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Greater likelihood of trade up this year? Agree with Dottino

Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/29/2017 2:20 pm
GiantsWFAN& #8207; @giantswfan 3m3 minutes ago

Said this on today's BBKL: #Giants moves indicate they are all-in this year, so don't be shocked if they trade up in first or second round
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He's turning 24 in April.  
Torrag : 3/29/2017 4:38 pm : link
And that's irrelevant to the return they've gotten on the investment. 2 lost seasons followed by 61 receptions and no red zone impact from a former #10 overall pick is disappointing. Own it.
RE: RE: Milton: In a normal draft  
Reb8thVA : 3/29/2017 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13411097 Milton said:
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In comment 13411012 Bob in Newburgh said:


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Those 2 go well after 23, and probably in the 2nd round.

And you know this because.....???

What's so abnormal about this draft? 32 prospects will be selected in the first round, some will succeed, some will fail. Was it a normal draft when Scherff and Flowers went in the top ten or was that an abnormal draft as well? How do you think Ramczyk and Robinson stack up against Scherff and Flowers coming out of school?

I have a 1st round grade on Robinson and Ramczyk (ahead of Howard, Njoku, Charlton, Reddick, and Cunningham, btw) and you don't. But who the hell are we? We won't know what the professionals think until April 27th. And the professionals don't have such a great track record to begin with.


Milton, you've always been one of my favorite posters. You remain true to your convictions and don't yield ground to the BBI chorus.
Probably wishful thinking  
OC2.0 : 3/29/2017 4:38 pm : link
But I'm hoping Hassan Riddick drops into our lap.
You can't spell his name but I agree with you  
Torrag : 3/29/2017 4:41 pm : link
'But I'm hoping Hassan Riddick drops into our lap.'

Haason Reddick.
Really doubt Giants want Howard  
averagejoe : 3/29/2017 4:43 pm : link
enough to trade up. Giants utilize TE less than nearly every team and Eli already has two proven weapons in BM and OBJ.

I think everyone is overthinking this draft. Giants need to upgrade OL. Period. Our two tackles are the fatal flaw on this roster.
joe  
Torrag : 3/29/2017 4:44 pm : link
that was a very below average post.
So...  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/29/2017 4:51 pm : link
Given the Giants first round tendencies, many of you actually believe the Giants will trade up for a TE? Seriously?

I'm not convinced they will go for a TE in the first let alone trade up for one.

Trade up? Possibly, but not for Howard.
We moved up 1 spot for Shockey  
David in LA : 3/29/2017 4:56 pm : link
but that was under Accorsi's watch.
RE: RE: I think Ebron is starting to finally get it.  
Victor in CT : 3/29/2017 4:56 pm : link
In comment 13411106 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 13410970 Torrag said:


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It's year four. So I'll stick with has been a disappointment. 7 TD's in three seasons for a guy touted as a red zone difference maker. #10 overall. He'll have a lot of making up to do to justify that pick for the Lions.


He's turning 23 in April. And if you mean "it's year 4" sure, this is his 4th NFL season coming up. Look at the production, it's increased every season. He had more learning to do than they probably realized but he's 22 years old! What 22 year old tight ends in the league currently are catching 60 balls?


Apply said logic to 20 yr old rookie starter, 21 yr old second year starter and 22 yr old soon to be 3rd yr starter LT Flowers, E.
RE: RE: RE: If so, let's hope they don't tip their hand again this year  
Victor in CT : 3/29/2017 4:57 pm : link
In comment 13411074 David in LA said:
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In comment 13411058 Victor in CT said:


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In comment 13411017 David B. said:


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Or they'll get Leonard Floyded again.



THANK YOU CHICAGO!!!!! I for one was eternally grateful



Floyd had a great rookie season, what on Earth are you talking about?


I don't think he fits this defense, and I'm not alone.
Giants aren't wasting a #1 on somebody  
section125 : 3/29/2017 5:11 pm : link
that is coming off an operation and had 1 year at D1. #1 almost certainly needs either impact or to start. I'm not sure Ramcyzk can do either this year.

I think Howard or Njoku are the players they would like or one of the really good LBs or CBs.
RE: RE: ...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/29/2017 5:29 pm : link
In comment 13410805 Emil said:
Quote:
In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I think the player they crave is Howard.



Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.

Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?


Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.
Well one thing's for sure  
jeff57 : 3/29/2017 5:43 pm : link
They won't trade down.
If Howard goes before Njoku  
illmatic : 3/29/2017 5:48 pm : link
then they can't trade up for him. I really can't imagine them trading a second rounder to move up. But if Njoku is there and it only requires a third and something else, I think they jump all over it.
The Giants are not all-in  
Mr. Bungle : 3/29/2017 5:51 pm : link
with THAT offensive line.
And people say the giants are bad at placing smokescreens  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/29/2017 5:56 pm : link
.
RE: And people say the giants are bad at placing smokescreens  
pjcas18 : 3/29/2017 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13411207 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
.


LOL, yeah, "don't be shocked if they trade up in the first or second round"

crazy smokescreen there. Teams will be scrambling to decode this one.

and like last year when they were like an open book with their affinity for Conklin and Floyd hopefully, if they really did like both players, they aren't as open with their thoughts.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Rjanyg : 3/29/2017 6:00 pm : link
In comment 13411183 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13410805 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I think the player they crave is Howard.



Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.

Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?



Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.


Eric, don't you think it will take at least the 2nd rounder to move up to get Howard? Can't Njoku be an upgrade at TE and checks enough boxes to be the target?
I Cannot See The Giants Trading UP In The 1st  
pa_giant_fan : 3/29/2017 6:02 pm : link
But i can see them trading up in the 2nd if Taylor Moton is in striking distance.

RE: ...  
ShocknAwe80 : 3/29/2017 6:27 pm : link
In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think the player they crave is Howard.


I hope your're right... and i hope they make a move to get him. Offense would be unstoppable.
RE: You can't spell his name but I agree with you  
OC2.0 : 3/29/2017 6:30 pm : link
In comment 13411117 Torrag said:
Quote:
'But I'm hoping Hassan Riddick drops into our lap.'

Haason Reddick.


Thanks for the correction professor.
RE: RE: And people say the giants are bad at placing smokescreens  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/29/2017 6:41 pm : link
In comment 13411214 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 13411207 Ten Ton Hammer said:


Quote:


.



LOL, yeah, "don't be shocked if they trade up in the first or second round"

crazy smokescreen there. Teams will be scrambling to decode this one.

and like last year when they were like an open book with their affinity for Conklin and Floyd hopefully, if they really did like both players, they aren't as open with their thoughts.




Guesses from beat writers are all it takes for people to believe that the Giants were crushed or hoodwinked in the draft. According to some it happens every single time whenever the Giants can't draft someone the media has opined they want to. Have any of these claims ever been actually been validated?

I find that it's a bit too convenient to believe that the only time of the year the Giants-related media knows what's going on for sure is the most information-sensitive time of the year.

'Thanks for the correction professor'...  
Torrag : 3/29/2017 6:42 pm : link
You're welcome.
I'm with pa_g_f  
old man : 3/29/2017 7:10 pm : link
Moton goes before 55 IMO.
There would also be other players in the top 40-45 that could help us, depending how the draft falls. Some team or 2 is very likely to pick a guy a round early or whatever and change the dynamic of the draft.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Emil : 3/29/2017 7:19 pm : link
In comment 13411183 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13410805 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I think the player they crave is Howard.



Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.

Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?



Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.


Agree on both accounts. I think a real TE allows McAdoo to open up the offense in a manner that he is more comfortable with. I don't even think Howard has to be the guy, it just has to be a legitimate TE.
Watching people ring their hands about giving up 3rd and 4th  
Mike from Ohio : 3/29/2017 7:33 pm : link
round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!

You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.
RE: I'm  
Rory : 3/29/2017 8:17 pm : link
In comment 13410859 AcidTest said:
Quote:
going to absolutely hate it if Reese starts burning multiple picks to move up in the first round. That's just desperate and stupid. What is the success rate for first round picks? 50%? Just stay put, and take one of the following:

Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.


kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)
RE: ...  
micky : 3/29/2017 8:41 pm : link
In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I think the player they crave is Howard.


they'd likely have to trade up too high for him say #10 or so
RE: RE: I'm  
AcidTest : 3/29/2017 8:57 pm : link
In comment 13411319 Rory said:
Quote:
In comment 13410859 AcidTest said:


Quote:


going to absolutely hate it if Reese starts burning multiple picks to move up in the first round. That's just desperate and stupid. What is the success rate for first round picks? 50%? Just stay put, and take one of the following:

Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.



kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)


It would be a lot more expensive to move up to get Howard. We gave up our fourth, and a seventh we got from Denver for McManus to get Collins. I also said I'm OK with moving up in the first round as long as Reese doesn't give up more than one day three pick.
RE: Watching people ring their hands about giving up 3rd and 4th  
Rjanyg : 3/29/2017 9:07 pm : link
In comment 13411291 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!

You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.


Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.
Third and Fourth rounders are valueable  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/29/2017 9:34 pm : link
I don't think it's wise to throw up your hands and shrug just because they haven't had success with them.

You should expect your round 3 and 4 players to at least be able to be back ups and situational players.

Not getting anything out of rounds 3 and 4 are why this roster is paper thin. You can't just decide not to make use of them.
RE: RE: RE: I'm  
Rory : 3/29/2017 9:39 pm : link
In comment 13411338 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 13411319 Rory said:


Quote:


In comment 13410859 AcidTest said:


Quote:


going to absolutely hate it if Reese starts burning multiple picks to move up in the first round. That's just desperate and stupid. What is the success rate for first round picks? 50%? Just stay put, and take one of the following:

Njoku.
Cunningham.
Bolles.



kinda like how Reese moved up to get Landon Collins in the early 2nd? Trust the GM , Let it play out dude :)



It would be a lot more expensive to move up to get Howard. We gave up our fourth, and a seventh we got from Denver for McManus to get Collins. I also said I'm OK with moving up in the first round as long as Reese doesn't give up more than one day three pick.


Yea but if they go up an get Howard and he becomes a dynamic top TE in the league and helps lead the team to the playoffs , I'd be ok losing a 3rd or next years 2nd
RE: RE: Watching people ring their hands about giving up 3rd and 4th  
Rjanyg : 3/29/2017 9:46 pm : link
In comment 13411348 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13411291 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!

You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.



Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.


I want to add that I love Howard. I also think Njoku will be a stud. I guess I would rather keep picks and draft Njoku ( if he lasts to 23 )
Trust the staff  
mrvax : 3/29/2017 10:59 pm : link
If the Giants give up a lot to grab someone, they must have had damn good reason to.
Does anybody even remember what the Giants gave up  
Toastt34 : 3/30/2017 12:51 am : link
To move up and grab Landon? No. And nobody cares at this point because he's become a stud and a huge piece to this franchise moving forward. I know that was the 2nd round but if there's an impact player they want, go get him. That said, the only guy I would want the Giants to move up and get in the first is OJ. He can change the whole dynamic on offense.
McCaffery, OBJ, Marshall & Shep would be tough to stop on 3rd down!  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/30/2017 3:10 am : link
just sayin'
RE: I think Ebron is starting to finally get it.  
OdellBeckhamJr : 3/30/2017 3:42 am : link
In comment 13410970 Torrag said:
Quote:
It's year four. So I'll stick with has been a disappointment. 7 TD's in three seasons for a guy touted as a red zone difference maker. #10 overall. He'll have a lot of making up to do to justify that pick for the Lions.


lmao what the fuck are you talking about? Ebron is a bust
RE: Does anybody even remember what the Giants gave up  
Milton : 3/30/2017 3:46 am : link
In comment 13411426 Toastt34 said:
Quote:
That said, the only guy I would want the Giants to move up and get in the first is OJ. He can change the whole dynamic on offense.
Like he did for Alabama!
RE: Third and Fourth rounders are valueable  
pjcas18 : 3/30/2017 7:53 am : link
In comment 13411366 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
I don't think it's wise to throw up your hands and shrug just because they haven't had success with them.

You should expect your round 3 and 4 players to at least be able to be back ups and situational players.

Not getting anything out of rounds 3 and 4 are why this roster is paper thin. You can't just decide not to make use of them.


Who is throwing up their hands and shrugging? WTF does that even mean?

The whole premise is if the Giants have a player they strongly covet and they believe is unlikely to be there when they pick that being aggressive and moving up to get that player, the player they really want, is a solid strategy.

The fact that 3rd round picks are far more of a crapshoot and Reese has a terrible 3rd round track record make it easier to part with the pick (for those who weren't so willing to begin with). Personally, I don't value the potential of a draft pick vs the strong conviction teams might have on a player as much as some of you.



it's gonna piss a lot of people off whe they trade up...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/30/2017 7:55 am : link
For a qb
RE: RE: Watching people ring their hands about giving up 3rd and 4th  
Victor in CT : 3/30/2017 8:48 am : link
In comment 13411348 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
In comment 13411291 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


round picks is strange. There is a much better than average chance that whoever we draft in those rounds will never play meaningful snaps for the Giants. Look at the history of the 3rd round picks posted earlier!

You don't give them away, but if they have a conviction on a guy like Howard, go get him.



Barry Cofield was a 4th round pick. Mark Bavaro as well. David Diehl a 5th round pick. Don't diminish the value of draft picks. They would have to give up a lot to move up to get Howard.


ohter 4th rounders: Gary Reasons, Harry Carson, Kevin Belcher, Brandon Jacobs, Keith Hamilton, Lewis Tillman. Billy Taylor.
trade up  
annexOPR : 3/30/2017 9:56 am : link
for 1 of the stud TE prospects / DL / LB

a trade up for a QB would spiral this site into oblivion
if Ebron was a second or third round pick  
djm : 3/30/2017 9:57 am : link
he'd be a nice player with room to grow into an even better player. He did nothing his first year or two and finally showed something last year. He's OK. Problem is he was picked 10th in a great draft. The Lions passed on franchise players to take Ebron. He's not a bad player. I'd want him on the Giants but he's a bust when you factor in where he was picked. And let's be honest Ebron is unlikely to morph into Gronk this coming season. He might get better but after 3 years it's probably safe to say he is what he is at this point. I'm not even sure he's a good blocker. I doubt it. So he's a decent receiving TE. Lions would do the pick over if they could.
I guess you can give him one more year  
djm : 3/30/2017 9:58 am : link
EBron is still very young. Maybe he has a lot of room to grow.
I'd Love To See The Giants Draft David Njoku  
BigBlue1968 : 3/30/2017 1:19 pm : link
Aside from all the discussion about who the Giants will take in the 1st round, I really want them to draft Miami TE David Njoku. He shined again at his recent Pro Day and there is something about this kid that make teams drool about his long-term upside.

Forget the blocking aspect for his first 1-2 years, he'd be an immediate impact starter as a move-TE in our offense. Imagine teams having to worry about his seam stretching prowess alongside Odell, Marshall, and Shepard. Wow!
RE: it's gonna piss a lot of people off whe they trade up...  
Devon : 3/30/2017 1:53 pm : link
In comment 13411480 Dan in the Springs said:
Quote:
For a qb


It should.

Contrary to those that are already trying to talk the likes of Mahomes up into being an Aaron Rodgers like talent, this draft is very QB weak. It's one (completely acceptable) thing to keep the possibility open if somehow BPA matches need/potential enough early on, but actually trading up in the first round for one of these guys, in the situation the team is in, is insanity mixed with desperation that they shouldn't have.
Im in the camp  
Fish : 3/30/2017 3:54 pm : link
also that TE is not who we are targeting. I think they really like Ellison to do the dirty work and with Marshall, OBJ, Shep and Perkins and maybe AP (Im holding out hope) no need for a pass catching TE. Especially if they are going for it this year. OL, DL is where its at.
Cool chatrt, pjcas18  
Reese's Pieces : 3/30/2017 5:46 pm : link
Where do the numbers come from?
RE: Cool chatrt, pjcas18  
pjcas18 : 3/30/2017 8:29 pm : link
In comment 13412377 Reese's Pieces said:
Quote:
Where do the numbers come from?


I found them on a Chiefs fan blog site linked below. I trust them, it also explains how they determine "success" which is pretty liberal. They view it simply as starting half your games. We all know starting <> success but it's a way to remove the subjectivity from it. So the numbers in terms of true success (meaning a good player) are probably even lower than those shared.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Jay in Toronto : 3/30/2017 8:50 pm : link
In comment 13411183 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 13410805 Emil said:


Quote:


In comment 13410786 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I think the player they crave is Howard.



Eric, I think he is a generational talent a the position. A complete TE in a world where there are very few of those.

Can you elaborate why you think they crave Howard?



Emil, I think the Green Bay offense is centered around the tight end. I think the fact we haven't had a legit tight end has crippled this offense.


+1 Exactly what I was thinking.
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