit financially wasteful.
All that being said my larger point is how many teams have drafted a QB after making the playoffs when they have a SB 2 time or even 1 time super bowl champion at QB? I can't think of any. I think there is a reason for that, better try to load up the talent around that team and QB than move on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhuMgle-cFI
The guy has a howitzer for an arm. Those throws backing up & rolling to the left are amazing.
Look at his stats ....
41 TDs and just 10 INTs in a big-time college program
http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/3139477/patrick-mahomes-ii
Compare those to Eli Manning's college stats ....
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/eli-manning-1.html
McAdoo can turn him into the next Rogers, no doubt.
I like Trubisky and Watson in the 1st. Kizer and Mahomes are 2nds to me. Davis Webb and Peterman are 3rds. Kaaya a 4th. Chad Kelly a 5th.
So stand down on your affirmations and just give your opinions...
Until that happens, no QB is safe with this shit Oline. I'm no GM but I know what I see when I watch 100% of the plays each year.
First of all, Eli isn't Brady. Not even close, despite their head-to-head record in the Super Bowl. Secondly, it's entirely possible that we just saw Eli's first over the hill season. Players that never get injured still do age, sometimes more rapidly than expected because they have played through aches and pains for a decade or more.
Just because Eli has been an ironman for us doesn't mean that he doesn't ache when he gets out of bed in the morning. And don't underestimate what the front office knows that we don't; it's entirely possible that Eli has told mgmt that he has one or two years left before he retires. He watched his older brother - an NFL ironman himself - deal with severe neck issues. It's not crazy to think that might weigh on him.
his throwing looks very accurate and with touch
If so - does anyone think the QBs in this draft are worthy of a 1st or 2nd round selection? Or rather - if there are 1 or 2 guys that might be, do they last until 23?
I don't see how. If the draft were deeper at QB I don't doubt that the Giants would strongly consider taking Eli's successor even if he's got a couple of years left in the tank, but with this selection and where we're picking, I think 'stronger' just implies 'possible'.
Ten Ton Hammer : 7:11 pm
Till then, calling it major bs.
Me too.
I concur, don't see it this year.
Need OL, DT, RB, TE, maybe in the 5th?
Of course they have Geno too, LOL.
Hey coach, I know it's the offseason, but puleeeze!
Actually, Mac was just blowing smoke up our ass.
The way he described Geno, you might think he would be
a top 5 pick, again a smokescreen.
his throwing looks very accurate and with touch
I would NOT compare anybody to Rodgers as it relates to throwing a football. I can honestly say after watching this
game for 50+ years, very very very few could throw a ball
in very tight windows like him. That includes throws on the
move, which are just flat out sick. I am not calling the
QB in Green Bay the best ever, what I am saying is he can
make certain throws that I haven't seen other QB's make
EVER! For a guy who is only about 6' 2", great arm strength
and accuracy. Some fans may not like him, I do, as you can see by my commentary.
Further translation....
No we're not, but we want as many QBs to go ahead of us as possible.
I think you might have misread the thread title. Take another look.
Will QB be BPA? Who knows, but it's certainly not out of the question. While there's no sure fire top 10 QB in this class, there are about 4-5 guys that stack up as top 50 talents. QB is an extremely subjective position team to team, especially in the age of college spreads. Rule of numbers kind of dictate that the Giants see 1 or 2 of those players as franchise talents.
If the Giants think there's a guy that can do that there at 23 then they should pick him.
I think the team is telling you QB is a need position for them, even if you don't agree.
This is the reality, the Giants have a 36 year old QB and will need to replace him in the near future (under 5 years)
Imo there might turn out to be some QB value at 23 and in the 2nd round
Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?
Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?
Well, the point I was trying to make is that everyone wants to avoid the long dark days of not having a QB because it totally hamstrings your organization. With one, you are a contender and without one you are stuck in the mud until you can find one. The Giants would like to avoid the Dave Brown, Danny Kannell, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox purgatory. If they think that one of these QBs is a franchise guy, then a first round pick is a bargain regardless of what draft projections think.
That doesn't mean they should force it, but it's definitely time to be on the lookout for the next guy.
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The former is how it should be done IMO. Play until the horse breaks down. Then use the down year to draft a QB high. There are exceptions, but for the most part, the top QBs in the game were drafted high in the first.
Rodgers was projected by draftniks to go top 5. He fell to where he did because of an extraordinary set of circumstances. Packers felt compelled to take him on value alone. The quarterbacks that are being discussed for the Giants are valued in the opposite direction i.e. which one can you reasonable get away with reaching for at the end of the first round?
Well, the point I was trying to make is that everyone wants to avoid the long dark days of not having a QB because it totally hamstrings your organization. With one, you are a contender and without one, you are stuck in the mud until you can find one. The Giants would like to avoid the Dave Brown, Danny Kannell, Kent Graham, Tommy Maddox purgatory. If they think that one of these QBs is a franchise guy, then a first round pick is a bargain regardless of what draft projections think.
That doesn't mean they should force it, but it's definitely time to be on the lookout for the next guy.
Also, you are not forced to trade away your draft to move up out of desperation.
We were lucky/smart that Manning worked out but if he didn't it could set the franchise back years.
I would much rather draft a QB in a 1st or 2nd round and be wrong now than when our backs are against the wall.
Year - hit/savings if cut
2017 - 19.7MM/none
2018 - 22.2MM/9.8MM
2019 - 23.2MM/17MM
Maybe they would like to replace him after 2018. If so, you kind of have to look this year for his replacement.
I think you hit the nail on the coffin here. In essence, at least from a logical perspective, Eli has 3 years left on his deal, but really a 2-year window left by the Giants since its probable they'd cut him after the 2018 season. Several factors would affect this decision, but with the "dead" money that significantly comes into play with his contract in both 2017 & 2018, it doesn't make financial sense for the Giants to consider cutting him until after the 2018 season.
2017: $19.7 cap / $31.6 dead / ($11.8) savings
2018: $22.2 cap / $12.4 dead / $9.8 savings
2019: $23.2 cap / $6.2 dead / $17 savings
Assuming the Giants have found their QB replacement prior to the 2019 season, cutting Eli would free up $17 million in cap space with only $6.2 in dead money.
Looking ahead to future years, Reese has positioned the Giants to be in very good shape from a salary cap perspective.
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What Rd do you see mahomes.going in 5th?
5th? Mahomes isn't getting out of the top 20.
I'm saving this quote for draft banter. Mahomes a Top-20 pick? We shall see about that?
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In comment 13409853 Mike B from JC said:
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What Rd do you see mahomes.going in 5th?
5th? Mahomes isn't getting out of the top 20.
I'm saving this quote for draft banter. Mahomes a Top-20 pick? We shall see about that?
Rumors have him going to Arizona at 13.
This lousy QB class has no clear top 10 prospects. Picking a QB at 23 is rolling the dice on one of these prospects.
Rodgers had a much better chance of succeeding.
After Eli leaves, you tank for a season and clear all your cap dead money. Draft your next franchise QB.
None of the QBs in this draft are the next Aaron Rogers
I can't imagine a worse idea than this. So you purposefully throw a season to get a high pick, and then bet your next several years that whoever comes out in that class is the real deal? Or you do that for 8-10 years until you finally find one? This is the Browns model.
I'm sure nobody working for the Giants (or any NFL team) thinks this way.
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if they are looking for cap savings over the next few years. Will Eli still be able to win games? Undoubtedly yes. Will he be worth his cap hit?
Year - hit/savings if cut
2017 - 19.7MM/none
2018 - 22.2MM/9.8MM
2019 - 23.2MM/17MM
Maybe they would like to replace him after 2018. If so, you kind of have to look this year for his replacement.
I think you hit the nail on the coffin here. In essence, at least from a logical perspective, Eli has 3 years left on his deal, but really a 2-year window left by the Giants since its probable they'd cut him after the 2018 season. Several factors would affect this decision, but with the "dead" money that significantly comes into play with his contract in both 2017 & 2018, it doesn't make financial sense for the Giants to consider cutting him until after the 2018 season.
2017: $19.7 cap / $31.6 dead / ($11.8) savings
2018: $22.2 cap / $12.4 dead / $9.8 savings
2019: $23.2 cap / $6.2 dead / $17 savings
Assuming the Giants have found their QB replacement prior to the 2019 season, cutting Eli would free up $17 million in cap space with only $6.2 in dead money.
Looking ahead to future years, Reese has positioned the Giants to be in very good shape from a salary cap perspective.
Not only as you describe above, but in 2018 and 2019, Eli has a roster bonus ($5mil) due on the 3rd day of the league year. Obviously, this year he won't be cut, but in 2018 and 2019, the Giants will make a decision on his availability early in the league year. Safe to assume that if they pay the roster bonus each year, he is playing under center. It is also why I would advocate that Manning hold out in training camp for both of the roster bonuses to be paid up front. Force their hand to commit to him or play out this year and move on to a team willing to pay him.
But she will definitely need a better OL.......6 seconds to throw just doesn't cut it.....
Is that with lousy mechanics he can do what he did at Tech.
Now you put him on a team (the Giants) where you have outstanding QB coaching (good enough to take a Super Bowl winning QB [Eli Manning] and improve his mechanics) - that is a formula for success.
If we don't take him, the Saints will.
Hello. Maybe trying to reel in a trade partner. SOP this time of the year.
I disagree. They could very well take a QB in the early rounds and to sit him behind Eli for a few years. They time to take a QB is when you arent desperate for one.
The draft should always take the future into consideration. The Giants need to think about that future..