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Anything on Cruz?

Danny Kanell : 3/29/2017 8:45 am
Just curious if anyone has heard anything on Cruz? It doesn't seem like there's been any rumors of landing spots for him since free agency began. Obviously we had to cut him due to his contract but I'm surprised if he's not even getting a look from teams (maybe he his and it's just been quiet). It wasn't like he was completely unproductive last year in his first year back.
Is the hunger still there?  
JonC : 3/29/2017 8:48 am : link
He's 30, he's a multi-millionaire with a ring and options away from football.
Last I heard  
mattlawson : 3/29/2017 8:50 am : link
He visited Carolina.
I think the market for him would be a lot like Nicks post-injury  
jcn56 : 3/29/2017 8:51 am : link
Around the time when camps start, he'll be a 'wait and see' type if anyone gets injured.

Unfortunately, I think that injury put Cruz in the same basket as Nicks, and he won't ever be the same player again.
RE: I think the market for him would be a lot like Nicks post-injury  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/29/2017 8:53 am : link
In comment 13410284 jcn56 said:
Quote:
Around the time when camps start, he'll be a 'wait and see' type if anyone gets injured.

Unfortunately, I think that injury put Cruz in the same basket as Nicks, and he won't ever be the same player again.


This is a make or break year for him. He is 3 years removed from the knee injury and has had more then 2 years to actually train and rehab it.

He could possibly play better this year, but it all depends if someone picks him up.
A team in need of depth in the slot should sign him...  
Torrag : 3/29/2017 8:59 am : link
...as insurance. Maybe he'll holdup to the constant CoD and contact. More likely he won't. I wish him well but he should consider retiring.
RE: Is the hunger still there?  
stillpoe : 3/29/2017 9:02 am : link
In comment 13410281 JonC said:
Quote:
He's 30, he's a multi-millionaire with a ring and options away from football.


That's probably the biggest question. As a player, I still think he's serviceable in the slot. He didn't have the same quickness in and out of cuts like he did during his prime, but I think he still has enough to be a solid backup. I personally would love him back at a reasonable cost. Injuries are unavoidable and it would help to have someone who knows the system as part of the rotation.
He had a visit  
SimpleMan : 3/29/2017 9:04 am : link
with Carolina pretty quickly after he got cut from the Giants. There is the Gettleman connection there.
Link - ( New Window )
My guess is he'll pop up somewhere once someone goes  
Blue21 : 3/29/2017 9:11 am : link
down with an injury. Not with the Giants though.
He'll get some looks from  
mrvax : 3/29/2017 9:16 am : link
a team that needs a slot receiver and didn't solve their hole via the draft.

I think he's probably lost his quickness.
RE: He had a visit  
Toth029 : 3/29/2017 9:25 am : link
In comment 13410303 SimpleMan said:
Quote:
with Carolina pretty quickly after he got cut from the Giants. There is the Gettleman connection there. Link - ( New Window )


Panthers signed former Bucs WR Russell Shepard, who will probably be their slot WR.
I know the widespread sentiment by heartfelt fans here is different  
27 : 3/29/2017 9:26 am : link
but I watched Cruz play on my team last year and I wouldn't want him on my roster for 2017 if I was an NFL team
RE: Is the hunger still there?  
Reese's Pieces : 3/29/2017 9:29 am : link
In comment 13410281 JonC said:
Quote:
He's 30, he's a multi-millionaire with a ring and options away from football.


Cruz goes through two years of ball-busting rehab to get back to his team as soon as possible and you want to know if the desire is still there?

He complains that he's not getting the ball thrown to him and he's called selfish and a bad teammate.

The Giants are a bit more than a half away from the end of their 2011 season and playing like they didn't much care when one electrifying play turns the game around and sets up a postseason that we'll be re-watching for the rest of our lives.

There's no loyalty any more, not from the teams, the players or the fans.
RE: I know the widespread sentiment by heartfelt fans here is different  
ManningLobsItBurressAlone : 3/29/2017 9:31 am : link
In comment 13410324 27 said:
Quote:
but I watched Cruz play on my team last year and I wouldn't want him on my roster for 2017 if I was an NFL team


Ding ding. We'll always remember Cruz for what he was a few years back. Explosive young player that came out of nowhere to have 2 of the more productive seasons we've ever had at WR.

But the current state of Cruz is he simply can't play at that level, as sad/mean as that is. On a pass heavy offense (#8 in the NFL in pass attempts), and as the #2 WR on the team he totaled only 39 catches. 16 of those came in the first 4 games of the season. Over the final 3/4 of the season he averaged less than 2 catches per game.
He didn't lose as much speed,  
Doomster : 3/29/2017 9:31 am : link
straight ahead, that is, because he was never a burner....but he rounded his cuts off, and that's why there was no separation.....

I remember, when Nicks went down, and he was moved out of the slot, he did not perform well....

With another year of healing, possibly playing in the slot rather than WR, who knows? And the big question is, does he really want it?

I must be getting sentimental in my old age....let him come to camp, if he wants to for vet min, and see if he can "win" a job as backup to SS....
I don't think Jon is suggesting Cruz is mailing it in  
jcn56 : 3/29/2017 9:32 am : link
Just that the lack of interest on teams' part could just as well be Cruz not being as interested.

The only visit he's had so far was with Carolina, whose GM he's familiar with from his time with the Giants. So now you have to ask, is that for lack of effort on Cruz/his agents part, or have teams seen enough of Cruz to know that he's a fallback option to be considered only after the draft and injuries are factored in?

Only time will tell.
I think teams will wait until after the draft  
Section331 : 3/29/2017 9:34 am : link
before considering VC. He looks done, maybe another year of recovery and workouts will bring back some of his quickness, but I don't think teams are going to count on that.
RE: RE: I know the widespread sentiment by heartfelt fans here is different  
Johnny5 : 3/29/2017 9:46 am : link
In comment 13410329 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
Quote:
In comment 13410324 27 said:


Quote:


but I watched Cruz play on my team last year and I wouldn't want him on my roster for 2017 if I was an NFL team



Ding ding. We'll always remember Cruz for what he was a few years back. Explosive young player that came out of nowhere to have 2 of the more productive seasons we've ever had at WR.

But the current state of Cruz is he simply can't play at that level, as sad/mean as that is. On a pass heavy offense (#8 in the NFL in pass attempts), and as the #2 WR on the team he totaled only 39 catches. 16 of those came in the first 4 games of the season. Over the final 3/4 of the season he averaged less than 2 catches per game.

I still disagree with this assessment. He is a slot receiver and should be in the slot. He was never effective on the outside. But JonC has it right IMO. Is the desire there? If so, I think he can still play slot on another team effectively.
RE: Is the hunger still there?  
Danny Kanell : 3/29/2017 9:51 am : link
In comment 13410281 JonC said:
Quote:
He's 30, he's a multi-millionaire with a ring and options away from football.


I think there's some truth to this, no doubt. I wonder if he did have a lack of desire, it would be more due to worrying about getting hurt again as opposed to his off the field options (or a combination of both). The "pep talk" he needed to get on the field in the preseason last year always stuck with me.
he's done  
annexOPR : 3/29/2017 9:55 am : link
it was fun. he's set for life. thanks for everything, i'l never forget the 99 yarder vs the Jets
RE: RE: Is the hunger still there?  
JonC : 3/29/2017 9:56 am : link
In comment 13410362 Danny Kanell said:
Quote:
In comment 13410281 JonC said:


Quote:


He's 30, he's a multi-millionaire with a ring and options away from football.



I think there's some truth to this, no doubt. I wonder if he did have a lack of desire, it would be more due to worrying about getting hurt again as opposed to his off the field options (or a combination of both). The "pep talk" he needed to get on the field in the preseason last year always stuck with me.


There was a different energy to him during interviews, to my eye. At the time, I figured it was joy and relief to get back on the field. But, as the season wore on he disappeared far too often ... was it he's no longer the same player or was it a degree of surrender.
Just another  
area junc : 3/29/2017 9:56 am : link
example of us giving way too much PT to a guy who shouldnt be in the NFL, a la Randle, Kuhn, Andre Williams etc. and now we are doing the same thing keeping Flowers at LT.

We probably should've cut him in camp like we wanted too. King deserved to play over him.
Cruz can probably hang on in the NFL if he wants  
Rudy5757 : 3/29/2017 10:31 am : link
but his days as a star player are most likely gone. He doesnt bring value to a team as the 4th or 5th WR since he doesnt play STs. He'll get a shot but Cruz never had great hands and his legs were what made him special. If you look back, a lot of his catches were double clutch and he had a lot of drops.

Loved Cruz but he is a guy who should retire for health reasons. He made some decent money and can move into a career in broadcasting or something else.
Peter Rosenberg  
StingerProf : 3/29/2017 10:33 am : link
On the Kay Show said Cruz wouldn't play unless it was with a team in a market where he could expand his own brand. As soon as he said it, it seemed although he knew he probably said too much being him and Cruz are friends. Kay and Legreca pushed him saying "if Cruz loves the game he would sign anywhere..." To which Peter then started to side with after he was back tracking from his original statement. I think at this point Cruz is looking to sign with a team in a big market I.e. The Jets, Chargers, Rams or he finds himself on TV somewhere.
RE: RE: RE: Is the hunger still there?  
GmanND : 3/29/2017 10:34 am : link
In comment 13410368 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 13410362 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 13410281 JonC said:

There was a different energy to him during interviews, to my eye. At the time, I figured it was joy and relief to get back on the field. But, as the season wore on he disappeared far too often ... was it he's no longer the same player or was it a degree of surrender.


Or was it from running the same two routes all year that never really suited his strengths? I don't argue that he's likely lost some physically but many of his greatest plays came from running Gillbride's option read routes and Eli being on the same page. McAdoo's plays/routes were being opening criticized as lacking any variation and/or coordinated design to get someone open. Has he lost it physically or mentally (or both)? Likely, but he may have also surrendered to frustration to some extent which as a pro isn't acceptable either but it happens. (P. S. This isn't meant as a bring back Gillbride/Caughlin rant)

Hope he lands somewhere, if that's  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/29/2017 10:35 am : link
what he wants. But if he decides to call it quits/no team interested, that's good too. He made some nice coin & will get out of the game relatively healthy (I don't recall him ever having a concussion, or at least publicly known).
RE: I know the widespread sentiment by heartfelt fans here is different  
mfsd : 3/29/2017 10:36 am : link
In comment 13410324 27 said:
Quote:
but I watched Cruz play on my team last year and I wouldn't want him on my roster for 2017 if I was an NFL team


Bingo. Love me some Cruz, and will always remember his heroics fondly, but really can't see him continuing his career any longer. If he proves me wrong, I'll be cheering loudly for him.
This is just another example of what Eli has to deal with  
gmen9892 : 3/29/2017 10:45 am : link
This makes 2 years in a row now that our #2 WR has moved on after the season and will probably not see another snap in the NFL after that. Think about that.

Now go even further and you will probably not see Tye or Donnell in another uniform after they are done with the Giants. Add in Jennings and Andre Williams and you will see that basically everyone that Eli's had to work with, outside of OBJ, the past 2-3 years is not even NFL-caliber talent.
Why would any team want him?  
Giant John : 3/29/2017 10:45 am : link
This is the NFL (not for long). Teams prefer to give opportunities to younger players with a high ceiling. Not to mention cheaper. Maybe he will get a look after the draft.
He seems to have misread his market.  
GrMtWoods : 3/29/2017 10:45 am : link
He should hire the Postons.
Forgot to include  
gmen9892 : 3/29/2017 10:46 am : link
Shepard and Perkins, who were rookies last year. Basically the only reliable weapons Eli had to work with outside of OBJ. REALLY glad we added Marshall to the mix. Going to make a huge difference.
I thought he'd catch on somewhere as a slot WR  
djm : 3/29/2017 10:53 am : link
and play pretty well. Not 2011-2013 levels but well enough to hold a job for a bit. Guess teams feel he's done. He sure looked done last year but I figured he was out of position.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Is the hunger still there?  
JonC : 3/29/2017 11:03 am : link
In comment 13410411 GmanND said:
Quote:
In comment 13410368 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 13410362 Danny Kanell said:


Quote:


In comment 13410281 JonC said:

There was a different energy to him during interviews, to my eye. At the time, I figured it was joy and relief to get back on the field. But, as the season wore on he disappeared far too often ... was it he's no longer the same player or was it a degree of surrender.



Or was it from running the same two routes all year that never really suited his strengths? I don't argue that he's likely lost some physically but many of his greatest plays came from running Gillbride's option read routes and Eli being on the same page. McAdoo's plays/routes were being opening criticized as lacking any variation and/or coordinated design to get someone open. Has he lost it physically or mentally (or both)? Likely, but he may have also surrendered to frustration to some extent which as a pro isn't acceptable either but it happens. (P. S. This isn't meant as a bring back Gillbride/Caughlin rant)


All really good points to consider.
I'll let this go and move on,  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/29/2017 11:24 am : link
Cruz would be a logical backup to the slot receiver and a third string back up to the wide-outs, but since he can't play specials they can't afford a roster spot for him.

I lost a lot of my faith in the collective football intelligence of BBI (not saying that I have a lot either) during Nicks' last year. In all those Nicks threads almost half, or maybe even half, accused Nicks of doggin' it; playing poorly on purpose because the Giants had extended Cruz before Nicks. Including some I really wouldn't have expected. It was his contract year, his contract year.

One other thing. The offense sucked last year. At some time wouldn't it have made sense to switch Cruz and Shepard? See if Cruz and Manning could have rediscovered their chemistry and if the rookie could play outside?

If Shepard isn't a deep threat, can only play the slot and can't manage more than four yards after catch then he's not the steal everyone thought they were getting. Shepard only had six catches of greater than 20 yards, long 30. Cruz in 2011 had 25 catches greater than 20 yards.

OK, Shepard was only a rookie, but he's got a lot of catching up to do.
RE: I'll let this go and move on,  
Johnny5 : 3/29/2017 11:32 am : link
In comment 13410486 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
Cruz would be a logical backup to the slot receiver and a third string back up to the wide-outs, but since he can't play specials they can't afford a roster spot for him.

I lost a lot of my faith in the collective football intelligence of BBI (not saying that I have a lot either) during Nicks' last year. In all those Nicks threads almost half, or maybe even half, accused Nicks of doggin' it; playing poorly on purpose because the Giants had extended Cruz before Nicks. Including some I really wouldn't have expected. It was his contract year, his contract year.

One other thing. The offense sucked last year. At some time wouldn't it have made sense to switch Cruz and Shepard? See if Cruz and Manning could have rediscovered their chemistry and if the rookie could play outside?

If Shepard isn't a deep threat, can only play the slot and can't manage more than four yards after catch then he's not the steal everyone thought they were getting. Shepard only had six catches of greater than 20 yards, long 30. Cruz in 2011 had 25 catches greater than 20 yards.

OK, Shepard was only a rookie, but he's got a lot of catching up to do.

Agreed
I question how badly Cruz actually wants to still play.  
arcarsenal : 3/29/2017 11:41 am : link
I don't think the drive is there. I think he'd be more than content just being a fashion guy and not taking any more of the punishment that the NFL entails.
Cruz rushed to come back from a major  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/29/2017 11:50 am : link
knee injury within a year. Injured his calf, and effectively almost didn't play for 2 years.

I don't understand why many can't believe he had a little rust from the layoff.

Its reasonable to assume that he could play this year at a better level. It's probable, not a certain.

I am sure some team will invite him to camp, but that will happen after the draft, not before it. No one is going to bank on him being a starter right now, and for good reason.
Cruz didnt gain any points in the 'we need a vet in the WR room'  
YorkAveGiant : 3/29/2017 11:53 am : link
by participating in boat-gate.

couple that with diminished skills and I expect a tearful press conference in the near future.
Am I the only one  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 3/29/2017 11:54 am : link
That would bring Cruz back as a WR4?

Shepard and Cruz in the slot on 4 WR sets?

Rust is one thing  
JonC : 3/29/2017 11:55 am : link
but he all but vanished the second half of the season.

It could be he is no longer to perform at this level, it could be his heart's not in it at the level it needs to be.

He'll need to demonstrate the desire and ability are there.
RE: RE: Is the hunger still there?  
Mike in Long Beach : 3/29/2017 11:59 am : link
In comment 13410326 Reese's Pieces said:
Quote:
In comment 13410281 JonC said:


Quote:


He's 30, he's a multi-millionaire with a ring and options away from football.



Cruz goes through two years of ball-busting rehab to get back to his team as soon as possible and you want to know if the desire is still there?

He complains that he's not getting the ball thrown to him and he's called selfish and a bad teammate.

The Giants are a bit more than a half away from the end of their 2011 season and playing like they didn't much care when one electrifying play turns the game around and sets up a postseason that we'll be re-watching for the rest of our lives.

There's no loyalty any more, not from the teams, the players or the fans.


You're acting like going through that ball-busting rehab netted him nothing. It got him back on the field, into the NFL playoffs, and made him millions of dollars.

Yes, at 30 years old, having done that crazy rehab, and now having to prove himself again to another team? And as Jon said with millions in the bank, relatively healthy now to live a normal life, and a bunch of options off the field?

It's a very, very plausible question.
RE: Rust is one thing  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/29/2017 12:00 pm : link
In comment 13410516 JonC said:
Quote:
but he all but vanished the second half of the season.

It could be he is no longer to perform at this level, it could be his heart's not in it at the level it needs to be.

He'll need to demonstrate the desire and ability are there.


Funny, you make it seem like the job was handed to him last year, when everyone had him being on the verge of being cut. Lack of desire shouldn't be in question. His ability should be, and it's possible he has healed further. Someone will take a bet on him for a camp.
Cruz:  
ryanmkeane : 3/29/2017 12:06 pm : link
simply not that good anymore, but still worthy of a camp look, and also focused much more on things outside of football. I think these two things are evident.
and Reese's Pieces...  
Mike in Long Beach : 3/29/2017 12:06 pm : link
I think a lot of people don't have a full grasp on what it means to be a professional athlete (myself certainly included). When Jon is talking about the heart not being there, I think you're taking that as being synonymous with not trying or not giving a shit. That's why I don't like using that word, because I never see a lack of heart in a case like Cruz as an outward lack of effort.

To perform successfully at that level requires not only a relentless commitment to your body, but in the games themselves, it requires a level of intensity and focus that I don't think any of us can relate to, and that's the "heart" I can see fading... a super-awareness of your ever move, without overthinking it, and just a total internal commitment to every fine-tuned motion you make.

There are physical specimens in the league that don't put up the numbers they should, because it's very easy to tune out and take a route off, which again, isn't the same as dogging it. It's almost an unconscious thing. You go through the motions, so to speak. At 30 years old? It's a thing that can happen. You run your route, make your cut, but there isn't an acute perception there to know that precise nanosecond when that burst is necessary to beat your man.

You need to be hungry in a way that you know if you fail on that route, if you don't beat your man, the life you need to be the best version of yourself can vanish. For Cruz, that urgency isn't there in reality. It's fair to say he can't trick himself into thinking it is.
RE: Am I the only one  
RobCarpenter : 3/29/2017 12:07 pm : link
In comment 13410515 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:
That would bring Cruz back as a WR4?

Shepard and Cruz in the slot on 4 WR sets?


I'd rather have a WR who can play on special teams as the #4 WR.
RE: Am I the only one  
Mike in Long Beach : 3/29/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13410515 Tim in Eternal Blue said:
Quote:
That would bring Cruz back as a WR4?

Shepard and Cruz in the slot on 4 WR sets?


I was one of the biggest Cruz supporters here, but I think the ship has sailed. He can't play specials and, at this point, might not take a vet minimum contract which is all he would deserve. I also don't think he'd be interested in being a 4th WR.

.  
arcarsenal : 3/29/2017 12:48 pm : link
I suspect TK will be a much better option than Cruz as the 4th WR on this team anyhow. Slot or not.
if you are going to have to play for minimum wage anyway  
Ron Johnson : 3/29/2017 12:49 pm : link
you might as well wait for New England to call.
odd  
giantfan2000 : 3/29/2017 12:50 pm : link
Cruz done at 30 but we rejoin at Giants signing 33 year old

I think Cruz gets signed somewhere after June 1st
A decent slot receiver is needed by many teams in this league .

RE: odd  
nicky43 : 3/29/2017 1:38 pm : link
In comment 13410619 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
Cruz done at 30 but we rejoin at Giants signing 33 year old

I think Cruz gets signed somewhere after June 1st
A decent slot receiver is needed by many teams in this league .


I agree and I agree with those that believe he can have a better season with another year of healing behind him. I sensed that he was just very afraid to re-injure himself know another injury would surely end his tenure with the Giants. I don't think he expected this with the team having another star receiver in OBJ.

I think now that he's sees the desperation of his situation he is going to play lights out if another team gives him a shot. Now he knows he has nothing to loose (career wise).


RE: I'll let this go and move on,  
David in LA : 3/29/2017 2:09 pm : link
In comment 13410486 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
Cruz would be a logical backup to the slot receiver and a third string back up to the wide-outs, but since he can't play specials they can't afford a roster spot for him.

I lost a lot of my faith in the collective football intelligence of BBI (not saying that I have a lot either) during Nicks' last year. In all those Nicks threads almost half, or maybe even half, accused Nicks of doggin' it; playing poorly on purpose because the Giants had extended Cruz before Nicks. Including some I really wouldn't have expected. It was his contract year, his contract year.

One other thing. The offense sucked last year. At some time wouldn't it have made sense to switch Cruz and Shepard? See if Cruz and Manning could have rediscovered their chemistry and if the rookie could play outside?

If Shepard isn't a deep threat, can only play the slot and can't manage more than four yards after catch then he's not the steal everyone thought they were getting. Shepard only had six catches of greater than 20 yards, long 30. Cruz in 2011 had 25 catches greater than 20 yards.

OK, Shepard was only a rookie, but he's got a lot of catching up to do.


Yep, some of those comments came from posters you wouldn't expect that from. Lost a lot of respect for the board, especially when we know how Hakeem put it on the line when healthy. It's shitty to see someone give up their body for our entertainment, and we have chickenshit comments about how the guy is mailing it in for checks.
IMO Cruz is finished, his story is one of the most amazing stories  
David in LA : 3/29/2017 2:12 pm : link
in the NFL, even though it was so short lived. I'd like to see the guys that were on his ass when he was looking for a new deal, calling him selfish for not giving the team a hometown discount, chime in here.
its the same bs with Flowers  
UConn4523 : 3/29/2017 2:12 pm : link
except insert "stupid" instead of "dogging it".

I don't want Cruz the player back, but I never for a second thought he wasn't giving it his all. I was one of his biggest supporters during his most recent comeback and while I was wrong on what he had left in the tank, I wasn't wrong about his work ethic and character.
Those are the types of commentary I'm uncomfortable with  
David in LA : 3/29/2017 2:20 pm : link
lazy and dumb, that type of criticism feels like it plays off of the worst parts of black stereotypes, and it was hammered home to me when someone who actually posted semi-regularly called Flowers a 'groid'.
RE: Those are the types of commentary I'm uncomfortable with  
UConn4523 : 3/29/2017 2:26 pm : link
In comment 13410776 David in LA said:
Quote:
lazy and dumb, that type of criticism feels like it plays off of the worst parts of black stereotypes, and it was hammered home to me when someone who actually posted semi-regularly called Flowers a 'groid'.


Jeez, I missed that one but I'm not surprised. Even taking stereotypes out of it I have no idea how anyone who isn't involved intimately with this organization or professional sports to any capacity can make those claims on a player.
Marshall  
PaulN : 3/29/2017 2:55 pm : link
At 33 did not have the injury Cruz at 30 had. I would not make it about age though, 30 is certainly not too old, if you are healthy, and that is the biggest thing about age, the older you get, and the more you play, the odds of injury go up significantly, those who think people hit a certain age and lose their talent are young and clueless, it is other factors, like health that cause the player to lose something, a healthy 30 year old who is healthy enough to work on his game is possibly a better candidate then a 24 year old in the same situation. But if you have to put all your efforts to rehab an injury rather then work on your game, what do you think is going to happen?
His game was always about quickness  
Dave on the UWS : 3/29/2017 5:50 pm : link
I re watched the 2011 Champioship game. All of his plays were from his quickness whether inside or outside. The knee injury took that away from him. He played outside last year because Shepard was the better slot option- and he was not great there. If Cruz is smart he will retire.
TC benched Nick's for dogging it  
JonC : 3/29/2017 6:20 pm : link
and avoiding contact, that's a fact.
Now, it's also true  
JonC : 3/29/2017 6:22 pm : link
His eroded athletic ability and Eli losing confidence in him also played a part, it was a combination of factors. Not either or ...
That was very well written, Mike in Long Beach.  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/29/2017 7:44 pm : link
Thanks.

I don't think I'm completely convinced.

You know how hard it is for a player to get back into playing condition after a serious knee injury. Hard work, tedium, pain and uncertainty if it will all be for nothing.

Then he gets back on the field and things seem to be OK but in the back of his mind is always that fear that he'll plant the leg and pivot and the knee will fail again.

I think that it may be that fear that holds the player back from giving it his absolute all.

But by the second year back if all has gone well then the fear is forgotten. Hell, sometimes the extra year isn't needed. Adrian Peterson in 2011 had a torn ACL and came back in 2012 to gain over 2000 yards at 6 yards/carry.

I don't think that the Giants gave Cruz enough of a chance to prove if he was still any good. They should have given him back his familiar slot position for some snaps, and thrown the ball to him more often instead of trying to force the ball to a double covered Beckham.

If Cruz wants to go to training camp next season, invite him. It may not be that hard to out-produce Shepard in the slot. Seriously, I doubt that Cruz could make the team from training camp, but it would be a fair thing to give him the chance if he wanted it.
RE: TC benched Nick's for dogging it  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/29/2017 7:54 pm : link
In comment 13411227 JonC said:
Quote:
and avoiding contact, that's a fact.


Link?

Even if true, TC had a bit of a reputation for overreacting and letting his emotions get the best of him.

An accusation like that couldn't have remained private.
Here you go  
David in LA : 3/29/2017 8:04 pm : link
Quote:
Nicks dropped a series of first-half passes, which led coach Tom Coughlin to the conclusion that "there's a couple of those balls he should have caught."

Coughlin went a step further Thursday, suggesting that the Giants haven't been able to count on Nicks this season.

"He's gotta get better," Coughlin said, via The Star-Ledger (Newark, N.J.). "He's gotta get to the point where the reliability factor is there as strongly as it always has been. Has it been there up to this point? No. But we're saying 'let's work, let's get back to work and get this done.' We count on this guy.

Link - ( New Window )
TC was a master  
JonC : 3/29/2017 8:56 pm : link
of downplaying things that weren't for public consumption.
If you need examples  
JonC : 3/29/2017 9:00 pm : link
recall the play where he pulled up and a pass was intercepted costing a game. It happened a number of times that season, and TC finally sat him down. It was no mystery if you recognize he wasn't finishing routes or other responsibilities, many because he simply stopped.
RE: Here you go  
PatersonPlank : 3/29/2017 10:33 pm : link
In comment 13411309 David in LA said:
Quote:


Quote:


Nicks dropped a series of first-half passes, which led coach Tom Coughlin to the conclusion that "there's a couple of those balls he should have caught."

Coughlin went a step further Thursday, suggesting that the Giants haven't been able to count on Nicks this season.

"He's gotta get better," Coughlin said, via The Star-Ledger (Newark, N.J.). "He's gotta get to the point where the reliability factor is there as strongly as it always has been. Has it been there up to this point? No. But we're saying 'let's work, let's get back to work and get this done.' We count on this guy.

Link - ( New Window )


I remember this being true at the time. Hadn't Nicks just signed a contract, or was he in the contract year? I forget now.
Mike In Long Beach's  
mrvax : 3/29/2017 10:57 pm : link
12:06 post is extraordinary in how much insight he seems to have into the mind of a pro athlete. Good job, Mike.
It can't be denied that he was abysmal in his blocking effort  
montanagiant : 3/29/2017 11:09 pm : link
This past season.

I mean game after game there were runs where if he just got in the way more yards would have been had. Near the end of the season it was ridiculous to watch, he was an actual liability because of it
Dancing with the stars  
spike : 3/29/2017 11:23 pm : link
He shouldve signed up for it
Yes, I see that two or three times a year.  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/29/2017 11:41 pm : link
The quarterback throws the ball right to the defensive back, then stomps his foot or makes some hand gesture showing frustration, and the commentator bites and says, "Well, it looks like the receiver wasn't supposed to have stopped."

Not having played football, except for touch, I don't know if that accusation makes any sense. I suppose Nicks could have done something like that on one given Sunday when he was really frustrated, but as a policy that he continued repeatedly over the course of the season it is nonsense.

I don't know if that makes any sense. but Eli had a league leading 27 interceptions in 2013, 5 more than the QBs who finished second, so I wouldn't blame him for trying to put the responsibility on someone else.

All water under the bridge. It's just about winning now with Eli and being respected as an elite team so I can start wearing my Giants throwback T-Shirt again.


But I don't have any interest in refighting the Nicks battle. In 2013 almost half the people here thought Nicks was a lowlife who was sabotaging his own team and two years later there's a thread about all the injuries to wide receivers and Nicks has been rehabilitated. Everyone agrees that he was unlucky to have an injury ruin his career, but I don't even know where or what injury that they're talking about.
RE: Here you go  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 3/30/2017 12:11 am : link
In comment 13411309 David in LA said:
Quote:

Quote:


Nicks dropped a series of first-half passes, which led coach Tom Coughlin to the conclusion that "there's a couple of those balls he should have caught."

Coughlin went a step further Thursday, suggesting that the Giants haven't been able to count on Nicks this season.

"He's gotta get better," Coughlin said, via The Star-Ledger (Newark, N.J.). "He's gotta get to the point where the reliability factor is there as strongly as it always has been. Has it been there up to this point? No. But we're saying 'let's work, let's get back to work and get this done.' We count on this guy.

Link - ( New Window )


Well, it was Eli who threw the league leading 27 interceptions that year, so maybe he "gotta get better" more than Nicks. It least that little article told me where and when Nicks was hurt.
SB 42  
JonC : 3/30/2017 10:44 am : link
"But I don't have any interest in refighting the Nicks battle. In 2013 almost half the people here thought Nicks was a lowlife who was sabotaging his own team and two years later there's a thread about all the injuries to wide receivers and Nicks has been rehabilitated. Everyone agrees that he was unlucky to have an injury ruin his career, but I don't even know where or what injury that they're talking about."

You should ignore that crowd. My position in the convo was otherwise.
did I read that right?  
fkap : 3/30/2017 12:33 pm : link
you don't know about Nicks's career changing lower leg injury? That's pretty much on the same level as not knowing about Cruz's career changing leg injury.
Love to see him back  
BlackburnBalledOut : 3/30/2017 4:14 pm : link
As another slot option. He should not have been lined up outside running go routes and deep posts/corners. he wont be what he was but i still think he'll be productive in the right role.
RE: RE: Here you go  
David in LA : 3/30/2017 7:33 pm : link
In comment 13411398 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 13411309 David in LA said:


Quote:




Quote:


Nicks dropped a series of first-half passes, which led coach Tom Coughlin to the conclusion that "there's a couple of those balls he should have caught."

Coughlin went a step further Thursday, suggesting that the Giants haven't been able to count on Nicks this season.

"He's gotta get better," Coughlin said, via The Star-Ledger (Newark, N.J.). "He's gotta get to the point where the reliability factor is there as strongly as it always has been. Has it been there up to this point? No. But we're saying 'let's work, let's get back to work and get this done.' We count on this guy.

Link - ( New Window )



I remember this being true at the time. Hadn't Nicks just signed a contract, or was he in the contract year? I forget now.


He was in a contract year.
Shepard  
annexOPR : 3/30/2017 7:54 pm : link
is the better option at this point. it's been real Victor, thanks for everything.
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