Don't know how much Knicks-related stuff is interesting to talk about anymore, just update the tank I guess:
Kings winning monday and sixers winning Tuesday sort of negate the Knicks win. Sixers play the Nets one more time. Magic play the Nets twice. Knicks begin a stretch of games against actual playoff teams (except the bulls, who are a game back).
Around the league:
-Portland moves into the 8 seed in the west behind 33 and 16 from Nurkic and 39 from CJ. GS isn't losing a series against an 8 seed even without KD, but Portland has the firepower to maybe get a game off GS and make the first round fun to watch
-if for whatever reason Lowry misses the first round or isn't healthy, Milwaukee might have a chance. Snell 26 and brogdon 14 and 10. Kenna 26
- KAT 37 and 12, Rubio 21 and 10. PG 37
-dragic with 28 put Miami over Detroit. KCP with 25. Probably a near lock for the playoffs the way they've been playing (and the Knicks have a home and home with them!)
-Scroeder with 27 and 9 over Phoenix. Warren with 24
-Saric solidifying his ROY with 23 and a win. Lopez with 26, 9 and 6. Has intriguing trade value. Legitimate stretch center (123 makes on 35% shooting). Not sure how much he'll command as an expiring but he'd make a team like say, Milwaukee or Indiana notably better.
-GS back to their old ways. Curry 37, 7 and 10, Klay with 25. James Harden a triple double.
-Wall with 34 and 14. D-lo 28, 9 and 6.
He has them very competitive after what could have been total devastation.
He is now that whole franchise and he's backed it up.
I read somewhere that the MVP has never gone to a player who didn't finish on a top 3 seed. It would be a travaesty to give it to a guy on a 6/7 seed.
I think Leonard deserves it but Harden will get it because he has cooler numbers.
the market for bigs was awful at the trade deadline. this should up his offseason value a touch even being an expiring.
and if they keep him... hes a good guy and face of franchise- so not a terrible thing either.
pathetic that they didnt force him the ball more in the 4th. Lin's worst play down the stretch all year
Link - ( New Window )
Another nail in the Zen Master's coffin. Once again he wasn't brought here based on his franchise building experience. He was brought here based on giving us credibility. Have to give him credit he did do the one thing most thought was impossible- he took the perception of our franchise and made it worse. His only plus is that unlike the other absolute buffoons that preceded him he at least has held on to our draft picks. So basically his one achievement besides Porzi is he hasn't made our personnel situation worse. Wow give him a raise!
The Kings have Joeger though, who is probably a better coach than Hornacek. Even still, the Knicks don't belong behind the Kings, and I'm a huge critic of Jackson. The Lakers combo of Magic, Jeannie Buss, Pelinka and Walton is better than the Knicks. I agree that the perception is bad and Phils done nothing to change it.
Nurkic is really killing it for Portland. Those are the type of buy low deals I would love to see the Knicks do. They usually don't work out, but the reward can be there.
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Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )
Another nail in the Zen Master's coffin. Once again he wasn't brought here based on his franchise building experience. He was brought here based on giving us credibility. Have to give him credit he did do the one thing most thought was impossible- he took the perception of our franchise and made it worse. His only plus is that unlike the other absolute buffoons that preceded him he at least has held on to our draft picks. So basically his one achievement besides Porzi is he hasn't made our personnel situation worse. Wow give him a raise!
Phil screwed up by resigning melo but he also would of been killed if he didnt...
once he resogned melo he was stuck trying to build around him, then they tanked the first year got kp but he still had melo...
no drsft pick so he tried to make the playoffs and failed...
this year he tried to make a spalsh and try one more time to build around melo it didnt work, luckily it bottomed out..
now this where he can change the whole perceptiona round, build around kp and get rix of melo...
if next year you go into the season with say fox kp and willy as your main pieces all of sudden the culture is different this team is viewed as a young up and coming team..
very quickly phil jacksons tenure is viewed as a success
If I'm Milwaukee, I'm scared shitless of extending Parker because:
1) Goes without saying, his knee
2) Giving out a max when you're already at the cap and you're playing like a top 3 seed without the guy
3) Parker is a ball dominant player when you have enough ball dominant players in GF, middleton and brogdon
Nets do it because it's a high risk/high reward move in getting Parker, a potential 25 PPG scorer. Henson and Vaughn fit the Nets memo to acquire young assets, too. RHJ is a guy they were rumored in moving at the deadline. Same with Lopez.
Bucks do it because RHJ fits Kidd's defensive philosophy. Lopez is an upgrade defensively and spacing compared to Monroe. They can use Parker to get some bad contracts off their books before he's hitting RFA.
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NBA's independent doctor concluded Joakim's physically able to play. 20-game suspension starts tonight. He'll miss first 12 games in 17-18.
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Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )
The Kings have Joeger though, who is probably a better coach than Hornacek. Even still, the Knicks don't belong behind the Kings, and I'm a huge critic of Jackson. The Lakers combo of Magic, Jeannie Buss, Pelinka and Walton is better than the Knicks. I agree that the perception is bad and Phils done nothing to change it.
Nurkic is really killing it for Portland. Those are the type of buy low deals I would love to see the Knicks do. They usually don't work out, but the reward can be there.
didnt portland give up a first?
Wow. He's not an NBA player. Thought UMD could be good if he stayed.
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In comment 13410492 Deej said:
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Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )
The Kings have Joeger though, who is probably a better coach than Hornacek. Even still, the Knicks don't belong behind the Kings, and I'm a huge critic of Jackson. The Lakers combo of Magic, Jeannie Buss, Pelinka and Walton is better than the Knicks. I agree that the perception is bad and Phils done nothing to change it.
Nurkic is really killing it for Portland. Those are the type of buy low deals I would love to see the Knicks do. They usually don't work out, but the reward can be there.
didnt portland give up a first?
They gave up a worse first to get a better first from Denver.
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In comment 13410500 TyreeHelmet said:
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In comment 13410492 Deej said:
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Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )
The Kings have Joeger though, who is probably a better coach than Hornacek. Even still, the Knicks don't belong behind the Kings, and I'm a huge critic of Jackson. The Lakers combo of Magic, Jeannie Buss, Pelinka and Walton is better than the Knicks. I agree that the perception is bad and Phils done nothing to change it.
Nurkic is really killing it for Portland. Those are the type of buy low deals I would love to see the Knicks do. They usually don't work out, but the reward can be there.
didnt portland give up a first?
They gave up a worse first to get a better first from Denver.
oh ok thanks
Really hard to fathom how things got this bad. Was the loss of Noah THAT crippling? Everyone else is playing. How embarrassing for Melo and Rose. And even the guys we dont want to blame like KP. This is 3 months of worst-team-in-the-NBA level basketball with a future HOFer, a former league MVP, and a celebrated up and coming star on the roster.
I've always been a huge John Wall fan. Honestly, he was probably my favorite college PG prospect ever. I always rooted for him to succeed to kind of validate my own ability to "scout" college players. He's had a good career but I'd say slightly disappointing for what I expected, mainly because I expected his jumper to improve more. His jumper still isn't great but he has been awesome this year. I'm really happy to see the leap he took in his game this year. Best PG in the East imo. I'd put him 5th on my MVP ballot after Harden/Westbrook/Kawhi/LeBron.
I've always been a huge John Wall fan. Honestly, he was probably my favorite college PG prospect ever. I always rooted for him to succeed to kind of validate my own ability to "scout" college players. He's had a good career but I'd say slightly disappointing for what I expected, mainly because I expected his jumper to improve more. His jumper still isn't great but he has been awesome this year. I'm really happy to see the leap he took in his game this year. Best PG in the East imo. I'd put him 5th on my MVP ballot after Harden/Westbrook/Kawhi/LeBron.
Gotta give him props for being this good without a 3 point shot.
I think I'd take Wall over Westbrook because of how good Wall is defensively.
Not so sure I agree with this. Nurkic outright replaced Plumlee in the starting lineup and they are 10-6 since doing so (.625 win %, beating good teams too) while they had a 26-32 record with Plumlee (.464). Even with the small sample size Portland is a much, much better team with Nurkic.
Defensively, if you can deal with all the dumb fouls Nurkic is a better rim protector than Plumlee. He moves really well for a guy 280 pounds.
They couldnt even tank right.
I look at it this way: literally most valuable, as in, what would that team be without that player?
I think it's pretty easy to say that OKC would be in a much worse spot without Westbrook, then the other team without the other guys we're talking about.
I look at it this way: literally most valuable, as in, what would that team be without that player?
I think it's pretty easy to say that OKC would be in a much worse spot without Westbrook, then the other team without the other guys we're talking about.
I'd agree. Would be surprised if Westbrook didn't win it this year. Harden has had an amazing season, but they have some good options on that team.
As much as I like Hornacek, the guy, I guess we have to look at him. Still - and here's the daily subject - doesn't a lot of it fall on Phil? As in, his suggestions and even edicts regarding how the on-the-court team should play the game?
I think it's impossible for a coach to actually coach with Phil in the seat he currently occupies, with the leans that he's not shy about sharing, and pushing.
Maybe Hornacek is a problem. I just wish there was a way to know that. I don't think we can.
Bottom line for me, this team should be competitive. I think they do a fair enough PR job when talking about the triangle, but it's so clear they want no part of it, and that wrecks chemistry, approach and even effort, imo.
I don't think this team does anything until Phil is gone, regardless of who coaches.
As far as ROY goes, "-Saric solidifying his ROY with 23 and a win" is something I disagree with. I am very biased, admittedly, but I would still give it to Brogdon over Saric. Brogdon is playing more meaningful minutes and I think has been a better all-around contributor in all facets of the game with incredible praise from his coach, whereas Saric is a more high-volume guy on a foundering team. I'm not saying an argument can't be made for Saric, but I don't think it's nearly cut and dry.
I look at it this way: literally most valuable, as in, what would that team be without that player?
I think it's pretty easy to say that OKC would be in a much worse spot without Westbrook, then the other team without the other guys we're talking about.
Sans Westbrook, OKC would be pretty bad, but I think they'd still be better than like the Kings, Nets and magic.
It doesn't make sense on paper, but sans Lebron there isn't much evidence Cleveland is any better than the Nets even with kyrie and love.
It's much harder to go from good to great than it is to go from bad to good in the NBA, so I don't think adding say 15 wins to a 30 win team is quivalent to adding 15 wins to a 40 win team.
If you do the whole switcharoo, I don't think Houston would be all that different with Westbrook instead of harden. Same with OKC.
Which is why I think the race is between Leonard and Lebron. I don't think SA is as good as their record indicates and they are probably an 8 seed at absolute best without Kawhi.
As far as ROY goes, "-Saric solidifying his ROY with 23 and a win" is something I disagree with. I am very biased, admittedly, but I would still give it to Brogdon over Saric. Brogdon is playing more meaningful minutes and I think has been a better all-around contributor in all facets of the game with incredible praise from his coach, whereas Saric is a more high-volume guy on a foundering team. I'm not saying an argument can't be made for Saric, but I don't think it's nearly cut and dry.
Brogdon is very good, but he's playing with a borderline MVP candidate (GF) and a borderline all star (Middleton) whereas Saric is legitimately the best player on his team and is carrying out wins with scrub players. You put Brogdon as the lead dawg in Philly and he's not a 40% 3 point shooter. A lot of brogdons efficiency #s are high because of how well his skill set compliments GF and middleton playing off ball.
Brogdons been the 2nd best rookie, but if you view the roles they've been playing in (saric a #1 option vs Brogdon a #4 option) I think what saric is doing is more impressive. Milwaukee found themselves a gem, though.
They couldnt even tank right.
what did you want the knicks to do? it is phils fault tim hardaway got hot?
Harden: Epic Workload + Efficiency Combo; Leading an average squad to the 3rd best record in the league
Kawhi: Only All-Star on a team that's going to win 60 games; awesome 2-way player
LeBron: He's still LeBron
I'd give it to Harden or Kawhi.
Kawhi's ability to shut down the best player on the other end of the floor while playing very efficient offense and team basketball is why I find him more valuable than Russ or Harden.
but that type of team would suit well from a lopez that now stretches the floor well and while not being a good pnr defender, can protect the rim
And you can call Harden unwatchable but he's been playing sublime basketball this year. He's running that D'Antoni offense to perfection and making degree of difficulty passes that only LeBron and Magic really attempted.
There may be a stat on easy buckets (dunks + layups + uncontested shots?), but I dont know it. Seems to me we dont get those shots, probably because of a lack of ball movement, and explosiveness (outside of Rose drives).
On defense, the elephant in the room is subpar team athleticism. You dont HAVE to have great athletes to be good defensively (see GSW), but usually teams of average and poor athletes are bad defensively. Add in the staggering annual turnover and it's easy to see why we're bad on D. Plus our average/poor athletes arent tough. They're finesse guys on top of losing most athletic matchups.
And you can call Harden unwatchable but he's been playing sublime basketball this year. He's running that D'Antoni offense to perfection and making degree of difficulty passes that only LeBron and Magic really attempted.
I didn't say he wasn't, just that I hate watching his game. I do think the last statement is rather hyperbolic when leaving out guys like Kidd and Nash.
And you can call Harden unwatchable but he's been playing sublime basketball this year. He's running that D'Antoni offense to perfection and making degree of difficulty passes that only LeBron and Magic really attempted.
Important point. Harden's assist percentage (ie the % of teammates FG% that he assisted while he was on the floor) is a ridiculous 51.2% -- on top of him taking 19 shots a game and getting to the line 11 times. Russ is at 41.6% and Leonard at 18.6%
To put Harden's role in making offense into perspective, his 51.2% is in line to be the 14th best season ever. Stockton has seasons #1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 9, &11. Paul has #4 and #10. Nash #7 & #8. Rondo #12. 4 pass first PGs. Among them, only Paul ever eclipsed 20 ppg in any career season. Not taking anything away from Stockton, but he also played in an era conducive to big PG assist numbers, and he had an all time great scoring big to work with.
I watched all the games at the beginning of the year, no Willy contributions and save a few games we were very competitive. I don't think we are a championship squad but it will be a fun young squad with Melo leading.
The Noah move was awful. But as a mentor to the young guys he's not bad and anyone you are going to get as a free agent you will overpay for. Sure i'd rather a deep bench with that money and that's Phil's biggest screw up. But this isn't the Isiah years. There are things to like about this team. We needed to tank, and maybe we didn't do that perfectly but hopefully we pick in the 4-6 range get one of the PGs and are off to the races. Even Fox or Smith i'd be very happy with. Fox might be the best fit for this team right out of the gate, a lock down defender that can pass would be great for this team. We have shooters at 2,3,4 and Willy can move without the ball.
Harden is my MVP.
I saw that coming 4 years ago when we were arguing about trading him or not and not resigning him
Melo has set this franchise back 5 years or more with his selfishness and style of play
I blame Dolan just as much
Harden is my MVP.
I don't think it's even close.
No one hates Rose more then I do, as is well documented, but IF Rose realized who he is, he'd be a fit as an instant offense bench guy on a ton of teams. Now that's such a massive if and probably isn't one that will ever be proven true, but the biggest problem by far with Rose is between the ears.
I think they could get something for him, but if they need to buy him out as a last resort, so be it.
Solve the mystery of the Universe. Solve the Knicks.
Which makes them 24-20 with 21 or more.
Just for a frame of reference, Golden State only has 2 games all year with 20 or fewer assists.
Im not clamoring for him to be fired because I suspect almost every coach would struggle in this situation. But it's really hard for me to come up with anything good to say about JH this season. Do you give him credit for Willy playing well? Why? Seems speculative. It's like the faint praise of crediting Jackson for not trading our picks for magic beans. Ok, good that he didnt do that, but it's not much to hang a hat on.
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Congrats to Jeff Hornacek for being named the #29 best coach in the NBA by an ESPN panel (there are 30 teams) #Knicks
Im not clamoring for him to be fired because I suspect almost every coach would struggle in this situation. But it's really hard for me to come up with anything good to say about JH this season. Do you give him credit for Willy playing well? Why? Seems speculative. It's like the faint praise of crediting Jackson for not trading our picks for magic beans. Ok, good that he didnt do that, but it's not much to hang a hat on.
Agreed on all counts. Not that it would make a difference but I wish he were a bit more demonstrative/charismatic or even coming off as more confident. He comes off as meek/shell shocked. Maybe in the long run it doesn't make a difference but as a fan it adds to the "helpless" feeling.
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between Harden/Westbrook and Kawhi's offensive responsibility is absolutely massive. Kawhi is an awesome cog in his offense, Harden IS the offense.
And you can call Harden unwatchable but he's been playing sublime basketball this year. He's running that D'Antoni offense to perfection and making degree of difficulty passes that only LeBron and Magic really attempted.
I didn't say he wasn't, just that I hate watching his game. I do think the last statement is rather hyperbolic when leaving out guys like Kidd and Nash.
It's not hyperbolic in the least. Harden is making crosscourt long-distance passes at a historic rate which is the key component of the Rockets' record-breaking 3pt attack. These passes are why he's turning the ball over a ridiculous rate. He's basically Brett Favre. A shitload of INTs but SHITLOAD of TDs that more than make up for it.
There have been great passers like Kidd, Nash, Paul, Stockton, etc. but the passes Harden is making on a nightly basis are absurd. Combine that with his sick handle and ability to take all kinds of contact at the rim, and I feel like he's plenty enjoyable to watch.
He's been great to watch this year. Sure he knows how to draw fouls but the main reason he gets to the line is because he's arguably the strongest guy under 6'6" in the league, has incredible change of speed, and a strong handle. He's going to win MVP and he's earned it.
Also have Rose on my fantasy team, so would help to know to drop him or not.
Derrick Rose (sore left knee) and Lance Thomas (sore right hip) are unavailable tonight versus @MiamiHEAT
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NY_KnicksPR @NY_KnicksPR
Derrick Rose (sore left knee) and Lance Thomas (sore right hip) are unavailable tonight versus @MiamiHEAT
Welcome to the waivers, Derrick.
It's not often that players completely renovate their careers and their public perception, but it's impressive what getting away from the Knicks will get you.
Nobody seriously thinks the same thing would have happened here, right? This isn't an environment where players actually get better or thrive.
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and Zack Randolph took too many bad shots, was a weird locker room guy and played no defense. Then he went to Memphis and anchored their PF spot for 10 years.
It's not often that players completely renovate their careers and their public perception, but it's impressive what getting away from the Knicks will get you.
Nobody seriously thinks the same thing would have happened here, right? This isn't an environment where players actually get better or thrive.
Fat Ray Volume 1 had the best stretch of his career in his first stint with his knicks, but that probably could be attributed to the offense D'antoni was running.
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In comment 13410964 djm said:
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and Zack Randolph took too many bad shots, was a weird locker room guy and played no defense. Then he went to Memphis and anchored their PF spot for 10 years.
It's not often that players completely renovate their careers and their public perception, but it's impressive what getting away from the Knicks will get you.
Nobody seriously thinks the same thing would have happened here, right? This isn't an environment where players actually get better or thrive.
Fat Ray Volume 1 had the best stretch of his career in his first stint with his knicks, but that probably could be attributed to the offense D'antoni was running.
If you're an NBA player and not a big, and also fat, you are extremely lazy to be able to burn all those calories on a nightly basis and keep the pounds on.
Felton's career is his own fault. I'm sure the MDA offense bumped up his numbers. He wouldn't be the first to benefit that way.
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and Zack Randolph took too many bad shots, was a weird locker room guy and played no defense. Then he went to Memphis and anchored their PF spot for 10 years.
It's not often that players completely renovate their careers and their public perception, but it's impressive what getting away from the Knicks will get you.
Nobody seriously thinks the same thing would have happened here, right? This isn't an environment where players actually get better or thrive.
The answer is right in the original comment. Randolph has played almost 8 years in Memphis because he was still hadn't reached the apex of his prime when the Knicks traded him. That certainly leaves time for player improvement and personal maturation. Unfortunately for Derrick Rose, his physical prime is long gone despite being nearly the same age as Z-Bo was when he was traded from NY.
lol ... I watched the first half and it seemed like the tank might not roll, but apparently it did!
he missed 2 free throws and a wide open jumper
Rose couldn't even carry Melo's headbands.
I'd give Harden the MVP over Westbrook, but Westbrook is must see TV.
Link - ( New Window )
Outside of drafting KP/Willy, dealing Melo would be the best move the Knicks have made in years.
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with a foot out the door
Outside of drafting KP/Willy, dealing Melo would be the best move the Knicks have made in years.
I love melo and wanted him to resign and wanted to grade for him but it is time to move on..
you can never truly start building around kp, willy and this years first until melo is gone, he will never take a back seat
At this point I'm just hoping we don't add a bad contract/shitty player on a mediocre contract (Austin Rivers). I'll be fine with the return otherwise.
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In comment 13411483 Deej said:
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with a foot out the door
Outside of drafting KP/Willy, dealing Melo would be the best move the Knicks have made in years.
I love melo and wanted him to resign and wanted to grade for him but it is time to move on..
you can never truly start building around kp, willy and this years first until melo is gone, he will never take a back seat
I'm not a blind Melo hater like some. I just know it's time to move on.
Never give up on Fultz!
What the fuck are you talking about? Who even mentioned or was talking about you? Bizarre response. Truly bizarre.