NFT: Knicks Chat: Jayson Tatum

are the top 5 I'd want for the Knicks. Then Im not sure re Isaac, Markkanen and Fox, but I'd probably take them in that order. Monk is a wild card to me. He did not look good when I saw him, but I believe UK can really under use its talents. He's a very good athlete and a very good shooter.

is very talented but he showed effort issues when he played for a dysfunctional team in NC State. That's the main reason I worry about him coming to the Knicks.

I'm sure we will all be debating Smith vs Fox. Our likely choice.

actually be pretty furious if we took Fox or Ntilikina over Jackson or Tatum.

Looks like Swanigan is moving up boards, I suspected he was a 2nd round pipe dream. Still like Jeanne as a potential project pick round 2, wouldn't hate taking a flier on Josh Hart, Bacon, have never seen him play alert but Jonah Bolden SOUNDS intriguing to me. UCLA recruit who decided to go pro in Serbia. Putting up 13 and 7 with 1 block, 1 steal , 42% from 3, 6'10 considered "high IQ", Yurtseven is intriguing, Mason is older but performs.

mostly in the sense like Frank, I don't think he's a natural PG, but his insane athleticism disguises it. I think you guys know by now I'm not the biggest Fox fan but I don't think it's a given I take smith over fox. I think i take Tatum/Isaac/Jackson over those 2 PGs.

I think Bledsoe is the best comp for Smith but I think it should really be noted that Bledsoe's wingspan is nearly 6" longer than Smith's (6'2'). With PGs seemingly getting bigger, I think it's much easier to project Tatum/Isaac as being good NBA defenders than smith.

In comment 13411794 Keith said:

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that had the % of where the Knicks can pick. Do you have that updated?

Check out Tankathon- great website with all the percentages.
Tankathon - ( New Window )

In comment 13411688 Greg from LI said:

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He did his best work late when the game was on the line.

That was an incredible shot last night. Over one of the best defenders in the league too. Great call on Brogdon. Bucks had a an awesome draft and have one of the most promising teams in the league.

In comment 13411794 Keith said:

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that had the % of where the Knicks can pick. Do you have that updated?

Basketball reference projected draft order (linked on the right of their front page). Top chart is odds to land at each spot in the standings, bottom chart is odds to end up with each pick once they actually do the lottery.
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The Anti-Lavar Ball? “If he stays healthy, he will play basketball as a professional at some level,” Pekka Markkanen said. #Knicks

We haven’t seen this type of athleticism or shooting ability of a player 7-3,” Brown said. “Now, the improvement must come in body strength -- upper and lower. Meaning, can he hold the post-ups in that when he gets to the post? Because right now, his post-up game is below-average. He’s got to work on his post-up game.

“We all know that he can shoot the 3s. He’s got the midrange shot. He’s a good kid, he’s going to listen to [and] do everything that you want. But the body has got to get stronger. He’s got to get a better game with his back to the basket so they can play him at the 5. And they can run him in and post him up out of transition as well as out of set plays. Right now, that’s not part of the mix. All of this is there -- why? Athleticism. Quickness. The fact that he has an excellent touch. He plays the glass as good if not better than any big man ever over 7-foot -- the glass, he plays it perfectly. So the talent is there.

“It’s going to come down to work ethic, injuries, how he attacks the summer sessions. Because we all know that he has to improve defensively. It wouldn’t be such an issue if he was just playing a 4. But he has to play 5s. Then when they switch out up top, he’s with a point guard, a 2-guard, a small forward, that will all create. So all of a sudden you’re saying, well, gee whiz, how come he can’t [defend those positions]? Whoa, whoa, wait a second! How many guys do you know, that size, have ever been asked to play defensively outside of 15 feet against perimeter guys?

"He’s going to learn. You see he’s learning the hard way. But don’t you love his attitude? His attitude is fantastic. Most of the time he says all the right things. And I’m a big fan, mainly because he’s going to be big, and he’s going to be big for a long time.”
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for defense, not necessarily posting up. Expecting him to become an inside player on offense would be an atrocity with the way the league rewards 3 point shots.

Willy is still tremendously underlooked outside Knicks fans I believe. Knicks fans are that although he doesn't have KP's ceiling, he has shown that he can be a force at the 5 in a few years. Let Willy play inside and KP out.

absolutely LOVE KP so not looking to knock him but his defense seemingly really regressed this season. Not talking protecting the rim, talking about his man defense. A clear area he can improve.

Frankly I think a lot of areas KP needs to improve on will naturally improve as he adds strength. If he adds strength. His body type doesnt make it automatic.

Willy also needs to get a lot stronger.

w KP, but playing w/ Rose/Melo types is hurting his development.

In comment 13412227 Deej said:

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Frankly I think a lot of areas KP needs to improve on will naturally improve as he adds strength. If he adds strength. His body type doesnt make it automatic. Willy also needs to get a lot stronger.

Yup certainly. I don't know how to project how much mass/strength a player can add based on body type, but he's listed at 240, and if he gets to around 260-270 (Brook Lopez range) he can be a force.

In comment 13412256 Pep22 said:

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w KP, but playing w/ Rose/Melo types is hurting his development.

how?

averaged went up across the board, the things ge needs to work on is defense, so how did rose and melo hurt him?

he seemed more prone to biting on fakes in 2017 than he did in 2016. Not sure if that was a schematic thing or something but it seemed like that to me.

those types of players...selfish/lazy etc.

-hurt ball movement
-limit quality scoring opportunities
-indifference on defense creates chaos, bad team "shape" on defense
-having a less than ideal (me first, unprofessional) approach

these are all things that are not great when you are trying to develop and mold young/talented players

given all of the above, KP has done well to improve but dumping players of this caliber will only help unless replaced by more self-centered players w/ low work rates

so kp improves in almost every aspect and rose and melo hurt him?

defensively is on kp, he has to learn positioning and awareness that is not on rose and melo...

how many mofe open looks does kp get with rose and melo on the court rather than them off of it...

ao kp improved in spite of rose and melo? that is bullshit, i want them off the team bit they didnt stunt kps growth that is a load of crap

It's great to see him finishing the season strong after the Achilles slowed him down for a bit. We're still 4-5 years away from him ENTERING his prime.

ahead of schedule.

Eliminate the Me First style of play.

Eliminate the Defensive Indifference.

Eliminate the off the court headlines.

Basically, eliminate the circus that has plagued the franchise for almost 15 years now (see Marbury, Isiah, STAT, Melo, Rose, Jackson) and maybe we can get from out of this black cloud. Its not conducive to wimming or devloping players or attracting players.

In comment 13412321 bceagle05 said:

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ahead of schedule.

Remember all the "it will take him 3 years to develop" talk? That was physical. So you're probably right. He's fine on the development curve.

were mostly right about KP - the sky's the limit in terms of talent, but it's gonna take time for him to gain the necessary size and strength. I don't fault them for not anticipating the immediate impact - it was a pleasant surprise. I remember being blown away watching him excel in Summer League games.

@ScottiePippen thinks old boss @PhilJackson11 should be fired #Knicks

about that Kukoc game-winner.

In comment 13412342 bceagle05 said:

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were mostly right about KP - the sky's the limit in terms of talent, but it's gonna take time for him to gain the necessary size and strength. I don't fault them for not anticipating the immediate impact - it was a pleasant surprise. I remember being blown away watching him excel in Summer League games.

i read chris sheridans write up after knocks picked kp, basically said phil is going to get killed because kp has 2 years before he is even a rotational player..

here we are 2nd year and kp averaging 19 and 7 on good averages

Just our luck...though he probably would've hurt El Tanko

In comment 13412534 Anakim said:

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Just our luck...though he probably would've hurt El Tanko

Since all star he's averaging 17 points, 10.5 assists, 4.5 boards on 47% from the field and 43% from 3.

and Markkanen declare

He'd go in the top ten most years and this year he'll probably be in the mid to late teen.

He would've been a nice two-year stop gap at a reasonable price even if we do draft a PG this year, and it would prevent us from grossly overpaying Holiday, Teague or Hill this summer. As far as the tank is concerned, it's an interesting question: Would you rather have the fifth pick OR Rubio + the 8-10th pick?

In comment 13412940 bceagle05 said:

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He would've been a nice two-year stop gap at a reasonable price even if we do draft a PG this year, and it would prevent us from grossly overpaying Holiday, Teague or Hill this summer. As far as the tank is concerned, it's an interesting question: Would you rather have the fifth pick OR Rubio + the 8-10th pick?

I'd prefer Rubio + 8-10 if Fultz, Ball, Tatum and Jackson were off the board.

Unless you buy into the current Rubio as being the kind of player he'll be going forward, which I don't.

getting a little nervous about the Smith/Rose comparisons. There is a lot to like but I want someone who is going to help KP/Willy. I admittedly have seen less of Smith than the other PG's so my opinion isn't very strong.

Smith looks to set up his teammates. It's just that he didn't have many teammates who were worth a shit. Their second and third leading scorers were the relentlessly mediocre Terry Henderson and Napoleon Dynamite, I mean Mav Rowan.

On a bad team, playing at less than 100%, Smith averaged almost two more assists per game than Rose did on a powerhouse Memphis team that should have won a national championship.

Smith is taking the fall for NCSU's failures, and that's really not fair. It was such an awful situation that virtually no kid could have salvaged. Why doesn't anyone knock Fultz for Washington being terrible? And Washington had a much more talented roster, too.

In comment 13412950 DanMetroMan said:

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getting a little nervous about the Smith/Rose comparisons. There is a lot to like but I want someone who is going to help KP/Willy. I admittedly have seen less of Smith than the other PG's so my opinion isn't very strong.

I think the comps are more on athleticism and penetration ability. I've seen more highlights of Smith finding a teammate as part of a play (rather than as a desperate measure) than I've seen Rose do so all season.

My concern on Smith is principally health. Im warming up to him as the pick. All things being equal, I'd take a little bit less value at PG over an a SF (especially a big SF like Isaac who is potentially going to be a hybrid 3/4 rather than a 3).

is his wingspan. It's only 2 inches longer than Isaiah Thomas's. I don't think it's going to inhibit him from being a great player but it may limit his defensive potential/finishing.

Eric Bledsoe with a short wingspan I think describes Smith perfectly.

have nothing against Smith. I just despise Derrick Rose lol

In comment 13413101 giantsfan44ab said:

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is his wingspan. It's only 2 inches longer than Isaiah Thomas's. I don't think it's going to inhibit him from being a great player but it may limit his defensive potential/finishing. Eric Bledsoe with a short wingspan I think describes Smith perfectly.

And Chris Paul's wingspan is under 6'5", and he's a premier defensive 1.

In comment 13413104 Deej said:

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In comment 13413101 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: is his wingspan. It's only 2 inches longer than Isaiah Thomas's. I don't think it's going to inhibit him from being a great player but it may limit his defensive potential/finishing. Eric Bledsoe with a short wingspan I think describes Smith perfectly. And Chris Paul's wingspan is under 6'5", and he's a premier defensive 1.

Still has 2 inches on Smith's. I think CP3 is the exception for undersized players becoming good defenders. I guess Lowry too, but not sure what his wingspan is.

I'd still run to the table for Smith I think, but I don't think he's significantly better than Fox overall (offensively yes, defensively no).

a limited player in the current NBA. Sure, you can throw out a John Wall comparison, but even Wall was a much better outside shot at Kentucky - 32% on 3s vs Fox's 24%.

Players can improve their outside shot, but when you start out as low as Fox is how much more can you reasonably expect him to do?

is also a freak in terms of quickness/speed. Not saying Fox isn't a good athlete but Wall is on another level.

if we're fourth or fifth. I really can't believe we may climb that high in the rankings after starting 14-10 or whatever. Just a monumental - and much needed - collapse.

In comment 13413160 bceagle05 said:

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if we're fourth or fifth. I really can't believe we may climb that high in the rankings after starting 14-10 or whatever. Just a monumental - and much needed - collapse.

I'm content with either Smith, tatum or Isaac at this point. I keep convincing myself one over the other but in reality any of those 3 I'll be happy with. Ball/fultz/jackson is just icing at this point for me.

Does it worry you guys that Jackson will make this pick trying to find a player that fits the triangle? It's the last thing I want a team to be considering when drafting a player, just get the best player.

I think Smith would be a home run pick. If he gets to 5 or later, could be the steal of the draft. I just worry Phil passes on him or Fox because they aren't "triangle PGs", whatever that even means.

but in Phil's world, any good player can and should excel in the triangle. If you look at some of his draft picks and the guys he's signed or pursued in free agency (DeAndre Jordan), many don't exhibit the typical "triangle" traits.

In comment 13413216 TyreeHelmet said:

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Does it worry you guys that Jackson will make this pick trying to find a player that fits the triangle? It's the last thing I want a team to be considering when drafting a player, just get the best player. I think Smith would be a home run pick. If he gets to 5 or later, could be the steal of the draft. I just worry Phil passes on him or Fox because they aren't "triangle PGs", whatever that even means.

Was Jerian Grant a "triangle PG"?

I question Phil as an executive because he seems to approach his job as a coach rather than from a business/analytical perspective. I don't question his eye for talent, and I genuinely think the Knicks have a pretty good scouting department.

In comment 13413238 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13413216 TyreeHelmet said: Quote: Does it worry you guys that Jackson will make this pick trying to find a player that fits the triangle? It's the last thing I want a team to be considering when drafting a player, just get the best player. I think Smith would be a home run pick. If he gets to 5 or later, could be the steal of the draft. I just worry Phil passes on him or Fox because they aren't "triangle PGs", whatever that even means. Was Jerian Grant a "triangle PG"? I question Phil as an executive because he seems to approach his job as a coach rather than from a business/analytical perspective. I don't question his eye for talent, and I genuinely think the Knicks have a pretty good scouting department.

I honestly have no clue what a "triangle PG" is. Is it Ron Harper or Steve Kerr/ John Paxson? My concern is it coming into play at all.

Phil has attributed the KP pick to Clarence Gaines. Even still Phil deserves a ton of credit for it and I'm his biggest opponent. By all accounts, Grant was Phil's pick and against the scouting department. That worries me.

This offseason has massive implications for the Knicks future. It will be interesting to follow.

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While the Knicks were busy trying to make sense of Jackson’s offense this season they ignored the other end of the court. And ultimately that was the team’s biggest failure according to Rose. “I believe so,” Rose said on Friday. “But I’ve been saying that the entire year. We weren’t consistent defensively this year and it shows with our record.”

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