Giants’ additions could fix their offensive predictability

But they just replaced Cruz with Marshall.

The person that could benefit the most is Flowers. Having to pass protect that much is just more opportunities for pressures and sacks. Maybe they try some 2 TE sets this year and balance the run/pass mix a little.

WR is now even more of a strength than last year. Adding Ellison doesn't make TE a strength.

They can play Ellison at FB but 3 WRs is still and even more clearly the best option (sorry for the sloppy posts)

In comment 13411487 gersh said:

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WR is now even more of a strength than last year. Adding Ellison doesn't make TE a strength.

No it doesn't, but it certainly improves TE and running, which makes the offense less predictable.

that would certainly help matters.

career passes. Why? Doesn't get open? Hands like Howard Cross? Or, he just doesn't get thrown to?

you more options and make the team less predictable.

Clearly, what would give the Giants the option to be less predictable in the passing game is to give Eli more time in the pocket and less predictable in the running game by being able to open holes on either side of the line, and (dare I say it?) even run around end.

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start to show. Ellison will help some. I'm not expecting much from Fluker.

new players will give us more groupings, but along with the development of Adams and Perkins, we will also be better when we do use 11 personnel.

improve that situation. We have 1 TE who can play - Ellison. We still don't have a FB. Teams are begging us to put Tye on the field and throw the ball to him. Adams looked forgettable.

Ellison can't play FB and TE at the same time.

We still need ANOTHER playmaking TE to unlock the offense, allowing Rhett (who isn't scaring anyone) to move around like he did in MIN and give the D different looks.

In comment 13411499 mrvax said:

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career passes. Why? Doesn't get open? Hands like Howard Cross? Or, he just doesn't get thrown to?

He was stuck behind a very good pass-catching TE in Kyle Rudolph his whole career. Minnesota has also been a predominantly rushing attack offense for the whole time he has been there with AP. You add it up and it makes sense. He was a blocking TE in every sense.

In comment 13411499 mrvax said:

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career passes. Why? Doesn't get open? Hands like Howard Cross? Or, he just doesn't get thrown to?

I don't think Ellison is on his level as a blocker or receiver, but Ellison's stint in MN is similar to Bennett's with Dallas (stuck behind Witten). Ellison was underutilized since pro-bowler Kyle Rudolph was the #1 TE and a very good 2-way player. And while Bennett had more catches (85 rec vs 51) in less seasons (4 vs 5) some of that difference was due to the level of QB play on both teams.

Unless the Giants get a TE (Howard/Njoku/etc) in the draft that can compete for #1 reps, I can see Ellison getting 40-50 rec for ~500 yds. He's going to be the 4th or 5th option in the passing game after Beckham, Shepard, Marshall, and possibly Vereen.

In comment 13411550 area junc said:

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Ellison can't play FB and TE at the same time.

No, but with Ellison's blocking ability they can go with 2 TEs and be a threat to run or pass. When your 2 TEs are Tye and Donnell, D's didn't even need to counter with an 8 man box because they knew Donnell and/or Tye were going to get blown up and even with a blocker per defender (5 OL + 2 TEs vs front 7) teams were confident someone would get free to take down the RB.

With Ellison in the fold, 2 TE looks should at least get the safety to hesitate on play action. That happens and Beckham will be running free.

Plus, they likely plan to line Ellison up as an H-Back often and move him around pre-snap. Tye/Donnell as lead blockers just clogged the lane, Ellison might actually help open a hole.


(and hopefully Adams makes big strides and becomes the #2 TE)

to make this team less predictable, even with the same personnel on the field. I think Fluker and Ellison go a long way toward fixing that problem.

and provide that extra, dependable blocking that we've been missing for years at TE. Whatever we get from him in the passing game is gravy and with him being the 4th or 5th option in the passing game, I'm fine with that.

We all want a game-changer at TE but opening up the running game is just as important, IMO.

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elision's blocking ability/versatility combined with the exponential upgrade @ WR from Cruz to Marshall + Shep in year 2 ... this offense will actually be able to sustain drives

don't need them to be a top 5 offense to make a super bowl run ... just no more TD or 3 and out like every drive seemed to be last year.

Fluker's an excellent risk/reward gamble as well.

Perkins increased playing time should also do wonders for the run game ... he can actually can 5 yards without a gaping hole.

You have the ability as a play-caller to change formations. What in the world, outside of a receiver not grasping route concepts would prevent you from going 4 wide on occasion to stop defenses from bracketing your best weapon?

to bust the cover-2 defense that teams used so successfully against the Giants last year.

In comment 13411629 annexOPR said:

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elision's blocking ability/versatility combined with the exponential upgrade @ WR from Cruz to Marshall + Shep in year 2 ... this offense will actually be able to sustain drives don't need them to be a top 5 offense to make a super bowl run ... just no more TD or 3 and out like every drive seemed to be last year. Fluker's an excellent risk/reward gamble as well. Perkins increased playing time should also do wonders for the run game ... he can actually can 5 yards without a gaping hole.

Agree on Perkins, he has the ability to make something out of nothing

a real pro tight end can add the most, in any variety of functions, both sides left and right, and I would assume that if the team can run those much more often, yes, that helps the tackles immensely for reasons stated above, help set up play action / roll outs, and generally would improve variety of O.

In comment 13411622 yatqb said:

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If you saw McAdoo's comments yesterday, we're not gonna bring a FB in unless he can also be a major contributor to ST. McAdoo said a true FB would only get 6-8 plays a game in his offense. Not enough to justify a roster spot.

(tight end pulls left) with bootleg right, as a possibility or option, to drag route to slot wr stacked under the left wideout"

or some shit like that

is constructed, to fit what Mac and Sully seem to really want to do, and also to, happens to as well, though not the goal, enable more under center play:

Rather than nifty athletic G/C/G combination for tricky interior runs, you have a big assed G/C/G combo to keep the close in pocket clean on all those pass plays on short yardage:

Then, rather than asking the OTs to pass protect a on every play, you run a much, much higher % of outside zone runs, to enable the OTs and TEs (subject of this thread?) to tee off (rather than the DEs teeing off) and run play action off those outside zones as a change up.

Reason being those changes allow for a bigger G/C/G combo that wont get pushed back when we do revert to obvious set passing all the time, such as on 3rd and short like we did last year, and to diversify the playbook.

In comment 13411489 gersh said:

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They can play Ellison at FB but 3 WRs is still and even more clearly the best option (sorry for the sloppy posts)

Ellison is an inline TE. He can play FB but he's a TE who will play a lot of TE in this offense.

In comment 13411499 mrvax said:

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career passes. Why? Doesn't get open? Hands like Howard Cross? Or, he just doesn't get thrown to?

He's been in the league for only 4 years and was behind Kyle Rudolph in Minny. I wouldn't expect Ellison to set the world on fire as a receiving TE but he's far from terrible. Think MArtelles Bennett in Dallas. Not to say Ellison will be a perennial 50-60 catch TE from here on out, but he could be. At the very least I think he will be a 30-40 catch guy who can block. Sorely needed.

IF the Giants don't take a TE in this draft at least they can run two TEs now with Tye/Adams and Ellison.

problem is the Giants lost two by the time the season was underway. There must not have been any viable FBs on the street. Maybe they draft a guy in April.

Shanny Jr. ran lots of zone from under center.

Perkins can fill that roll, bouncing to outside left with zone blocked runs and setting up play action bootlegs right which two types of plays together, I think, accounted for last years best offense?

In comment 13411550 area junc said:

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improve that situation. We have 1 TE who can play - Ellison. We still don't have a FB. Teams are begging us to put Tye on the field and throw the ball to him. Adams looked forgettable. Ellison can't play FB and TE at the same time. We still need ANOTHER playmaking TE to unlock the offense, allowing Rhett (who isn't scaring anyone) to move around like he did in MIN and give the D different looks.

Adams - I could see Ellison as H-back, Adams on the line, run right... Giants hopefully will be able to run the ball this year.

''The Yankee route traces back to Shanahan's time in Washington with Robert Griffin III at quarterback. It's a deep play-action concept designed to create an open throwing lane by occupying the top of the defense. Throw in some added window dressing, and this is a tough concept to defend.

The Falcons align the wide receivers in reduced splits tight to the core of the formation (false run keys) {{Marshal for us, run blocker or fake run blocker from slot left]] and use the run action to remove the underneath defenders. At the snap, the >>>>tight end (Y) comes back across the formation on the arc block<<<<<<, with Freeman (H) on the downhill zone action and Gabriel on the reverse (W). This allows Ryan (Q) to go through two play-action fakes while Jones (X) runs the deep post. That removes the backside cornerback and occupies the safety in the deep middle of the field.

With Sanu (Z) working back on the deep crossing route, Ryan can set his feet off the play-action and target the receiver in the now-vacated area of the field. This is a classic "shot zone" play for Shanahan (ball between the 40s), creating an opportunity for the Falcons to flip the field or advance into scoring position.
''

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QB coach.

I think its probably a fallacy that one needs 'pulling type guards' to run outside zone, one certainly does not seem to use them very well in 'macadoo ball'

So therein lies my emphasis in putting a 'running type' Pugh back to left tackle, (where in outside zone you may need a 'running type' tackle) and getting (DRAFTING at least partially at this point) the leagues best (or biggest more to the point) G-C-G combo, which may bode well both. for.:

macaddo ball and be just fine for for outside zone running (which I believe is a proven play action feeder and run creator in modern ball ala Falcons, and pulling the TE instead at times) and which we lacked last year, it seems, statistically.

translations:

'mac ball' pass first and simple pass even on short yardage (pulling guards not needed but big ones needed especially for eli)

'outside zone runs' and play action off those (tight ends and tackles may need to -move in space- at times to run block effectively enough to create play action opps)

Do you propose to play Tye as TE? Ellison is better at TE then Tye. And Tye maybe the better H-back.

is payback for the Vikings taking Visanthe Shiancoe. Shiancoe was stuck behind Shockey and did very little in his time with the Giants. When he left via free agency he blossomed as the #1 TE. Now they are very different players but it's possible that Ellison becomes a very solid all around TE that catches 40-55 passes for 500 receiving yards.

It's third and short yardage.....

Our Drafted TE is on the right side, Ellison is in the backfield with Perkins.....Last second, Eli shifts Ellison outside of LT.....Giants can run left OR right, or play action to Perkins, or Eli just goes back to pass.....so many options for Eli, based on the way the defense lines up....

I'm glad Ellison can block, and they can put him in motion and he can be a lead blocker sometimes, but I hope Mac runs 11 personnel 95% of the time again. It's great to have a lot of formations and different offensive packages, but you know what else is great? Having a line that can open up holes for a run game. This brings safeties closer to the line of scrimmage, allowing more space for receivers to get open. And if that same offensive line can also better protect Eli, along with the defenses having to respect the run, Eli will be much better. Throw in Brandon Marshall, a tall receiver who is a tough playmaker who will be a big factor on 3rd downs and in the red zone, this Giants offense can be great. The pieces are all coming together. I dont care about a full back. I would much rather have Perkins be a guy who can run through holes that the offensive line opens, and be a dynamic receiver out of the backfield. Put all the best weapons on the field and let Mac call the shots. it will be a lot more effective than last season and I doubt anyone will be complaining about using 11 personnel all the time.

In comment 13411886 djm said:

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In comment 13411499 mrvax said: Quote: career passes. Why? Doesn't get open? Hands like Howard Cross? Or, he just doesn't get thrown to? He's been in the league for only 4 years and was behind Kyle Rudolph in Minny. I wouldn't expect Ellison to set the world on fire as a receiving TE but he's far from terrible. Think MArtelles Bennett in Dallas. Not to say Ellison will be a perennial 50-60 catch TE from here on out, but he could be. At the very least I think he will be a 30-40 catch guy who can block. Sorely needed. IF the Giants don't take a TE in this draft at least they can run two TEs now with Tye/Adams and Ellison.

Per Rotoworld last year, Ellison played 15 games with a total of 260 snaps. So obviously he was used almost exclusively as a blocker. From what I understand, he has doesn't have bad hands. Considered a safe target type but not a threat to break one.

Is we replaced The corpses of Jennings and Cruz with Marshall and Perkins. Also add Howard or Nojuku to that 11 package and you could be a top 5 offense.