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If the Giants do not draft a Tight End this year...

Klaatu : 3/31/2017 9:14 am
Would it really surprise you?

Sure, we've heard that the Giants love Howard (who doesn't?) and they're also enamored with Njoku, and in addition to meeting those two, they've also met with Butt and Hodges. How they feel about Engram or Leggett or anyone else is anybody's guess, but it would be foolish of Reese & Co. to dismiss any TE prospect prematurely. It's a talented TE class, the deepest in recent memory, and it's not like the Giants are stacked at the position.

However, the Giants just gave Rhett Ellison a nice contract, and even though his forte' is blocking, not receiving, I'm sure they expect him to make the most of the receiving opportunities that come his way, in addition to helping pave the way for our RBs and protecting Eli. It's not like they signed him to sit on the bench. If he's healthy, he's probably going to see a lot of playing time.

The Giants may also feel that with further development, Jerell Adams has what it takes to become a bona fide two-way TE. That's not going to happen if he's sitting on the bench, either.

The Giants seem to like Will Tye a lot more than I do, but I think that by signing Ellison they recognize his limitations, and his role could conceivably be reduced this year.

As for Matt LaCosse, who knows? He'll get another shot to prove himself this summer, but after two years of frustration he's a longshot to make the team, especially if the Giants do draft a TE - even a late-rounder or a UDFA - or even if they draft (or sign) a legitimate FB. Still, there must be a reason they've kept him around, so again, who knows?

Anyway...conventional wisdom says the Giants don't prioritize the position, at least where the draft is concerned. That's as may be (as the Brits say). It could be true, or it just might be that they haven't had many opportunities to draft a top-tier TE prospect in the Reese era. We'll see what happens next month, but honestly, would it surprise you if the Giants did not draft a TE? It wouldn't surprise me.
As you say...the draft is deep with TE's  
AnnapolisMike : 3/31/2017 9:17 am : link
If you can get a guy that improves your team at the right value. You do it.
K,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/31/2017 9:25 am : link
my question (coming from a point of ignorance) is this: Is Howard as good as Shockey (talent-wise) coming out? If yes, go for it..If not, get a TE later(or not) if you care to..
Now that Mac is HC and running his offense...  
Torrag : 3/31/2017 9:27 am : link
A TE that is a real threat and can carry LB's out of position to open up the crossing routes would be a good fit. If the right player is there when they're on the board I think they'll pull the trigger. I don't think they'll force anything. It's a really good draft for the position so I'd make the odds 50/50 they do it. Howard, Njoku, Everett, Shaheen, Butt, Engram, Leggett, Hodges, Sprinkle, Kittle and Saubert all ranked in the top five rounds. That's a lot of opportunities to fortify a position that let's face it can't exactly be described as a strength on our roster.
Yes and No....  
Reb8thVA : 3/31/2017 9:27 am : link
It would signal to me they have a lot of confidence in Adams as a receiving TE and are content with Ellison as the blocking TE and Tye and whoever else as backups.
RE: K,  
Jay on the Island : 3/31/2017 9:31 am : link
In comment 13412692 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
my question (coming from a point of ignorance) is this: Is Howard as good as Shockey (talent-wise) coming out? If yes, go for it..If not, get a TE later(or not) if you care to..

Agreed I think the Giants really like Jerrell Adams. I would prefer if they went for a guy like Shaheen in the 3rd round who could develop early in the year and be ready to make an impact during the stretch run like Kevin Boss did.
Draft is deep at TE  
Mike in NY : 3/31/2017 9:31 am : link
But as last year's draft indicated, the Giants are not going to take a position that us casual fans perceive as a need unless it matches up with the BPA on the board. If Howard and Njoku are off the board by 23, I could see us waiting until late Day 3 for someone like Jonnu Smith of Florida International. If we are looking at a TE only as a blocker I think they go for a UDFA to fill that role rather than spending a pick on one since there is no real blocking TE in this draft.
It wouldn't surprise me  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/31/2017 9:31 am : link
if they don't get a TE in the early rounds. Fans counting on a first round TE will likely be disappointed.

They probably will pick one at some point, but they aren't going to force the pick.

I'd go as far to wager the Giants don't view TE as the biggest need right now. I'd expect TE is further down the list than RB, CB depth, OL, and another pass rushing threat.
I think they like LaCosse  
ZogZerg : 3/31/2017 9:32 am : link
And like you said, they may like Adams and have Tye. I could see them going with one of the top 2 TEs, if they drop to them. If not, I could see them not drafting a TE, unless they really like someone else and think they could be an impact player.
the Giants are definitely going to draft a TE  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/31/2017 9:33 am : link
this year - and I would be disappointed if they didn't - it's foolish not to marry a strength of the draft, when it's a position of need, and especially as it's a position of need.

The Giants did not solve their problems at TE will Ellis - they solved an immediate need for adding a tough blocking player at the end and in the backfield who can also be an outlet. They still need a TE who can chip block on the edge and hurt the defense downfield on a seam route.


BTW Shaheen is growing on me  
Torrag : 3/31/2017 9:34 am : link
He's rising fast by all accounts. Mammoth physical freaks with natural receiving ability and mobility don't come around often. Certainly it will be an adjustment to the NFL competition level but he's ticked off all the boxes he can and done everything possible to maximize his draft value. I believe he's now a bona fide 2nd Rounder.
Surprise?  
jeff57 : 3/31/2017 9:35 am : link
No. But it certainly would disappoint.
RE: the Giants are definitely going to draft a TE  
Klaatu : 3/31/2017 9:41 am : link
In comment 13412712 gidiefor said:
Quote:
this year - and I would be disappointed if they didn't - it's foolish not to marry a strength of the draft, when it's a position of need, and especially as it's a position of need.

The Giants did not solve their problems at TE will Ellis - they solved an immediate need for adding a tough blocking player at the end and in the backfield who can also be an outlet. They still need a TE who can chip block on the edge and hurt the defense downfield on a seam route.



Suppose they feel that they have that guy already in Jerell Adams?
RE: the Giants are definitely going to draft a TE  
AcidTest : 3/31/2017 9:43 am : link
In comment 13412712 gidiefor said:
Quote:
this year - and I would be disappointed if they didn't - it's foolish not to marry a strength of the draft, when it's a position of need, and especially as it's a position of need.

The Giants did not solve their problems at TE will Ellis - they solved an immediate need for adding a tough blocking player at the end and in the backfield who can also be an outlet. They still need a TE who can chip block on the edge and hurt the defense downfield on a seam route.



Agreed. Ellison is a blocking TE, and outlet receiver. In that sense, he's a more complete version of TE, who is really just the latter.

People also forget that the Giants would have drafted Hunter Henry last year.

What I wouldn't be surprised with, is if the Giants wait until day three to draft a TE. The field is so deep at that position, that a good seam stretcher, even if he can't really block, could still be available in rounds four or five.
RE: RE: the Giants are definitely going to draft a TE  
AnnapolisMike : 3/31/2017 9:46 am : link
In comment 13412728 Klaatu said:
Quote:


Suppose they feel that they have that guy already in Jerell Adams?


If the guy is BPA on your board...you do it. Don't assume you have the position filled. It's not that long ago we all thought the Giants would be set for years at WR with Nicks and Cruz. How things can change in a hurry.
In a more balanced offense that most of you are hoping for  
Ivan15 : 3/31/2017 9:46 am : link
with the WRs on this team, there won't be enough passes to go around for a pass catching TE.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Giants DON'T draft a TE.
A lot of TEs in this draft not named Njoku  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/31/2017 9:57 am : link
That would fit.
RE: the Giants are definitely going to draft a TE  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/31/2017 9:58 am : link
In comment 13412712 gidiefor said:
Quote:
this year - and I would be disappointed if they didn't - it's foolish not to marry a strength of the draft, when it's a position of need, and especially as it's a position of need.

The Giants did not solve their problems at TE will Ellis - they solved an immediate need for adding a tough blocking player at the end and in the backfield who can also be an outlet. They still need a TE who can chip block on the edge and hurt the defense downfield on a seam route.



That would be nice, but given the Giants MO, I don't think they view that as a desperate need like BBI does.

If the value is there, sure, but I just don't buy the notion that they have a huge hard-on for Howard.
Considering what is normal for non-drafted FA TEs  
Bob in Newburgh : 3/31/2017 9:58 am : link
coming out of minor schools in terms of early year production, Will Tye is probably a much better prospect than the consensus on BBI will allow.

Although I believe we take one in this draft, I do not believe it is a have to situation.
'there won't be enough passes to go around for a pass catching TE'...  
Torrag : 3/31/2017 9:59 am : link
This comment makes no sense imo.
RE: RE: the Giants are definitely going to draft a TE  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/31/2017 10:05 am : link
In comment 13412734 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 13412712 gidiefor said:



People also forget that the Giants would have drafted Hunter Henry last year.



You're right, I forgot about that press conference last year where Reese listed all the players they "would have" drafted.
Wouldn't surprise me at all  
BillT : 3/31/2017 10:07 am : link
They signed a FA TE and have a drafted 2nd year player who looks like he has some talent and have a couple of other guys as well. I don't see TE as that big a need.
RE: RE: RE: the Giants are definitely going to draft a TE  
Klaatu : 3/31/2017 10:09 am : link
In comment 13412738 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
In comment 13412728 Klaatu said:


Quote:




Suppose they feel that they have that guy already in Jerell Adams?



If the guy is BPA on your board...you do it. Don't assume you have the position filled. It's not that long ago we all thought the Giants would be set for years at WR with Nicks and Cruz. How things can change in a hurry.


Sure, but you can say that about any position, even more so with the positions that the Giants usually prioritize come draft time: DE, CB, WR, and most recently OL.
Adams has the measurables right with OJ Howard and the others  
PatersonPlank : 3/31/2017 10:16 am : link
In fact he looks on paper better than most. He has had a year in our system which is a big advantage. The guy was picked to be a project, but a guy who had the skills, and he was coming on at the end of the season.

The solution is not always somewhere else. Just because a 6th round pick didn't start his first year doesn't mean he isn't turning into a player. The guy should be given. BBI has a bad habit of loving the pick at the time, but then after one year of coming on as a sub we dismiss him and want to redraft the position.
As you said the TE class is deep  
njm : 3/31/2017 10:23 am : link
Just because they don't draft on in the 1st rd. doesn't mean they won't pick one later. It would not shock me if they went elsewhere in the 1st, but would if they don't pick one somewhere else in the draft.
We NEED a TE  
Pete from Woodstock : 3/31/2017 10:25 am : link
that can come in and play NOW. Adams can develop behind the new guy! Eli only has a few good years left, get him another WEAPON to open things up now!
I'd legitimately be shocked  
AcesUp : 3/31/2017 10:28 am : link
With as loaded as this draft is at the position, odds are very high that a TE will be BPA at some point in the draft. I have high expecations for Adams as well, think his floor is a solid #2 blocking TE with the potential to blossom into a two way threat. However, neither he nor Ellison preclude us from adding to the position.

Also keep in mind that Ellison was signed to be more than a TE. I can see us keeping up to 4 on the active roster with Ellison serving dual roles as TE and Hback/FB.
...  
Toth029 : 3/31/2017 10:32 am : link
To me, they must.

Ellison is a nice veteran, who can block very well. But let's be honest, he is very limited as a receiver. He's not a Martellus Bennett coming in, but more like a younger Anthony Fasano.

Remember they did like Hunter Henry last year but SD snatched him up before the Giants could pick in the 2nd rd.

Assuming they draft one, the depth chart will be:

Starter TE/Hback Rhett Ellison
Two TE/HB sets w/ rookie or:
Battle between Adams, Lacosse and Tye. May keep 2 of 3 because Ellison can shift to FB in a pinch and Lacosse and Adams have the potential to develop into good blockers.
I believe we go CB at 23 and pick up  
gtt350 : 3/31/2017 10:37 am : link
a TE in 3rd or 4th rd. The TE from Arkansas would fit nicely
My money  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/31/2017 11:01 am : link
is on Kittle from Iowa in the later rounds, and we take the best DE on the board in the 1st. Just my opinion.
I think they will take  
Mike B from JC : 3/31/2017 11:02 am : link
One, just not a first or 2nd. Maybe 3rd or 4th Rd. Maybe hodges? To many other needs.
RE: My money  
Toth029 : 3/31/2017 11:07 am : link
In comment 13412892 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
is on Kittle from Iowa in the later rounds, and we take the best DE on the board in the 1st. Just my opinion.

What DE?

With Vernon, JPP and Okwara plus Wynn and Odigi, I don't see that being a huge priority. Of course, unless one is there they truly love. I see DT, CB, TE and OL as the biggest priorities.
TE  
stretch234 : 3/31/2017 11:09 am : link
I posted this on another thread. This offense is a WR based offense. The top 3 WR's are options 1-3 in terms of targets. RB's & TE's are similar.

Even when the Giants had Bennett, he had 89 targets in 16 games. TE's do not catch loads of passes in an offense where you have 3 capable WR's

People think getting a TE who can run means that somehow all the TE is going to run are deep seam patters.

The question is whether the play calling will change enough for the TE to stop running 3 yard curl patterns as their primary route.

The Giants TE's are open currently, but the routes generally do not threaten the LB.

To me, I think they get a TE on day 3. In this offense, why use the 23rd pick on a TE when you find similar 2-3 rounds later
Look  
Toth029 : 3/31/2017 11:19 am : link
How the Packers operated when they had a legitimate TE. Then look what they did with Richard Rodgers as the top TE. Then see how they did when Jared Cook played for them.

If there's a talent in play who can do those things, they'll get done. Giants have had Donnell and Tye as starters in McAdoo's offense. Only them and they, quite frankly, are not TE's who can scare defenses.
stretch  
Samiam : 3/31/2017 11:42 am : link
Have you considered that the Giants run the 3 WR offense because they don't have a decent TE? I think Eli would love to have a good reliable TEeho can catch a big 3rd down catch. I'm guessing that neither of the big name TEs will be there at 23 anyway but they'd like a pass catching TE who will be a matchup problem like Beckum was supposed to be before he got hurt. They can do that because they signed Ellison
yes, and the new free agent TE, but run blocking counts here:  
idiotsavant : 3/31/2017 11:58 am : link
Much of this may depend on how wedded Big Mac and Co. are, (or not) to how they ran the O play %ages and run types here -last year-

If the plan is to keep running large % chunks of 'pass as short runs' with straight drop backs or shotgun, (as opposed to investing in some outside zone running and play action as in Falcons ball), then they may yet have more work to do investing in the G-C-G combo, i.e. drafting them high.

To the TE discussion:

However, IF they, on the other hand, plan to run almost a predominance of outside zone type runs, (ones that develop quickly enough to relieve the current G-C-G combo of having to hold up well inside) then you are looking at potentially very different OT types and

(to the point of the thread) different TE types as well.

SO, if you plan to be running more outside zone, having at least TWO big type TE's that can block in line and also block on the move (sometimes in two TE sets), then Torrags' point may be well taken:

''BTW Shaheen is growing on me
Torrag : 9:34 am : link : reply

He's rising fast by all accounts. Mammoth physical freaks with natural receiving ability and mobility don't come around often. Certainly it will be an adjustment to the NFL competition level but he's ticked off all the boxes he can and done everything possible to maximize his draft value. I believe he's now a bona fide 2nd Rounder.''

(That said, regarding round 2 which torrag pointed to: DTs such as McDowell (rd 1? or does h drop?) or Adams (rd 2?) may indicate that they a) want to re-inforce a strength of the team towards dominance or b) feel that they have other improvements to the run blocking part of the O system interplay in the works. But what, we don't know.)

So, maybe if its Bolles in 1 and Shaheen as early as 2, think ''falcons ball outside zone runs and pay action''.

If its Lamp in 1 and Montravious Adams or another big DT in 2 think maybe, ''same game as last year, but with better parts stronger pocket play on both side''.

That said, could Pugh be a better outside zone blocking left tackle than Flowers? very possibly, and the FA TE may fit that bill as well, so, even in scenario #2, possibly you do still see additional types of run plays as opposed to last years selections.
Klaatu  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/31/2017 12:07 pm : link
Adams still requires a lot of patience - but if he has the potential you stick with it -- LaCosse and Tye are expendable - adding a strong prospect improves the corps - it does not represent an embarrassment of riches. The Giants TE corps is not a strength and McAdoos offense is predicated on strong TE play
methinks Will Tye will be both classic FB and the HB in  
idiotsavant : 3/31/2017 12:13 pm : link
situations that require some extra beef at HB/FB and 265+ lbs

and special teamer and reserve bench TE.
RE: RE: My money  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/31/2017 12:20 pm : link
In comment 13412905 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 13412892 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


is on Kittle from Iowa in the later rounds, and we take the best DE on the board in the 1st. Just my opinion.


What DE?

With Vernon, JPP and Okwara plus Wynn and Odigi, I don't see that being a huge priority. Of course, unless one is there they truly love. I see DT, CB, TE and OL as the biggest priorities.


Odi, Wynn, and Okwara combined for 1.5 sacks last year.
Meanwhile Vernon played 95% of defensive snaps which isn't a positive statistic. The could absolutely use a pass rusherin in a good draft for defensive linemen.
I would be some what surprised.  
Watson : 3/31/2017 12:28 pm : link
We can argue whether the pick at 23 should be Howard or Njoku should one be there, but imo it's hard to argue the TE group couldn't use additional competition. To the extent that the TE class is exceptionally deep, it would be surprising. However, I'm getting the impression the NYG don't really feel they need to draft a particular position but looking to improve the offense by drafting the best available players that can smash the 2 safeties back (or least I'm hoping that's how they're looking at this draft).

If they're able to draft players to improve the running game (addition of Ellison is a good start), then it's quite possible that they may view Adams as good enough. He's not particularly athletic (has trouble adjusting to ball & good routes) but he certainly has the straight line speed to attack the seam & split cover 2. If the ball is on target, he'll catch it.

Trade up an option  
floridagiantsfan : 3/31/2017 12:31 pm : link
Not in round 1 but in the 2nd. Say we picked an ot in round one, would you trade up 10 or so slots to get Engram in round 2. Give up our 4 to get him. Incredible speed for a TE and a willing if not accomplished blocker. Add him to the 3 wr on the team and we don't see any more cover 2.
That's the problem.....  
Doomster : 3/31/2017 12:42 pm : link
How long did we wait for the JPP of TE's to develop?

If the Giants think that Adams, Tye and Lacosse is the answer, then they are still walking around in circles....

You've seen the best of Tye, and it is not enough....Lacosse is a Reese's Reach....we just love TE's that aren't drafted....Adams just did not have enough opportunities last season, to really judge him, one way or the other.....

I expect a TE to be drafted....however, some guys may fall we don't expect, and anything can happen....
How do you "reach" on an undrafted free agent ?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/31/2017 12:54 pm : link
You can do better than this.
None of our TEs  
shelovesnycsports : 3/31/2017 12:58 pm : link
Would be drafted this year in this powerhouse TE class.
RE: That's the problem.....  
Klaatu : 3/31/2017 1:07 pm : link
In comment 13413099 Doomster said:
Quote:
How long did we wait for the JPP of TE's to develop?

If the Giants think that Adams, Tye and Lacosse is the answer, then they are still walking around in circles...


Why? Adams showed more as a rookie than Robinson did in three years. And as Sy'56 noted in his assessment, " Adams is a high effort player that can get up the seam in a blink and easily catches the ball with his hands. He doesn’t make a big impact as a blocker but he gets after his man hard. He bends well and he knows how to use his long arms. Adams has the upside to be an all around tight end if he can continue to add weight and refine his route running. There is an upside here that very few tight ends possess."

No one was saying anything like that about Adrien Robinson.

Quote:
You've seen the best of Tye, and it is not enough....Lacosse is a Reese's Reach....we just love TE's that aren't drafted....Adams just did not have enough opportunities last season, to really judge him, one way or the other...


Tye can be a serviceable #2 or #3, but only you, Doomster, would call a UDFA like LaCosse a "reach." As for loving those undrafted TEs, I would remind you that Jake Ballard has a ring.

Quote:
I expect a TE to be drafted....however, some guys may fall we don't expect, and anything can happen....


I've been all-in on Tyler Eifert, Jace Amaro, even Jeff Heuermann, Crockett Gillmore and Jesse James, and this year I'm all-in on Evan Engram. I want the Giants to draft a TE, but as I said in my OP, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't.
I think Reese would like to upgrade the TE  
Jersey55 : 3/31/2017 4:41 pm : link
position but he has other needs to fix and TE is not high on the list since there are other options at the position....
Giants already got their te ellison  
micky : 3/31/2017 5:51 pm : link
.
..  
Peppers : 4/1/2017 2:33 am : link
I like the Rhett Ellison signing a lot and I really like Adams potential but neither will prevent us from drafting another TE.
what if Ellison turns into Bavaro given the chance  
gtt350 : 4/1/2017 11:03 pm : link
he can catch and might be a huge asset if opportunity is given
there are excellent TEs all over this league  
Jersey55 : 4/2/2017 10:37 am : link
making big plays for their team, why is it that we never have one of those???
Adams is a terrific blocker and he's fast  
GeofromNJ : 4/2/2017 10:40 am : link
His issue is route running. He seems to lope along and he rounds off his cuts. He needs lots of work in this area, but I think he can improve, and if he does, he's the starting TE.
RE: Adams is a terrific blocker and he's fast  
Jersey55 : 4/2/2017 4:54 pm : link
In comment 13414512 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
His issue is route running. He seems to lope along and he rounds off his cuts. He needs lots of work in this area, but I think he can improve, and if he does, he's the starting TE.

the Giants need a playmaker at the TE position, other teams are finding them and we need one too...
What Gidie Said  
Bluesbreaker : 4/2/2017 5:30 pm : link
Seen enough of the three stooges . We have always had a decent TE and a few great ones .Perfect time to add a weapon
Our TE situation of late has mirrored the shitty O-line
that we have had . Deep TE class if for whatever crazy reason
Howard slides I would mind if they moved up a few slots .
A great TE will pay dividends now and post Eli .
Only on BBI could a guy that's an undrafted FA and not taking up a  
David in LA : 4/3/2017 3:56 pm : link
roster spot be qualified as a reach.
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