Just thought I'd share for those maybe not on social media. In the link you can see DJ working on his RT footwork and punch...which looks pretty mean. He has a few hashtags also but one I enjoy is #beingcoachable. Personally I'm excited for this guy to be on our line, I think he will "prove it".
Instagram Link - (
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In comment 13416524 Rjanyg said:
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He will play well and Reesecwill be kicking himself for not locking him up. Fluker should have been signed to John Jerrys 3 year $10 MM deal and Jerry should have been signed to the 1 year deal.
Book it.
How can Reese lock him up when Fluker wanted a 1 year deal?
This board is so damn dense.
First of all, I am not dense. Is it 100% true that he only wanted a 1 year deal? People spin all the time. I bet if the numbers were right he would sign a multi year deal. ANy player would. The Giants were tight against the cap at the time. JPP wasn't signed yet. They re-sign Jerry right after to a 3 year deal which I think is crazy.
You are the one who is dense to think that players don't want more money and more security.
I'm sure the 1 year deal was mutual on both sides but based on his comments its pretty clear to me that the multi year offers were either lacking or worth pennies. 1 good year at RT (even Guard) gets him more in the first year of his next contract than he would in a cheap 3 year deal. Same with Bennett. Why sign a multi year offer when you entered free agency just having caught 17 passes for 140 yards? Why wouldn't you take a 1 year deal as a feature TE and then hit the open market?
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The real reason he became available was because Barksdale had established himself as the future in San Diego forcing Fluker to a position he wasn't perfect for. And to top it off, the Chargers would have had to pay Fluker "elite player money" - nearly 9 million dollars to exercise his 5th year option (the really real reason he became available). Paying that much for an average guard would have been financially foolish.
First, good post, Mavric. I trimmed your response to focus on the economics on the 5th year option. Looking at the economics, it is the truth regarding Fluker's availability.
Applying the principle that it is financially foolish to pay that much for an average guard, should also apply to our own. Despite being our best OL when healthy, Pugh does not distinguish himself from the middle of the pack of other guards. BBI likes to claim that he is a Top 10 guard, but whenever that statement is challenged, no one can provide actual rankings that backs up the statement. Perhaps, if he could actually play a 16 game season, he might crack the Top 10, but we all know his history.
It is financially foolish to guarantee the 1 year salary for average play. With the 5th year option and the CBA, it is imperative that players picked in the first round - especially those in the Top 10 - demonstrate above average competency to be considered for second contracts and hence building blocks for a franchise.
I see what you did there, pulled the old switcheroo. Almost had me...
The kid has the tools. Lets hope he puts it together. Has to be better than Hart or Outhouse.
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HomerJones45 said:
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He was drafted as a left tackle, failed, got moved to right tackle, failed there, was tried at guard and axed before he got Rivers killed.
Fluker was drafted as a left tackle? That will be news to Tom Telesco. When he made Fluker the eleventh selection in the 2013 draft, Telesco was immediately asked if he envisioned Fluker justifying the high pick by protecting Rivers's blind side. Telesco was absolutely clear that the Chargers envisioned Fluker as a right tackle. I think you are adding a layer of fiction to the disappointing story of his early pro career.
Whether Fluker will ever be a good NFL RT remains an open question. In any case, Fluker did not fail at left tackle, and it's questionable whether he even failed at right tackle. The Chargers thought he would be a better guard, so they moved him. Did Justin Pugh "fail" at right tackle?
Fluker did fail at RT and he was worse as RG.. Same with Pugh.. he wasn't successful RT.. otherwise Newhouse won't have replaced him.. they realized he couldn't make it and accepted the fact that he would be a better LG..
I do agree that this is a low risk signing but since he was the only OL signed.. its very troubling.. We can have one of the 2 stud TE, Marshall, OBJ and Shepard but if Eli is on his back in 2 seconds.. nothing will matter... The problem here isn't Fluker signing.. its great signing with very low risk.. its the fact that we didn't do anything else.. Not that signing one of the overpaid OL was the answer but we have done nothing and something major had to be done.. we have put in as much if not more resources into our OL than the cowboys and some are arguing that they are as good as 90's cowboys OL while we don't have a single person thats pro bowl caliber let alone all-pro..
Pugh was a good RT, he was far from the problem. When we switched him to guard it was out of necessity, and there was a plan in place that was fucked up by Beatty getting hurt. They made the switch and they didn't divert back.
if somehow he pans out it will be a major score -- if he doesn't - no harm no foul - can't really be much worse than the current set up
Agreed.
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He was drafted as a left tackle
Fluker was drafted as a left tackle? That will be news to Tom Telesco. When he made Fluker the eleventh selection in the 2013 draft, Telesco was immediately asked if he envisioned Fluker justifying the high pick by protecting Rivers's blind side. Telesco was absolutely clear that the Chargers envisioned Fluker as a right tackle. I think you are adding a layer of fiction to the disappointing story of his early pro career.
HomerJones45 doesn't really know things.
*3/5ths in contract years.
*Big year for Flowers.
*5 veterans - don't have to force anything in the draft. If a great OT or OG are too good to pass up, pull the trigger.
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In comment 13416566 mavric said:
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The real reason he became available was because Barksdale had established himself as the future in San Diego forcing Fluker to a position he wasn't perfect for. And to top it off, the Chargers would have had to pay Fluker "elite player money" - nearly 9 million dollars to exercise his 5th year option (the really real reason he became available). Paying that much for an average guard would have been financially foolish.
First, good post, Mavric. I trimmed your response to focus on the economics on the 5th year option. Looking at the economics, it is the truth regarding Fluker's availability.
Applying the principle that it is financially foolish to pay that much for an average guard, should also apply to our own. Despite being our best OL when healthy, Pugh does not distinguish himself from the middle of the pack of other guards. BBI likes to claim that he is a Top 10 guard, but whenever that statement is challenged, no one can provide actual rankings that backs up the statement. Perhaps, if he could actually play a 16 game season, he might crack the Top 10, but we all know his history.
It is financially foolish to guarantee the 1 year salary for average play. With the 5th year option and the CBA, it is imperative that players picked in the first round - especially those in the Top 10 - demonstrate above average competency to be considered for second contracts and hence building blocks for a franchise.
I see what you did there, pulled the old switcheroo. Almost had me...
No switcheroo. I'm not trying to deceive anyone. I'm just applying the same logical principal that it is financially foolish to pay the salary that the 5th year option commands for average guard play. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. Pleas provide corroborating evidence that Pugh is a Top 10 guard. Perhaps list all his pro-bowls. Or all the pro-bowls as an alternate. Or all the pro-bowls as a replacement to an alternate. I'll wait.
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He will play well and Reesecwill be kicking himself for not locking him up. Fluker should have been signed to John Jerrys 3 year $10 MM deal and Jerry should have been signed to the 1 year deal.
Book it.
I tend to agree with you. Despite all the negativity, Fluker had better numbers as a RT than after he was switched to RG. A little history: Fluker played above average as RT, but ended up being beat out by Joe Barksdale who is considered nearly as an "elite" tackle. This forced Fluker to the inside where he was less effective, but still average by NFL standards. Additionally, Fluker was discouraged playing on a team that was not only mediocre, but carried the ominous reputation as a perennial loser.
Fluker is healthy and in fact, was the healthiest lineman on the Charger's front line for the 4 years he was there missing only 6 games in his career. Of course, one of the issues with him was that he kept injuries to himself rather than admit them to the coaches. He was also accused of playing with too much heart and not enough brains, trying to do more than was asked of him and his coaches didn't train him well (so say the Chargers' fans anyway). So, he is somewhat of an enigma.
The real reason he became available was because Barksdale had established himself as the future in San Diego forcing Fluker to a position he wasn't perfect for. And to top it off, the Chargers would have had to pay Fluker "elite player money" - nearly 9 million dollars to exercise his 5th year option (the really real reason he became available). Paying that much for an average guard would have been financially foolish.
The Giants swooped in fairly quickly to get him. The other team after him at the time was (surprise, surprise) the Patriots.
I say give the guy a chance before picking your teeth in an Ivory Tower and proclaiming him to be a waste as if you knew more about him than what the Giants' coaches know. He will get excellent coaching and will be on a team that expects to win and expects to be in contention for a championship every year. Winning is addictive once you get a taste of it and the "light goes on" about what to do to make yourself better.
In the end, maybe he'll end up a bust or maybe he'll end up living up to the expectations of him when he was drafted. This signing has low risk / high reward potential. At least give the guy a decent chance to prove himself.
Great post. It was a low risk signing by Jerry. That's what was out there, and he seems to have the motivation to do well, and improve.
My problem with your post is you are automatically assuming the Giants are just simply going to give Pugh this 5th year and you are also assuming that if they do give him the 5th year it will be after a season in which he doesn't deserve it. You have a lot of hostility for a contract clause that we haven't even acted upon yet. Its as if you know Pugh's level of play more than the Giants do which is very interesting.
I have no idea what Pugh will be worth after 2017. Maybe he earns that 5th year option, maybe he doesn't. If he doesn't then we either offer a restructure at a lower rate or he walks, business is business.
My problem with your post is you are automatically assuming the Giants are just simply going to give Pugh this 5th year and you are also assuming that if they do give him the 5th year it will be after a season in which he doesn't deserve it. You have a lot of hostility for a contract clause that we haven't even acted upon yet. Its as if you know Pugh's level of play more than the Giants do which is very interesting.
I have no idea what Pugh will be worth after 2017. Maybe he earns that 5th year option, maybe he doesn't. If he doesn't then we either offer a restructure at a lower rate or he walks, business is business.
What are you talking about. This year is the 5th year option. He's playing on a 1 year option from his rookie contract that will pay him $8+ million for this year alone. The premise that you don't even understand that his is on the 5th year option NOW makes your response mute.
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you post the same thing in different forms on every OL thread. We get it, you don't like Pugh, or Flowers, or Fluker or Richburg...
My problem with your post is you are automatically assuming the Giants are just simply going to give Pugh this 5th year and you are also assuming that if they do give him the 5th year it will be after a season in which he doesn't deserve it. You have a lot of hostility for a contract clause that we haven't even acted upon yet. Its as if you know Pugh's level of play more than the Giants do which is very interesting.
I have no idea what Pugh will be worth after 2017. Maybe he earns that 5th year option, maybe he doesn't. If he doesn't then we either offer a restructure at a lower rate or he walks, business is business.
What are you talking about. This year is the 5th year option. He's playing on a 1 year option from his rookie contract that will pay him $8+ million for this year alone. The premise that you don't even understand that his is on the 5th year option NOW makes your response mute.
And by the way, I've never made any statement pro/con regarding Fluker or Richburg. Below is the link to Pugh's contract. It might help for you to understand if it comes from someone else and not just me.
Pugh's contract details - ( New Window )
That's the offense.
Flowers and Fluker are probably the worst pass blocking OTs in the NFL but it shouldn't matter: Eli should catch the snap and throw to a predetermined open receiver who should be winning their 1on1 matchup. With OBJ - Shep - Marshall we're almost there - now we need that TE that Eli KNOWS will be open, if he should be. Catch and fire. When you want to go deep do it with action.
As for the $8 million we are paying him now, so be it. If he plays 15 or 16 games it will likely be worth it as it means he's generally healthy and when he has been healthy he's been our best player on the OLine.
If he gets banged up then so be it.
Thanks for being a voice of sanity on this and so many other threads.
Agreed, however, we have Pugh and Richburg coming up for new contracts. This is gonna be a tricky situation, which is why signing Jerry to a 3 year deal is a head scratcher for me. Maybe a backup plan to Pugh if they can't extend or re-sign?
Amen Jon!
We appreciate you, Jon.
Its been 6 years since Eli has had a competent OL in front of him.. TC, Dhiel and Snee are no longer here to bail him out.. I get it that this year FA market was bare.. but at this point I think its fair to blame JR regardless of whats out there.. 6 years is ample time to fix OL.. Pats did it in 1 year..
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He was drafted as a left tackle, failed, got moved to right tackle, failed there, was tried at guard and axed before he got Rivers killed.
Fluker was drafted as a left tackle? That will be news to Tom Telesco. When he made Fluker the eleventh selection in the 2013 draft, Telesco was immediately asked if he envisioned Fluker justifying the high pick by protecting Rivers's blind side. Telesco was absolutely clear that the Chargers envisioned Fluker as a right tackle. I think you are adding a layer of fiction to the disappointing story of his early pro career.
Whether Fluker will ever be a good NFL RT remains an open question. In any case, Fluker did not fail at left tackle, and it's questionable whether he even failed at right tackle. The Chargers thought he would be a better guard, so they moved him. Did Justin Pugh "fail" at right tackle?
He's a low risk-no reward signing. He's another of Jerry's kids.
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Anyone would want him to play guard? He was drafted as a tackle, played well one year at least at tackle and has been simply awful as a guard. I keep hearing people say they'd like him there. Makes no sense to me.
he stunk at tackle which is why he got moved to guard in the first place.
His first year as RT was decent.
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When Reese doesn't add any FA OL, he's "ignoring" the position.. when he brings in what's out there, the guy he brought in sucks.
Its been 6 years since Eli has had a competent OL in front of him.. TC, Dhiel and Snee are no longer here to bail him out.. I get it that this year FA market was bare.. but at this point I think its fair to blame JR regardless of whats out there.. 6 years is ample time to fix OL.. Pats did it in 1 year..
If you're going to judge a team by the scale of what the Patriots do, you're never going to be satisfied with anything. Nobody does what they do. Many have tried and all of them have failed.
Ironically, after a strong first year on a cheap prove-it deal, Barksdale got real starter money and promptly reverted to replacement-level.
Ironically, after a strong first year on a cheap prove-it deal, Barksdale got real starter money and promptly reverted to replacement-level.
Thanks for clearing that up. Barksdale ended up being a solid RT and was rewarded with a long term contract. I still think the biggest problem with them keeping Fluker was that he was due 9 million dollars this season and that was just way too much green to payout for an average guard. Football is still a business to the guys in the front office. And money distribution is a fine art in trying to field a competitive team without cutting off your foot to gain an arm.
Fluker is a huge man and was believed to be great for the running game (kinda the idea the Giants had when they drafted Flowers - huge, powerful, hole making tackle). But in the NFL world now where everyone is running the West Coast Offense, keeping the QB clean has trumped hole making lineman. And finding huge, powerful lineman who can bulldoze a hole as well as dance like Fred Astaire are super rare - as are TE's who are great pass catchers and great blockers. You usually get one or the other skill set.
I can see the line being Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Fluker and the coaches telling Ellison to line up longside Flowers and Marshall lining up beside Fluker.
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In comment 13416676 arcarsenal said:
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When Reese doesn't add any FA OL, he's "ignoring" the position.. when he brings in what's out there, the guy he brought in sucks.
Its been 6 years since Eli has had a competent OL in front of him.. TC, Dhiel and Snee are no longer here to bail him out.. I get it that this year FA market was bare.. but at this point I think its fair to blame JR regardless of whats out there.. 6 years is ample time to fix OL.. Pats did it in 1 year..
If you're going to judge a team by the scale of what the Patriots do, you're never going to be satisfied with anything. Nobody does what they do. Many have tried and all of them have failed.
6 years is way too much even for non-patriots...
What would you have done? Drafted a lineman instead of OBJ? Instead of Collins? Apple?
How bout paying for FA linemen instead of OV, DRC, Snacks, or Jackrabbit? We could've spent the money there and then watch teams wrack up 45 pts a game against us.
We can't have the best of everything as the cap restrictions force ingenuity at building strong areas at the expense of allowing other areas to be weaker. The Giants already invested a lot of draft equity in the line making both Pugh and Flowers first rounders and Richburg a 2nd round pick. Adding more linemen from the front end of the draft has consequences in the other areas of need as we leave the Collins, OBJ's, etc., on the board for other teams to draft.
The fact is: We have the top defensive secondary in the NFL, bar none.....that according to the experts. We have defensive line that is easily one of the top 5 d-lines in the NFL if not closer to the number one spot. With Collins, we have the top safety in the land, bar none. And we have three amazing WR's, perhaps the best receiving corps in the NFL. Throw in the fact that this team is in the hands of a rookie head coach whose first season was a "disappointing" 11-5 (LOL). So I find it a little irritating to listen to people bitch and bitch about "the right thing to do" and how they would make the team a perennial Super Bowl team if they were in charge of building a team.
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Anyone would want him to play guard? He was drafted as a tackle, played well one year at least at tackle and has been simply awful as a guard. I keep hearing people say they'd like him there. Makes no sense to me.
he stunk at tackle which is why he got moved to guard in the first place.
If you take any stock in PFF he was actually decent at tackle his rookie year. He was MUCH MUCH worse as a guard.
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker
But I think Giants will also draft at least one and possibly two OL. I also don't think Pugh is anywhere close to a "lock" for a new deal. I think he has to stay healthy this year before that happens. I also think the chances of Richburg getting a longterm deal are 50% at best.
Flowers-Pugh-Richburg-Jerry-Fluker
But I think Giants will also draft at least one and possibly two OL. I also don't think Pugh is anywhere close to a "lock" for a new deal. I think he has to stay healthy this year before that happens. I also think the chances of Richburg getting a longterm deal are 50% at best.
I agree. For everyone who thinks the Giants haven't even attempted to do something with the O-line, consider this:
Erick Flowers - 22 yrs old; round 1 / pick 9
Justin Pugh - 25 yrs old; round 1 / pick 19
Weston Richburg - 25 yrs old; round 2 / pick 43
John Jerry - 30 yrs old; round 3 / pick 74 (Dolphins)
D.J. Fluker - 26 yrs old; round 1 / pick 11 (Chargers)
The bench:
Jon Halapio - 25 yrs old; round 6 / pick 179 (Patriots)
Adam Gettis - 28 yrs old; round 5 / pick 141 (Redskins)
Will Beatty - 32 yrs old; round 2 / pick 60
Michael Bowie - 25 yrs old; round: 7 / pick: 242 (Seahawks)
Martin Wallace - 26 yrs old; UDFA (Browns)
Khaled Holmes - 27 yrs old; round 4 / pick 141 (Colts)
Brett Jones - 25 yrs old; 16th overall pick in the CFL (Calgary Stampedes) - CFL's Most Outstanding Rookie Award (2013)
CFL's Most Outstanding Offensive Lineman Award (2014)
And there will be more linemen picked up in the draft and after the draft who will be brought in to compete for the backup spots on the roster. Maybe we'll get lucky and find a gem to add to the line.
As it is, the Giants have tried to improve an average line without breaking the bank and ignoring quality defensive players
Whoops! nice catch
Bobby Hart - 22 yrs old; round: 7 / pick: 226
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In comment 13416840 chuckydee9 said:
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In comment 13416676 arcarsenal said:
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When Reese doesn't add any FA OL, he's "ignoring" the position.. when he brings in what's out there, the guy he brought in sucks.
Its been 6 years since Eli has had a competent OL in front of him.. TC, Dhiel and Snee are no longer here to bail him out.. I get it that this year FA market was bare.. but at this point I think its fair to blame JR regardless of whats out there.. 6 years is ample time to fix OL.. Pats did it in 1 year..
If you're going to judge a team by the scale of what the Patriots do, you're never going to be satisfied with anything. Nobody does what they do. Many have tried and all of them have failed.
6 years is way too much even for non-patriots...
It's not like they didn't invest multiple high draft picks since 2013 trying to fix it.
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Hart played admirably and appears to have the right mindset and attitude, but he needs a ton of strength building in the weight room to be a solid pro, and hopefully at OG.
developing Bobby Hart is why we pay coaches big bucks.
All good. My point was he's not a prospect to rest on laurels with, imo.
The fact is: We have the top defensive secondary in the NFL, bar none.....that according to the experts. We have defensive line that is easily one of the top 5 d-lines in the NFL if not closer to the number one spot. With Collins, we have the top safety in the land, bar none. And we have three amazing WR's, perhaps the best receiving corps in the NFL. Throw in the fact that this team is in the hands of a rookie head coach whose first season was a "disappointing" 11-5 (LOL). So I find it a little irritating to listen to people bitch and bitch about "the right thing to do" and how they would make the team a perennial Super Bowl team if they were in charge of building a team.
Well said. It's so nostalgic and fun to see the Giants have a great D once again.