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Will this draft provide any first year starters?

George from PA : 4/1/2017 6:37 pm
The only 2 positions that I believe which that possible is TE and LBer but maybe RT. I am also assuming Hankins will be signed.

Sure, the OL needs to improve but I do not believe anyone will de-throne Flowers and start at LT from this draft. I am not even sure anyone will step into the RT position from this draft but the Giants are not exactly set :)


There certainly several candidates that can take over at TE and LBer. I would love for one of these stud TEs to join the WR crew and finally get a 3 down MLB to captain the defense.

I understand the draft is not about who starts right away. It's about improving the team and the Giants need depth pretty much everywhere. I want a 3rd DE to spell JPP and OV without giving up to much. But I am also aware that we tend to over value the rookies. The key to the draft is the fact that it is years of cost controlled talent.

We will hear about so many college players during this time and the draft will get so overblown. I see how we praise college RB who run through holds that will not be found in the pros. DEs running by OL who will be selling insurance next year.

But realistic expectations need to be kept.
I'd throw Safety in there too  
UConn4523 : 4/1/2017 6:55 pm : link
DB looks very deep and a day 1 or 2 pick can battle Thompson. I'm high on Thompson but I'll happily take a FS early if the value is there.
.  
Odell Porzingis Jr. : 4/1/2017 6:57 pm : link
Since you mention running backs, I'd take either Fournette or Cook if they fell, and wouldn't think twice about it.
I also feel confident that we will draft a RB that will plenty of snap  
George from PA : 4/1/2017 7:07 pm : link
Hopefully, we will find several that will help the team this year.
There are surprises in every draft  
SGMen : 4/1/2017 7:15 pm : link
I could care less what position we take and who can win a starting job or not right out of the gates. I care most that by mid-season they are playing well and are viable talents for the rest of the year and future.

We need to stay super healthy again AND we need for the youth to improve; chiefly, LT Flowers & RT Hart. We also need guys like TE Tye; slot WR Sharpe, CB Apple, FS Thompson; LB Goodson and a RB to really step up and lead.

I think we draft BPA and right now I have no clue whom that will or could be.
Starting doesn't mean what it used to  
tomjgiant : 4/1/2017 7:23 pm : link
Did ELI Apple start last year?
Playing snaps matters,contributing to the team matters.There are guys who don't start but make bigger contributions than some guys that do start.
Then significant impact instead of starting  
George from PA : 4/1/2017 7:28 pm : link
The better the team....The less opening exsist
RE: Starting doesn't mean what it used to  
robbieballs2003 : 4/1/2017 7:58 pm : link
In comment 13414271 tomjgiant said:
Quote:
Did ELI Apple start last year?
Playing snaps matters,contributing to the team matters.There are guys who don't start but make bigger contributions than some guys that do start.


I totally agree with starting vs. playing a lot but Apple is the wrong example. Yes, Apple started.
RE: There are surprises in every draft  
ThatLimerickGuy : 4/1/2017 8:27 pm : link
In comment 13414269 SGMen said:
Quote:
I could care less what position we take and who can win a starting job or not right out of the gates. I care most that by mid-season they are playing well and are viable talents for the rest of the year and future.

We need to stay super healthy again AND we need for the youth to improve; chiefly, LT Flowers & RT Hart. We also need guys like TE Tye; slot WR Sharpe, CB Apple, FS Thompson; LB Goodson and a RB to really step up and lead.

I think we draft BPA and right now I have no clue whom that will or could be.


I think this year's surprise is four-letter. If he gets past the Jets he may be available at 23
The 2 names that immediately come to mind are  
robbieballs2003 : 4/1/2017 8:51 pm : link
Cook and Webb. If it is Cook I don't think he gets passed the Eagles. If it is Webb this place might melt down but it certainly would be a surprise.
Wow....That would be a surprise.  
George from PA : 4/1/2017 8:52 pm : link
Then I suspect the concerns about Eli are true
Cook?  
George from PA : 4/1/2017 8:58 pm : link
That too would be a shocker
Webb had a workout with the Jets  
robbieballs2003 : 4/1/2017 9:06 pm : link
and he has been told by multiple teams he is a first round guy so ...
Any of the top OL could potentially step in and start...  
Milton : 4/1/2017 9:33 pm : link
...at either tackle position. Remember what Mara said about Flowers. They haven't given up on him "yet". Basically saying that his level of play has been unacceptable and there is only so much longer they will tolerate it. One solution is to move Pugh over to left tackle, but it's certainly possible that a rookie could also be the solution. Pugh was a first round pick who started as a rookie and Flowers was a first round pick who started as a rookie. So you know the Giants aren't adverse to it.

None of us are scouts, so we'll just have to wait and see what the plan is. Until then, no reason the believe that a rookie OL is any less likely to start than a rookie TE, LB, etc. And given the respective depth charts, I would guess that OL is probably the most likely position to yield a first year starter for the Giants.
This Draft Will Provide a Prennenial All Pro Player  
geelabee : 4/1/2017 9:46 pm : link
OJ Howard...hoping the Giants find a way to trade into the Top 10 and grab Howard...the trade will work out like the last time the traded up for another Alabama player and ended up with an All Pro...
Yes  
WillVAB : 4/1/2017 11:14 pm : link
OL, TE, LB, and RB could be starters. Not necessarily 1st round either.

DE, DT, S, and CB could contribute early.
McCaffrey may be the next  
Hot Rod in Florida : 4/1/2017 11:16 pm : link
Dave Meggett, but bigger. I think most of us would take a bigger version of Meggett. The guy can catch as good as the WRs and he is a returner with moves. That may not translate to starter, but is does make him an impact player. Impact player is what you should be looking for. Impact player is better than a starter.

While I agree that we could use improvement on the Offensive line, I haven't read that any of the 1st round O linemen would necessarily even start. Obviously, TE is a big need and Howard or Njoku would be welcome additions. We have no TEs like those on the roster, so TE is a high likelihood in the 1st round. Lb is also a big need. We have no one special on the roster. Someone like Reddick could be a likely candidate who could provide impact.

Edge rusher is also usually a strong consideration, but aside from Garrett, I don't see anyone who has that extra ummph that would ensure he would even be a starter on our team.

My guess is we take the best of TE, LB, or RB that falls to us or we settle for the best OL available:

TE - Howard/Njoku
LB - Foster/Reddick/Cunningham/Peppers(LB/S),Watt, McKinley
RB - Cook/McCaffrey
OL - Ramczyk/Bolles/Robinson
RE: McCaffrey may be the next  
Milton : 4/2/2017 4:25 am : link
In comment 13414381 Hot Rod in Florida said:
Quote:
While I agree that we could use improvement on the Offensive line, I haven't read that any of the 1st round O linemen would necessarily even start.
What do you mean you "haven't read that any of the 1st round O linemen would necessarily even start," I just wrote it earlier in this very same thread! Who the fuck am I? I don't know, who the fuck is anyone?

Every year the draftniks put together rankings in February and March and we buy into them thinking so and so is an early first round pick, so and so is mid-first rounder or a late first rounder or a second rounder, but then as we push closer to the actual draft day, the rankings slowly change and prospects like last year's Conklin and Floyd move from consensus late first round prospects to early first round prospects and suddenly it's okay to suggest that Conklin or Floyd might be the Giants pick in the ten spot. Next thing you know, the ten spot was too late for Floyd and Conklin. And nobody is surprised. But if you had suggested Conklin going in the top ten in the middle of March you would've been laughed at.

Robinson, Ramczyk, and Bolles are going to make their way up the draftnik's rankings over the next few weeks and everyone will be in agreement by draft day that the Giants are going to have trade up if they covet one of them.

And come to think of it, this is especially true of OL prospects. Guys like Flowers, Fluker, Pugh, Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher, Brandon Scherff, they all moved up about twenty spots from where they were projected the day after Super Bowl Sunday to where they were projected on the day before the draft. It will happen again this year.

p.s.-- And watch out for Antonio Garcia. He has been creeping up the charts and could push his way into the first round...maybe even Big Blue. Oy, I hope not, but if the Giants reach for an OL, he will be the one. Robinson, Ramczyk, and Bolles are not reaches.
I predict.... - ( New Window )
Over/Under  
Pepe LePugh : 4/2/2017 8:45 am : link
Game starts by rookies I would say is around 32. If draft goes something like (my preference) Reddick or Cunnningham in first, Dawkins, Dorian Johnson, or Taylor Moton in second, and RB in 3rd or 4th the number will be 40+. If we go QB in 1st or second as some think, it may be 20 or fewer starts.
I don't know if any rookie will start, but if they do...  
Klaatu : 4/2/2017 8:52 am : link
I hope it's because they earned their job with their play, and not because they have to replace an injured vet.
RE: This Draft Will Provide a Prennenial All Pro Player  
BillT : 4/2/2017 9:37 am : link
In comment 13414330 geelabee said:
Quote:
OJ Howard...hoping the Giants find a way to trade into the Top 10 and grab Howard...the trade will work out like the last time the traded up for another Alabama player and ended up with an All Pro...

If Howard is a top 10 player he won't be playing for the Giants.
A surprise starter could be at DT if they don't resign Hank  
Jim in Forest Hills : 4/2/2017 10:30 am : link
And they pick up someone like Mcdowell in rd 1, or Brantley/Wormley in rd 2.
The sign of a good team is the lack of noticeable holes  
The_Boss : 4/2/2017 10:40 am : link
This is a good team. There are 4 spots (5 if no Hankins) where I can see a first rounder starting.
Lamp at RG
One of the OT's at RT
OLB (Cunningham??)
TE (Njoku?)

4 potential spots out of 22 starters? Maybe 5? That's pretty good.
I don't think so......  
Doomster : 4/2/2017 11:34 am : link
Any of the top OL could potentially step in and start...
Milton : 4/1/2017 9:33 pm : link : reply
...at either tackle position. Remember what Mara said about Flowers. They haven't given up on him "yet". Basically saying that his level of play has been unacceptable and there is only so much longer they will tolerate it. One solution is to move Pugh over to left tackle, but it's certainly possible that a rookie could also be the solution. Pugh was a first round pick who started as a rookie and Flowers was a first round pick who started as a rookie. So you know the Giants aren't adverse to it.

I think the Giants will be leaning towards playmakers, in the early rounds, whether it is offense or defense, depends on who is highest on the board....

Pugh and Flowers only started because of necessity.....they hardly won the jobs over someone....I just can't see the Giants going OL in the early rounds.....the draft is a crapshoot.....the Giants have failed in finding talent for the OL, by drafting in the later rounds, thus the recent push for Pugh, Richburg, and Flowers.....at least they start, but have not reached the potential expected of them....finding players that start after the 3rd round, if far and few between.....but we have been long overdue...maybe this is the year....

Of course there will be.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/2/2017 1:22 pm : link
It happens almost every year.
RE: RE: There are surprises in every draft  
Rjanyg : 4/2/2017 2:08 pm : link
In comment 13414311 ThatLimerickGuy said:
Quote:
In comment 13414269 SGMen said:


Quote:


I could care less what position we take and who can win a starting job or not right out of the gates. I care most that by mid-season they are playing well and are viable talents for the rest of the year and future.

We need to stay super healthy again AND we need for the youth to improve; chiefly, LT Flowers & RT Hart. We also need guys like TE Tye; slot WR Sharpe, CB Apple, FS Thompson; LB Goodson and a RB to really step up and lead.

I think we draft BPA and right now I have no clue whom that will or could be.



I think this year's surprise is four-letter. If he gets past the Jets he may be available at 23


Lamp or Cook
RE: RE: McCaffrey may be the next  
Reb8thVA : 4/2/2017 8:56 pm : link
In comment 13414422 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13414381 Hot Rod in Florida said:


Quote:


While I agree that we could use improvement on the Offensive line, I haven't read that any of the 1st round O linemen would necessarily even start.

What do you mean you "haven't read that any of the 1st round O linemen would necessarily even start," I just wrote it earlier in this very same thread! Who the fuck am I? I don't know, who the fuck is anyone?

Every year the draftniks put together rankings in February and March and we buy into them thinking so and so is an early first round pick, so and so is mid-first rounder or a late first rounder or a second rounder, but then as we push closer to the actual draft day, the rankings slowly change and prospects like last year's Conklin and Floyd move from consensus late first round prospects to early first round prospects and suddenly it's okay to suggest that Conklin or Floyd might be the Giants pick in the ten spot. Next thing you know, the ten spot was too late for Floyd and Conklin. And nobody is surprised. But if you had suggested Conklin going in the top ten in the middle of March you would've been laughed at.

Robinson, Ramczyk, and Bolles are going to make their way up the draftnik's rankings over the next few weeks and everyone will be in agreement by draft day that the Giants are going to have trade up if they covet one of them.

And come to think of it, this is especially true of OL prospects. Guys like Flowers, Fluker, Pugh, Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher, Brandon Scherff, they all moved up about twenty spots from where they were projected the day after Super Bowl Sunday to where they were projected on the day before the draft. It will happen again this year.

p.s.-- And watch out for Antonio Garcia. He has been creeping up the charts and could push his way into the first round...maybe even Big Blue. Oy, I hope not, but if the Giants reach for an OL, he will be the one. Robinson, Ramczyk, and Bolles are not reaches. I predict.... - ( New Window )


Agree with you completely
RE: I don't think so......  
Milton : 4/3/2017 12:11 am : link
In comment 13414538 Doomster said:
Quote:
Pugh and Flowers only started because of necessity.....they hardly won the jobs over someone.
I don't remember the details, but the plan was for Pugh to compete with Diehl for the starting right tackle spot with the expectation that he would win it. And then Diehl got hurt so he won the job by default (or did someone else get hurt and so Diehl was moved, I forget the specifics, but Pugh was expected to win a starting job somewhere along the line, he just wasn't going to be handed the job). And it was a similar situation with Flowers, who we assume was going to be competing for (and ultimately winning) the starting job at right tackle (over Marshall Newhouse). When Beatty got hurt working out, the plan for Flowers to start at right tackle was aborted before it got off the ground and he was basically handed the left tackle job. At least that's the conventional wisdom, nobody knows for certain what the plan was before Beatty got hurt.

And it would be the same if the Giants drafted an OL in round one this year. He wouldn't be handed a starting job, he would have to compete for it, but the expectation would be that he would win it. Just as it was with Pugh and Flowers before injuries turned the competition into a win by default.

A prospect like Cam Robinson with three years experience as the starting left tackle at Alabama would give the Giants all sorts of options when it came to moving around the OL chess pieces around. He could compete at either OT spot depending on how things are working out with Flowers with the likelihood that he would be starting at one or the other by the time the dust had settled on training camp. The same could probably be said of Ramczyk or Bolles, although Robinson is my favorite among the three (he's two years younger than both of them but has two year more of major college experience than both of them).
What are we, changing history now?  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/3/2017 12:20 am : link
Pugh was exceptional as a rookie. He made the all-rookie team. It's his second year that he struggled.
RE: RE: I don't think so......  
adamg : 4/3/2017 1:19 am : link
In comment 13415174 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13414538 Doomster said:


Quote:


Pugh and Flowers only started because of necessity.....they hardly won the jobs over someone.

I don't remember the details, but the plan was for Pugh to compete with Diehl for the starting right tackle spot with the expectation that he would win it. And then Diehl got hurt so he won the job by default (or did someone else get hurt and so Diehl was moved, I forget the specifics, but Pugh was expected to win a starting job somewhere along the line, he just wasn't going to be handed the job). And it was a similar situation with Flowers, who we assume was going to be competing for (and ultimately winning) the starting job at right tackle (over Marshall Newhouse). When Beatty got hurt working out, the plan for Flowers to start at right tackle was aborted before it got off the ground and he was basically handed the left tackle job. At least that's the conventional wisdom, nobody knows for certain what the plan was before Beatty got hurt.

And it would be the same if the Giants drafted an OL in round one this year. He wouldn't be handed a starting job, he would have to compete for it, but the expectation would be that he would win it. Just as it was with Pugh and Flowers before injuries turned the competition into a win by default.

A prospect like Cam Robinson with three years experience as the starting left tackle at Alabama would give the Giants all sorts of options when it came to moving around the OL chess pieces around. He could compete at either OT spot depending on how things are working out with Flowers with the likelihood that he would be starting at one or the other by the time the dust had settled on training camp. The same could probably be said of Ramczyk or Bolles, although Robinson is my favorite among the three (he's two years younger than both of them but has two year more of major college experience than both of them).


I agree with Cam > everyone. RR makes me a little nervous with the hip thing. Robinson seems to have the highest floor of any OL by a lot.
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