And that's irrelevant to the return they've gotten on the investment. 2 lost seasons followed by 61 receptions and no red zone impact from a former #10 overall pick is disappointing. Own it.
Those 2 go well after 23, and probably in the 2nd round.
And you know this because.....???
What's so abnormal about this draft? 32 prospects will be selected in the first round, some will succeed, some will fail. Was it a normal draft when Scherff and Flowers went in the top ten or was that an abnormal draft as well? How do you think Ramczyk and Robinson stack up against Scherff and Flowers coming out of school?
I have a 1st round grade on Robinson and Ramczyk (ahead of Howard, Njoku, Charlton, Reddick, and Cunningham, btw) and you don't. But who the hell are we? We won't know what the professionals think until April 27th. And the professionals don't have such a great track record to begin with.
Milton, you've always been one of my favorite posters. You remain true to your convictions and don't yield ground to the BBI chorus.
It's year four. So I'll stick with has been a disappointment. 7 TD's in three seasons for a guy touted as a red zone difference maker. #10 overall. He'll have a lot of making up to do to justify that pick for the Lions.
He's turning 23 in April. And if you mean "it's year 4" sure, this is his 4th NFL season coming up. Look at the production, it's increased every season. He had more learning to do than they probably realized but he's 22 years old! What 22 year old tight ends in the league currently are catching 60 balls?
Apply said logic to 20 yr old rookie starter, 21 yr old second year starter and 22 yr old soon to be 3rd yr starter LT Flowers, E.
RE: RE: RE: If so, let's hope they don't tip their hand again this year
that is coming off an operation and had 1 year at D1. #1 almost certainly needs either impact or to start. I'm not sure Ramcyzk can do either this year.
I think Howard or Njoku are the players they would like or one of the really good LBs or CBs.
then they can't trade up for him. I really can't imagine them trading a second rounder to move up. But if Njoku is there and it only requires a third and something else, I think they jump all over it.
LOL, yeah, "don't be shocked if they trade up in the first or second round"
crazy smokescreen there. Teams will be scrambling to decode this one.
and like last year when they were like an open book with their affinity for Conklin and Floyd hopefully, if they really did like both players, they aren't as open with their thoughts.
Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.
Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?
Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.
Eric, don't you think it will take at least the 2nd rounder to move up to get Howard? Can't Njoku be an upgrade at TE and checks enough boxes to be the target?
LOL, yeah, "don't be shocked if they trade up in the first or second round"
crazy smokescreen there. Teams will be scrambling to decode this one.
and like last year when they were like an open book with their affinity for Conklin and Floyd hopefully, if they really did like both players, they aren't as open with their thoughts.
Guesses from beat writers are all it takes for people to believe that the Giants were crushed or hoodwinked in the draft. According to some it happens every single time whenever the Giants can't draft someone the media has opined they want to. Have any of these claims ever been actually been validated?
I find that it's a bit too convenient to believe that the only time of the year the Giants-related media knows what's going on for sure is the most information-sensitive time of the year.
Moton goes before 55 IMO.
There would also be other players in the top 40-45 that could help us, depending how the draft falls. Some team or 2 is very likely to pick a guy a round early or whatever and change the dynamic of the draft.
Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.
Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?
Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.
Agree on both accounts. I think a real TE allows McAdoo to open up the offense in a manner that he is more comfortable with. I don't even think Howard has to be the guy, it just has to be a legitimate TE.
Watching people ring their hands about giving up 3rd and 4th
round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!
You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
going to absolutely hate it if Reese starts burning multiple picks to move up in the first round. That's just desperate and stupid. What is the success rate for first round picks? 50%? Just stay put, and take one of the following:
Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.
kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)
going to absolutely hate it if Reese starts burning multiple picks to move up in the first round. That's just desperate and stupid. What is the success rate for first round picks? 50%? Just stay put, and take one of the following:
Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.
kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)
It would be a lot more expensive to move up to get Howard. We gave up our fourth, and a seventh we got from Denver for McManus to get Collins. I also said I'm OK with moving up in the first round as long as Reese doesn't give up more than one day three pick.
RE: Watching people ring their hands about giving up 3rd and 4th
round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!
You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.
going to absolutely hate it if Reese starts burning multiple picks to move up in the first round. That's just desperate and stupid. What is the success rate for first round picks? 50%? Just stay put, and take one of the following:
Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.
kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)
It would be a lot more expensive to move up to get Howard. We gave up our fourth, and a seventh we got from Denver for McManus to get Collins. I also said I'm OK with moving up in the first round as long as Reese doesn't give up more than one day three pick.
Yea but if they go up an get Howard and he becomes a dynamic top TE in the league and helps lead the team to the playoffs , I'd be ok losing a 3rd or next years 2nd
RE: RE: Watching people ring their hands about giving up 3rd and 4th
round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!
You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.
I want to add that I love Howard. I also think Njoku will be a stud. I guess I would rather keep picks and draft Njoku ( if he lasts to 23 )
To move up and grab Landon? No. And nobody cares at this point because he's become a stud and a huge piece to this franchise moving forward. I know that was the 2nd round but if there's an impact player they want, go get him. That said, the only guy I would want the Giants to move up and get in the first is OJ. He can change the whole dynamic on offense.
McCaffery, OBJ, Marshall & Shep would be tough to stop on 3rd down!
It's year four. So I'll stick with has been a disappointment. 7 TD's in three seasons for a guy touted as a red zone difference maker. #10 overall. He'll have a lot of making up to do to justify that pick for the Lions.
lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Ebron is a bust
RE: Does anybody even remember what the Giants gave up
I don't think it's wise to throw up your hands and shrug just because they haven't had success with them.
You should expect your round 3 and 4 players to at least be able to be back ups and situational players.
Not getting anything out of rounds 3 and 4 are why this roster is paper thin. You can't just decide not to make use of them.
Who is throwing up their hands and shrugging? WTF does that even mean?
The whole premise is if the Giants have a player they strongly covet and they believe is unlikely to be there when they pick that being aggressive and moving up to get that player, the player they really want, is a solid strategy.
The fact that 3rd round picks are far more of a crapshoot and Reese has a terrible 3rd round track record make it easier to part with the pick (for those who weren't so willing to begin with). Personally, I don't value the potential of a draft pick vs the strong conviction teams might have on a player as much as some of you.
it's gonna piss a lot of people off whe they trade up...
round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!
You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.
ohter 4th rounders: Gary Reasons, Harry Carson, Kevin Belcher, Brandon Jacobs, Keith Hamilton, Lewis Tillman. Billy Taylor.
he'd be a nice player with room to grow into an even better player. He did nothing his first year or two and finally showed something last year. He's OK. Problem is he was picked 10th in a great draft. The Lions passed on franchise players to take Ebron. He's not a bad player. I'd want him on the Giants but he's a bust when you factor in where he was picked. And let's be honest Ebron is unlikely to morph into Gronk this coming season. He might get better but after 3 years it's probably safe to say he is what he is at this point. I'm not even sure he's a good blocker. I doubt it. So he's a decent receiving TE. Lions would do the pick over if they could.
Aside from all the discussion about who the Giants will take in the 1st round, I really want them to draft Miami TE David Njoku. He shined again at his recent Pro Day and there is something about this kid that make teams drool about his long-term upside.
Forget the blocking aspect for his first 1-2 years, he'd be an immediate impact starter as a move-TE in our offense. Imagine teams having to worry about his seam stretching prowess alongside Odell, Marshall, and Shepard. Wow!
RE: it's gonna piss a lot of people off whe they trade up...
Contrary to those that are already trying to talk the likes of Mahomes up into being an Aaron Rodgers like talent, this draft is very QB weak. It's one (completely acceptable) thing to keep the possibility open if somehow BPA matches need/potential enough early on, but actually trading up in the first round for one of these guys, in the situation the team is in, is insanity mixed with desperation that they shouldn't have.
also that TE is not who we are targeting. I think they really like Ellison to do the dirty work and with Marshall, OBJ, Shep and Perkins and maybe AP (Im holding out hope) no need for a pass catching TE. Especially if they are going for it this year. OL, DL is where its at.
I found them on a Chiefs fan blog site linked below. I trust them, it also explains how they determine "success" which is pretty liberal. They view it simply as starting half your games. We all know starting <> success but it's a way to remove the subjectivity from it. So the numbers in terms of true success (meaning a good player) are probably even lower than those shared. Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Those 2 go well after 23, and probably in the 2nd round.
And you know this because.....???
What's so abnormal about this draft? 32 prospects will be selected in the first round, some will succeed, some will fail. Was it a normal draft when Scherff and Flowers went in the top ten or was that an abnormal draft as well? How do you think Ramczyk and Robinson stack up against Scherff and Flowers coming out of school?
I have a 1st round grade on Robinson and Ramczyk (ahead of Howard, Njoku, Charlton, Reddick, and Cunningham, btw) and you don't. But who the hell are we? We won't know what the professionals think until April 27th. And the professionals don't have such a great track record to begin with.
Milton, you've always been one of my favorite posters. You remain true to your convictions and don't yield ground to the BBI chorus.
Haason Reddick.
I think everyone is overthinking this draft. Giants need to upgrade OL. Period. Our two tackles are the fatal flaw on this roster.
I'm not convinced they will go for a TE in the first let alone trade up for one.
Trade up? Possibly, but not for Howard.
Quote:
It's year four. So I'll stick with has been a disappointment. 7 TD's in three seasons for a guy touted as a red zone difference maker. #10 overall. He'll have a lot of making up to do to justify that pick for the Lions.
He's turning 23 in April. And if you mean "it's year 4" sure, this is his 4th NFL season coming up. Look at the production, it's increased every season. He had more learning to do than they probably realized but he's 22 years old! What 22 year old tight ends in the league currently are catching 60 balls?
Apply said logic to 20 yr old rookie starter, 21 yr old second year starter and 22 yr old soon to be 3rd yr starter LT Flowers, E.
Quote:
In comment 13411017 David B. said:
Quote:
Or they'll get Leonard Floyded again.
THANK YOU CHICAGO!!!!! I for one was eternally grateful
Floyd had a great rookie season, what on Earth are you talking about?
I don't think he fits this defense, and I'm not alone.
I think Howard or Njoku are the players they would like or one of the really good LBs or CBs.
Quote:
I think the player they crave is Howard.
Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.
Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?
Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.
LOL, yeah, "don't be shocked if they trade up in the first or second round"
crazy smokescreen there. Teams will be scrambling to decode this one.
and like last year when they were like an open book with their affinity for Conklin and Floyd hopefully, if they really did like both players, they aren't as open with their thoughts.
Quote:
In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think the player they crave is Howard.
Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.
Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?
Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.
Eric, don't you think it will take at least the 2nd rounder to move up to get Howard? Can't Njoku be an upgrade at TE and checks enough boxes to be the target?
I hope your're right... and i hope they make a move to get him. Offense would be unstoppable.
Haason Reddick.
Thanks for the correction professor.
Quote:
.
LOL, yeah, "don't be shocked if they trade up in the first or second round"
crazy smokescreen there. Teams will be scrambling to decode this one.
and like last year when they were like an open book with their affinity for Conklin and Floyd hopefully, if they really did like both players, they aren't as open with their thoughts.
Guesses from beat writers are all it takes for people to believe that the Giants were crushed or hoodwinked in the draft. According to some it happens every single time whenever the Giants can't draft someone the media has opined they want to. Have any of these claims ever been actually been validated?
I find that it's a bit too convenient to believe that the only time of the year the Giants-related media knows what's going on for sure is the most information-sensitive time of the year.
There would also be other players in the top 40-45 that could help us, depending how the draft falls. Some team or 2 is very likely to pick a guy a round early or whatever and change the dynamic of the draft.
Quote:
In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think the player they crave is Howard.
Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.
Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?
Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.
Agree on both accounts. I think a real TE allows McAdoo to open up the offense in a manner that he is more comfortable with. I don't even think Howard has to be the guy, it just has to be a legitimate TE.
You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.
kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)
they'd likely have to trade up too high for him say #10 or so
Quote:
going to absolutely hate it if Reese starts burning multiple picks to move up in the first round. That's just desperate and stupid. What is the success rate for first round picks? 50%? Just stay put, and take one of the following:
Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.
kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)
It would be a lot more expensive to move up to get Howard. We gave up our fourth, and a seventh we got from Denver for McManus to get Collins. I also said I'm OK with moving up in the first round as long as Reese doesn't give up more than one day three pick.
You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.
You should expect your round 3 and 4 players to at least be able to be back ups and situational players.
Not getting anything out of rounds 3 and 4 are why this roster is paper thin. You can't just decide not to make use of them.
Quote:
In comment 13410859 AcidTest said:
Quote:
going to absolutely hate it if Reese starts burning multiple picks to move up in the first round. That's just desperate and stupid. What is the success rate for first round picks? 50%? Just stay put, and take one of the following:
Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.
kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)
It would be a lot more expensive to move up to get Howard. We gave up our fourth, and a seventh we got from Denver for McManus to get Collins. I also said I'm OK with moving up in the first round as long as Reese doesn't give up more than one day three pick.
Yea but if they go up an get Howard and he becomes a dynamic top TE in the league and helps lead the team to the playoffs , I'd be ok losing a 3rd or next years 2nd
Quote:
round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!
You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.
I want to add that I love Howard. I also think Njoku will be a stud. I guess I would rather keep picks and draft Njoku ( if he lasts to 23 )
lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Ebron is a bust
You should expect your round 3 and 4 players to at least be able to be back ups and situational players.
Not getting anything out of rounds 3 and 4 are why this roster is paper thin. You can't just decide not to make use of them.
Who is throwing up their hands and shrugging? WTF does that even mean?
The whole premise is if the Giants have a player they strongly covet and they believe is unlikely to be there when they pick that being aggressive and moving up to get that player, the player they really want, is a solid strategy.
The fact that 3rd round picks are far more of a crapshoot and Reese has a terrible 3rd round track record make it easier to part with the pick (for those who weren't so willing to begin with). Personally, I don't value the potential of a draft pick vs the strong conviction teams might have on a player as much as some of you.
Quote:
round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!
You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.
ohter 4th rounders: Gary Reasons, Harry Carson, Kevin Belcher, Brandon Jacobs, Keith Hamilton, Lewis Tillman. Billy Taylor.
a trade up for a QB would spiral this site into oblivion
Forget the blocking aspect for his first 1-2 years, he'd be an immediate impact starter as a move-TE in our offense. Imagine teams having to worry about his seam stretching prowess alongside Odell, Marshall, and Shepard. Wow!
It should.
Contrary to those that are already trying to talk the likes of Mahomes up into being an Aaron Rodgers like talent, this draft is very QB weak. It's one (completely acceptable) thing to keep the possibility open if somehow BPA matches need/potential enough early on, but actually trading up in the first round for one of these guys, in the situation the team is in, is insanity mixed with desperation that they shouldn't have.
I found them on a Chiefs fan blog site linked below. I trust them, it also explains how they determine "success" which is pretty liberal. They view it simply as starting half your games. We all know starting <> success but it's a way to remove the subjectivity from it. So the numbers in terms of true success (meaning a good player) are probably even lower than those shared.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think the player they crave is Howard.
Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.
Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?
Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.
+1 Exactly what I was thinking.