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NFT: Knicks/NBA Thread: 3/29

giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 10:40 am
Don't know how much Knicks-related stuff is interesting to talk about anymore, just update the tank I guess:

Kings winning monday and sixers winning Tuesday sort of negate the Knicks win. Sixers play the Nets one more time. Magic play the Nets twice. Knicks begin a stretch of games against actual playoff teams (except the bulls, who are a game back).

Around the league:

-Portland moves into the 8 seed in the west behind 33 and 16 from Nurkic and 39 from CJ. GS isn't losing a series against an 8 seed even without KD, but Portland has the firepower to maybe get a game off GS and make the first round fun to watch

-if for whatever reason Lowry misses the first round or isn't healthy, Milwaukee might have a chance. Snell 26 and brogdon 14 and 10. Kenna 26

- KAT 37 and 12, Rubio 21 and 10. PG 37

-dragic with 28 put Miami over Detroit. KCP with 25. Probably a near lock for the playoffs the way they've been playing (and the Knicks have a home and home with them!)

-Scroeder with 27 and 9 over Phoenix. Warren with 24

-Saric solidifying his ROY with 23 and a win. Lopez with 26, 9 and 6. Has intriguing trade value. Legitimate stretch center (123 makes on 35% shooting). Not sure how much he'll command as an expiring but he'd make a team like say, Milwaukee or Indiana notably better.

-GS back to their old ways. Curry 37, 7 and 10, Klay with 25. James Harden a triple double.

-Wall with 34 and 14. D-lo 28, 9 and 6.
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Got into a debate with a friend last night...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/29/2017 10:46 am : link
He's taking Westbrook for MVP. I'm going Harden. I wouldn't mind seeing Leonard win it either.

I think Westbrook deserves the nod  
Chris684 : 3/29/2017 10:59 am : link
when you consider not only his performance but the overall state of that franchise in the aftermath of losing Durant.

He has them very competitive after what could have been total devastation.

He is now that whole franchise and he's backed it up.
I like Westbrook more than the the other guys  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 11:04 am : link
In the MVP race, but I don't think he deserves it.

I read somewhere that the MVP has never gone to a player who didn't finish on a top 3 seed. It would be a travaesty to give it to a guy on a 6/7 seed.

I think Leonard deserves it but Harden will get it because he has cooler numbers.
nice win for the sixers last night  
djm : 3/29/2017 11:06 am : link
go heat.
i'd give it to Leonard  
djm : 3/29/2017 11:08 am : link
love him as a player. He's perfect.
i think lopez play down the stretch  
hitdog42 : 3/29/2017 11:23 am : link
will leave the nets in a better spot with regards to what to do with him.

the market for bigs was awful at the trade deadline. this should up his offseason value a touch even being an expiring.

and if they keep him... hes a good guy and face of franchise- so not a terrible thing either.

pathetic that they didnt force him the ball more in the 4th. Lin's worst play down the stretch all year
Posted this on the last thread  
Deej : 3/29/2017 11:30 am : link
Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Posted this on the last thread  
Stu11 : 3/29/2017 11:42 am : link
In comment 13410492 Deej said:
Quote:
Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )

Another nail in the Zen Master's coffin. Once again he wasn't brought here based on his franchise building experience. He was brought here based on giving us credibility. Have to give him credit he did do the one thing most thought was impossible- he took the perception of our franchise and made it worse. His only plus is that unlike the other absolute buffoons that preceded him he at least has held on to our draft picks. So basically his one achievement besides Porzi is he hasn't made our personnel situation worse. Wow give him a raise!
RE: Posted this on the last thread  
TyreeHelmet : 3/29/2017 11:43 am : link
In comment 13410492 Deej said:
Quote:
Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )


The Kings have Joeger though, who is probably a better coach than Hornacek. Even still, the Knicks don't belong behind the Kings, and I'm a huge critic of Jackson. The Lakers combo of Magic, Jeannie Buss, Pelinka and Walton is better than the Knicks. I agree that the perception is bad and Phils done nothing to change it.

Nurkic is really killing it for Portland. Those are the type of buy low deals I would love to see the Knicks do. They usually don't work out, but the reward can be there.
RE: RE: Posted this on the last thread  
nygiants16 : 3/29/2017 11:50 am : link
In comment 13410499 Stu11 said:
Quote:
In comment 13410492 Deej said:


Quote:


Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )


Another nail in the Zen Master's coffin. Once again he wasn't brought here based on his franchise building experience. He was brought here based on giving us credibility. Have to give him credit he did do the one thing most thought was impossible- he took the perception of our franchise and made it worse. His only plus is that unlike the other absolute buffoons that preceded him he at least has held on to our draft picks. So basically his one achievement besides Porzi is he hasn't made our personnel situation worse. Wow give him a raise!


Phil screwed up by resigning melo but he also would of been killed if he didnt...

once he resogned melo he was stuck trying to build around him, then they tanked the first year got kp but he still had melo...

no drsft pick so he tried to make the playoffs and failed...

this year he tried to make a spalsh and try one more time to build around melo it didnt work, luckily it bottomed out..

now this where he can change the whole perceptiona round, build around kp and get rix of melo...

if next year you go into the season with say fox kp and willy as your main pieces all of sudden the culture is different this team is viewed as a young up and coming team..

very quickly phil jacksons tenure is viewed as a success
Hitdog  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 11:50 am : link
If Milwaukee offers Jabari Parker and like Henson, Vaughn and Teletovic for Lopez and RHJ, would you do it?

If I'm Milwaukee, I'm scared shitless of extending Parker because:

1) Goes without saying, his knee

2) Giving out a max when you're already at the cap and you're playing like a top 3 seed without the guy

3) Parker is a ball dominant player when you have enough ball dominant players in GF, middleton and brogdon

Nets do it because it's a high risk/high reward move in getting Parker, a potential 25 PPG scorer. Henson and Vaughn fit the Nets memo to acquire young assets, too. RHJ is a guy they were rumored in moving at the deadline. Same with Lopez.

Bucks do it because RHJ fits Kidd's defensive philosophy. Lopez is an upgrade defensively and spacing compared to Monroe. They can use Parker to get some bad contracts off their books before he's hitting RFA.
.  
DanMetroMan : 3/29/2017 11:51 am : link
Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 10s10 seconds ago
More
NBA's independent doctor concluded Joakim's physically able to play. 20-game suspension starts tonight. He'll miss first 12 games in 17-18.
Melo  
DanMetroMan : 3/29/2017 11:53 am : link
Trimble declares and will sign with an agent
RE: RE: Posted this on the last thread  
nygiants16 : 3/29/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13410500 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13410492 Deej said:


Quote:


Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )



The Kings have Joeger though, who is probably a better coach than Hornacek. Even still, the Knicks don't belong behind the Kings, and I'm a huge critic of Jackson. The Lakers combo of Magic, Jeannie Buss, Pelinka and Walton is better than the Knicks. I agree that the perception is bad and Phils done nothing to change it.

Nurkic is really killing it for Portland. Those are the type of buy low deals I would love to see the Knicks do. They usually don't work out, but the reward can be there.


didnt portland give up a first?
RE: Melo  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 11:57 am : link
In comment 13410508 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Trimble declares and will sign with an agent


Wow. He's not an NBA player. Thought UMD could be good if he stayed.
RE: RE: RE: Posted this on the last thread  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 11:58 am : link
In comment 13410519 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 13410500 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 13410492 Deej said:


Quote:


Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )



The Kings have Joeger though, who is probably a better coach than Hornacek. Even still, the Knicks don't belong behind the Kings, and I'm a huge critic of Jackson. The Lakers combo of Magic, Jeannie Buss, Pelinka and Walton is better than the Knicks. I agree that the perception is bad and Phils done nothing to change it.

Nurkic is really killing it for Portland. Those are the type of buy low deals I would love to see the Knicks do. They usually don't work out, but the reward can be there.



didnt portland give up a first?


They gave up a worse first to get a better first from Denver.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Posted this on the last thread  
nygiants16 : 3/29/2017 12:01 pm : link
In comment 13410522 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13410519 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 13410500 TyreeHelmet said:


Quote:


In comment 13410492 Deej said:


Quote:


Survey of ESPN's Forecast panel (I believe it is their 210 NBA writers per another page) rating each team's management/coaching team puts the Knicks ... dead last. Behind Vlade. Now you can argue with this, but it's worth recognizing that the perception is that we're the worst led team in the NBA. That's brutal for the franchise. The Lakers, going through a family civil war, are significantly ahead of us in the eyes of the panel. Link - ( New Window )



The Kings have Joeger though, who is probably a better coach than Hornacek. Even still, the Knicks don't belong behind the Kings, and I'm a huge critic of Jackson. The Lakers combo of Magic, Jeannie Buss, Pelinka and Walton is better than the Knicks. I agree that the perception is bad and Phils done nothing to change it.

Nurkic is really killing it for Portland. Those are the type of buy low deals I would love to see the Knicks do. They usually don't work out, but the reward can be there.



didnt portland give up a first?



They gave up a worse first to get a better first from Denver.


oh ok thanks
Pacers  
DanMetroMan : 3/29/2017 12:04 pm : link
and PG13 look destined to divorce shortly. Curious to see how patient Magic/Jeanie are
Portland probably gave up the better player in that deal  
Deej : 3/29/2017 12:09 pm : link
if you ignore contract status. Nurkic is bad defensively, and that's kind of brutal given how bad POR's guards are on defense. But he has upside and is under control.
Was recently reminded that we were a game over .500  
Deej : 3/29/2017 12:12 pm : link
going into Christmas. Since then we are playing .250 ball (11-33). That is, since Christmas we're the equivalent of a 20 win full-season team.

Really hard to fathom how things got this bad. Was the loss of Noah THAT crippling? Everyone else is playing. How embarrassing for Melo and Rose. And even the guys we dont want to blame like KP. This is 3 months of worst-team-in-the-NBA level basketball with a future HOFer, a former league MVP, and a celebrated up and coming star on the roster.
KAT is such a stud  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2017 12:13 pm : link
I liked him in college but more for his high floor than high ceiling. I thought he'd be a better version of Al Horford. But he's showing way more potential than that, he looks like he could compete for an MVP award when he hits his prime.

I've always been a huge John Wall fan. Honestly, he was probably my favorite college PG prospect ever. I always rooted for him to succeed to kind of validate my own ability to "scout" college players. He's had a good career but I'd say slightly disappointing for what I expected, mainly because I expected his jumper to improve more. His jumper still isn't great but he has been awesome this year. I'm really happy to see the leap he took in his game this year. Best PG in the East imo. I'd put him 5th on my MVP ballot after Harden/Westbrook/Kawhi/LeBron.
RE: KAT is such a stud  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13410544 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
I liked him in college but more for his high floor than high ceiling. I thought he'd be a better version of Al Horford. But he's showing way more potential than that, he looks like he could compete for an MVP award when he hits his prime.

I've always been a huge John Wall fan. Honestly, he was probably my favorite college PG prospect ever. I always rooted for him to succeed to kind of validate my own ability to "scout" college players. He's had a good career but I'd say slightly disappointing for what I expected, mainly because I expected his jumper to improve more. His jumper still isn't great but he has been awesome this year. I'm really happy to see the leap he took in his game this year. Best PG in the East imo. I'd put him 5th on my MVP ballot after Harden/Westbrook/Kawhi/LeBron.


Gotta give him props for being this good without a 3 point shot.

I think I'd take Wall over Westbrook because of how good Wall is defensively.
It really is incredible  
bceagle05 : 3/29/2017 12:17 pm : link
that we trot out Rose, Lee, Melo, KP, and Willy as our starting five most nights, with legit NBA-caliber bench guys like O'Quinn, Holiday, and Lance - and we still are among the worst teams in basketball. On paper that's easily a 6-8 seed in the East. It's a "credit" to how bad we are defensively, and how poorly coached we are.
Defense  
DanMetroMan : 3/29/2017 12:20 pm : link
coaching and also chemistry... the Knicks seemingly NEVER find each other for easy buckets. I'm sure Deej will have some stat where I'm off but visually it seems like we do quite poorly finding easy points.
RE: Portland probably gave up the better player in that deal  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13410538 Deej said:
Quote:
if you ignore contract status. Nurkic is bad defensively, and that's kind of brutal given how bad POR's guards are on defense. But he has upside and is under control.


Not so sure I agree with this. Nurkic outright replaced Plumlee in the starting lineup and they are 10-6 since doing so (.625 win %, beating good teams too) while they had a 26-32 record with Plumlee (.464). Even with the small sample size Portland is a much, much better team with Nurkic.

Defensively, if you can deal with all the dumb fouls Nurkic is a better rim protector than Plumlee. He moves really well for a guy 280 pounds.
I am still mad about missing out on KAT  
Chris684 : 3/29/2017 12:24 pm : link
all due respect to Porzingis who is very good, I think Towns is now and will continue to be better.

They couldnt even tank right.

Not sure what conventional thinking is  
Beezer : 3/29/2017 12:26 pm : link
wrt what constitutes an MVP.

I look at it this way: literally most valuable, as in, what would that team be without that player?

I think it's pretty easy to say that OKC would be in a much worse spot without Westbrook, then the other team without the other guys we're talking about.
RE: Not sure what conventional thinking is  
ryanmkeane : 3/29/2017 12:30 pm : link
In comment 13410568 Beezer said:
Quote:
wrt what constitutes an MVP.

I look at it this way: literally most valuable, as in, what would that team be without that player?

I think it's pretty easy to say that OKC would be in a much worse spot without Westbrook, then the other team without the other guys we're talking about.

I'd agree. Would be surprised if Westbrook didn't win it this year. Harden has had an amazing season, but they have some good options on that team.
RE: It really is incredible  
Beezer : 3/29/2017 12:31 pm : link
In comment 13410548 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
that we trot out Rose, Lee, Melo, KP, and Willy as our starting five most nights, with legit NBA-caliber bench guys like O'Quinn, Holiday, and Lance - and we still are among the worst teams in basketball. On paper that's easily a 6-8 seed in the East. It's a "credit" to how bad we are defensively, and how poorly coached we are.



As much as I like Hornacek, the guy, I guess we have to look at him. Still - and here's the daily subject - doesn't a lot of it fall on Phil? As in, his suggestions and even edicts regarding how the on-the-court team should play the game?

I think it's impossible for a coach to actually coach with Phil in the seat he currently occupies, with the leans that he's not shy about sharing, and pushing.

Maybe Hornacek is a problem. I just wish there was a way to know that. I don't think we can.

Bottom line for me, this team should be competitive. I think they do a fair enough PR job when talking about the triangle, but it's so clear they want no part of it, and that wrecks chemistry, approach and even effort, imo.

I don't think this team does anything until Phil is gone, regardless of who coaches.

MVP  
PaulBlakeTSU : 3/29/2017 12:34 pm : link
should go to the guy who when on the court, most contributes to giving his team the win. I'd rather have Kawhi in a 5-on-5 game than Russ or Harden. I still think LeBron is the best player on the planet, though I think he's more focused on tinkering and being fresh for the playoffs which is why I could give it to Leonard over him.

As far as ROY goes, "-Saric solidifying his ROY with 23 and a win" is something I disagree with. I am very biased, admittedly, but I would still give it to Brogdon over Saric. Brogdon is playing more meaningful minutes and I think has been a better all-around contributor in all facets of the game with incredible praise from his coach, whereas Saric is a more high-volume guy on a foundering team. I'm not saying an argument can't be made for Saric, but I don't think it's nearly cut and dry.
RE: Not sure what conventional thinking is  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 12:34 pm : link
In comment 13410568 Beezer said:
Quote:
wrt what constitutes an MVP.

I look at it this way: literally most valuable, as in, what would that team be without that player?

I think it's pretty easy to say that OKC would be in a much worse spot without Westbrook, then the other team without the other guys we're talking about.


Sans Westbrook, OKC would be pretty bad, but I think they'd still be better than like the Kings, Nets and magic.

It doesn't make sense on paper, but sans Lebron there isn't much evidence Cleveland is any better than the Nets even with kyrie and love.

It's much harder to go from good to great than it is to go from bad to good in the NBA, so I don't think adding say 15 wins to a 30 win team is quivalent to adding 15 wins to a 40 win team.

If you do the whole switcharoo, I don't think Houston would be all that different with Westbrook instead of harden. Same with OKC.

Which is why I think the race is between Leonard and Lebron. I don't think SA is as good as their record indicates and they are probably an 8 seed at absolute best without Kawhi.
RE: MVP  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13410584 PaulBlakeTSU said:
Quote:
should go to the guy who when on the court, most contributes to giving his team the win. I'd rather have Kawhi in a 5-on-5 game than Russ or Harden. I still think LeBron is the best player on the planet, though I think he's more focused on tinkering and being fresh for the playoffs which is why I could give it to Leonard over him.

As far as ROY goes, "-Saric solidifying his ROY with 23 and a win" is something I disagree with. I am very biased, admittedly, but I would still give it to Brogdon over Saric. Brogdon is playing more meaningful minutes and I think has been a better all-around contributor in all facets of the game with incredible praise from his coach, whereas Saric is a more high-volume guy on a foundering team. I'm not saying an argument can't be made for Saric, but I don't think it's nearly cut and dry.


Brogdon is very good, but he's playing with a borderline MVP candidate (GF) and a borderline all star (Middleton) whereas Saric is legitimately the best player on his team and is carrying out wins with scrub players. You put Brogdon as the lead dawg in Philly and he's not a 40% 3 point shooter. A lot of brogdons efficiency #s are high because of how well his skill set compliments GF and middleton playing off ball.

Brogdons been the 2nd best rookie, but if you view the roles they've been playing in (saric a #1 option vs Brogdon a #4 option) I think what saric is doing is more impressive. Milwaukee found themselves a gem, though.
RE: I am still mad about missing out on KAT  
nygiants16 : 3/29/2017 12:39 pm : link
In comment 13410565 Chris684 said:
Quote:
all due respect to Porzingis who is very good, I think Towns is now and will continue to be better.

They couldnt even tank right.


what did you want the knicks to do? it is phils fault tim hardaway got hot?
all 4 guys have arguments  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2017 12:41 pm : link
Westbrook: Historic Workload; Carrying mediocrity into the playoffs
Harden: Epic Workload + Efficiency Combo; Leading an average squad to the 3rd best record in the league
Kawhi: Only All-Star on a team that's going to win 60 games; awesome 2-way player
LeBron: He's still LeBron

I'd give it to Harden or Kawhi.
actually I'd just give it to Harden  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2017 12:41 pm : link
because he hasn't missed games like Kawhi. He's an absolute tank.
I'm biased against Harden  
PaulBlakeTSU : 3/29/2017 12:44 pm : link
because I find his game so unwatchable.

Kawhi's ability to shut down the best player on the other end of the floor while playing very efficient offense and team basketball is why I find him more valuable than Russ or Harden.

not entirely sure if i would do it  
hitdog42 : 3/29/2017 12:46 pm : link
if i had to give up RHJ as well-
but that type of team would suit well from a lopez that now stretches the floor well and while not being a good pnr defender, can protect the rim
the difference  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 3/29/2017 12:49 pm : link
between Harden/Westbrook and Kawhi's offensive responsibility is absolutely massive. Kawhi is an awesome cog in his offense, Harden IS the offense.

And you can call Harden unwatchable but he's been playing sublime basketball this year. He's running that D'Antoni offense to perfection and making degree of difficulty passes that only LeBron and Magic really attempted.
RE: Defense  
Deej : 3/29/2017 12:49 pm : link
In comment 13410551 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
coaching and also chemistry... the Knicks seemingly NEVER find each other for easy buckets. I'm sure Deej will have some stat where I'm off but visually it seems like we do quite poorly finding easy points.


There may be a stat on easy buckets (dunks + layups + uncontested shots?), but I dont know it. Seems to me we dont get those shots, probably because of a lack of ball movement, and explosiveness (outside of Rose drives).

On defense, the elephant in the room is subpar team athleticism. You dont HAVE to have great athletes to be good defensively (see GSW), but usually teams of average and poor athletes are bad defensively. Add in the staggering annual turnover and it's easy to see why we're bad on D. Plus our average/poor athletes arent tough. They're finesse guys on top of losing most athletic matchups.
RE: the difference  
PaulBlakeTSU : 3/29/2017 12:59 pm : link
In comment 13410615 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
between Harden/Westbrook and Kawhi's offensive responsibility is absolutely massive. Kawhi is an awesome cog in his offense, Harden IS the offense.

And you can call Harden unwatchable but he's been playing sublime basketball this year. He's running that D'Antoni offense to perfection and making degree of difficulty passes that only LeBron and Magic really attempted.


I didn't say he wasn't, just that I hate watching his game. I do think the last statement is rather hyperbolic when leaving out guys like Kidd and Nash.
RE: the difference  
Deej : 3/29/2017 1:01 pm : link
In comment 13410615 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
Quote:
between Harden/Westbrook and Kawhi's offensive responsibility is absolutely massive. Kawhi is an awesome cog in his offense, Harden IS the offense.

And you can call Harden unwatchable but he's been playing sublime basketball this year. He's running that D'Antoni offense to perfection and making degree of difficulty passes that only LeBron and Magic really attempted.


Important point. Harden's assist percentage (ie the % of teammates FG% that he assisted while he was on the floor) is a ridiculous 51.2% -- on top of him taking 19 shots a game and getting to the line 11 times. Russ is at 41.6% and Leonard at 18.6%

To put Harden's role in making offense into perspective, his 51.2% is in line to be the 14th best season ever. Stockton has seasons #1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 9, &11. Paul has #4 and #10. Nash #7 & #8. Rondo #12. 4 pass first PGs. Among them, only Paul ever eclipsed 20 ppg in any career season. Not taking anything away from Stockton, but he also played in an era conducive to big PG assist numbers, and he had an all time great scoring big to work with.
Everyone likes to kill Phil  
NoGainDayne : 3/29/2017 1:11 pm : link
but if we end up with any of the top 4 PGs I think this is a middle of the pack playoff team that can go further based on the development of Willy, KP and new point guard.

I watched all the games at the beginning of the year, no Willy contributions and save a few games we were very competitive. I don't think we are a championship squad but it will be a fun young squad with Melo leading.

The Noah move was awful. But as a mentor to the young guys he's not bad and anyone you are going to get as a free agent you will overpay for. Sure i'd rather a deep bench with that money and that's Phil's biggest screw up. But this isn't the Isiah years. There are things to like about this team. We needed to tank, and maybe we didn't do that perfectly but hopefully we pick in the 4-6 range get one of the PGs and are off to the races. Even Fox or Smith i'd be very happy with. Fox might be the best fit for this team right out of the gate, a lock down defender that can pass would be great for this team. We have shooters at 2,3,4 and Willy can move without the ball.
Harden will win it  
giantsfan44ab : 3/29/2017 1:12 pm : link
I won't have any qualms about it. Dudes a baller. PnR master. My favorite plays are the ones he gets Capella involved. You can tell that option #1 for him is trying to get a sliver of a window to get an easy lob dunk to Capella. He'll probe around and if the easy dunk isn't there he'll find other ways to kill you.
Melo wont be here  
nygiants16 : 3/29/2017 1:13 pm : link
and i dont want him leading anything anymore, he doesnt know how to take a step back to the young guys..
The roster that Harden is going to drag to a mid-50s win season  
Deej : 3/29/2017 1:20 pm : link
is really not good. I mean, their 2nd best player is a 12-8-1 Capella, who missed 15 games. A fine player, but not exactly what you'd expect as the #2 guy on a ~55 win team.

Harden is my MVP.
of course the Knicks are going to bring in a highly-prized PG prospect  
PaulBlakeTSU : 3/29/2017 1:29 pm : link
just as they get rid of Melo. I wouldn't be surprised if there has never has a star of Melo's caliber who played with a worse collection of point guards in the history of the League-- at least during his tenure with the Knicks.
RE: Melo wont be here  
Earl the goat : 3/29/2017 1:45 pm : link
In comment 13410671 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and i dont want him leading anything anymore, he doesnt know how to take a step back to the young guys..


I saw that coming 4 years ago when we were arguing about trading him or not and not resigning him
Melo has set this franchise back 5 years or more with his selfishness and style of play
I blame Dolan just as much
RE: The roster that Harden is going to drag to a mid-50s win season  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/29/2017 1:46 pm : link
In comment 13410687 Deej said:
Quote:
is really not good. I mean, their 2nd best player is a 12-8-1 Capella, who missed 15 games. A fine player, but not exactly what you'd expect as the #2 guy on a ~55 win team.

Harden is my MVP.


I don't think it's even close.
.  
DanMetroMan : 3/29/2017 2:31 pm : link
Knicks guard Derrick Rose recently talked about how money would not be such a big factor in his free agency decision this summer considering how much hes made in the NBA already. That would open up the door for Rose to join a contender (perhaps even a super team). NBA legend and fellow Chicago native Isiah Thomas says San Antonio might be the club he ends up joining.
why on Earth would the Spurs  
PaulBlakeTSU : 3/29/2017 2:33 pm : link
want someone like Derrick Rose on their team? He can't shoot the 3, doesn't play defense, and requires too much usage to be effective scoring but isn't good enough to warrant the usage.


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