Thank you for the Heller details. I hadn't paid attention to how many people he had walked this Spring. I only really noticed that he wasn't giving up runs, and he was striking out his fair share of batters. Still happy with how well he's been doing. That Miller trade has been very good for the Yankees.
Gardner also has a MUCH more tradeable contract. Â
but Hicks is the perfect 4th OF and will get his at-bats. He's a great defender with legit CF skills and a RF arm. He's also a switch hitter. He'll automatically play against lefties giving Gardy or Ellsbury the day off. He could start a game a week in each OF spot and help keep everyone fresh. It's in the Yanks best interest to get Hicks involved because he has definite trade value if he's hitting. Also, Judge is a good defender, but it's hard to imagine a better defensive outfield than Gardner, Ellsbury and Hicks.
is now out of options. he is a free agent either after he calls up he stays the whole year or if he isnt called up he cant b oprioned to minors next year
[quote]It's looking more and more like Ref is one of those guys who seemed like a great prospect to us more because they had such a shitty farm system. He might be an okay utility guy at best[quote]
Good point. We had very little in the system 2-3 years ago...and he got overhyped as a result. He doesn't really even have a position. And his good hitting never continued to the MLB level, so where dies he really stand?
he was one of the best contact hitters in the minors. He has regressed because he wasn't given consistent reps and because he never locked down a defensive position, but he was a legitimate prospect.
is now out of options. he is a free agent either after he calls up he stays the whole year or if he isnt called up he cant b oprioned to minors next year
That isn't accurate. While he is out of options, he doesn't become a FA if he's removed from the 40 man. He would be DFA'ed which means he would be claimed by another team. You only become a FA if your parent teams releases you/non-tenders you. otherwise you need 6 years of service time.
when you consider that he had to walk on at College of Charleston. It's a cool story - the first day of practice, the coach hadn't told the players who tried out as walk-ons who had made the team yet. However, Gardner showed up to the first practice anyway. Asked what he thought he was doing, Gardner told the coach that he knew he was good enough to be on the team.
RE: Montgomery is lined up to be the 5th starter... Â
I won't disagree except Green is on the 40 man and Montgomery isn't. So if Montgomery comes up he stays for the year, while Green is already on the 40 man and has options. They are not going to risk losing Montgomery on waivers; if permanently added to the 40 man, who will be let go?
Think Montgomery is in SWB because of the better competition to keep him sharp, while Green is in Trenton only to stay stretched out...
RE: RE: Montgomery is lined up to be the 5th starter... Â
I won't disagree except Green is on the 40 man and Montgomery isn't. So if Montgomery comes up he stays for the year, while Green is already on the 40 man and has options. They are not going to risk losing Montgomery on waivers; if permanently added to the 40 man, who will be let go?
Think Montgomery is in SWB because of the better competition to keep him sharp, while Green is in Trenton only to stay stretched out...
They have a little bit of 40-man flexibility and Montgomery is going to come up sooner or later anyway. If he pitches well I bet the job is his.
when you consider that he had to walk on at College of Charleston. It's a cool story - the first day of practice, the coach hadn't told the players who tried out as walk-ons who had made the team yet. However, Gardner showed up to the first practice anyway. Asked what he thought he was doing, Gardner told the coach that he knew he was good enough to be on the team.
Never knew that, that's awesome. From that to winning a World Series with the Yankees, pretty good career
when you consider that he had to walk on at College of Charleston. It's a cool story - the first day of practice, the coach hadn't told the players who tried out as walk-ons who had made the team yet. However, Gardner showed up to the first practice anyway. Asked what he thought he was doing, Gardner told the coach that he knew he was good enough to be on the team.
I remember when he and Ellsbury were both prospects in the minors. Ellsbury got tons of hype, and Gardner was a total afterthought as a prospect, which I could never understand cause I always thought they were pretty much identical players. Ten years + later they have very similar lifetime WAR's. Gardner has made a hell of a career for himself.
RE: RE: RE: Montgomery is lined up to be the 5th starter... Â
I won't disagree except Green is on the 40 man and Montgomery isn't. So if Montgomery comes up he stays for the year, while Green is already on the 40 man and has options. They are not going to risk losing Montgomery on waivers; if permanently added to the 40 man, who will be let go?
Think Montgomery is in SWB because of the better competition to keep him sharp, while Green is in Trenton only to stay stretched out...
They have a little bit of 40-man flexibility and Montgomery is going to come up sooner or later anyway. If he pitches well I bet the job is his.
True and also, if he is added to the 40 man, he will then have options.
Just looked at the 40 man roster, you are right, there are at least a half dozen guys they could DFA'd to open a spot.
[quote]It's looking more and more like Ref is one of those guys who seemed like a great prospect to us more because they had such a shitty farm system. He might be an okay utility guy at best[quote]
Good point. We had very little in the system 2-3 years ago...and he got overhyped as a result. He doesn't really even have a position. And his good hitting never continued to the MLB level, so where dies he really stand?
Exactly. That's why it will be interesting to see how he does if he goes to some place like Tampa or Oakland and gets a real chance to see with consistent AB's if he can stick in the majors, or will he be one of many AAAA players..
just said Green and Montgomery will compete for the 5th spot next few weeks. No word of Mitchell.
As many said I think Green is the favorite since he's already on the 40 man and is a bit more seasoned, but the Yankees can easily make room for Montgomery if needed.
when you consider that he had to walk on at College of Charleston. It's a cool story - the first day of practice, the coach hadn't told the players who tried out as walk-ons who had made the team yet. However, Gardner showed up to the first practice anyway. Asked what he thought he was doing, Gardner told the coach that he knew he was good enough to be on the team.
I remember when he and Ellsbury were both prospects in the minors. Ellsbury got tons of hype, and Gardner was a total afterthought as a prospect, which I could never understand cause I always thought they were pretty much identical players. Ten years + later they have very similar lifetime WAR's. Gardner has made a hell of a career for himself.
If memory serves, Ellsbury hit well in the 2007 Series for the Red Sox, and has been overrated ever since
[quote]It's looking more and more like Ref is one of those guys who seemed like a great prospect to us more because they had such a shitty farm system. He might be an okay utility guy at best[quote]
Good point. We had very little in the system 2-3 years ago...and he got overhyped as a result. He doesn't really even have a position. And his good hitting never continued to the MLB level, so where dies he really stand?
Exactly. That's why it will be interesting to see how he does if he goes to some place like Tampa or Oakland and gets a real chance to see with consistent AB's if he can stick in the majors, or will he be one of many AAAA players..
Yea - I think Ref is a good contact hitter and has a decent eye but his lack of power, speed, and position makes it tough for him to be a every day starter. I think he could make stick around as a 2B or SS but his defense isn't exactly spectacular at those positions either.
Ells had a near-MVP 2011 and hit well in 2013... Â
As for Ref's tools, power isn't the end-all be-all, but he had 14 HRs in 2014, 11 combined in 2015. He's not Brendan Ryan. And he's not a speed merchant but given regular reps he's probably a double-digit steals guy. He is, or at least was on track to be, a legit offensive prospect. Whether he can rebound from a couple disappointing seasons with a change of scenery remains to be seen.
exactly - Ellsbury's fluke 2011 got him that massive deal Â
Aside from that season, he's been a decent player who was an excellent base thief (not anymore though). Which is pretty much the same thing you can say about Gardner, although he wasn't quite as prolific on the bases despite being faster in my opinion.
just said Green and Montgomery will compete for the 5th spot next few weeks. No word of Mitchell.
As many said I think Green is the favorite since he's already on the 40 man and is a bit more seasoned, but the Yankees can easily make room for Montgomery if needed.
No need to make room right now. April has a number of off-days which means they won't need the 5th starter for a few weeks. Better to help the 5th guy stay sharp by pitching every 4 days in the minors until a five man rotation is needed
I know you can't have HOFers at every BP position Â
who does not lack speed. However, anytime the subject of speed is brought up in a discussion, serves well to remember that it doesn't translate into wins on a baseball field. Yes, if he has everything else, let him be fast as well. But an outfielder with average speed who gets a good copy on the ball, is far better than a sprinter who breaks late or wrongly. Don Mattingly was an excellent base runner. Herb Washington was terrible. In baseball , we worry about 180. Can the runner get two bases on a normal sequence play? Ref is a good hitter with doubles power. It's too bad Girardi made up his mind about him in 50 ABs.
Torreyes is this season's JR Murphy. He will bat 150 until he gets released. Last season's batting was a jerk off. And keeping Kozma means their 9-hole will hit like like a pitcher for the first month.
It's obvious Jar Head pulled a Ralph Houk. He made up his mind before they reported to camp. I'm glad he and Rothchild are working in the last year of their contracts. But I am happy they went with Judge.
Cessa is also in the mix for the 5th starter spot.
He had the most success by far of all the young starters last year. Not sure why he hasn't been more of a favorite for the spot thus far. Good velocity, decent off speed stuff, decent command. Lots to like.
just said Green and Montgomery will compete for the 5th spot next few weeks. No word of Mitchell.
As many said I think Green is the favorite since he's already on the 40 man and is a bit more seasoned, but the Yankees can easily make room for Montgomery if needed.
No need to make room right now. April has a number of off-days which means they won't need the 5th starter for a few weeks. Better to help the 5th guy stay sharp by pitching every 4 days in the minors until a five man rotation is needed
Yea. They're going to use off days to skip the 5th SP the first couple times through the rotation. That will let them keep an 8th RP on also.
who does not lack speed. However, anytime the subject of speed is brought up in a discussion, serves well to remember that it doesn't translate into wins on a baseball field. Yes, if he has everything else, let him be fast as well. But an outfielder with average speed who gets a good copy on the ball, is far better than a sprinter who breaks late or wrongly. Don Mattingly was an excellent base runner. Herb Washington was terrible. In baseball , we worry about 180. Can the runner get two bases on a normal sequence play? Ref is a good hitter with doubles power. It's too bad Girardi made up his mind about him in 50 ABs.
Torreyes is this season's JR Murphy. He will bat 150 until he gets released. Last season's batting was a jerk off. And keeping Kozma means their 9-hole will hit like like a pitcher for the first month.
It's obvious Jar Head pulled a Ralph Houk. He made up his mind before they reported to camp. I'm glad he and Rothchild are working in the last year of their contracts. But I am happy they went with Judge.
Bernie was a bad base stealer and it led people to think very early in his career he would be a bust since he had a ton of speed when he was young. Miss the Bernie.
Cessa is also in the mix for the 5th starter spot.
He had the most success by far of all the young starters last year. Not sure why he hasn't been more of a favorite for the spot thus far. Good velocity, decent off speed stuff, decent command. Lots to like.
He went with as good a chance as anyone to win the 5th spot but didn't really shine when given the chance.
RE: I know you can't have HOFers at every BP position Â
but what is our facination with Warren and Sberve. They kind of stink. Even Clippard is blah
Clippard is far better than blah. Warren is valuable due to his versatility. Shreve is a JAG, but JAG lefty relievers have better job security than just about anyone
They are ready. I hope they get off to a solid start but if they don't, I won't panic. Hope for them to be solid for years and they will learn as they go. Judge has done a good job this spring making contact, cutting down on K's, batting .345. Also like Montgomery, he reminds me of a young Andy (and it took Andy a few years to hit his stride). Hope Gary Denbo keeps 'em coming.
Judge just had an RBI single. He and Bird had two nice ABs, working the count and fouling off pitches. Such a difference between them and Carter, who took a lumberjack swing and miss and then fouled out impotently on the second pitch.
what team is Rutherford starting out on this year? Â
This team isn't winning anything, so we don't have to be so reactionary when it comes to growing pains. I fear the Yankees giving up on Luis too early and make a Jake Arrieta-type dumb trade or sticking him in the bullpen.
so he stinks at two spots. Clippard has jumped the minow and shreve is a poor lefty. I think these guys will bring unhappiness to fans when they pitch. Can't wait to move on to better talent
so he stinks at two spots. Clippard has jumped the minow and shreve is a poor lefty. I think these guys will bring unhappiness to fans when they pitch. Can't wait to move on to better talent
Warren is a borderline starter and a valuable long reliever. He rarely gets hammered and is likely to hold the line if called upon. He's not pefect, but nobody expects him to be.
Ty Clippard was very effective as the 7th inning guy. He's good enough to close if necessary.
Shreve is a ? each time out and even batter to batter. I don't think he finishes the year with the Yanks.
Right now, he isn't an MLB starter. He needs to work out his issues in the minors, not up with the big league club.
Why is that? He has dominated the minors. He has to learn to pitch in the bigs. What good does sending him down do?
You guys need to show some damn patience for once. Christ. This team isn't winning the World Series. There is no better time to let Severino go out there and see what he can do. Worst case scenario is he ends up in the pen. If Severino is to figure things out as a starter, he has to face MLB bats.
Right now, he isn't an MLB starter. He needs to work out his issues in the minors, not up with the big league club.
Why is that? He has dominated the minors. He has to learn to pitch in the bigs. What good does sending him down do?
You guys need to show some damn patience for once. Christ. This team isn't winning the World Series. There is no better time to let Severino go out there and see what he can do. Worst case scenario is he ends up in the pen. If Severino is to figure things out as a starter, he has to face MLB bats.
He needs to go down because he needs to seriously improve his secondary pitches. He doesn't just need to get used to the majors. He needs on the job work done, which should be done in the minors.
Right now, he isn't an MLB starter. He needs to work out his issues in the minors, not up with the big league club.
Why is that? He has dominated the minors. He has to learn to pitch in the bigs. What good does sending him down do?
You guys need to show some damn patience for once. Christ. This team isn't winning the World Series. There is no better time to let Severino go out there and see what he can do. Worst case scenario is he ends up in the pen. If Severino is to figure things out as a starter, he has to face MLB bats.
He needs to go down because he needs to seriously improve his secondary pitches. He doesn't just need to get used to the majors. He needs on the job work done, which should be done in the minors.
And, it is more patient to send him down than force him to do on the job training on his pitches.
Right now, he isn't an MLB starter. He needs to work out his issues in the minors, not up with the big league club.
Why is that? He has dominated the minors. He has to learn to pitch in the bigs. What good does sending him down do?
You guys need to show some damn patience for once. Christ. This team isn't winning the World Series. There is no better time to let Severino go out there and see what he can do. Worst case scenario is he ends up in the pen. If Severino is to figure things out as a starter, he has to face MLB bats.
He needs to go down because he needs to seriously improve his secondary pitches. He doesn't just need to get used to the majors. He needs on the job work done, which should be done in the minors.
And, it is more patient to send him down than force him to do on the job training on his pitches.
Well the Yankees obviously disagree with you. And the fact that they've been almost overly patient recently with prospects, I don't think it's accurate to accuse them of "forcing" anything. They have sent him down several times to work on his secondary pitches and he dominates minor leaguers. It does absolutely no good to send him down again.
There is no problem with Sev pitching in NY this year because no Â
matter what they say, they are not going to be serious contenders this year, its a development year. If everything goes right and they contend it's gravy. The main point of this year is to solidfy Sanchez, Bird, Judge, Sev and possibly Montgomery as long term solutions. ANythin above that is gravy.
exactly. good post
Good point. We had very little in the system 2-3 years ago...and he got overhyped as a result. He doesn't really even have a position. And his good hitting never continued to the MLB level, so where dies he really stand?
That isn't accurate. While he is out of options, he doesn't become a FA if he's removed from the 40 man. He would be DFA'ed which means he would be claimed by another team. You only become a FA if your parent teams releases you/non-tenders you. otherwise you need 6 years of service time.
I won't disagree except Green is on the 40 man and Montgomery isn't. So if Montgomery comes up he stays for the year, while Green is already on the 40 man and has options. They are not going to risk losing Montgomery on waivers; if permanently added to the 40 man, who will be let go?
Think Montgomery is in SWB because of the better competition to keep him sharp, while Green is in Trenton only to stay stretched out...
Quote:
with Green as a backup plan.
I won't disagree except Green is on the 40 man and Montgomery isn't. So if Montgomery comes up he stays for the year, while Green is already on the 40 man and has options. They are not going to risk losing Montgomery on waivers; if permanently added to the 40 man, who will be let go?
Think Montgomery is in SWB because of the better competition to keep him sharp, while Green is in Trenton only to stay stretched out...
They have a little bit of 40-man flexibility and Montgomery is going to come up sooner or later anyway. If he pitches well I bet the job is his.
Never knew that, that's awesome. From that to winning a World Series with the Yankees, pretty good career
I remember when he and Ellsbury were both prospects in the minors. Ellsbury got tons of hype, and Gardner was a total afterthought as a prospect, which I could never understand cause I always thought they were pretty much identical players. Ten years + later they have very similar lifetime WAR's. Gardner has made a hell of a career for himself.
Quote:
In comment 13411789 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
with Green as a backup plan.
I won't disagree except Green is on the 40 man and Montgomery isn't. So if Montgomery comes up he stays for the year, while Green is already on the 40 man and has options. They are not going to risk losing Montgomery on waivers; if permanently added to the 40 man, who will be let go?
Think Montgomery is in SWB because of the better competition to keep him sharp, while Green is in Trenton only to stay stretched out...
They have a little bit of 40-man flexibility and Montgomery is going to come up sooner or later anyway. If he pitches well I bet the job is his.
True and also, if he is added to the 40 man, he will then have options.
Just looked at the 40 man roster, you are right, there are at least a half dozen guys they could DFA'd to open a spot.
Good point. We had very little in the system 2-3 years ago...and he got overhyped as a result. He doesn't really even have a position. And his good hitting never continued to the MLB level, so where dies he really stand?
Exactly. That's why it will be interesting to see how he does if he goes to some place like Tampa or Oakland and gets a real chance to see with consistent AB's if he can stick in the majors, or will he be one of many AAAA players..
As many said I think Green is the favorite since he's already on the 40 man and is a bit more seasoned, but the Yankees can easily make room for Montgomery if needed.
Quote:
when you consider that he had to walk on at College of Charleston. It's a cool story - the first day of practice, the coach hadn't told the players who tried out as walk-ons who had made the team yet. However, Gardner showed up to the first practice anyway. Asked what he thought he was doing, Gardner told the coach that he knew he was good enough to be on the team.
I remember when he and Ellsbury were both prospects in the minors. Ellsbury got tons of hype, and Gardner was a total afterthought as a prospect, which I could never understand cause I always thought they were pretty much identical players. Ten years + later they have very similar lifetime WAR's. Gardner has made a hell of a career for himself.
If memory serves, Ellsbury hit well in the 2007 Series for the Red Sox, and has been overrated ever since
Quote:
[quote]It's looking more and more like Ref is one of those guys who seemed like a great prospect to us more because they had such a shitty farm system. He might be an okay utility guy at best[quote]
Good point. We had very little in the system 2-3 years ago...and he got overhyped as a result. He doesn't really even have a position. And his good hitting never continued to the MLB level, so where dies he really stand?
Exactly. That's why it will be interesting to see how he does if he goes to some place like Tampa or Oakland and gets a real chance to see with consistent AB's if he can stick in the majors, or will he be one of many AAAA players..
Yea - I think Ref is a good contact hitter and has a decent eye but his lack of power, speed, and position makes it tough for him to be a every day starter. I think he could make stick around as a 2B or SS but his defense isn't exactly spectacular at those positions either.
As for Ref's tools, power isn't the end-all be-all, but he had 14 HRs in 2014, 11 combined in 2015. He's not Brendan Ryan. And he's not a speed merchant but given regular reps he's probably a double-digit steals guy. He is, or at least was on track to be, a legit offensive prospect. Whether he can rebound from a couple disappointing seasons with a change of scenery remains to be seen.
As many said I think Green is the favorite since he's already on the 40 man and is a bit more seasoned, but the Yankees can easily make room for Montgomery if needed.
Torreyes is this season's JR Murphy. He will bat 150 until he gets released. Last season's batting was a jerk off. And keeping Kozma means their 9-hole will hit like like a pitcher for the first month.
It's obvious Jar Head pulled a Ralph Houk. He made up his mind before they reported to camp. I'm glad he and Rothchild are working in the last year of their contracts. But I am happy they went with Judge.
I like ref and think he will go elsewhere and b more productive than most believe
He had the most success by far of all the young starters last year. Not sure why he hasn't been more of a favorite for the spot thus far. Good velocity, decent off speed stuff, decent command. Lots to like.
Quote:
just said Green and Montgomery will compete for the 5th spot next few weeks. No word of Mitchell.
As many said I think Green is the favorite since he's already on the 40 man and is a bit more seasoned, but the Yankees can easily make room for Montgomery if needed.
No need to make room right now. April has a number of off-days which means they won't need the 5th starter for a few weeks. Better to help the 5th guy stay sharp by pitching every 4 days in the minors until a five man rotation is needed
Yea. They're going to use off days to skip the 5th SP the first couple times through the rotation. That will let them keep an 8th RP on also.
Torreyes is this season's JR Murphy. He will bat 150 until he gets released. Last season's batting was a jerk off. And keeping Kozma means their 9-hole will hit like like a pitcher for the first month.
It's obvious Jar Head pulled a Ralph Houk. He made up his mind before they reported to camp. I'm glad he and Rothchild are working in the last year of their contracts. But I am happy they went with Judge.
Bernie was a bad base stealer and it led people to think very early in his career he would be a bust since he had a ton of speed when he was young. Miss the Bernie.
Quote:
Cessa is also in the mix for the 5th starter spot.
He had the most success by far of all the young starters last year. Not sure why he hasn't been more of a favorite for the spot thus far. Good velocity, decent off speed stuff, decent command. Lots to like.
He went with as good a chance as anyone to win the 5th spot but didn't really shine when given the chance.
Clippard is far better than blah. Warren is valuable due to his versatility. Shreve is a JAG, but JAG lefty relievers have better job security than just about anyone
Good for Judge.
Almost certainly Charleston.
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In my last inning here, Blake Rutherford dropped an absolute BOMB. Video later. #Yankees
Agree
Warren is a borderline starter and a valuable long reliever. He rarely gets hammered and is likely to hold the line if called upon. He's not pefect, but nobody expects him to be.
Ty Clippard was very effective as the 7th inning guy. He's good enough to close if necessary.
Shreve is a ? each time out and even batter to batter. I don't think he finishes the year with the Yanks.
Why is that? He has dominated the minors. He has to learn to pitch in the bigs. What good does sending him down do?
You guys need to show some damn patience for once. Christ. This team isn't winning the World Series. There is no better time to let Severino go out there and see what he can do. Worst case scenario is he ends up in the pen. If Severino is to figure things out as a starter, he has to face MLB bats.
Quote:
Right now, he isn't an MLB starter. He needs to work out his issues in the minors, not up with the big league club.
Why is that? He has dominated the minors. He has to learn to pitch in the bigs. What good does sending him down do?
You guys need to show some damn patience for once. Christ. This team isn't winning the World Series. There is no better time to let Severino go out there and see what he can do. Worst case scenario is he ends up in the pen. If Severino is to figure things out as a starter, he has to face MLB bats.
Quote:
In comment 13412485 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Right now, he isn't an MLB starter. He needs to work out his issues in the minors, not up with the big league club.
Why is that? He has dominated the minors. He has to learn to pitch in the bigs. What good does sending him down do?
You guys need to show some damn patience for once. Christ. This team isn't winning the World Series. There is no better time to let Severino go out there and see what he can do. Worst case scenario is he ends up in the pen. If Severino is to figure things out as a starter, he has to face MLB bats.
He needs to go down because he needs to seriously improve his secondary pitches. He doesn't just need to get used to the majors. He needs on the job work done, which should be done in the minors.
Quote:
In comment 13412488 BigBlueShock said:
Quote:
In comment 13412485 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Right now, he isn't an MLB starter. He needs to work out his issues in the minors, not up with the big league club.
Why is that? He has dominated the minors. He has to learn to pitch in the bigs. What good does sending him down do?
You guys need to show some damn patience for once. Christ. This team isn't winning the World Series. There is no better time to let Severino go out there and see what he can do. Worst case scenario is he ends up in the pen. If Severino is to figure things out as a starter, he has to face MLB bats.
He needs to go down because he needs to seriously improve his secondary pitches. He doesn't just need to get used to the majors. He needs on the job work done, which should be done in the minors.
And, it is more patient to send him down than force him to do on the job training on his pitches.
Well the Yankees obviously disagree with you. And the fact that they've been almost overly patient recently with prospects, I don't think it's accurate to accuse them of "forcing" anything. They have sent him down several times to work on his secondary pitches and he dominates minor leaguers. It does absolutely no good to send him down again.