NFT: 3/29: Yankees chat

In comment 13411037 PaulN said:

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Al Kaline came out of high school.

He's the only one in about 60 years. Even Mickey Mantle needed seasoning.

Said that if all went well they could compete for a wild card spot. That is fair, but it's tough for all to go well.

In comment 13411047 bigbluehoya said:

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People will think differently by there time next offseason gets here.

maybe. but a big "show me" there.

In comment 13410852 PaulN said:

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The Yanks may fuck this up. I knew it, and if they do it is all on Cashman, no more excuses for this guy.

Lol...you knew it? You're basing this off talking heads nonsense...but you knew it.

Aaron Judge will be fine if he's sent down. The Yanks don't destroy prospects no matter what some of you insist on believing.

Mickey was sent down for a cup of coffee when he started to struggle, he never played a minor league game before he got here, don't bullshit now. That is what you said. Listen I am done, I am not arguing that fucking point, okay, read what I said, not what you wish I would say so you can kill me. I don't trust the Yankees to stick with a rebuilding process, that was my entire point. They get the names built up and then trade them, when they do different, and I see it, I'll believe it. They only =did that when George was suspended and Gene ran the show.

but I just have a bad feeling about Judge. I just don't like his overall swing or approach but I pray I am wrong. It was only his first go at it so there's a lot of time for him to mature but I don't know...he just doesn't look like a future star in the making to me.

The problem with that is their trade value tanks at that point once a slow start to the career takes off some of that top prospect shine. Give you an example - Paul Konerko. When he was 21 years old, Konerko was BA's #2 prospect in all of baseball. He absolutely destroyed minor league pitching, hitting .304/.399/.545 with 30 homers between AA and AAA. He struggled mightily over two season with the Dodgers, hitting only .212 with 4 homers. The Dodgers ended up trading him (and Dennis Reyes) for....Jeff Shaw. That's it. A good reliever is all Konerko fetched after falling flat on his face.

Then we will talk. I hope they stick with it, but I am afraid they won't and Quintana will be the prize, and Frazier the casualty. Yes it's talking heads, but what are we dong, talking heads right.

I am almost OK with trading for Quintana. I get that you don't like Harper, and yes, he is a very polarizing player, but if the backup plan was:
-Trade a combo package headlined by Frazier to CHW for Quintana.
-Sign Harper as a UFA to play in LF/RF

Then I don't think we've set the team back.

I agree that I believe Harper will have some people singing a different tune next year. I also think his bat in Yankee Stadium is a great match. Most people are forgetting that Harper is older than Sanchez by about 50 days, that's it. Only about 2 years older than Frazier. (24 to 22). Yes, he's going to get paid, just like every major star coming to market in the next years, but what, a mega deal from the Yankees (8 years at whatever dollars), takes him through his age 33 season? He still would have some tread on his tires when the contract is over. This wouldn't be signing up for his 35+ seasons I don't think.

You have to give something to get something in the SP market. Instead of spending mega bucks on a FA starter (which I believe is more risky than spending on a position player), you get Quintana who is under team control through the 2020 season at a great price. Lefty starter that's only 28 years old, and has thrown 200 innings in each of the last 4 seasons with a sub 1.3 WHIP.

This case wouldn't be selling the prospects for an aging vet. This would be selling the prospects for the right cause. Just my opinion.

Low minors, though, class D and C in the old, much larger minor league system. He struggled early in his rookie season, was sent down to AA for a while, then came back up.

Maybe they should have stuck it out, right, they traded him, right. You stick with the guys you believe in. Judge is a guy that may not make it, but he has adjusted at each level in time, so now he is here and needs time, not to be sent down to dominate aaa ball so he can be traded, I want to see him here, don't you? Judge is no sure thing, that I will say, that is my opinion. but he does look better so far, but it's only pre season. need to see him here.

In comment 13411065 PaulN said:

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Mickey was sent down for a cup of coffee when he started to struggle, he never played a minor league game before he got here, don't bullshit now.

Mantle played two full seasons in the minors, 1949 and 1950, at Independence and Joplin.

when was the last time the Yanks traded the wrong prospect? Forget this shit with rebuilding or giving up or whatever it is you're paranoid about. When was the last time the Yanks dumped or traded a prospect that REALLY came back to haunt us?

The Yankees displayed a clear and cut plan last year. They were in the race two straight seasons and didn't make any now trades. Not one. Yet here you are blasting Cashman as if he just traded Bird and Judge for Rick Rhoden. You worry too much. Relax. The Yanks are clearly rebuilding and taking the long game approach. Clearly. If they were going to fuck this up they wouldn't have traded vets for prospects last August. And they would have gone all in two years ago.

But some of you are acting like it'd be along the lines of trading for Bartolo Colon or something. He just turned 28 and he's been a consistently good pitcher since the day the White Sox brought him up.

I would make peace with the Yanks trading some prospects over the next few years. It's going to happen. It has to happen. Hope they keep the right ones and deal the right ones but most teams can't keep them all and the Yanks will need to move one chip for a need or two.

In comment 13411065 PaulN said:

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Mickey was sent down for a cup of coffee when he started to struggle, he never played a minor league game before he got here, don't bullshit now. That is what you said. Listen I am done, I am not arguing that fucking point, okay, read what I said, not what you wish I would say so you can kill me. I don't trust the Yankees to stick with a rebuilding process, that was my entire point. They get the names built up and then trade them, when they do different, and I see it, I'll believe it. They only =did that when George was suspended and Gene ran the show.

You're the bullshitter. Get a clue. Mantle did not come to the Yankees directly from High School. He played 2 full seasons in the minors (1949 and 1950), made the team in 1951, sent down for about 2 months, then came back.
Mickey Mantle Stats - ( New Window )

Didn't to start, He was 17, okay, he played at 17 in minor league ball, that is true. Right out of high school.

the task now is to identify the keepers and develop them, and then trade some of the rest for need to round out the team for championships, as the Cubs just did and as the Yankees did in the mid '90s and every team that has long term success does.

You get a handle full of homegrowns to develop, it makes the world overvalue the remainders.

Ruben Rivera is a punchline now, but he was a very highly rated prospect in the mid '90s who actually hit well in his 1996 MLB debut. They dealt Gerald Williams, who was supposed to be the better of the two Williamses. They traded Russ Davis. They traded Mike Lowell. They traded Eric Milton.

They won't all succeed as big leaguers, and even if they did there isn't room for all of them on one team. Don't freak out until there's a reason to freak out.

About Mickey. They traded a lot of great prospects in the past, but not in the Cashman era, I will say that, but we haven't had any either to brag about, right, can't fuck up what you don't have. We'll see, I stirred it up enough. LOL.

In comment 13411093 PaulN said:

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Didn't to start, He was 17, okay, he played at 17 in minor league ball, that is true. Right out of high school.

and 18. 2 years of minor league ball while he transitioned from scatter armed SS to stud CF.

Arods. He is blocking the progress of the big club to get better by not being able to bring up the kids up.
If he was gone you have Hicks Gardner Judge and even might have a call up of Fraizer by the ASB if he tears up AAA.

Torres hitting will push his way up to the big club before the end of this year.

Where is Holiday playing besides DH? Bird is the everyday guy at 1st.

I was. Remember, Cashman didn't build the first run, that was Gene Micheal. I hope Cashman is up to it because they have a lot of talent, that anyone can see.

I am a shit stirrer, not a bullshitter, I did forget he was in the minors at 17 and 18 though. LOL. No offense to you, only playing my part and doing my job. LOL.

No, it's not a setback, it's the approach they always take. LOL. I would rather keep Frazier and see what he becomes. You will need to pay him 30 mil per to sign him. he gets hurt bad once, and that could screw the pooch. I don't like it at all. Nope. I believe the new era will be almost like the old days, building teams from within. It's too expensive any other way, it's more like football now. It's actually heading in that direction.

I thought they said he was a major league ready defensive SS when they drafted him out of college? Left season in minors he was raved about? Haven't heard a thing about him since last fall.

In comment 13411126 NJ_GIANTS said:

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I thought they said he was a major league ready defensive SS when they drafted him out of college? Left season in minors he was raved about? Haven't heard a thing about him since last fall.

Actually did very well at Low A. Didn't hit for power but hit .290 on the season (.331 in the second half) and had a solid contact tool. Rave reviews for the glove, considered one of the best SS gloves in all of minor league baseball. Will probably be at High A this year.

In comment 13411047 bigbluehoya said:

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People will think differently by there time next offseason gets here.

Harper will be a Yankee. It's just a question of when and whom Washington gets. Getting Judge ABs at Scranton doesn't make sense. Hicks can't hit. He's a 4-tool player. Why waste time ?

In comment 13411109 PaulN said:

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I was. Remember, Cashman didn't build the first run, that was Gene Micheal. I hope Cashman is up to it because they have a lot of talent, that anyone can see.

You say they have a lot of talent and then ask if Cashman is up for it? You do realize Cashman is the one who brought all that "talent" into the organization, right? That he had to push Hal for permission to trade Miller and Chapman next year, right?

Honestly your posts don't make any sense. Give it a rest.

In comment 13411113 PaulN said:

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I am a shit stirrer, not a bullshitter, I did forget he was in the minors at 17 and 18 though. LOL. No offense to you, only playing my part and doing my job. LOL.

HA! Fair enough.

I was just wondering why he's left out of all the SS conversations, he was a 1st round pick and is playing great. I just read they called him up to the major camp this past Sunday.

In comment 13411128 Dunedin81 said:

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In comment 13411126 NJ_GIANTS said: Quote: I thought they said he was a major league ready defensive SS when they drafted him out of college? Left season in minors he was raved about? Haven't heard a thing about him since last fall. Actually did very well at Low A. Didn't hit for power but hit .290 on the season (.331 in the second half) and had a solid contact tool. Rave reviews for the glove, considered one of the best SS gloves in all of minor league baseball. Will probably be at High A this year.

If they want a big time prospect, Manny Machado is the one. Harper just irks me. If he does well this year, I might change my mind.

Cannot believe Judge will go down. Who stays? Ellsbury, Gardner, Hicks and ???. Judge stays. Austin still on DL. McKinney, Fowler and Frazier have been sent down. Keep Kozma as IF/OF until Didi returns??? I'm drawing a blank on the 4th OF?

Even if Judge goes down, he'll be back by May, latest. Ellsbury should be on DL by then.

with a serviceable bat. But Torres and a couple other SS prospects - and Didi for that matter - may prevent him from doing so in a Yankee uniform. It's a nice problem to have.

In comment 13411030 Victor in CT said:

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In comment 13411023 PaulN said: Quote: 85 wins would be GREAT. I don't care about the wins though, I want to see Torres play everyday. I get making him play in AA and AAA to prove himself there first, I am not making a big deal of it, I am only saying what CASHMAN said, he said on TV, on the YES network, that EVERYONE wanted Torres here, go argue with them, okay, not me. I am only telling you what Cashman said. I thought, in my opinion, that Torres is ready. Okay, that is my opinion, but it's not a huge deal for him to start out in the minors, I am afraid they will start to trade these prospects for a guy like Quintana, and Frazier is the guy that would go, you okay with that since we will add the right fielder from Washington? I am not. I don't want him, I want to play the kids we have. After 3 years then decide who is expandable, not now. I definitely DON"T want Harper. 1 big year in 5 and a doosh. Mike Trout he is not.

If the top young talent on this team gels, Harper would be an expensive luxury that the team wouldn't need. The team currently has Sanchez, Judge, Bird, Torres that should make up the core for years to come. Behind them they have Frazier, Rutherford, Mateo, and McKinney that could all be very productive major leaguers for a long time. You could keep most of these guys for the money it would take to get Harper.

In comment 13411122 PaulN said:

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No, it's not a setback, it's the approach they always take. LOL. I would rather keep Frazier and see what he becomes. You will need to pay him 30 mil per to sign him. he gets hurt bad once, and that could screw the pooch. I don't like it at all. Nope. I believe the new era will be almost like the old days, building teams from within. It's too expensive any other way, it's more like football now. It's actually heading in that direction.

But it's not. Trading for a Quintana bucks a lot of the old Yankee ways in that he is still only a 28 year old pitcher with 3+ seasons of team control left.

You can make the injury point about literally any free agent signing, any. If Mike Trout were to become a FA, and we signed him to the big bucks and he gets hurt, guess what we're screwed in the same way. That is a blanket statement that can be applied to any FA signing.

The old days, you say. Go back to the late 90's-early 00's dynasty days. Skim through our top 10 guys by WAR each year and how many were FA signings/trades. It's just a fact that you can't keep all of your homegrown players, can't. You try and pick the best long term keepers, and supplement the team in FA and trades.
1996- Top 10 from Elsewhere w/ WAR Rating on Team:
#4- Paul O'Neill
#5- Kenny Rogers
#6- Wade Boggs
#8- Jimmy Key
#9- David Cone
#10- Mariano Duncan

98:
2- O'Neill
3- Brosius
5- Wells
6- Cone
8- Tino

99:
3- Cone
6- Knoblauch
7- Clemens
8- O'Neill
10- Tino

00:
4- Clemens
6- Justice
9- Nelson

01:
1- Mussina
2- Clemens
8- Stanton
9- Tino
10- Brosius

Yes, we have the makings of another great core, but getting a young SP like a Quintana is the sort of move that a team with this depth of prospects can make. Still in the farm at OF with major league potential are guys like Fowler, Rutherford, with Judge here at the doorstep. Simply can't keep all the young kids. Another conversation if you're a believer in Quintana or not, but I'm not going to go there. Just that he fits the bill of a player to target.

Who is arguing all that. Okay he has 3 years of eligibility, that is a huge positive along with his low salary, I know all this. It is a typical Yankee move though. But I agree they will not keep all the prospects, but I am telling you this, you can't operate like we did back in the late 90's buddy.

The new collective bargaining agreement is almost like a hard cap now, think about football, most the team is made up of homegrown prospects from the draft, trades are far a few between, you use free agency very carefully, sometimes to put your self over the top, sometimes to full positions cheap. This is the future of baseball manning.

It is heading in that direction. So in my view to be successful moving forward you will need to have most of your team made up of young players within the first 6 years of eligibility, or you will have a hard time to field a team within the cap, this is exactly where baseball is headed.

Will cost 30 mil per and a minimum of 8 years. The yanks must stay away from that, it is how they will screw everything up. Quintana is not going to screw anything up at all, only what prospects you give up, that I will say to you. I don't want to give up Frazier, I would give up Judge before I would give up Frazier.

Is so valuable because he has 3 years more and his contract is so reasonable. But that does not mean he will continue to be happy if he came here and won 16 games. Then it all changes.

In comment 13411174 PaulN said:

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Will cost 30 mil per and a minimum of 8 years. The yanks must stay away from that, it is how they will screw everything up. Quintana is not going to screw anything up at all, only what prospects you give up, that I will say to you. I don't want to give up Frazier, I would give up Judge before I would give up Frazier.

Agree the Ball screams when it comes off Fraizer's bat. You can see a 25-30 HR guy in the bigs when he fills in.

Is not that good. He is a 3rd starter, no better, he has won 10 games once, his ERA is good, no doubt, and he is a lefty, but he is looked at as so valuable because of his contract more then anything. I don't really want to give up a top prospect for a mediocre pitcher just because he is locked up for three more years under a nice contract. I hope to have a third starter that is young, under control, and can give me numbers like that, yes, no doubt he is an ideal number 3. But I'm going to give up Frazier's potential for that. No way in the world.
Link - ( New Window )

a team that say in 2 years features:
Fowler- CF
Judge/Harper- Corner OF
Andujar- 3B
Torres- SS
Didi- 2B
Bird- 1B
Sanchez- C

Not fit that bill. Granted I'm higher on Andujar than most, but that right there would be a team of 6 home grown starting position players of 8. How many teams in the majors today boast that? Just as you said that is a team made of of a majority of homegrown talent. We also have to accept right now that we may not even hit on half of these prospects. That's why they're just that, prospects.

Add in pitchers like:
Betances
Montgomrey
Severino
Adams
Mitchell/Greene

And no doubt I'd trade Judge over Frazier at this point. I'm sure most fans would. There's a reason talks for Quintana start at Frazier and not Judge. Quintana is that valuable for what he is. Look at what our very own relievers fetched in the trade market. Look at the Adam Eaton trade, the Sale trade, you're going to trade prospects.

I'm not discounting Frazier at all, certainly not. But our team needs are starting pitching currently AND in the future, and we have a glut of prospects, it's just smart management to trade from strength to fill weakness, and Quintana would certainly be a player to target as his age/contract are both extremely team friendly. They're not going to accept a package around Judge and middling prospects that you don't like. If Tanaka opts out next year and goes elsewhere what exactly do we have to go along with these stud position player prospects in the rotation?

So either we pay for a high end position player, or for a high end starter? Which side do you fall on? An 8 year deal for Harper at 26 years old, or a similar deal in length for a pitcher?

In comment 13411185 PaulN said:

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Is not that good. He is a 3rd starter, no better, he has won 10 games once, his ERA is good, no doubt, and he is a lefty, but he is looked at as so valuable because of his contract more then anything. I don't really want to give up a top prospect for a mediocre pitcher just because he is locked up for three more years under a nice contract. I hope to have a third starter that is young, under control, and can give me numbers like that, yes, no doubt he is an ideal number 3. But I'm going to give up Frazier's potential for that. No way in the world. Link - ( New Window )

I know his numbers. You seem like one of the people who look at a football team's wins and judge the play of the QB solely on that. His ERA is stellar, his WHIP is stellar, and he has no major injury concerns.

Of course his wins are low, the White Sox haven't been good since 2012, before he entered the league. They've finished 4th in central for 3 straight years, and last the year before that.

Felix Hernandez eclipsed 15 wins 3 times in his 12 year career, am I to believe he's not a good pitcher because of that? Before last year's 17 win season Chris Sale had 13-12-11 wins in order, is he not good? Tanaka has 14-13-12 wins in his 3 years with the Yanks..A child would quote the wins and use that as the end all-be all. Quintana's not on their level but you quoting his wins and calling him a #3 pitcher off that is simply wrong.

In comment 13411187 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:

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a team that say in 2 years features: Fowler- CF Judge/Harper- Corner OF Andujar- 3B Torres- SS Didi- 2B Bird- 1B Sanchez- C Not fit that bill. Granted I'm higher on Andujar than most, but that right there would be a team of 6 home grown starting position players of 8. How many teams in the majors today boast that? Just as you said that is a team made of of a majority of homegrown talent. We also have to accept right now that we may not even hit on half of these prospects. That's why they're just that, prospects. Add in pitchers like: Betances Montgomrey Severino Adams Mitchell/Greene And no doubt I'd trade Judge over Frazier at this point. I'm sure most fans would. There's a reason talks for Quintana start at Frazier and not Judge. Quintana is that valuable for what he is. Look at what our very own relievers fetched in the trade market. Look at the Adam Eaton trade, the Sale trade, you're going to trade prospects. I'm not discounting Frazier at all, certainly not. But our team needs are starting pitching currently AND in the future, and we have a glut of prospects, it's just smart management to trade from strength to fill weakness, and Quintana would certainly be a player to target as his age/contract are both extremely team friendly. They're not going to accept a package around Judge and middling prospects that you don't like. If Tanaka opts out next year and goes elsewhere what exactly do we have to go along with these stud position player prospects in the rotation? So either we pay for a high end position player, or for a high end starter? Which side do you fall on? An 8 year deal for Harper at 26 years old, or a similar deal in length for a pitcher?

No to Harper. Too much money and not enough production.

That's a fireable offense

and that makes me wonder if going after Harper even makes sense.

Keep in mind, that the best outfielder in the minors is likely Rutherford. The kid is unbelievable.

I would be happier to see the Yanks court Machado over Harper and go all in on Shohei Ohtani. If you break the bank for Harper, who do you get rid of to make room for him?

Outfield: Frazier, Rutherford, and Judge (with Hicks, Fowler, McKinney, Jake Cave, even Mateo available and wanting a spot in the lineup)

Infield: of Bird, Torres, Didi, Machado, (with Mateo also available)

Catcher: Sanchez

That is an explosive hard hitting lineup in there that will be deserving a cool nickname.

In comment 13411213 mavric said:

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and that makes me wonder if going after Harper even makes sense. Keep in mind, that the best outfielder in the minors is likely Rutherford. The kid is unbelievable. I would be happier to see the Yanks court Machado over Harper and go all in on Shohei Ohtani. If you break the bank for Harper, who do you get rid of to make room for him? Outfield: Frazier, Rutherford, and Judge (with Hicks, Fowler, McKinney, Jake Cave, even Mateo available and wanting a spot in the lineup) Infield: of Bird, Torres, Didi, Machado, (with Mateo also available) Catcher: Sanchez That is an explosive hard hitting lineup in there that will be deserving a cool nickname.

I agree here. I'd much rather break the bank on Machado, over Harper. I'm just connecting the dots on some reports that have come out recently, and the team's known interest in Quintana, and what realisitcally it would take to get him.

On a below market deal. The going rate for that is quite high. The problem is that in NYS his HR rate is likely going to be quite high, and so fo the Yanks I don't think it's good value. A strikeout pitcher or a GB pitcher maybe, but a fly ball pitcher at YS is likely to have problems. Good pitcher, bad fit (at least at that price).

In comment 13411271 Dunedin81 said:

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On a below market deal. The going rate for that is quite high. The problem is that in NYS his HR rate is likely going to be quite high, and so fo the Yanks I don't think it's good value. A strikeout pitcher or a GB pitcher maybe, but a fly ball pitcher at YS is likely to have problems. Good pitcher, bad fit (at least at that price).

Good point...

why would they keep Montgomery out of this year's starting five? He had another very impressive outing today, 1 run in 5 innings with 4 k's. Who out of the choices for the 4 and 5 slots are pitching better?

I would rather have Severino in AAA working out the kinks. The other choices don't excite me.

not at the current ask. Someone else can overpay.

Go full on millennial movement.