This is starting to get a bit ridiculous. Giants need to know what they have before the draft. If the Postons think Hankins' position gets stronger with each passing day, I think they are dead wrong.
this has dragged long enough. It's either sign with us or sign with someone else whatever he thinks is best for him but lets get an answer asap. It's only 3 weeks away till the draft. Cmon HANKINS!!!!
At this point if its another team its a 1 year deal
probably his only multi-year shot is the Giants. So its all about whether he want to do a prove me deal or take a multi-year deal that he feels is below what he is worth. The one year thing gets tricky to maximize because of the cap hit. Hard situation to read what he will do.
I think so too. The Giants are in a strong position.
There are some good dt's available in the draft, so the Giants can just wait. One good thing about the way they are handling this - they have a reputation with players in terms of being a good organization to play for. Things like this help that reputation. And they have nothing to lose.
are sick of this standoff. Not only are fans focused on the upcoming draft, so are all the teams' scouts, coaches, and front office. They are not pondering free agents as they've already made their moves and are giving full attention to the draft.
So c'mon Hank - shit or get off the pot. There is nothing to be gained by watching opportunity go by (or should I say "bye")
The Giants have their board set-up and ready to go.
It seems like his agent is now hoping for injuries of other players in order to raise Hanks stock? At best I would think if any team at this point were to make an offer it would be a 1 year deal.
It does not make sense and I would imagine the front office is getting a little tired of it let alone the fans.
So he has 3 more weeks before the landscape changes
Giants' offer is apparently not even the best he's received, so he may well end up elsewhere. A one year deal with another team allows him to hit FA again next year.
if he doesn't sign before the draft. If the Giants draft another DT they feel pretty high on, it's possible that they might even rescind the offer after the draft. He's playing a very risky game right now, or should I say his agent is.
not even the original contract proposal. You'll play for the vet minimum, which I would appreciate if you put up personally. :-)
I like him, wanted him to stay, but this is ridiculous. A watched phone never rings, and his won't be ringing. After all this time, the Giants are probably overpaying now. THey should pull the offer, or at least reduce it by 20%.
not even the original contract proposal. You'll play for the vet minimum, which I would appreciate if you put up personally. :-)
I like him, wanted him to stay, but this is ridiculous. A watched phone never rings, and his won't be ringing. After all this time, the Giants are probably overpaying now. THey should pull the offer, or at least reduce it by 20%.
We aren't the best offer on the table. We are probably the only multi-year offer. So you kind of lose your own leverage.
I think it makes sense just to let him ruin is value by taking it to the draft or after the draft. Pretty dumb of his agent to keep him on the market for this long while other teams cap space dry up. He will have to live with the crumbs that are left over.
If it is indeed still on the table. Let him walk or crawl back. We can use Bromley and Thomas and not be crippled. A draft pick would solidify it, especially a premium pick like Hankins was.
Funny how Hankins is the last piece from last years defense
to return. It goes to show you that winning is always second to the $. I get the short careers for pro football players but the kid probably has a chance to return to the team that drafted him and get paid probably 4 times the amount he made in his rookie contract yet remains unsigned.
It does seem like the agent is the problem but at some point and time the player has to speak up.
and it's an absolute joke that he's still holding out for that ridiculous contract demand.
He flashed greatness 2 years ago, then missed half a season, and then did not stand out while 3 elite DL drew the attention of offenses.
He is nothing special, which is why he's still sitting out there with his tail between his legs. Pride is the last thing standing in the way of him accepting the Giants offer.
As the draft nears/passes, he loses even more leverage. It's almost sad at this point.
He flashed greatness 2 years ago, then missed half a season, and then did not stand out while 3 elite DL drew the attention of offenses.
His job on the d-line this past year was exactly what he did. Eat-up double teams, so the rest of the line could attack at will. If you flipped him to Harrison's spot, and he didn't produce, then you could say he didn't stand out. He did his job.
He did not make the kind of plays that warrant a huge contract, especially given the $ spent on JPP/Vernon/Snacks already.
The rest of the NFL seems to agree. He's nothing special. He's a good run stuffer who hasn't built on the promise he showed 2 years ago ... probably why he's still available.
and go with Rosenhaus. He loses leverage with each passing day. A few of the teams that have needs at DT will fill that need in the draft which will only limit Hankins' suitors. He needs to make a decision now.
You have to wonder just what kind of offer the Giants made...
The reporters were told it was "a fair offer" but the only thing less is an unfair offer and the Giants certainly weren't going to say that. And whatever that so-called fair offer was, the Giants had to expect he would the strong possibility that he would be leaving for a better offer. Which--in my mind--tells me all I need to know about how important they think he is to the team.
Seems to be the case. His client should've signed when the other DTs began to sign.
In reality, I think they overrate Hank, he's not (yet) an $8M per season DT.
Not the same situation customer contractually but this reminds me
Of when Osi was unhappy and always held out. We don't know what he and his agent discussed. It he's a young sry solid player without a contract. That is an issue. It's like when selling a house or a car. You may think it has a higher value. Waiting this after the draft is pretty dangerous IMO.
he's almost forced to wait until some big name DT gets injured in camp. he has next to no leverage at this point ... and any of his "other suitors" are likely going to address their DT concern in this draft - rendering his leverage nonexistent
once Poe signed a 1 year deal I assumed Hankins would adjust his demands accordingly ... pretty baffling as to what his "strategy" is at this point.
I realize the Poston's are mainly to blame, but if you're Hankins you need to push this one way or another. They work for you big boy...if they can't get something done VERY soon, you need to move on from them and get someone that isn't a complete buffoon. DT becomes a HUGE draft need if this doesn't get done, which is fine as long as we know beforehand. We know the Poston's are buffoons, but this puts a sour taste in my mouth about Hankins as well. Let's get it done this week.
RE: The Giants have their board set-up and ready to go.
They also have 3 weeks(from tomorrow) until the draft starts..Plenty of time..Nothing to get antsy over, imv
I get that...but you also have to think about the time and effort Giants' scouts need to put into certain positions. If we don't have Hankins for 2017, DT becomes a very high priority and we need to be putting a ton of effort into DT scouting. If we do have him, sure, we still need to scout DT's, but it doesn't need to be nearly as big of a priority and we can focus more time, energy, and effort on other positions.
I'm sure the Giants already have full scouting reports on DT at this point.
rotate Bromley/run stuffing rookie, still have 1 of the best DL in football. Or sign Hank for about half of the 10 million he wants. I don't think Hank alters the 1st round consideration too much.
No argument with bad agents (though there are some good ones who help their clients). However, the bad ones really hurt the rest.
The union hasn't hurt the league- the league hurt itself. Look at the laughable joke of a commish they have. The owners don't even put up a pretend front on concerns about the Raiders moving to Las Vegas, leaving it to players to note the concerns that the town will devour young players.
Yet you want to blame the union? Here's a hint- you have NO idea what you are talking about.
Play well along side very good players. We have to remember that. Plus there is a lot of cap money invested in the DL. I would rather the Giants draft a DL and let Hankins walk
Play well along side very good players. We have to remember that. Plus there is a lot of cap money invested in the DL. I would rather the Giants draft a DL and let Hankins walk
AMEN. I feel like everyone's overrating him because he's "our guy" and are still hurt by the Joseph/Griffin/Cofield "losses". Hankins is 100% replaceable.
I'm sure the Giants already have full scouting reports on DT at this point.
rotate Bromley/run stuffing rookie, still have 1 of the best DL in football. Or sign Hank for about half of the 10 million he wants. I don't think Hank alters the 1st round consideration too much.
Are you? So by April 4th Giants are completely done scouting players? Take a vacation next 3 weeks? Cool.
RE: You have to wonder just what kind of offer the Giants made...
The reporters were told it was "a fair offer" but the only thing less is an unfair offer and the Giants certainly weren't going to say that. And whatever that so-called fair offer was, the Giants had to expect he would the strong possibility that he would be leaving for a better offer. Which--in my mind--tells me all I need to know about how important they think he is to the team.
I agree. With the way it's played (and still playing) out, I think it might be significantly less than we thought (i.e. not even in the 7 mill per range). That would make the demands his agent was making even more comical to the FOs around the league.
Terrell McClain's deal is worth 21 mill over 4 years (he's the 21st highest paid DT*). I bet that's very near the offer on the table for Hanks, maybe a mill more per.
numbers are per spotrac
This is the thought Ive had for the past week on this
The Poston's havent been relevant on the NFL landscape for a very long time. They have NO marquis clients. They have a bad reputation around the league. Even their website reeks of " look how important we were 20 years ago"
I believe they are really trying to get Hankins some super mega deal in a attempt to make themselves relevant again so they can attract more clients.
RE: This is the thought Ive had for the past week on this
The Poston's havent been relevant on the NFL landscape for a very long time. They have NO marquis clients. They have a bad reputation around the league. Even their website reeks of " look how important we were 20 years ago"
I believe they are really trying to get Hankins some super mega deal in a attempt to make themselves relevant again so they can attract more clients.
And they could be done in the NFL if it backfires.
Are there any decent free agent DTs still available ? Is Hankins the only available DT with credentials ? Also, I know there's of a Giants offer of $5-7 million per year for 3-4 year deal, is that just BBI conjecture ? Where do those numbers come from? Last, do the Vikings have CAP space to make Hankins a legitimate offer? Do they have a competent backup for Floyd ?
Play well along side very good players. We have to remember that. Plus there is a lot of cap money invested in the DL. I would rather the Giants draft a DL and let Hankins walk
AMEN. I feel like everyone's overrating him because he's "our guy" and are still hurt by the Joseph/Griffin/Cofield "losses". Hankins is 100% replaceable.
You just agreed a few posts back that he did his job. Now he did not play well. Which is it?
He did what he was supposed to from that position. He is there to do the non-glamorous work and eat up blockers for others to run wild. I think it was mission accomplished.
At this point Hankins and his 'people' may as well wait it out as long as possible. They have nothing to lose. I'm resigned to the fact this will drag out until very near the Draft.
We are bidding against ourselves. I give it a few more days then say it's pulled until after the draft. At that point, we will revisit.
Can you provide proof that we are bidding against ourselves? This is the narrative on BBI every single time the Giants sign a player and a poster thinks it was for too much. The Giants were bidding against themselves! Why pay so much!
Hasn't it been stated by one of the clue'd in guys that the Giants don't even have the highest offer on the table? Isn't that the complete opposite of what you say?
like DeMarcus Walker, but he's admittedly not the same type of player as Hankins. 4-3 DE in run downs, and a 3T DT on passing downs.
Maybe Rashaad Coward in the fourth? The Giants were apparently checking him out. Just a few weeks left.
I've seen DeMarcus Walker go in mocks and see him on draft boards as a 3rd rounder. When the real draft comes around, I don't even think he'll make it to #55 overall, and there is a good chance he could even go in the first round, IMO. People may scoff at that but few players made more impact plays than Walker did last year on the defense.
we really don't know what the Giants have said to Hankins
I see no reason to "pull the offer" or reduce the offer each day until he signs.
Hankins is likely getting bad advice and has to be extremely frustrated. Making that situation worse will only increase the odds of signing a disgruntled player.
This isn't a car purchase. We want Hankins to come here and be a motivated and effective player.
doesn't feel like he's crawling back to the Giants having accomplished nothing by his holdout, and giving him a non-specific ultimatum that amounts to "take the offer very soon or it will be withdrawn."
Jerry clearly wants Hankins back to have shown this much patience. Well, Jerry or the owners.
We believe that the D-Line wouldn't miss Hankins, but we don't know it since we didn't see the line play without him. Hankins took 69 percent of the snaps. It's just possible that Harrison would not have elevated his game to 1st team All Pro without Hankins.
Hankins is the one flapping in the wind right now. It feels like the agent has back himself into corner. The only way out for the agent is to produce a better offer, which is probably not forthcoming.
Robert Thomas is only one year older and weighs five more pounds..
doesn't feel like he's crawling back to the Giants having accomplished nothing by his holdout, and giving him a non-specific ultimatum that amounts to "take the offer very soon or it will be withdrawn."
Jerry clearly wants Hankins back to have shown this much patience. Well, Jerry or the owners.
We believe that the D-Line wouldn't miss Hankins, but we don't know it since we didn't see the line play without him. Hankins took 69 percent of the snaps. It's just possible that Harrison would not have elevated his game to 1st team All Pro without Hankins.
It's possible.
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks?
I think the G-Men can go slightly higher, no one is beating down his door to sign him it appears.
Let's deal in some good faith, even if his agent
is a douche.
I am not saying the G-Men aren't, just try and get it done
before the draft. We don't know what a Robert Thomas is,
and I don't have a lot of trust in Bromley myself.
RE: RE: How about sweetening the offer just a bit, so Hankins
doesn't feel like he's crawling back to the Giants having accomplished nothing by his holdout, and giving him a non-specific ultimatum that amounts to "take the offer very soon or it will be withdrawn."
Jerry clearly wants Hankins back to have shown this much patience. Well, Jerry or the owners.
We believe that the D-Line wouldn't miss Hankins, but we don't know it since we didn't see the line play without him. Hankins took 69 percent of the snaps. It's just possible that Harrison would not have elevated his game to 1st team All Pro without Hankins.
It's possible.
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks?
I think the G-Men can go slightly higher, no one is beating down his door to sign him it appears.
Let's deal in some good faith, even if his agent
is a douche.
I am not saying the G-Men aren't, just try and get it done
before the draft. We don't know what a Robert Thomas is,
and I don't have a lot of trust in Bromley myself.
I don't care what his final numbers are as long as we can afford it and it doesn't negatively impact the cap and ability to keep our own moving forward.
Maybe we should consderer moving on with better talent
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
RE: RE: RE: How about sweetening the offer just a bit, so Hankins
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
Yet they just gave a JAG a multi-year deal in one John Jerry, 3/10.5, with 4.25 GTD! Did you miss that signing Milton? I would say Hankins is less of a JAG than Jerry,
I think most would agree with that. Hankins is not a JAG,
not an All Pro, but not a JAG. What have you been watching?
things I have seen in contract negotiations in years. The longer you sit out in free agency your not going to get MORE money.. your going to get less..his agent is hurting him BIG TIME and I hope Hankins realizes this.
RE: Maybe we should consderer moving on with better talent
rather then sign another player that is overrated in BBI
Can you please explain what BBI has to do with the Giants having a standing offer on the table? Do you think BBI runs the Giants? Apparently the Giants think he can play, otherwise they wouldn't have an offer sitting there. Damn BBI!
RE: RE: RE: RE: How about sweetening the offer just a bit, so Hankins
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
Yet they just gave a JAG a multi-year deal in one John Jerry, 3/10.5, with 4.25 GTD! Did you miss that signing Milton? I would say Hankins is less of a JAG than Jerry,
I think most would agree with that. Hankins is not a JAG,
not an All Pro, but not a JAG. What have you been watching?
I just expect more plays out of someone who has the benefit of lining up alongside Harrison, JPP, and Vernon. I'd rather see what someone like Jaleel Johnson or Montravius Adams has to offer.
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
Yet they just gave a JAG a multi-year deal in one John Jerry, 3/10.5, with 4.25 GTD! Did you miss that signing Milton? I would say Hankins is less of a JAG than Jerry,
You bring up a good point, but it just underscores how difficult it is to find decent OL. Nothing was more surprising to me in free agency than the contracts that were offered to the OL. Some positions it pays better to be a JAG than other positions. The last thing you want to be is a JAG RB.
The thing is: if Hankins was such a run-stopping stud, than why the hell did they give Harrison a record-breaking deal for a run-stopping DT? In my mind it was an indictment on their expectations for Hankins. But that's neither here nor there at this point. The point is he is a competent nose-tackle, but nothing special. And the Giants already have a special nose-tackle locked up for another three years. What they need is a competent 3-Technique DT? He doesn't have to be special, he just has to be a natural for that position.
The guy is far from a JAG. That's why this process is so frustrating.
I'm looking for more big plays than the two you mentioned. Do you really want me to describe them for you?
p.s.--The process isn't frustrating, it's revealing. Money talks and bullshit walks. There is still a ton of money out there in cap space. Let's see how much of it Hankins gets. This year and future years.
RE: RE: Hankins caused 2 TDs to be scored last year
The guy is far from a JAG. That's why this process is so frustrating.
I'm looking for more big plays than the two you mentioned. Do you really want me to describe them for you?
p.s.--The process isn't frustrating, it's revealing. Money talks and bullshit walks. There is still a ton of money out there in cap space. Let's see how much of it Hankins gets. This year and future years.
It is frustrating. That's why there's been multiple threads all lamenting the fact that we don't know what the deal is with Hankins. Something can be two things at once. Like the fact that Hankins can be an inferior player compared to Snacks and yet not a JAG. You just don't seem to want to admit to any of that in order to be different. But, you're being disingenuous if you're going to just go against the grain when reason doesn't warrant it.
And I agreed with your prior post that the Hankins contract likely is less (maybe even significantly so) than what was on the minds of the speculators at the start of FA. But now you're saying all these contrarian things that just aren't reasonable or factual, like Hankins is mediocre and no one is frustrated with the process.
the payday snacks got has completely clouded his opinion of his own worth, i would like him back so they can add another DE in this draft in the middle rounds but if he doesnt they can easily bring in a 3 tech NT and as stated with the talent round him competent would be enough, they might even find a better interior rusher than hankins
as this draft is deep on the defensive side of the ball i would give him til a few days before the draft to sign that offer or pull it and move on if he was as valuable as he thinks he would have signed with a team by now.
they need another DL player either way i would prefer to keep hankins and add some insurance at DE especially given the erratic mental state and so far sub-par play of odi at this point but they have enough DE to be able to use that pick on a true 3 tech NT that could even upgrade the defence
RE: RE: RE: Hankins caused 2 TDs to be scored last year
. Something can be two things at once. Like the fact that Hankins can be an inferior player compared to Snacks and yet not a JAG. You just don't seem to want to admit to any of that in order to be different. But, you're being disingenuous if you're going to just go against the grain when reason doesn't warrant it.
I don't want to argue over semantics (i.e, what constitutes a JAG?). In my book he's not a core player, not someone you give a second contract to. He may not be a liability, but I see him as a replaceable part. And when you're already spending so much money on your DL, it's time to replace that replaceable part with a rookie (and the two guys still on their rookie contracts, Bromley and Thomas).
This is YOUR money and YOUR life that you're dealing with and you need to do what's best for you and your family despite what fans want you to do.
That said, Eric's probably right in that what you're doing probably isn't helping your situation.
BUT, we don't know what kind of offers you've been receiving nor the kind of advice you've been getting. So if in your mind waiting is the wise thing to do, then so be it.
RE: RE: RE: Hankins caused 2 TDs to be scored last year
But now you're saying all these contrarian things that just aren't reasonable or factual, like Hankins is mediocre and no one is frustrated with the process.
I'm not being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, but I am opinionated and I have a tendency to dig in when a debate drags on. And for what it's worth I do truly feel that Hankins is mediocre, but I'll give you that it's not for me to decide whether people are frustrated or not by the situation.
Didn't follow Snacks all that much when he was a Jet.
Question I have is rather simple: Was he better as a Jet or a Giant? If he reached his prime last season, might Hankins have had anything to do with that step-up in production?... Maybe, just maybe, it's not so cut and dried; that is, perhaps Hankins isn't so easily or readily replaceable as often opined here and in the media..
Question I have is rather simple: Was he better as a Jet or a Giant? If he reached his prime last season, might Hankins have had anything to do with that step-up in production?... Maybe, just maybe, it's not so cut and dried; that is, perhaps Hankins isn't so easily or readily replaceable as often opined here and in the media..
He was the best run stuffer DL the year before with the Jets too.
the payday snacks got has completely clouded his opinion of his own worth.
If that's the problem, that's ridiculous. Snacks looks like 3 times the player Hankins is, and that's eating doubles while Hank works 1on1 from an advantageous starting position (3-Tech).
The Giants have a front-row seat to the Snacks:Harrison show and that's why we are where we are. How can they justify giving this guy even half what Snacks is getting?
The kid is waiting to see if he can get more money from another team. Good for him. One bad hit and his career could be over.
The draft is still 3.5 weeks away and he's not holding out from off season practices (there aren't any). He's keeping his mouth shut. He's not hurting the Giants in any way.
Which one of us wouldn't wait to see if we could get paid more to do the same work.
Is that it still likely will get done with the Giants, but not nearly for as much as their opening offer.
Poston really did screw the pooch on this one.
There are two other teams still in the mix if Hankins wants to take a 1 year prove it deal (Dolphins and one other which I cannot get confirmation on).
work ethic which ultimately leads me to question his commitment to football. He always seems to wear down in games and now this "holding out for his payday" stance is raising more questions in my eyes. Also, Hankins hasn't really developed and blossomed like most of us thought he would after his big 2014 season. Really his only impressive season as a pro.
I'd start looking at vet stopgaps if I were the Giants.
Sen'derrick Marks, Arthur Jones, Jared Odrick, Tyson Jackson are just a few of the DTs available that would come much cheaper and would be serviceable players for us.
RE: RE: RE: How about sweetening the offer just a bit, so Hankins
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
Hankins is definitely not JAG. While he hasnt lived up to his first year, he is more of an impact than many at his position. If for no other reason than he occupies blockers. He actually can make plays in the backfield. He certainly deserves at least a 3 year deal.
Jerry and management would like him back. Said it right at the
worthy of any consideration. The well has been poisoned and Hankins doesn't appear to be a viable option. There isn't any way Hankins is going to get near what Snacks received. it was business and he took it personally. You can see the bad taste in his mouth and a new team would be to his advantage. It appears he has been "bitch-slapped" and told to hit the road if he doesn't like it. I would hit the road, as I am sure most on this board would. He will probably sign closer to what he is asking but, it will be more incentive based. JMHO.
RE: Didn't follow Snacks all that much when he was a Jet.
Question I have is rather simple: Was he better as a Jet or a Giant? If he reached his prime last season, might Hankins have had anything to do with that step-up in production?... Maybe, just maybe, it's not so cut and dried; that is, perhaps Hankins isn't so easily or readily replaceable as often opined here and in the media..
I think the Jets were running a 3-4 D. That makes your valid question very hard to answer.
RE: It's April 6th. There shouldn't be any impatience or anxiety
I agree with this. Who's in a rush? If he wants to take his time and weigh his options, great. I'm sure he knows that once the draft rolls around that his situation changes considerably, but there's a lot of time between now and then.
RE: RE: Didn't follow Snacks all that much when he was a Jet.
Question I have is rather simple: Was he better as a Jet or a Giant? If he reached his prime last season, might Hankins have had anything to do with that step-up in production?... Maybe, just maybe, it's not so cut and dried; that is, perhaps Hankins isn't so easily or readily replaceable as often opined here and in the media..
I think the Jets were running a 3-4 D. That makes your valid question very hard to answer.
Very true
RE: Jerry and management would like him back. Said it right at the
beginning and still trying. Other average free agents who have given the Giants any contract trouble have just been allowed to leave.
I'm not sure what your point is. He is allowing Hankins to leave.
p.s.--What Reese says publicly about the team's free agents means little compared to what kind of money he offers them. Money talks, bullshit walks.
my offer is this: nothing
Victor in CT : 4/5/2017 8:41 am : link : reply
not even the original contract proposal. You'll play for the vet minimum, which I would appreciate if you put up personally. :-)
Anyway..this could drag until at draft time or etc..negotiations almost NEVER go as planned smoothly..rarely if at all.
Well Slade did make a strong implication that Poston royally screwed the pooch.
You don't have to be somewhat-validated asshat to see the Poston's are mucking this up. It's not like their track record isn't public info. After the Pace debacle you kinda wonder why anyone would even want to be rep'd by them. Q
He was just anonymous, as most run-defense DTs are until they get a big contract.
He was a known commodity to people in the sport. Even Aikman felt he was the biggest addition to the team, and he was saying it before the season had played out. It's not a coincidence that the Jets run defense went down the tubes in 2016.
But now you're saying all these contrarian things that just aren't reasonable or factual, like Hankins is mediocre and no one is frustrated with the process.
I'm not being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, but I am opinionated and I have a tendency to dig in when a debate drags on. And for what it's worth I do truly feel that Hankins is mediocre, but I'll give you that it's not for me to decide whether people are frustrated or not by the situation.
I don't think you know the true definition of mediocre or your standards are just too high. Hankins is a good football player. Just because he's not snacks Harrison doesn't mean the guy isn't above average and capable of greatness or near greatness. There's likely going to be an appreciable drop off from hankins to a rookie and bromley/thomas.
The giants signed snacks because every DT other than Hankins on the roster was completely terrible. Hank wasn't the problem with this defense although the injury sure didn't help.
Trust me you want Hankins to re-sign here because the contract will be a bargain. Why on earth would you want him gone without even seeing the offer? The guy is a good player. lets go with shite because they are cheaper ? No.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Hankins caused 2 TDs to be scored last year
I don't think you know the true definition of mediocre or your standards are just too high. Hankins is a good football player. Just because he's not snacks Harrison doesn't mean the guy isn't above average and capable of greatness or near greatness. There's likely going to be an appreciable drop off from hankins to a rookie and bromley/thomas.
The giants signed snacks because every DT other than Hankins on the roster was completely terrible. Hank wasn't the problem with this defense although the injury sure didn't help.
Trust me you want Hankins to re-sign here because the contract will be a bargain. Why on earth would you want him gone without even seeing the offer? The guy is a good player. lets go with shite because they are cheaper ? No.
because of the matchups with Dallas.
You almost have to judge the man in a vacuum.
Without Hankins the Cowboys brutally strong interior offensive line can dominate and set their running game to dominate.
It is both critical and defining: if we don't beat Dallas it is unlikely that we win the division and/or make the playoffs. Hankins is instrumental to beating Dallas, therefore Hankins is disproportionally important.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Hankins caused 2 TDs to be scored last year
I don't think you know the true definition of mediocre or your standards are just too high. Hankins is a good football player. Just because he's not snacks Harrison doesn't mean the guy isn't above average and capable of greatness or near greatness. There's likely going to be an appreciable drop off from hankins to a rookie and bromley/thomas.
The giants signed snacks because every DT other than Hankins on the roster was completely terrible. Hank wasn't the problem with this defense although the injury sure didn't help.
Trust me you want Hankins to re-sign here because the contract will be a bargain. Why on earth would you want him gone without even seeing the offer? The guy is a good player. lets go with shite because they are cheaper ? No.
What can I say, time will tell.....
Well, you said Hankins was average. You can say the money would be better spent elsewhere but to call Hankins a mediocre player is false. Cullen Jenkins was average when he was on the Giants. Rotational player. Rocky Bernard--average. Rotational player that didn't kill you if his snap count was limited. Hankins is a viable starter. And he's flashed greatness for long stretches of time.
You will be crying if Hankins is gone and we suffer just one injury at DT. More so, Hankins can slide over to Snacks's spot if harrison were to go down. I won't panic if we lose him but i'd feel a lot better about this DL if Hankins is back in 2017.
So c'mon Hank - shit or get off the pot. There is nothing to be gained by watching opportunity go by (or should I say "bye")
It does not make sense and I would imagine the front office is getting a little tired of it let alone the fans.
There is no reason for him to sign today unless the offer improves.
I like him, wanted him to stay, but this is ridiculous. A watched phone never rings, and his won't be ringing. After all this time, the Giants are probably overpaying now. THey should pull the offer, or at least reduce it by 20%.
Poston always over plays his hand
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unless the goal is get Hank to another team.
Poston always over plays his hand
Seems to be the case. His client should've signed when the other DTs began to sign.
In reality, I think they overrate Hank, he's not (yet) an $8M per season DT.
I like him, wanted him to stay, but this is ridiculous. A watched phone never rings, and his won't be ringing. After all this time, the Giants are probably overpaying now. THey should pull the offer, or at least reduce it by 20%.
We aren't the best offer on the table. We are probably the only multi-year offer. So you kind of lose your own leverage.
I think it makes sense just to let him ruin is value by taking it to the draft or after the draft. Pretty dumb of his agent to keep him on the market for this long while other teams cap space dry up. He will have to live with the crumbs that are left over.
It does seem like the agent is the problem but at some point and time the player has to speak up.
I hope it gets done but I won't hold my breath.
They lost Floyd early last season. They survived on defense without him.
He flashed greatness 2 years ago, then missed half a season, and then did not stand out while 3 elite DL drew the attention of offenses.
He is nothing special, which is why he's still sitting out there with his tail between his legs. Pride is the last thing standing in the way of him accepting the Giants offer.
As the draft nears/passes, he loses even more leverage. It's almost sad at this point.
Hankins, at his initial asking price, was laughable. I get why he'd ask for it, but time to come back to reality.
In comment 13417840 annexOPR said:
He flashed greatness 2 years ago, then missed half a season, and then did not stand out while 3 elite DL drew the attention of offenses.
His job on the d-line this past year was exactly what he did. Eat-up double teams, so the rest of the line could attack at will. If you flipped him to Harrison's spot, and he didn't produce, then you could say he didn't stand out. He did his job.
The draft board is not set up based on who you have. Ultimate selections take the current roster into account.
He did not make the kind of plays that warrant a huge contract, especially given the $ spent on JPP/Vernon/Snacks already.
The rest of the NFL seems to agree. He's nothing special. He's a good run stuffer who hasn't built on the promise he showed 2 years ago ... probably why he's still available.
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In comment 13417772 JonC said:
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unless the goal is get Hank to another team.
Poston always over plays his hand
Seems to be the case. His client should've signed when the other DTs began to sign.
In reality, I think they overrate Hank, he's not (yet) an $8M per season DT.
Not the same situation customer contractually but this reminds me
Of when Osi was unhappy and always held out. We don't know what he and his agent discussed. It he's a young sry solid player without a contract. That is an issue. It's like when selling a house or a car. You may think it has a higher value. Waiting this after the draft is pretty dangerous IMO.
once Poe signed a 1 year deal I assumed Hankins would adjust his demands accordingly ... pretty baffling as to what his "strategy" is at this point.
I get that...but you also have to think about the time and effort Giants' scouts need to put into certain positions. If we don't have Hankins for 2017, DT becomes a very high priority and we need to be putting a ton of effort into DT scouting. If we do have him, sure, we still need to scout DT's, but it doesn't need to be nearly as big of a priority and we can focus more time, energy, and effort on other positions.
rotate Bromley/run stuffing rookie, still have 1 of the best DL in football. Or sign Hank for about half of the 10 million he wants. I don't think Hank alters the 1st round consideration too much.
No argument with bad agents (though there are some good ones who help their clients). However, the bad ones really hurt the rest.
The union hasn't hurt the league- the league hurt itself. Look at the laughable joke of a commish they have. The owners don't even put up a pretend front on concerns about the Raiders moving to Las Vegas, leaving it to players to note the concerns that the town will devour young players.
Yet you want to blame the union? Here's a hint- you have NO idea what you are talking about.
AMEN. I feel like everyone's overrating him because he's "our guy" and are still hurt by the Joseph/Griffin/Cofield "losses". Hankins is 100% replaceable.
rotate Bromley/run stuffing rookie, still have 1 of the best DL in football. Or sign Hank for about half of the 10 million he wants. I don't think Hank alters the 1st round consideration too much.
Are you? So by April 4th Giants are completely done scouting players? Take a vacation next 3 weeks? Cool.
I agree. With the way it's played (and still playing) out, I think it might be significantly less than we thought (i.e. not even in the 7 mill per range). That would make the demands his agent was making even more comical to the FOs around the league.
Terrell McClain's deal is worth 21 mill over 4 years (he's the 21st highest paid DT*). I bet that's very near the offer on the table for Hanks, maybe a mill more per.
numbers are per spotrac
I believe they are really trying to get Hankins some super mega deal in a attempt to make themselves relevant again so they can attract more clients.
I believe they are really trying to get Hankins some super mega deal in a attempt to make themselves relevant again so they can attract more clients.
And they could be done in the NFL if it backfires.
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Play well along side very good players. We have to remember that. Plus there is a lot of cap money invested in the DL. I would rather the Giants draft a DL and let Hankins walk
AMEN. I feel like everyone's overrating him because he's "our guy" and are still hurt by the Joseph/Griffin/Cofield "losses". Hankins is 100% replaceable.
You just agreed a few posts back that he did his job. Now he did not play well. Which is it?
He did what he was supposed to from that position. He is there to do the non-glamorous work and eat up blockers for others to run wild. I think it was mission accomplished.
Maybe Rashaad Coward in the fourth? The Giants were apparently checking him out. Just a few weeks left.
Can you provide proof that we are bidding against ourselves? This is the narrative on BBI every single time the Giants sign a player and a poster thinks it was for too much. The Giants were bidding against themselves! Why pay so much!
Hasn't it been stated by one of the clue'd in guys that the Giants don't even have the highest offer on the table? Isn't that the complete opposite of what you say?
Maybe Rashaad Coward in the fourth? The Giants were apparently checking him out. Just a few weeks left.
I've seen DeMarcus Walker go in mocks and see him on draft boards as a 3rd rounder. When the real draft comes around, I don't even think he'll make it to #55 overall, and there is a good chance he could even go in the first round, IMO. People may scoff at that but few players made more impact plays than Walker did last year on the defense.
Hankins is likely getting bad advice and has to be extremely frustrated. Making that situation worse will only increase the odds of signing a disgruntled player.
This isn't a car purchase. We want Hankins to come here and be a motivated and effective player.
Jerry clearly wants Hankins back to have shown this much patience. Well, Jerry or the owners.
We believe that the D-Line wouldn't miss Hankins, but we don't know it since we didn't see the line play without him. Hankins took 69 percent of the snaps. It's just possible that Harrison would not have elevated his game to 1st team All Pro without Hankins.
It's possible.
Jerry clearly wants Hankins back to have shown this much patience. Well, Jerry or the owners.
We believe that the D-Line wouldn't miss Hankins, but we don't know it since we didn't see the line play without him. Hankins took 69 percent of the snaps. It's just possible that Harrison would not have elevated his game to 1st team All Pro without Hankins.
It's possible.
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks?
I think the G-Men can go slightly higher, no one is beating down his door to sign him it appears.
Let's deal in some good faith, even if his agent
is a douche.
I am not saying the G-Men aren't, just try and get it done
before the draft. We don't know what a Robert Thomas is,
and I don't have a lot of trust in Bromley myself.
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doesn't feel like he's crawling back to the Giants having accomplished nothing by his holdout, and giving him a non-specific ultimatum that amounts to "take the offer very soon or it will be withdrawn."
Jerry clearly wants Hankins back to have shown this much patience. Well, Jerry or the owners.
We believe that the D-Line wouldn't miss Hankins, but we don't know it since we didn't see the line play without him. Hankins took 69 percent of the snaps. It's just possible that Harrison would not have elevated his game to 1st team All Pro without Hankins.
It's possible.
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks?
I think the G-Men can go slightly higher, no one is beating down his door to sign him it appears.
Let's deal in some good faith, even if his agent
is a douche.
I am not saying the G-Men aren't, just try and get it done
before the draft. We don't know what a Robert Thomas is,
and I don't have a lot of trust in Bromley myself.
I don't care what his final numbers are as long as we can afford it and it doesn't negatively impact the cap and ability to keep our own moving forward.
Overrated or not, he's a good player. The question just becomes price. Why wouldn't youwant Hankins on the team if the deal is fair?
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
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How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
Yet they just gave a JAG a multi-year deal in one John Jerry, 3/10.5, with 4.25 GTD! Did you miss that signing Milton? I would say Hankins is less of a JAG than Jerry,
I think most would agree with that. Hankins is not a JAG,
not an All Pro, but not a JAG. What have you been watching?
Can you please explain what BBI has to do with the Giants having a standing offer on the table? Do you think BBI runs the Giants? Apparently the Giants think he can play, otherwise they wouldn't have an offer sitting there. Damn BBI!
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In comment 13418186 Carson53 said:
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How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
Yet they just gave a JAG a multi-year deal in one John Jerry, 3/10.5, with 4.25 GTD! Did you miss that signing Milton? I would say Hankins is less of a JAG than Jerry,
I think most would agree with that. Hankins is not a JAG,
not an All Pro, but not a JAG. What have you been watching?
The guy is far from a JAG. That's why this process is so frustrating.
How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
Yet they just gave a JAG a multi-year deal in one John Jerry, 3/10.5, with 4.25 GTD! Did you miss that signing Milton? I would say Hankins is less of a JAG than Jerry,
The thing is: if Hankins was such a run-stopping stud, than why the hell did they give Harrison a record-breaking deal for a run-stopping DT? In my mind it was an indictment on their expectations for Hankins. But that's neither here nor there at this point. The point is he is a competent nose-tackle, but nothing special. And the Giants already have a special nose-tackle locked up for another three years. What they need is a competent 3-Technique DT? He doesn't have to be special, he just has to be a natural for that position.
The guy is far from a JAG. That's why this process is so frustrating.
p.s.--The process isn't frustrating, it's revealing. Money talks and bullshit walks. There is still a ton of money out there in cap space. Let's see how much of it Hankins gets. This year and future years.
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What other big plays are you looking for?
The guy is far from a JAG. That's why this process is so frustrating.
I'm looking for more big plays than the two you mentioned. Do you really want me to describe them for you?
p.s.--The process isn't frustrating, it's revealing. Money talks and bullshit walks. There is still a ton of money out there in cap space. Let's see how much of it Hankins gets. This year and future years.
It is frustrating. That's why there's been multiple threads all lamenting the fact that we don't know what the deal is with Hankins. Something can be two things at once. Like the fact that Hankins can be an inferior player compared to Snacks and yet not a JAG. You just don't seem to want to admit to any of that in order to be different. But, you're being disingenuous if you're going to just go against the grain when reason doesn't warrant it.
And I agreed with your prior post that the Hankins contract likely is less (maybe even significantly so) than what was on the minds of the speculators at the start of FA. But now you're saying all these contrarian things that just aren't reasonable or factual, like Hankins is mediocre and no one is frustrated with the process.
as this draft is deep on the defensive side of the ball i would give him til a few days before the draft to sign that offer or pull it and move on if he was as valuable as he thinks he would have signed with a team by now.
they need another DL player either way i would prefer to keep hankins and add some insurance at DE especially given the erratic mental state and so far sub-par play of odi at this point but they have enough DE to be able to use that pick on a true 3 tech NT that could even upgrade the defence
That said, Eric's probably right in that what you're doing probably isn't helping your situation.
BUT, we don't know what kind of offers you've been receiving nor the kind of advice you've been getting. So if in your mind waiting is the wise thing to do, then so be it.
+1. How are his linemates not telling him to get a new agent? Or maybe they are and he's not listening.
He was the best run stuffer DL the year before with the Jets too.
If that's the problem, that's ridiculous. Snacks looks like 3 times the player Hankins is, and that's eating doubles while Hank works 1on1 from an advantageous starting position (3-Tech).
The Giants have a front-row seat to the Snacks:Harrison show and that's why we are where we are. How can they justify giving this guy even half what Snacks is getting?
The draft is still 3.5 weeks away and he's not holding out from off season practices (there aren't any). He's keeping his mouth shut. He's not hurting the Giants in any way.
Which one of us wouldn't wait to see if we could get paid more to do the same work.
Poston really did screw the pooch on this one.
There are two other teams still in the mix if Hankins wants to take a 1 year prove it deal (Dolphins and one other which I cannot get confirmation on).
I'd start looking at vet stopgaps if I were the Giants.
Sen'derrick Marks, Arthur Jones, Jared Odrick, Tyson Jackson are just a few of the DTs available that would come much cheaper and would be serviceable players for us.
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How about 3/23, with about 12 GTD, does that work for folks
Not for me, that's for fucking sure. I wouldn't offer him $10M for 3 years, but that's because I think he's a JAG and you don't offer JAGs multi-year contracts, you offer them one year minimum deals. I'm more excited to see them draft a DT in the 3rd or 4th round.
Hankins is definitely not JAG. While he hasnt lived up to his first year, he is more of an impact than many at his position. If for no other reason than he occupies blockers. He actually can make plays in the backfield. He certainly deserves at least a 3 year deal.
Not saying that the people here aren't better at evaluating talent than the GM and coaching staff but - maybe I am saying that.
I think the Jets were running a 3-4 D. That makes your valid question very hard to answer.
I agree with this. Who's in a rush? If he wants to take his time and weigh his options, great. I'm sure he knows that once the draft rolls around that his situation changes considerably, but there's a lot of time between now and then.
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Question I have is rather simple: Was he better as a Jet or a Giant? If he reached his prime last season, might Hankins have had anything to do with that step-up in production?... Maybe, just maybe, it's not so cut and dried; that is, perhaps Hankins isn't so easily or readily replaceable as often opined here and in the media..
I think the Jets were running a 3-4 D. That makes your valid question very hard to answer.
Very true
p.s.--What Reese says publicly about the team's free agents means little compared to what kind of money he offers them. Money talks, bullshit walks.
my offer is this: nothing
Victor in CT : 4/5/2017 8:41 am : link : reply
not even the original contract proposal. You'll play for the vet minimum, which I would appreciate if you put up personally. :-)
Well Slade did make a strong implication that Poston royally screwed the pooch.
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Anyway..this could drag until at draft time or etc..negotiations almost NEVER go as planned smoothly..rarely if at all.
Well Slade did make a strong implication that Poston royally screwed the pooch.
You don't have to be somewhat-validated asshat to see the Poston's are mucking this up. It's not like their track record isn't public info. After the Pace debacle you kinda wonder why anyone would even want to be rep'd by them. Q
He was a known commodity to people in the sport. Even Aikman felt he was the biggest addition to the team, and he was saying it before the season had played out. It's not a coincidence that the Jets run defense went down the tubes in 2016.
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But now you're saying all these contrarian things that just aren't reasonable or factual, like Hankins is mediocre and no one is frustrated with the process.
I'm not being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, but I am opinionated and I have a tendency to dig in when a debate drags on. And for what it's worth I do truly feel that Hankins is mediocre, but I'll give you that it's not for me to decide whether people are frustrated or not by the situation.
I don't think you know the true definition of mediocre or your standards are just too high. Hankins is a good football player. Just because he's not snacks Harrison doesn't mean the guy isn't above average and capable of greatness or near greatness. There's likely going to be an appreciable drop off from hankins to a rookie and bromley/thomas.
The giants signed snacks because every DT other than Hankins on the roster was completely terrible. Hank wasn't the problem with this defense although the injury sure didn't help.
Trust me you want Hankins to re-sign here because the contract will be a bargain. Why on earth would you want him gone without even seeing the offer? The guy is a good player. lets go with shite because they are cheaper ? No.
I don't think you know the true definition of mediocre or your standards are just too high. Hankins is a good football player. Just because he's not snacks Harrison doesn't mean the guy isn't above average and capable of greatness or near greatness. There's likely going to be an appreciable drop off from hankins to a rookie and bromley/thomas.
The giants signed snacks because every DT other than Hankins on the roster was completely terrible. Hank wasn't the problem with this defense although the injury sure didn't help.
Trust me you want Hankins to re-sign here because the contract will be a bargain. Why on earth would you want him gone without even seeing the offer? The guy is a good player. lets go with shite because they are cheaper ? No.
You almost have to judge the man in a vacuum.
Without Hankins the Cowboys brutally strong interior offensive line can dominate and set their running game to dominate.
It is both critical and defining: if we don't beat Dallas it is unlikely that we win the division and/or make the playoffs. Hankins is instrumental to beating Dallas, therefore Hankins is disproportionally important.
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I don't think you know the true definition of mediocre or your standards are just too high. Hankins is a good football player. Just because he's not snacks Harrison doesn't mean the guy isn't above average and capable of greatness or near greatness. There's likely going to be an appreciable drop off from hankins to a rookie and bromley/thomas.
The giants signed snacks because every DT other than Hankins on the roster was completely terrible. Hank wasn't the problem with this defense although the injury sure didn't help.
Trust me you want Hankins to re-sign here because the contract will be a bargain. Why on earth would you want him gone without even seeing the offer? The guy is a good player. lets go with shite because they are cheaper ? No.
What can I say, time will tell.....
Well, you said Hankins was average. You can say the money would be better spent elsewhere but to call Hankins a mediocre player is false. Cullen Jenkins was average when he was on the Giants. Rotational player. Rocky Bernard--average. Rotational player that didn't kill you if his snap count was limited. Hankins is a viable starter. And he's flashed greatness for long stretches of time.
You will be crying if Hankins is gone and we suffer just one injury at DT. More so, Hankins can slide over to Snacks's spot if harrison were to go down. I won't panic if we lose him but i'd feel a lot better about this DL if Hankins is back in 2017.