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NFT: Knicks/NBA Thread: 3/29

giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 10:40 am
Don't know how much Knicks-related stuff is interesting to talk about anymore, just update the tank I guess:

Kings winning monday and sixers winning Tuesday sort of negate the Knicks win. Sixers play the Nets one more time. Magic play the Nets twice. Knicks begin a stretch of games against actual playoff teams (except the bulls, who are a game back).

Around the league:

-Portland moves into the 8 seed in the west behind 33 and 16 from Nurkic and 39 from CJ. GS isn't losing a series against an 8 seed even without KD, but Portland has the firepower to maybe get a game off GS and make the first round fun to watch

-if for whatever reason Lowry misses the first round or isn't healthy, Milwaukee might have a chance. Snell 26 and brogdon 14 and 10. Kenna 26

- KAT 37 and 12, Rubio 21 and 10. PG 37

-dragic with 28 put Miami over Detroit. KCP with 25. Probably a near lock for the playoffs the way they've been playing (and the Knicks have a home and home with them!)

-Scroeder with 27 and 9 over Phoenix. Warren with 24

-Saric solidifying his ROY with 23 and a win. Lopez with 26, 9 and 6. Has intriguing trade value. Legitimate stretch center (123 makes on 35% shooting). Not sure how much he'll command as an expiring but he'd make a team like say, Milwaukee or Indiana notably better.

-GS back to their old ways. Curry 37, 7 and 10, Klay with 25. James Harden a triple double.

-Wall with 34 and 14. D-lo 28, 9 and 6.
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I wouldn't be shocked in the least  
djm : 3/29/2017 3:15 pm : link
to see Rose go elsewhere and not only flourish but help a winning team flourish. The Knicks are where good vibes go to die. Melo will help someone else win too. Or maybe he won't. But the Knicks are just a black hole for anything good. Good gets sucked in here and goes somewhere unknown. We literally don't know where the good goes and never will.

Solve the mystery of the Universe. Solve the Knicks.
Derrick Rose is not good at anything except finishing and  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/29/2017 3:17 pm : link
those mid-range jumpers. On another team that might need less from him, that's acceptable. On a team that needs him to defend 30+ minutes a night and make other people better with his passing, he'll look just like he does on the Knicks.
Rose would make an excellent 6th man  
Deej : 3/29/2017 3:18 pm : link
and if he gets put in that role I think he'll have a lot of success. He doesnt defend or pass enough to be a starting PG anymore.
yeah  
djm : 3/29/2017 3:39 pm : link
and Zack Randolph took too many bad shots, was a weird locker room guy and played no defense. Then he went to Memphis and anchored their PF spot for 10 years.

Rose can't play D  
djm : 3/29/2017 3:39 pm : link
but he can help the right team.
Interesting stat I came across  
Eli Wilson : 3/29/2017 3:48 pm : link
Knicks are 4-26 when getting 20 or fewer assists in a game.
Which makes them 24-20 with 21 or more.

Just for a frame of reference, Golden State only has 2 games all year with 20 or fewer assists.
.  
DanMetroMan : 3/29/2017 4:18 pm : link
Congrats to Jeff Hornacek for being named the #29 best coach in the NBA by an ESPN panel (there are 30 teams) #Knicks
RE: .  
Deej : 3/29/2017 4:21 pm : link
In comment 13411069 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Congrats to Jeff Hornacek for being named the #29 best coach in the NBA by an ESPN panel (there are 30 teams) #Knicks


Im not clamoring for him to be fired because I suspect almost every coach would struggle in this situation. But it's really hard for me to come up with anything good to say about JH this season. Do you give him credit for Willy playing well? Why? Seems speculative. It's like the faint praise of crediting Jackson for not trading our picks for magic beans. Ok, good that he didnt do that, but it's not much to hang a hat on.
RE: RE: .  
DanMetroMan : 3/29/2017 4:23 pm : link
In comment 13411078 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13411069 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Congrats to Jeff Hornacek for being named the #29 best coach in the NBA by an ESPN panel (there are 30 teams) #Knicks



Im not clamoring for him to be fired because I suspect almost every coach would struggle in this situation. But it's really hard for me to come up with anything good to say about JH this season. Do you give him credit for Willy playing well? Why? Seems speculative. It's like the faint praise of crediting Jackson for not trading our picks for magic beans. Ok, good that he didnt do that, but it's not much to hang a hat on.


Agreed on all counts. Not that it would make a difference but I wish he were a bit more demonstrative/charismatic or even coming off as more confident. He comes off as meek/shell shocked. Maybe in the long run it doesn't make a difference but as a fan it adds to the "helpless" feeling.
I cant tell what is going on in the lockerroom  
Deej : 3/29/2017 4:41 pm : link
but my suspicion is that Melo and Rose "doing their thing" (i.e. not moving the ball or playing defense) probably sets a tone that tells players that anything goes. Neither Melo nor Rose is accountable for failure to do the things they're coached to do (because I assume they're coached to play some f'ing defense), and I believe that just guts what a coach can do. You end up a joke. Even moreso as the GM publicly pressures you to change the offense and also forces you to make as defensive czar the guy he REALLY wanted to be the coach. Melo, Rose, and Phil really f'ed Hornacek this year, in my opinion.
RE: RE: the difference  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2017 4:46 pm : link
In comment 13410639 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
In comment 13410615 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:


Quote:


between Harden/Westbrook and Kawhi's offensive responsibility is absolutely massive. Kawhi is an awesome cog in his offense, Harden IS the offense.

And you can call Harden unwatchable but he's been playing sublime basketball this year. He's running that D'Antoni offense to perfection and making degree of difficulty passes that only LeBron and Magic really attempted.



I didn't say he wasn't, just that I hate watching his game. I do think the last statement is rather hyperbolic when leaving out guys like Kidd and Nash.


It's not hyperbolic in the least. Harden is making crosscourt long-distance passes at a historic rate which is the key component of the Rockets' record-breaking 3pt attack. These passes are why he's turning the ball over a ridiculous rate. He's basically Brett Favre. A shitload of INTs but SHITLOAD of TDs that more than make up for it.

There have been great passers like Kidd, Nash, Paul, Stockton, etc. but the passes Harden is making on a nightly basis are absurd. Combine that with his sick handle and ability to take all kinds of contact at the rim, and I feel like he's plenty enjoyable to watch.

He's been great to watch this year. Sure he knows how to draw fouls but the main reason he gets to the line is because he's arguably the strongest guy under 6'6" in the league, has incredible change of speed, and a strong handle. He's going to win MVP and he's earned it.
Again  
DanMetroMan : 3/29/2017 4:47 pm : link
I totally agree. Things might look different if Hornacek came here sans Melo/Rose (I actually think Melo is a bigger issue) given his longer years and longer standing impact. Either way, part of the problem is we don't "know" what/how good of a coach Hornacek is. We don't really have evidence regarding how good/bad he is. He was fine in Phoenix but it's not as if teams were clamoring for him. It might be unfair to blame him at all given the situation he is in, but it's also tough to feel confident.
So are Rose and Melo resting?  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 5:43 pm : link
Game notes yesterday said Melo, Rose and Lee were not starting, implying they might get rested.

Also have Rose on my fantasy team, so would help to know to drop him or not.
Rose and Lance out...  
bceagle05 : 3/29/2017 5:50 pm : link
Quote:
NY_KnicksPR @NY_KnicksPR

Derrick Rose (sore left knee) and Lance Thomas (sore right hip) are unavailable tonight versus @MiamiHEAT
RE: Rose and Lance out...  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13411201 bceagle05 said:
Quote:


Quote:


NY_KnicksPR @NY_KnicksPR

Derrick Rose (sore left knee) and Lance Thomas (sore right hip) are unavailable tonight versus @MiamiHEAT



Welcome to the waivers, Derrick.
If Rose has a sore knee  
Deej : 3/29/2017 6:30 pm : link
just shut him down for the year. We dont need to win, he doesnt need to risk his health.
RE: yeah  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/29/2017 6:32 pm : link
In comment 13410964 djm said:
Quote:
and Zack Randolph took too many bad shots, was a weird locker room guy and played no defense. Then he went to Memphis and anchored their PF spot for 10 years.


It's not often that players completely renovate their careers and their public perception, but it's impressive what getting away from the Knicks will get you.

Nobody seriously thinks the same thing would have happened here, right? This isn't an environment where players actually get better or thrive.
RE: RE: yeah  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 6:47 pm : link
In comment 13411236 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13410964 djm said:


Quote:


and Zack Randolph took too many bad shots, was a weird locker room guy and played no defense. Then he went to Memphis and anchored their PF spot for 10 years.




It's not often that players completely renovate their careers and their public perception, but it's impressive what getting away from the Knicks will get you.

Nobody seriously thinks the same thing would have happened here, right? This isn't an environment where players actually get better or thrive.


Fat Ray Volume 1 had the best stretch of his career in his first stint with his knicks, but that probably could be attributed to the offense D'antoni was running.
RE: RE: RE: yeah  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/29/2017 6:56 pm : link
In comment 13411246 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13411236 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


In comment 13410964 djm said:


Quote:


and Zack Randolph took too many bad shots, was a weird locker room guy and played no defense. Then he went to Memphis and anchored their PF spot for 10 years.




It's not often that players completely renovate their careers and their public perception, but it's impressive what getting away from the Knicks will get you.

Nobody seriously thinks the same thing would have happened here, right? This isn't an environment where players actually get better or thrive.



Fat Ray Volume 1 had the best stretch of his career in his first stint with his knicks, but that probably could be attributed to the offense D'antoni was running.


If you're an NBA player and not a big, and also fat, you are extremely lazy to be able to burn all those calories on a nightly basis and keep the pounds on.

Felton's career is his own fault. I'm sure the MDA offense bumped up his numbers. He wouldn't be the first to benefit that way.
RE: RE: yeah  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/29/2017 7:01 pm : link
In comment 13411236 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 13410964 djm said:


Quote:


and Zack Randolph took too many bad shots, was a weird locker room guy and played no defense. Then he went to Memphis and anchored their PF spot for 10 years.




It's not often that players completely renovate their careers and their public perception, but it's impressive what getting away from the Knicks will get you.

Nobody seriously thinks the same thing would have happened here, right? This isn't an environment where players actually get better or thrive.


The answer is right in the original comment. Randolph has played almost 8 years in Memphis because he was still hadn't reached the apex of his prime when the Knicks traded him. That certainly leaves time for player improvement and personal maturation. Unfortunately for Derrick Rose, his physical prime is long gone despite being nearly the same age as Z-Bo was when he was traded from NY.
Orlando up 17  
nygiants16 : 3/29/2017 8:40 pm : link
i hope they can hang on, knicks would move back into a tie for 4th with a loss
Heat are running on fumes.  
bceagle05 : 3/29/2017 9:03 pm : link
Whiteside in foul trouble, too. Dragic needs to drain a few threes down the stretch.
Now this is more like it  
Canton : 3/29/2017 9:29 pm : link
..
Damnit,  
Jon in NYC : 3/29/2017 9:30 pm : link
Westbrook 3 bringing it to OT vs Orlando.
Westbrook forces OT in Orlando with a three.  
bceagle05 : 3/29/2017 9:31 pm : link
Goddamnit.
Hornacek earned some tanking stripes tonight.  
bceagle05 : 3/29/2017 9:34 pm : link
Throwing N'Dour out there to start the fourth brought a tear to my eye.
Orlando got orders from  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 9:45 pm : link
corporate
Vucevic free throw would've sealed it in regulation.  
bceagle05 : 3/29/2017 9:50 pm : link
Goddamnit. Tanking is exhausting - nice loss tonight but Westbrook fucks us over.
Westbrook is awesome  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2017 9:51 pm : link
The most relentless athlete I've seen in a while.
RE: Hornacek earned some tanking stripes tonight.  
Del Shofner : 3/29/2017 9:53 pm : link
In comment 13411367 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Throwing N'Dour out there to start the fourth brought a tear to my eye.


lol ... I watched the first half and it seemed like the tank might not roll, but apparently it did!
RE: Vucevic free throw would've sealed it in regulation.  
nygiants16 : 3/29/2017 9:55 pm : link
In comment 13411379 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Goddamnit. Tanking is exhausting - nice loss tonight but Westbrook fucks us over.


he missed 2 free throws and a wide open jumper
Honestly, only the Knicks could find a way to make tanking  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/29/2017 10:03 pm : link
a nail biting experience. They seem morally opposed to committing to the tankjob. Melo and Rose shouldn't start another game.
Why?  
Keith : 3/29/2017 10:28 pm : link
Melo sucks. He gives us our best chance to lose. I'd sit rose and KP though.
28-47 with seven games left.  
bceagle05 : 3/29/2017 10:36 pm : link
I'll root like hell for seven losses, but 1-6 is acceptable. Let's climb into that five spot at least.
RE: Why?  
Sgrcts : 3/29/2017 10:46 pm : link
In comment 13411397 Keith said:
Quote:
Melo sucks. He gives us our best chance to lose. I'd sit rose and KP though.


Rose couldn't even carry Melo's headbands.
RE: Westbrook is awesome  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/30/2017 6:15 am : link
In comment 13411380 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
The most relentless athlete I've seen in a while.


I'd give Harden the MVP over Westbrook, but Westbrook is must see TV.
Melo  
DanMetroMan : 3/30/2017 7:47 am : link
that sounds like a guy  
Deej : 3/30/2017 7:59 am : link
with a foot out the door
.  
DanMetroMan : 3/30/2017 9:26 am : link
Hell yes. #Knicks
Link - ( New Window )
RE: that sounds like a guy  
DanMetroMan : 3/30/2017 9:27 am : link
In comment 13411483 Deej said:
Quote:
with a foot out the door


Outside of drafting KP/Willy, dealing Melo would be the best move the Knicks have made in years.
So Melo didn't want to be dealt  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/30/2017 9:31 am : link
Now he's being passive aggressive about his role? Jeez. Get this guy out of here already.
RE: RE: that sounds like a guy  
nygiants16 : 3/30/2017 9:48 am : link
In comment 13411594 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13411483 Deej said:


Quote:


with a foot out the door



Outside of drafting KP/Willy, dealing Melo would be the best move the Knicks have made in years.


I love melo and wanted him to resign and wanted to grade for him but it is time to move on..

you can never truly start building around kp, willy and this years first until melo is gone, he will never take a back seat
hopefully melo is dealt over the summer  
djm : 3/30/2017 9:53 am : link
but we won't get jack shit for him. Prepare yourselves.
RE: hopefully melo is dealt over the summer  
DanMetroMan : 3/30/2017 9:59 am : link
In comment 13411636 djm said:
Quote:
but we won't get jack shit for him. Prepare yourselves.


At this point I'm just hoping we don't add a bad contract/shitty player on a mediocre contract (Austin Rivers). I'll be fine with the return otherwise.
RE: RE: RE: that sounds like a guy  
DanMetroMan : 3/30/2017 9:59 am : link
In comment 13411628 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13411594 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13411483 Deej said:


Quote:


with a foot out the door



Outside of drafting KP/Willy, dealing Melo would be the best move the Knicks have made in years.



I love melo and wanted him to resign and wanted to grade for him but it is time to move on..

you can never truly start building around kp, willy and this years first until melo is gone, he will never take a back seat


I'm not a blind Melo hater like some. I just know it's time to move on.
Elsewhere in the association....  
Greg from LI : 3/30/2017 10:07 am : link
Malcolm Brogdon put up 16 and 9 assists/no TOs in the Bucks' win over the Celtics in Boston. ROY!
The thought of drafting a Tatum/Smith/Fox/Jackson level prospect  
bceagle05 : 3/30/2017 10:07 am : link
and dealing Melo this summer makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
RE: The thought of drafting a Tatum/Smith/Fox/Jackson level prospect  
Anakim : 3/30/2017 10:11 am : link
In comment 13411653 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
and dealing Melo this summer makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


Never give up on Fultz!
Wtf is a blind  
Keith : 3/30/2017 10:48 am : link
Melo hater? It doesn't make your opinion look better because you always start with a disclaimer.
RE: Wtf is a blind  
DanMetroMan : 3/30/2017 10:52 am : link
In comment 13411763 Keith said:
Quote:
Melo hater? It doesn't make your opinion look better because you always start with a disclaimer.


What the fuck are you talking about? Who even mentioned or was talking about you? Bizarre response. Truly bizarre.
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