NFT: Knicks Chat: Jayson Tatum

That Tatum was in the 99th percentile in post up efficiency. "Small" ball with hm at the 4 and KP at the 5 would be a lot of fun.

could not agree with you more. We are very lucky to have a high pick in this draft. Tatum has the look of being a future stud.

down to

Fultz, Ball, Smith, Tatum, Jackson, Isaac as the guys I would be excited about. Next would be Markkanen, next would be Fox, then Monk (I guess). But those first 6 are my "wants".

Tatum, Jackson or even Isaac at the "small ball" four with KP at the five is definitely something to dream about, as is KP and any of the top PGs. It's fun to have first round picks. Nice to see KP finishing the season strong, too.

He did his best work late when the game was on the line.

in the open court and in the post against smaller players. I know the Knicks need a great point guard desperately, but Taytum looks like a future stud.

In comment 13411688 Greg from LI said:

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He did his best work late when the game was on the line.

You deserve props on Brogdon. You were very high on him. It was very odd how everyone was calling him a potential steal in the 2nd... if that's the case why did he go 2nd round! lol

In comment 13411691 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 13411688 Greg from LI said: Quote: He did his best work late when the game was on the line. You deserve props on Brogdon. You were very high on him. It was very odd how everyone was calling him a potential steal in the 2nd... if that's the case why did he go 2nd round! lol

I'm guessing part of it was due to his age

If you look at his combine numbers, he actually tested fairly well. He's strong as an ox and has a pretty good vertical. The only thing he lacks is a quick first step, but he's not slow either. Unless you watched him play game in and game out, I don't think people understood just how smart the guy is on the court. He knows his strengths and weaknesses and doesn't try to play beyond his abilities. He also has intangibles coming out of his ears - smart kind from an impressive family (mom's a college professor, dad's a lawyer, brothers are also lawyers), incredibly driven and hard working, humble guy who is a total team player.

I didn't know he'd be this good right away, but I knew he could play in the NBA.

Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Tatum will make an impact, with a few others like Smith Jr., Fox, Markkanen, Ntilikina, Isaac and Monk having lower floors but just as high ceilings.

In comment 13411730 Anakim said:

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Fultz, Ball, Jackson and Tatum will make an impact, with a few others like Smith Jr., Fox, Markkanen, Ntilikina, Isaac and Monk having lower floors but just as high ceilings.

Ntilikina doesn't seem to have "just as high" of a ceiling. He's not an outstanding athlete which limits your upside if you don't have some special secondary skills (Ball). Not saying he can't be good but his upside pretty clearly lags behind the top 3 PG's and likely behind Fox as well (who I'm not even high on).

so much of what I read about Frenchy sounds exactly like the comments made about D'Angelo Russell.

moves next season and the continued development of GF, brogdon and Maker I think they could very well be the 2nd team in the east. And brogdon helps them match up pretty damn well with Cleveland. Brogdon on Kyrie, middleton/GF on Lebron/love. Trade for a Whiteside or similar type player at the 5 and they can be a contender pretty damn soon.

In comment 13411735 Greg from LI said:

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so much of what I read about Frenchy sounds exactly like the comments made about D'Angelo Russell.

Haven't thought about that, I don't think he's that low level of an athlete but he's also not the caliber of a shooter of D-lo. Probably a better defensive/worse offensive player than Russell

Part of the issue may be a lack of physical development. Ntilikina won’t turn 19 until July, making him one of the youngest players available in this year’s draft, and, at only 170 pounds, he’s going to need to put on a lot of muscle in the NBA. His 6-foot-5 frame should allow him to gain weight as he gets older, and that will help him on both sides of the ball. Adding strength will allow him to power through opposing players and seal them off, and it’ll help with getting into his opponent’s dribble on defense and rerouting that player where Ntilikina wants him to go. He may always struggle somewhat with speed, but the extra weight will help him against bigger players at other positions. In time, he could become an excellent weapon in a switch-heavy defense.
There are a lot of things Ntilikina does right already. His length and athleticism should allow him to match up with multiple positions on defense, and his experience playing off the ball at Strasbourg will allow teams to utilize him in a lot of different lineups. He’s a smart player who knows how to get the most out of his physical abilities, and there have been plenty of players of his ilk who have carved out long NBA careers for themselves without an elite first step. Ntilikina checks most of the boxes that NBA teams are looking for in a point guard. The only one he’s missing — that burst — is the one that would make him a star.
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Fresh off of a season-best 15-point outing versus Aris in the Champions League, Ntilikina is one of the more steady guard prospects in this draft class as he defends multiple positions, can play on or off the ball, has a strong feel for the game and a mature professional approach, and has greatly improved as a shooter. Ntilikina may not be at the same level talent-wise as the top-tier American guards in the draft, but hes still a very intriguing long-term two-way prospect because of the aforementioned qualities. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Frank-Ntilikina-77051/ ©DraftExpress

"hope" is you aren't picking high every year because you are too good. No thanks on steady, solid. Shoot for a home run.

The player I want the most in this draft.

In comment 13411771 Carl in CT said:

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The player I want the most in this draft.

You want the PG perceived to have the lowest upside? Of the 5 "early PG's"?

That's why we will pick 5. But then again I said the same thing about the top 3 when we picked KP at 4.

I meant Tatum.

In comment 13411778 Carl in CT said:

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That's why we will pick 5. But then again I said the same thing about the top 3 when we picked KP at 4.

I'm genuinely confused. You MOST want the guy perceived to be the PG with the 5th highest upside?

In comment 13411781 Carl in CT said:

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I meant Tatum.

Ah okay. Makes sense. Sorry.

that had the % of where the Knicks can pick. Do you have that updated?

Isaac probably the better defensive upside due to versatility and rebounding and is probably better suited off the ball in catch and shoot situations, Tatum with the obvious 20+ ppg scoring potential. Don't think you can go wrong with either, don't think either player lags that far behind Jackson.

is unfair to Ntilikina but I haven't read a single article, expert etc that has him in the same class as the other guys. Every single source has him the 5th best PG. That alone makes him a guy I really wouldn't be excited over.

despite the thin frame is the clear # 5 guy and not far from the 1-4 group. Rare speed, uses lefty-ness in an effective way that remind me of Ginobili (just referring to finishing), great kid and competitor.

I am less high on Monk who reminds me of Monte Ellis, an effective scorer but somewhat of a tweener. And the notion of the triangle mitigating that isn't ideal because I think this draft pick will far outlast the dysfunctional Phil Jackson era.

and if he can overcome his knee injuries, that team is going to get a huge piece. He flashed the goods during what turned into a complete recovery season.

are the top 5 I'd want for the Knicks. Then Im not sure re Isaac, Markkanen and Fox, but I'd probably take them in that order. Monk is a wild card to me. He did not look good when I saw him, but I believe UK can really under use its talents. He's a very good athlete and a very good shooter.

is very talented but he showed effort issues when he played for a dysfunctional team in NC State. That's the main reason I worry about him coming to the Knicks.

I'm sure we will all be debating Smith vs Fox. Our likely choice.

actually be pretty furious if we took Fox or Ntilikina over Jackson or Tatum.

Looks like Swanigan is moving up boards, I suspected he was a 2nd round pipe dream. Still like Jeanne as a potential project pick round 2, wouldn't hate taking a flier on Josh Hart, Bacon, have never seen him play alert but Jonah Bolden SOUNDS intriguing to me. UCLA recruit who decided to go pro in Serbia. Putting up 13 and 7 with 1 block, 1 steal , 42% from 3, 6'10 considered "high IQ", Yurtseven is intriguing, Mason is older but performs.

mostly in the sense like Frank, I don't think he's a natural PG, but his insane athleticism disguises it. I think you guys know by now I'm not the biggest Fox fan but I don't think it's a given I take smith over fox. I think i take Tatum/Isaac/Jackson over those 2 PGs.

I think Bledsoe is the best comp for Smith but I think it should really be noted that Bledsoe's wingspan is nearly 6" longer than Smith's (6'2'). With PGs seemingly getting bigger, I think it's much easier to project Tatum/Isaac as being good NBA defenders than smith.

In comment 13411794 Keith said:

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that had the % of where the Knicks can pick. Do you have that updated?

Check out Tankathon- great website with all the percentages.
Tankathon - ( New Window )

In comment 13411688 Greg from LI said:

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He did his best work late when the game was on the line.

That was an incredible shot last night. Over one of the best defenders in the league too. Great call on Brogdon. Bucks had a an awesome draft and have one of the most promising teams in the league.

In comment 13411794 Keith said:

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that had the % of where the Knicks can pick. Do you have that updated?

Basketball reference projected draft order (linked on the right of their front page). Top chart is odds to land at each spot in the standings, bottom chart is odds to end up with each pick once they actually do the lottery.
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The Anti-Lavar Ball? “If he stays healthy, he will play basketball as a professional at some level,” Pekka Markkanen said. #Knicks

We haven’t seen this type of athleticism or shooting ability of a player 7-3,” Brown said. “Now, the improvement must come in body strength -- upper and lower. Meaning, can he hold the post-ups in that when he gets to the post? Because right now, his post-up game is below-average. He’s got to work on his post-up game.

“We all know that he can shoot the 3s. He’s got the midrange shot. He’s a good kid, he’s going to listen to [and] do everything that you want. But the body has got to get stronger. He’s got to get a better game with his back to the basket so they can play him at the 5. And they can run him in and post him up out of transition as well as out of set plays. Right now, that’s not part of the mix. All of this is there -- why? Athleticism. Quickness. The fact that he has an excellent touch. He plays the glass as good if not better than any big man ever over 7-foot -- the glass, he plays it perfectly. So the talent is there.

“It’s going to come down to work ethic, injuries, how he attacks the summer sessions. Because we all know that he has to improve defensively. It wouldn’t be such an issue if he was just playing a 4. But he has to play 5s. Then when they switch out up top, he’s with a point guard, a 2-guard, a small forward, that will all create. So all of a sudden you’re saying, well, gee whiz, how come he can’t [defend those positions]? Whoa, whoa, wait a second! How many guys do you know, that size, have ever been asked to play defensively outside of 15 feet against perimeter guys?

"He’s going to learn. You see he’s learning the hard way. But don’t you love his attitude? His attitude is fantastic. Most of the time he says all the right things. And I’m a big fan, mainly because he’s going to be big, and he’s going to be big for a long time.”
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for defense, not necessarily posting up. Expecting him to become an inside player on offense would be an atrocity with the way the league rewards 3 point shots.

Willy is still tremendously underlooked outside Knicks fans I believe. Knicks fans are that although he doesn't have KP's ceiling, he has shown that he can be a force at the 5 in a few years. Let Willy play inside and KP out.

absolutely LOVE KP so not looking to knock him but his defense seemingly really regressed this season. Not talking protecting the rim, talking about his man defense. A clear area he can improve.

Frankly I think a lot of areas KP needs to improve on will naturally improve as he adds strength. If he adds strength. His body type doesnt make it automatic.

Willy also needs to get a lot stronger.

w KP, but playing w/ Rose/Melo types is hurting his development.

In comment 13412227 Deej said:

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Frankly I think a lot of areas KP needs to improve on will naturally improve as he adds strength. If he adds strength. His body type doesnt make it automatic. Willy also needs to get a lot stronger.

Yup certainly. I don't know how to project how much mass/strength a player can add based on body type, but he's listed at 240, and if he gets to around 260-270 (Brook Lopez range) he can be a force.

In comment 13412256 Pep22 said:

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w KP, but playing w/ Rose/Melo types is hurting his development.

how?

averaged went up across the board, the things ge needs to work on is defense, so how did rose and melo hurt him?

he seemed more prone to biting on fakes in 2017 than he did in 2016. Not sure if that was a schematic thing or something but it seemed like that to me.

those types of players...selfish/lazy etc.

-hurt ball movement
-limit quality scoring opportunities
-indifference on defense creates chaos, bad team "shape" on defense
-having a less than ideal (me first, unprofessional) approach

these are all things that are not great when you are trying to develop and mold young/talented players

given all of the above, KP has done well to improve but dumping players of this caliber will only help unless replaced by more self-centered players w/ low work rates

so kp improves in almost every aspect and rose and melo hurt him?

defensively is on kp, he has to learn positioning and awareness that is not on rose and melo...

how many mofe open looks does kp get with rose and melo on the court rather than them off of it...

ao kp improved in spite of rose and melo? that is bullshit, i want them off the team bit they didnt stunt kps growth that is a load of crap

It's great to see him finishing the season strong after the Achilles slowed him down for a bit. We're still 4-5 years away from him ENTERING his prime.

ahead of schedule.

Eliminate the Me First style of play.

Eliminate the Defensive Indifference.

Eliminate the off the court headlines.

Basically, eliminate the circus that has plagued the franchise for almost 15 years now (see Marbury, Isiah, STAT, Melo, Rose, Jackson) and maybe we can get from out of this black cloud. Its not conducive to wimming or devloping players or attracting players.