NFT: Mets 3/30: Matz MRI negative. Wheeler makes rotation

for the last bullpen spot.

like we won't be seeing Matz for quite a while.

Wright and Nimmo also to the DL.

Kelly makes the team....

Matz always with pain. Bone spurs last year, nothing (apparently) this year.

What is going on?

had a PRP injection so "something" was found. Whether it's inflammation etc who knows? But clearly it wasn't a clean MRI.

He still has an inning limit. Do you just send him on a vacation at some point this summer?

I would rather have him around for the stretch run and the playoffs

In comment 13411743 debo_GIANTS said:

Quote:

He still has an inning limit. Do you just send him on a vacation at some point this summer? I would rather have him around for the stretch run and the playoffs

Sounds like they will either just let him go until he has to be shut down earlier and give him a few multi inning pen stints. More likely than not he'll be shut down in August.

will not be capable of making playoff starts. We can cross that off our wishlist. To start opening day and make playoff starts is a 180+ inning season. Not happening.

Already starting to feel like this is going to be a lost season for Matz.

In comment 13411786 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Already starting to feel like this is going to be a lost season for Matz.

At the very least we can all but assume we won't see him for 6 weeks minimum.

Edgin made the team. Is he really going to be pitching in high-leverage situations for us?

This is an EXTREMELY short sighted decision by the Mets. Opening Day is fun and all, but its all about the big picture.

Lugo was solid last year and I was intrigued to see what he would do this year. Wheeler should be in XST.

In comment 13411797 Metnut said:

Quote:

Edgin made the team. Is he really going to be pitching in high-leverage situations for us?

Out of options, would have been claimed thus...

right out of the gate.

Nothing but division opponents in the month of April and into the second week of May.

Really don't want to have to chase Washington all year.

and it was my thought all along. the timing just doesn't make sense to send him to extended ST, from what I understand of his status and EST.

Have him pitch until the innings are up and then shut him down.

then pray for rotation health.

a playoff rotation of Thor, deGrom, Harvey, Gsellman, Lugo, and maybe Matz is not bad, especially when you consider almost no team uses more than 4 starters in the playoffs and some teams just 3.

would've been claimed? Seems like better guys than him are being released.

I guess I havn't followed him much since the first few weeks of spring so maybe he's throwing harder and getting outs the past week.

In comment 13411798 debo_GIANTS said:

Quote:

This is an EXTREMELY short sighted decision by the Mets. Opening Day is fun and all, but its all about the big picture. Lugo was solid last year and I was intrigued to see what he would do this year. Wheeler should be in XST.

There is just no feasible way Wheeler can start the season with the Mets and still be in the rotation come playoff time. The Mets previously have mentioned 110 and 125 innings max. Even if you bump that to say... 150. 32 starts 5.5 innings per start is 176 innings. A measly 5 innings is 160 innings (and that's before the playoffs). It's just not realistic.

In comment 13411813 Metnut said:

Quote:

would've been claimed? Seems like better guys than him are being released. I guess I havn't followed him much since the first few weeks of spring so maybe he's throwing harder and getting outs the past week.

Hard to say but the Giants lost Will Smith to TJ (just as an example) and LOOGY's are passed around the league. He reportedly was up to 93. I'm not a big Edgin fan, I just expected this all along.

also be noted that Wheeler is a high pitch per inning SP. His command/swing and miss stuff = quite a few elevated pitch counts so it's not like he's efficient and will give you a bunch of 6 inning 95 pitch performances.

a 6 man rotation. they have the talent, and their SP will all benefit from it.

In comment 13411817 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13411798 debo_GIANTS said: Quote: This is an EXTREMELY short sighted decision by the Mets. Opening Day is fun and all, but its all about the big picture. Lugo was solid last year and I was intrigued to see what he would do this year. Wheeler should be in XST. There is just no feasible way Wheeler can start the season with the Mets and still be in the rotation come playoff time. The Mets previously have mentioned 110 and 125 innings max. Even if you bump that to say... 150. 32 starts 5.5 innings per start is 176 innings. A measly 5 innings is 160 innings (and that's before the playoffs). It's just not realistic.

agreed an in the playoffs anyway you know you will have Noah, Degrom, and Harvey (and you usually only have 3 or 4 man rotations in the playoffs). So you can live with Matz/Gsellman in the playoffs and just have Wheeler sit out.

I think its smart to let him start the year and pitch well. When he gets shut down he gets shut down. But there was no way no matter when he started the year he would be pitching in the playoffs for the mets anyway.

looked it up to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass. Zack Wheeler (2014) threw the most pitches per inning (17.8) of any SP who threw at least 180 innings, wasn't particularly close, Danks was #2 17.0. So let's even assume his command is "back" right away. 17.8 pitches per inning means on average he's throwing 107 pitches just to go 6 innings.

Best case would be a passing of the baton, so to speak.

When Wheeler gets close to his cap, hopefully Matz is finally ready to go. Might be wishful thinking but it'd be nice if it worked out that way.

In comment 13411848 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Best case would be a passing of the baton, so to speak. When Wheeler gets close to his cap, hopefully Matz is finally ready to go. Might be wishful thinking but it'd be nice if it worked out that way.

Agreed. This would be ideal. Still makes the Ynoa decision perplexing as you'd think they would want to horde those MLB available arms for reasons like this. Hard to "trust" Montero and beyond that you have career minor leaguers like Adam Wilk and a guy like Ricky Knapp who I personally like as a low end/Hefner type but I wouldn't bet on him either.

Give Wheeler his normal schedule to start the season. Then when he is near his shutdown limit, hopefully by that time Matz will be able to take off if he's finally healthy.

just can't stay healthy...

In comment 13411852 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13411848 arcarsenal said: Quote: Best case would be a passing of the baton, so to speak. When Wheeler gets close to his cap, hopefully Matz is finally ready to go. Might be wishful thinking but it'd be nice if it worked out that way. Agreed. This would be ideal. Still makes the Ynoa decision perplexing as you'd think they would want to horde those MLB available arms for reasons like this. Hard to "trust" Montero and beyond that you have career minor leaguers like Adam Wilk and a guy like Ricky Knapp who I personally like as a low end/Hefner type but I wouldn't bet on him either.

Yup. Didn't understand the Ynoa decision then, don't understand it now. I guess what's done is done... oh well.

done complaining about Ynoa just would be nice if we had kept him. Maybe Flexen (post knee surgery) emerges as an option but as I noted yesterday Collins himself mentioned the lack of AA-AAA SP options should we need to dip into the minors so it's not like I'm being a crazy pessimist.

and produce consistently. So far Syndergaard is the only one to com through and steadily progress without injury or any other setbacks.

1 benefit to starting with our 5 best in the rotation is that a hot start would dictate a lot more leniency to giving guys 15 day breaks every few months.

Bummed about Conforto not being able to play every day, hopefully that's short lived.

they could wind up ruining this kid if they are not careful

I don't think they're really in any danger of "ruining" Conforto.

There's just no easy solution here.

In comment 13411884 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

1 benefit to starting with our 5 best in the rotation is that a hot start would dictate a lot more leniency to giving guys 15 day breaks every few months. Bummed about Conforto not being able to play every day, hopefully that's short lived.

Shutting him down isn't really an option. Once you shut a SP down he then needs to build his arm back up which is still taxing to the arm. How many times have we ever seen a SP shut down and brought back later? I'm not sure I can recall even one?

and to preserve innings you don't necessarily need to shut a guy down for an extended period of time. 2 trips to the DL (1 per half of the season) is 20-30 innings.

In comment 13411900 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

and to preserve innings you don't necessarily need to shut a guy down for an extended period of time. 2 trips to the DL (1 per half of the season) is 20-30 innings.

El Duque wasn't coming off 2 missed seasons for an arm issue. El Duque was a rubber armed freak. Zack Wheeler is a guy who has soreness longer than regular SP (pre injury no less) It's just not a realistic path. Once he gets going he will go and then they will decide to shut him down.

get his innings in the majors.
So you pitch him until Matz is healthy or move Lugo up to finish the season.
If Matz comes back healthy in May, go to a 6 man rotation with Wheeler and still have Lugo in the wings.

Move Montero to the bullpen as a long man out.

and Flores with homers today.

they let the bullpen catcher hit for the 51's and he singled off DeGrom.

the 51's are down Conforto, Lagares and Nimmo (+ Kelly) so their starting OF including Matt Reynolds, Travis Taijeron and Victor Cruzado. Really bizarre how few veterans they brought in for AA-AAA.

In comment 13411915 DanMetroMan said:

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they let the bullpen catcher hit for the 51's and he singled off DeGrom.

Yesterday deGrom asked for an at-bat vs Thor in the intra-squad game. He struck him out on 3 pitches. Though deGrom bragged that he fouled one off.

In comment 13411923 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

the 51's are down Conforto, Lagares and Nimmo (+ Kelly) so their starting OF including Matt Reynolds, Travis Taijeron and Victor Cruzado. Really bizarre how few veterans they brought in for AA-AAA.

Where is Becerra starting? Bing?

In comment 13411813 Metnut said:

Quote:

would've been claimed? Seems like better guys than him are being released. I guess I havn't followed him much since the first few weeks of spring so maybe he's throwing harder and getting outs the past week.

100% would have been claimed, discussions.

has impressed enough to be considered for a bullpen role. Wonder if he would accept the long man spot of Lugo is needed as a starter.

In comment 13411943 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 13411923 DanMetroMan said: Quote: the 51's are down Conforto, Lagares and Nimmo (+ Kelly) so their starting OF including Matt Reynolds, Travis Taijeron and Victor Cruzado. Really bizarre how few veterans they brought in for AA-AAA. Where is Becerra starting? Bing?

He wasn't even playing the field this spring (shoulder) but yeah once he's ready Bing. He only posted a .734 OPS in St. Lucie so he wasn't even a candidate to skip.

In comment 13411959 Rory said:

Quote:

has impressed enough to be considered for a bullpen role. Wonder if he would accept the long man spot of Lugo is needed as a starter.

Some spanish speaking writer (it was tweeted in Spanish and I didn't even see it) apparently claimed Montero was told he made the team, the beat guys seem to think it's up in the air Lugo or Montero (the feeling was they would go with Montero if Wheeler made the rotation) but that was just a guess.

Gonzalez gave up the 3 homers in the third inning of the scrimmage. He's not skipping 3 levels so clearly they are rewarding him for hard work.

takes DeGrom yard, Smoker getting... well smoked.

He's not a guy whose bat suggests he should skip Binghamton and I know he was there last year for part of the year so it wouldn't be a total skip.

But if you accept the fact he's already 24, he's not likely ever going to hit even as a major league regular, but his defense and base stealing are major league tools, then I can see him moving up to Vegas simply for the AAA experience and then be ready for a Sep 1 call up as a PR and defensive replacement. He's the kind of guy who could be sneaky valuable on a playoff roster.

In comment 13411984 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

He's not a guy whose bat suggests he should skip Binghamton and I know he was there last year for part of the year so it wouldn't be a total skip. But if you accept the fact he's already 24, he's not likely ever going to hit even as a major league regular, but his defense and base stealing are major league tools, then I can see him moving up to Vegas simply for the AAA experience and then be ready for a Sep 1 call up as a PR and defensive replacement. He's the kind of guy who could be sneaky valuable on a playoff roster.

He said on instagram a few weeks ago he would be in Bing. They may have to reshuffle for a few weeks given the Conforto/Kelly/Nimmo/Lagares stuff but for now it looks like LV is going to be short handed. Might make sense to give Cecchini some OF reps but I doubt that's the case. Tebow time baby! lol

? I would assume so.

In comment 13412049 Steve L said:

Quote:

? I would assume so.

Yes

Josh Norris‏ @jnorris427 2m2 minutes ago
Vlad Jr, man. So impressive. Just pulverized a ball to dead center for a double. Turned around 96 like it was nothing.

or some FA vet want to sign up for a minor league contract as the 8th starter?

In comment 13412132 spike said:

Quote:

or some FA vet want to sign up for a minor league contract as the 8th starter?

Niese is supposedly dealing with a knee issue.

In comment 13412133 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13412132 spike said: Quote: or some FA vet want to sign up for a minor league contract as the 8th starter? Niese is supposedly dealing with a knee issue.

Niese already signed a minor league deal with the Yankees

In comment 13411841 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

looked it up to make sure I wasn't talking out of my ass. Zack Wheeler (2014) threw the most pitches per inning (17.8) of any SP who threw at least 180 innings, wasn't particularly close, Danks was #2 17.0. So let's even assume his command is "back" right away. 17.8 pitches per inning means on average he's throwing 107 pitches just to go 6 innings.

Wheeler and Matz should piggyback each other for 9 innings.

In comment 13411831 No Where Man said:

Quote:

a 6 man rotation. they have the talent, and their SP will all benefit from it.

Thats the way to go if they plan on a lengthy playoff run. The Mets have to budget their top starters innings and save some for October

#5 hitter on a WS contender 6 seasons after we dealt him, who saw that coming?

seem comfortable with a 6-man rotation and very few teams use one for any extended period of time.

And I don't think it's ever proven to help pitchers health and I doubt it helps with an innings limit.

and his golden beard!

confident Carlos Beltran will be the next Met in the HOF. After that we will have quite a drought lol

In comment 13412156 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

confident Carlos Beltran will be the next Met in the HOF. After that we will have quite a drought lol

Cespedes is next after he wins 2017 MVP and 2017 and 2018 world series MVP and puts up 6.0 WAR seasons 2017-2019.

In comment 13412179 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 13412156 DanMetroMan said: Quote: confident Carlos Beltran will be the next Met in the HOF. After that we will have quite a drought lol Cespedes is next after he wins 2017 MVP and 2017 and 2018 world series MVP and puts up 6.0 WAR seasons 2017-2019.

Your lips to God's ears!:)

Dom and Rosario CONFIRMED for Vegas

Betsy Helfand‏ @betsyhelfand 2m2 minutes ago
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Travis Taijeron, Victor Cruzado and Jayce Boyd in the OF. Matt Reynolds will play some LF, 3B, SS, 2B. Kevin Plawecki behind the plate.
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Betsy Helfand‏ @betsyhelfand 3m3 minutes ago
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Phillip Evans, who led the Eastern League in hitting last year, will also join 51s, as well as Gavin Cecchini, who will play second.
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Betsy Helfand‏ @betsyhelfand 15s15 seconds ago
Former Mets farmhand INF Josh Rodriguez rejoined the org and is expected to rejoin the team in Las Vegas.

In comment 13412190 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Betsy Helfand‏ @betsyhelfand 15s15 seconds ago Former Mets farmhand INF Josh Rodriguez rejoined the org and is expected to rejoin the team in Las Vegas.

32 year old career minor leaguer

In comment 13412156 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

confident Carlos Beltran will be the next Met in the HOF. After that we will have quite a drought lol

lol will he be wearing a Mets hat or an Astros hat in the Hall? Or NYY?

Dom
Cecchini
Boscan
Rosario
Taijeron
Reynolds
Wilk
Knapp
Cruzado
Josh Rodriguez
Plawecki
Carrillo
Gilmartin
Hand
Evans
Boyd

Bradford, 1 of Lugo or Montero

Glad his MRI is negative though. Mildly surprised Wheeler made the rotation. If Matz makes it back in May I'm guessing Wheeler would still be the odd man out (making it easier to control his innings somewhere).

Guess we'll see.

Who's spot Ty Kelly took? David Wright 60 day DL? Familia suspension?

In comment 13412351 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Who's spot Ty Kelly took? David Wright 60 day DL? Familia suspension?

There is no 60 day DL or suspended list until opening day. He won't be added until that time (taking Familia's spot)

Mets release Bryce Beeler (I thought he was a sleeper but couldn't get healthy) and Ty Williams

3b and Guillorme SS for the Rumble Ponies

to columbia

5th rounder @michaelpaezss joins @ColaFireflies, Carpio skipping a level? Ramos already in Columbia as well #Mets

@LasVegas51s rotation consists of Gilmartin, Knapp, Hand, Wilk and Montero or Lugo #Mets

In comment 13412357 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13412351 ZGiants98 said: Quote: Who's spot Ty Kelly took? David Wright 60 day DL? Familia suspension? There is no 60 day DL or suspended list until opening day. He won't be added until that time (taking Familia's spot) Mets release Bryce Beeler (I thought he was a sleeper but couldn't get healthy) and Ty Williams

Yeah apologies. I meant "taking" not took.

apologies necessary, wasn't trying to correct you

In comment 13412401 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

@LasVegas51s rotation consists of Gilmartin, Knapp, Hand, Wilk and Montero or Lugo #Mets

Slim pickings for backing up the ML rotation this season.

#WeHungry

- From Syndegaard's twitter

Add Wheels!

Cone
Tebow
Dimino
Paez
Winningham (repeating)

compared Lugo to Andrew Miller... yeah Andrew Miller arguably the most dominant reliever in baseball...

In comment 13412701 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

compared Lugo to Andrew Miller... yeah Andrew Miller arguably the most dominant reliever in baseball...

Clearly you are ignoring all the similarities
Both are lefty
Both were high draft picks
Both highly regarded prospects in the minors
Both traded for one of the best hitters in a generation
Both a failed starter - converted reliever
Both dominant closers
etc etc etc

In comment 13412722 Shecky said:

Quote:

In comment 13412701 DanMetroMan said: Quote: compared Lugo to Andrew Miller... yeah Andrew Miller arguably the most dominant reliever in baseball... Clearly you are ignoring all the similarities Both are lefty Both were high draft picks Both highly regarded prospects in the minors Both traded for one of the best hitters in a generation Both a failed starter - converted reliever Both dominant closers etc etc etc

Lol you nailed it.

His quote in case people think I made it up

"Frankly, I still think he's uniquely capable of being a valuable reliever, along the lines of what Andrew Miller is to the Indians"

HAAAAA

via the transitive property?

didn't see it myself but someone reminded me he also said Conforto was better than Harper (he later "apologized" for the comment).

arm fatigue does add to the anti-WBC argument.