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After spending many hours walking around the Arizona Biltmore Hotel and talking to many of the Giants' key figures, here are 10 post-owners meeting Giants thoughts, including takeaways on defensive tackle Johnathan Hankins' free agency, Ereck Flowers' status as left tackle, three young Giants at a key position who have to step up next season, and more. |
In the words of Alan Felix....
"She bought it!" - ( New Window )
My money is on Mac and Flowers
He was also playing his best football of the year in the final few weeks.
Why can't it be that the arrow is pointing up?
My money is on Mac and Flowers
Same. Its a process, first and foremost. When you take a kid at 20 years old he's going to need a lot of work regardless of position, IMO, but especially at OT. There's enough good things with Flowers' first two years to have optimism. After going 11-5 I'm not sure why more fans don't trust McAdoo and the process.
He was also playing his best football of the year in the final few weeks.
Why can't it be that the arrow is pointing up?
Agree. Seems to me that most here shit on Flowers, overrate Pugh, and are delusional about Richburg
I agree that it is unlikely Flowers will be removed. There does not seem to be anyone who will out play him.
My thoughts on Flowers are well-known, but this year is a make or break for Flowers along with the coaching staff. Sure we went 11-5, but without a herculean effort on the defensive part, we might have only won half of the games. For an offensive minded coach, the sputtering offense is on him. With the off-season additions, the expectations have to be a marked improvement. There isn't much room to be worse on the offensive side of the ball. If Flowers doesn't develop, this has to be laid at the feet of the coaching staff. What's an improvement from Flowers? 59 QB pressures and over 100 yards in penalties are attributed to him. These aren't some mysterious PFF grade. They are quantifiable stats. So again what's an improvement? No one is expecting a miraculous pro-bowl turnaround. Is only 60 yards in penalties and 30 QB pressures acceptable?
The honeymoon will be over with Ben if he is unable to develop Flowers. If the offense continues to underperform despite the recent additions, then Ben must be held accountable. If the Defense doesn't save Ben's backside again and we miss the playoffs with a mediocre record, Ben must be held accountable. For a rookie HC on a 3 year contract, he might not see the second contract if the owners don't see a quantifiable improvement in his area of expertise (offense).
In the words of Alan Felix.... "She bought it!" - ( New Window )
They haven't telegraphed their first rounders. Just because one or two writers or posters accurately predicted the first rounder some years doesn't mean it was telegraphed.
What's likely happening all these years is the Giants, like every team, is leaking different names to different reporters. Some get the right one. Some get the wrong one. Do you really think the Giants are actually telling a reporter who they will draft? They are leaking 10 different names and one of those names is the right one. Or they aren't leaking anything and reporters are simply making shit up. Perish the thought.
This. The Giants love edge rushers. They love using premium picks on edge rushers. That and DBs. They actually haven't used a premium pick on an edge rusher since taking JPP back in 2010 which really is hard to believe. The position is desperate for a young stud that can come in and not only provide depth in case of injury but actually play a lot of snaps. Wynn is a JAG. Owa is heading into a big year 3 after doing nothing his first 2 seasons. Okwara is a decent rusher but what is his long term growth?
The draft contains a few good edge rushers. Giants need one. I'd be shocked if they don't take one in rounds 1-2. Bet on it.
It makes so much sense. TE and OT will be there at 23. Giants will take the edge rusher and piss off a legion of fans that scream need need need. Edge rusher turns into Justin Tuck redux and the Giants win their 5th lombardi, 3rd at the expense of the Pats.
OT is the Giants weakest position. Not just left tackle, but right tackle as well. There are three OT--Robinson, Ramczyk, Bolles--projected to go right around the spot where the Giants are selecting. It's more likely that all three will be gone than all three will be available, but chances are at least one of them will still be in the green room when the Giants are on the clock.
p.s.-- And let's not forget that Pugh, Richburg, and Fluker are free agents at the end of the year.
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I Do you really think the Giants are actually telling a reporter who they will draft?
It's not that they tell reporters, but that they do little to disguise their intentions. Whether it was true or not, last year it appeared that either (or both) Conklin and Floyd were their targets and lo and behold Chicago and Tennessee jumped in front of them to make the picks. The year before it seemed everyone knew that Scherff and Flowers were their targets.
OT is the Giants weakest position. Not just left tackle, but right tackle as well. There are three OT--Robinson, Ramczyk, Bolles--projected to go right around the spot where the Giants are selecting. It's more likely that all three will be gone than all three will be available, but chances are at least one of them will still be in the green room when the Giants are on the clock.
p.s.-- And let's not forget that Pugh, Richburg, and Fluker are free agents at the end of the year.
I don't buy that. Not one reporter had us taking Apple. Other names were thrown around (that other CB, for instance) but no one had a clue about our actual pick.
If the Giants grabbed Robinson or Ramczyk in round one and D.King or J.Lewis in round two, that's already a successful draft in my book.
I don't buy that. Not one reporter had us taking Apple.
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I don't buy that. Not one reporter had us taking Apple.
Exactly. Nobody was focusing on the consolation prize, just the two they were targeting. Maybe things would've gone the Giants way if the Tunsil video didn't come out that morning.
Those weren't the only two names attached to us. We had Treadwell in for a visit, went to his pro day etc. The CB that Tampa Bay drafted was supposed to go to us too. Yet we skipped both. Bottom line, they were all guesses.
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or Blue Chipper that happens to drop
You mean like Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramczyk?
Milton - I really don't see the Giants taking Cam - and I don't see Ramczyk dropping to 23
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In comment 13411765 gidiefor said:
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or Blue Chipper that happens to drop
You mean like Cam Robinson or Ryan Ramczyk?
Milton - I really don't see the Giants taking Cam - and I don't see Ramczyk dropping to 23
If Raanan posts a name that makes sense, it doesn't mean it's a 'leak'. It's connecting dots. Anyone with a brain and free time can do this. The Giants need a tackle. Is it an organizational leak if someone speculates interest in Ramczyk?
Milton - his floor is Eric Flowers as a first year rookie
Ben's the Head Coach. It is Ben's system to develop players. From the linked article -
Certainly, the player owns some responsibility in his development. But everyone repeats the same thing, "Flowers has all the tools, he's young, he's strong, blah, blah, blah." Well with all the tools and Ben's system of developing players, if Flowers doesn't develop, then yes, the Head Coach whose system is to develop players should be held accountable.
2 seasons is too short to be sure a guy will not develop. Especially a guy with top end talent to be picked top 10 and is still only 22 like Flowers. He had some terrible plays and games last year, but also some decent play mixed in (he wasn't as terrible as some think our entire OL was - and these same people often think any OL from another team is better). His rookie season showed some promise, but he didn't build on that in year 2. He still can, and very well may improve a lot in year 3. It takes some guys longer to transition to the NFL, and LT isn't the easiest position - need time to learn blocking calls & schemes and how to work with the other OL.
I think the Giants plan is to go for continuity on the left side, while holding a competition for the right side spots. Flowers especially may be helped by playing next to the same guy, and a top LG like Pugh. Richburg had a down year too but I expect will be fine at C (maybe not a perennial pro-bowler, but solid C for 10 years hopefully). And I do think they add a pick to Jerry/Fluker/Hart right side battle, tho not sure we'll see Mangold. Contingency plan likely involves Pugh kicking out to LT, maybe Flowers to RT or even a G spot unless a complete disaster.
You might have said McAdoo was an offensive minded guy. All did McAdoo did was come in and coach the team to his best ability. And even if Ben himself said he worried about offense first who the hell cares how he wins games? Just win.
I won't even address the flowers crap you talked about.
You realize that shit you just quoted from the Giants is one part lip service one part hope, right? Just because the Giants release some line about Flowers being young and talented doesn't mean they take Ben out to the woodshed if Flowers doesn't reach his potential.
If Ben wins a lot of games he's going to coach here for a long time. Odds are the young talent will be just fine if they win.
Reese will get more heat if Flowers fails to develop. Not that he's in any danger but Flowers will have played for two HCs in his career and failed under both.
Just a really weird thing to say.