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Eli Manning HOF viability

japanhead : 4/6/2017 8:39 pm
Eli Manning HOF viability:

Pros

Top 10 all time in passing yards (#7)
Top 10 all time in completed passes (#8)
Top 10 all time in passing TDs (#7)
Top 10 all time in passing attempts (#7)
Top 10 all time in 4th quarter comebacks (#7)
2 superbowl wins, 2 superbowl MVPs, 8-4 playoff record
Upright citizen

Cons

Low career completion percentage (60%)
Low-ish career passer rating (84)
Two terrible regular seasons (2004, 2013)

We all know many of his playoff performances were out of this world (passer ratings by game: 132, 129, 117, 115, 104, 87, 86, 82, 72, 72, 41, 35), but his career average playoff rating is only 87 largely due to that terrible Carolia loss (35) in 2005 and that nightmarish Eagles loss (41) the year Burress shot himself (2008). So he has had two horrific playoff performances, although somewhat early in his career.

I know football isn't a stats game, eyeball test, and all that, but after another season or two he is knocking at the top 5 in many of those categories above. Now granted he won't make the top 5 in most if not all of those categories. But peep who is in the top 5. He is breathing rarified air. I think he gets in easily, maybe first ballot.
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If Kurt - plastic or paper - Warner got in  
trueblueinpw : 4/6/2017 8:42 pm : link
Then the greatest QB to ever play for the Giants should be first ballot slams dunk.
He's in  
Torrag : 4/6/2017 8:46 pm : link
They'll jerk him around on the first ballot then he'll go in. Like Strahan and that was a fucking joke too.
Durability...  
figgy2989 : 4/6/2017 8:48 pm : link
199 consecutive starts
They're not going to look at playoff passer rating  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/6/2017 8:52 pm : link
Football HOF voters are generally very traditional. It's rings and historical stats

He's got the rings, and thanks to Beckham he's scaling the all time list in multiple categories.

At the end of the day, there are too many championships and "____ all time in ____" next to his resume to keep him out after a couple more seasons.
This  
Doomster : 4/6/2017 8:58 pm : link
the monthly Eli HOF post?
My prediction  
Jay on the Island : 4/6/2017 9:02 pm : link
Tony Romo gets voted in as a first ballot hall of famer while Eli doesn't get in until his 2nd or 3rd shot.
An immortal lock when all is SAID AND DONE, imv..  
Big Blue '56 : 4/6/2017 9:06 pm : link
How long it MIGHT take, I have zero idea
RE: My prediction  
shelovesnycsports : 4/6/2017 9:46 pm : link
In comment 13419935 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Tony Romo gets voted in as a first ballot hall of famer while Eli doesn't get in until his 2nd or 3rd shot.


Romo a hall of famer with @ playoff Wins???????????
@=2  
shelovesnycsports : 4/6/2017 9:47 pm : link
2 wins.
RE: Durability...  
japanhead : 4/6/2017 9:55 pm : link
good call. he is also top 10 all time in consecutive starts for a QB (#3). Behind only Peyton and Favre.

In comment 13419914 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
199 consecutive starts
As I say every time this brought up, only if he wins a third SB and  
Devon : 4/6/2017 10:04 pm : link
is at the forefront of it somehow.

Look up who votes and will still likely be voting. With a few exceptions. the general opinion on him as a player from most of those guys isn't usually glowing and as rate stats seep into the discussion more, it will only hurt him worse. 2013 unfortunately and unfairly completely wrecked how he had been turning his narrative around. He's viewed as an inconsistent turnover machine that consistently misses the playoffs and has to be carried to any success by the defense and now Beckham. Even his SB MVPs get routinely tagged with "... but they could/should have gone to someone else."
devon  
japanhead : 4/6/2017 10:13 pm : link
he doesn't even sniff the top 10 or 20 for all time interceptions. the turnover machine narrative is bullshit if he is knocking at no. 5 for 4 of the all-time records, they can't keep him out coz he is perceived as a turnover machine, esp if the data don't support that narrative, right? the process isn't totally biased and based on feelings is it? i've never looked up who votes
RE: As I say every time this brought up, only if he wins a third SB and  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/6/2017 10:33 pm : link
In comment 13420014 Devon said:
Quote:
is at the forefront of it somehow.

Look up who votes and will still likely be voting. With a few exceptions. the general opinion on him as a player from most of those guys isn't usually glowing and as rate stats seep into the discussion more, it will only hurt him worse. 2013 unfortunately and unfairly completely wrecked how he had been turning his narrative around. He's viewed as an inconsistent turnover machine that consistently misses the playoffs and has to be carried to any success by the defense and now Beckham. Even his SB MVPs get routinely tagged with "... but they could/should have gone to someone else."


I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. People like to talk about how there's this big agenda against Eli Manning and I don't see it. Earlier in his career you could certainly make that claim, but not now. Nobody goes after him

. Also, I don't see anyone on the list of hall of fame voters that would make me think twice other than Gary Myers.

http://www.profootballhof.com/heroes-of-the-game/becoming-a-hall-of-famer/

It's not like it's a who's who of media personalities that are known to be Anti-Eli.
To some extent, it is BS, but he has been, at times, ridiculously  
Devon : 4/6/2017 10:40 pm : link
turnover-prone for the eras he's played in. He plays two more years, 32 games, throws 15 picks each (a low total by his own standards, even if no longer by league ones), he'll be in the top ten for interceptions -- that's pretty rough, given how the league has been trending since about when he came into it and he hasn't offset it with his other stats being great, outside of some compiling counting stats thanks to his durability, like a Brees has.

It's mostly about perception and narrative though. Something doesn't have to be accurate or accurately paint the full picture (2013 was pretty much Gilbride throwing him to slaughter, with how terrible that group was, but he's the one who has to carry it) to be accepted. If he was louder or had more swag or wasn't Peyton's little lesser brother, maybe the bad things wouldn't have stuck or stick the way they do for his image and the picks, playoff misses, etc wouldn't matter like they never did for someone like Favre.
He is very close  
section125 : 4/6/2017 10:48 pm : link
at worst.
It's mainly fans who don't respect Eli  
UConn4523 : 4/6/2017 10:50 pm : link
he's highly regarded otherwise and is a HoF lock even if he never plays another down. Not first ballot, but he's in at some point.
devon  
japanhead : 4/6/2017 11:05 pm : link
he is currently #21 for all time interceptions. he might make top 10 (so will brees if he plays 2 more years), but he will also be like #6 for 4 of the all time records. maybe #5 for 4th quarter comebacks. i don't see how the interceptions dog him on the ballot to that extent. part of the reasons he's had more career interceptions is because he's played a lot more games than other QBs drafted around that time like rothelisberger, rivers, palmer, rodgers. i mean, granted rodgers only has 72 career INTs in 135 games, but still. i agree if he is top 10 INTs for his career it will be an X on his record.
Seems like the only people that care are Giant fans  
xman : 4/7/2017 12:19 am : link
for good reason. Outside of that group I don;t think people care or think of it because it is not a slam dunk. Keep bringing up two SB MVP's daily because thats his biggest claim to fame. And who votes for that award?
He's highly regarded?  
KWALL2 : 4/7/2017 1:53 am : link
He's always ranked outside of the top 10 at the position by just about every football publication.

Other NFL players who vote in that top 100 NFL network have never ranked him high.

Today, Ryan Clark was talking about how overrated Romo was and while he was saying it he said he was a tougher guy to prepare for then Eli.

Outsid did the NYG fan base he doesn't get recognition as a great QB. Very good at time. Never elite. Durable. With some notable wins. That's the rep he has outside of NY.
You seriously count 2004  
SHO'NUFF : 4/7/2017 3:36 am : link
against him?
HOF shouldn't be stat accumulation  
chilly460 : 4/7/2017 6:45 am : link
Different eras skew the stats too much. Criteria for HOF should be was the player top three at his position for at least 5yrs of his career. Except for 2011, Eli has never had a year they puts him in that category
RE: He's highly regarded?  
JCin332 : 4/7/2017 6:56 am : link
In comment 13420147 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He's always ranked outside of the top 10 at the position by just about every football publication.

Other NFL players who vote in that top 100 NFL network have never ranked him high.

Today, Ryan Clark was talking about how overrated Romo was and while he was saying it he said he was a tougher guy to prepare for then Eli.

Outsid did the NYG fan base he doesn't get recognition as a great QB. Very good at time. Never elite. Durable. With some notable wins. That's the rep he has outside of NY.


Dude you are so predictable...clueless how hard to win not one but two SB's...

Ryan Clark my ass...
The reason it will take a while for him to get in....  
WideRight : 4/7/2017 7:11 am : link
The HOF is a commercial enterprise that needs to be relevant - continue to draw attention from fans and the media to promote itself. No better way than to prolong some controversy regarding its selection process. Snubbing Eli fits the bill perfectly.
Clark...my ass?  
KWALL2 : 4/7/2017 7:19 am : link
He played over 10 years. He won a SB. So he probably knows how hard it is to win one. Probably knows a little about the game. I'm sure you agree with his opinion on Romo, but anything that doesn't elevate Eli means he's a clueless hack. I get it.

For the past 10 years we've seen QB rankings consistently rank Eli outside of the top 10. Year after year. Isn't that a sign he isn't highly regarded outside of this fan base?
RE: If Kurt - plastic or paper - Warner got in  
mrvax : 4/7/2017 7:38 am : link
In comment 13419905 trueblueinpw said:
Quote:
Then the greatest QB to ever play for the Giants should be first ballot slams dunk.



LOL!
There are a few QBs in already that couldn't hold Eli's jock.
RE: My prediction  
mrvax : 4/7/2017 7:42 am : link
In comment 13419935 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
Tony Romo gets voted in as a first ballot hall of famer while Eli doesn't get in until his 2nd or 3rd shot.


Well hell. Romo didn't turn down a team that drafted him, did he?



:>)
hall of fame  
Jesse B : 4/7/2017 7:49 am : link
I mean in the very name and nature of the place it's a hall of famous people. When you write the story of the league you have to include him as all time Giants QB and the nemesis of BB and Brady. He's a likeable guy and he'll have all metrics that matter. Top 10 in yards, Top 10 touchdowns etc. and he 2 Super Bowl Victories.

He's not the greatest QB of all time but he's a ball of Famer
RE: Clark...my ass?  
UConn4523 : 4/7/2017 8:26 am : link
In comment 13420192 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He played over 10 years. He won a SB. So he probably knows how hard it is to win one. Probably knows a little about the game. I'm sure you agree with his opinion on Romo, but anything that doesn't elevate Eli means he's a clueless hack. I get it.

For the past 10 years we've seen QB rankings consistently rank Eli outside of the top 10. Year after year. Isn't that a sign he isn't highly regarded outside of this fan base?


I think you care and put entirely too much stock in lists and sound bites. Look at the selection committee instead of guys like Ryan Clarke.
Guys who have..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/7/2017 8:31 am : link
championed Jay Cutler as being better than Eli Manning are going to use whatever chance they can to downgrade his accomplishments.

Hell, just yesterday, we were told that in the Giants two SB runs that the defense really was the reason we have the rings.

I'll ask the question I always do: How many times in the Eli Manning Era have the Giants had the best team? How many rings do they have?

My answer is they have been the best team zero times and won two rings. That's enough to get Eli into the HOF, and it is surely enough to get people who rated Jay Cutler as better to realize how idiotic they sound on every Eli thread.
RE: RE: My prediction  
mack809f : 4/7/2017 8:55 am : link
In comment 13419984 shelovesnycsports said:
Quote:
In comment 13419935 Jay on the Island said:


Quote:


Tony Romo gets voted in as a first ballot hall of famer while Eli doesn't get in until his 2nd or 3rd shot.



Romo a hall of famer with @ playoff Wins???????????


Romo gets in as a holder
Eli vs. Romo  
Tom in DC : 4/7/2017 9:03 am : link
I know the argument defaults to ELi vs Romo eventually, but when compared to their peers (QBs in the league at the same time), Romo just doesn't favorably compare.


Tony Romo Was A Good QB In An Era Of Great Ones - ( New Window )
I think he is.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/7/2017 9:09 am : link
But a lot of people don't. There's just a lot of antipathy towards Eli, most of it stemming from '04 & the absurd putdown that he isn't his brother, who might be one of the top three QBS ever.
he is a shoe in at this point  
Giants86 : 4/7/2017 9:15 am : link
never misses games. Two titles, top of the list in most of the passing stats. Beat Brady and Bill 2 times.
RE: he is a shoe in at this point  
UConn4523 : 4/7/2017 9:50 am : link
In comment 13420313 Giants86 said:
Quote:
never misses games. Two titles, top of the list in most of the passing stats. Beat Brady and Bill 2 times.


Being an iron man is probably his most underrated trait. It's also a trait that's highly regarded across all of sports.
Fmic  
KWALL2 : 4/7/2017 10:08 am : link
Are you really one of the fans that takes every comment on Eli as an attack? It makes you look like a chump.

First of all, the defense is the reason we won the SB and that isn't a shot at Eli unless your one of the guys with a need to defend him on any front: my issue with that thread was Terpa saying he carries the worst team to ever win a SB. That's idiotic. And so is defending that BS point.

My point here? Is it a shot at Eli? Only in the eyes of a few. Surprised you're in that group but I see you are and fall back on the old Cutler routine.

Why not stick to the point?

Eli is "highly regarded" outside of teams?

You agree with that?

I know you don't because your one of the guys who bitches the most when these rankings are posted here. Every year, like another weak Cutler reference, you are here to bitch about it.

I don't think he's highly regarded outside of fans. Most believe he was not and never has been an elite player.

Time to reply with more Cutler BS? Have at it.
So if Joe Flacco wins another one...is he in HOF?  
chilly460 : 4/7/2017 10:09 am : link
If you look at their numbers at same point in career, Flacco and Eli are fairly similar. If Flacco were to add another SB win, would you consider him a HOF'er?

Because, outside Giants fans, there are a lot of people that consider Eli = Flacco type of player.
Meant  
KWALL2 : 4/7/2017 10:10 am : link
Eli highly regarded outside of fans?
Anyone consider Flacco a HOF type QB?  
chilly460 : 4/7/2017 10:14 am : link
If you look at their numbers at same point in career, Flacco and Eli are fairly similar. If Flacco were to add another SB win, would you consider him a HOF'er?

Because, outside Giants fans, there are a lot of people that consider Eli = Flacco type of player.
RE: So if Joe Flacco wins another one...is he in HOF?  
Britt in VA : 4/7/2017 10:15 am : link
In comment 13420412 chilly460 said:
Quote:
If you look at their numbers at same point in career, Flacco and Eli are fairly similar. If Flacco were to add another SB win, would you consider him a HOF'er?

Because, outside Giants fans, there are a lot of people that consider Eli = Flacco type of player.


1. That's a big assed "if".
2. Will Joe Flacco finish in the top 5-10 in all of the all time categories that Eli has?
3. Does Joe Flacco have anything unique on his resume, like Eli's current iron man streak?
I've said for years..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/7/2017 10:19 am : link
that people who don't appreciate Eli fail one of football's IQ tests. That people who don't value SB wins, as a team, coach or player, fail football's IQ tests. That people who expect success every year and then try to call the team shit when they don't achieve it fail football's IQ tests.

I don't take every comment against Eli as an attack - just ones that are pretty idiotic, especially the attempts to downplay his significance to this team's history.

I don't give a shit about rankings or what reporter's comments are. When I chime in on these threads - it isn't to talk about the rankings - it is usually to rebut the ramblings of supposed Giants fans. The ones that feel a need to minimize what Eli has done, whether it be by calling him a "game-manager" while winning two SB's, or throw out comparisons to shitty QB's who have come and gone while Eli is still around.

I really don't give a shit how some reporter ranks things - I give more of a shit that our own fans don't comprehend Eli, especially those who seem proud to wallow in the ignorance.
RE: Meant  
JCin332 : 4/7/2017 10:20 am : link
In comment 13420413 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
Eli highly regarded outside of fans?


Its amazing to me that some "Giant fans" like yourself can't grasp the significance of what Eli has accomplished here during his career...

Guys, this is a no brainer....  
Britt in VA : 4/7/2017 10:32 am : link
You're a HOF voter, and they submit a guy for voting who:

1. Has won 2 Superbowls and 2 Superbowl MVP's
2. Finished in the top ten (likely top five) all time statistically in most major passing categories.
3. Started at least 199 consecutive games (hopefully many more by then, but 199 guaranteed as of right now), basically 13 years without EVER missing a game.
4. Led two game winning drives to win both Superbowls.

Do you even hesitate? It's a stone cold f-cking lock.

The ONLY quarterback with two Superbowl wins not in the HOF is Jim Plunkett. He doesn't have anything nearly close to the rest of the list above, despite playing for like 15 seasons.
Not to mention being half of the greatest play in NFL history.  
Britt in VA : 4/7/2017 10:34 am : link
.
Joe Flacco doesn't play in NY  
UConn4523 : 4/7/2017 10:34 am : link
Has 5 less 4K yard seasons (only has 1 I believe) and averages 6 less TDs per season. A lot can happen be he likely doesn't come close to what Eli will finish with from a stats perspective.
Oh, and being the only QB to ever beat Belichick and Brady,  
Britt in VA : 4/7/2017 10:35 am : link
not once, but TWICE, in the Superbowl... Including one of the teams was 18-0 when it happened and the Giants were 12 point dogs going into it.
FMic, It isn't "some reporter"  
KWALL2 : 4/7/2017 10:35 am : link
It's not isolated to a few here and there. Its not one year or a few. t's most of them over a long period of time and these are the guys who happen to vote for the HOF.

So is he highly regarded outside of fans?

Is it the truly informed that consider him elite and HOF worthy? I realize you consider yourself part of this group. Outside of you, who are these people?
Didn't Eli take his team into Pittsburgh and beat Clark's Steelers..  
Britt in VA : 4/7/2017 10:38 am : link
there the year Clark won his Superbowl, without his best WR for the first half of the game, and by displaying gigantic balls of steel by throwing a deep bomp to Amani Toomer on 4th and 1 (yet another 4th quarter comeback).

Was Clark prepared for that one?
RE: He is very close  
T-Bone : 4/7/2017 10:40 am : link
In comment 13420075 section125 said:
Quote:
at worst.


This.

And I don't think he has a chance in hell of going first ballot. Nor do I think he should.
KWALL..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/7/2017 10:42 am : link
just look at Britt's list above. If you don't think those metrics get you into the HOF then I don't know what to tell you.

Don't give a shit about what I think or how in tune I am with the pulse of people outside of the team. If you look at that list of accomplishments and think he's not getting in, then you're as apathetic about Eli as you come across on BBI.
RE: FMic, It isn't  
UConn4523 : 4/7/2017 10:46 am : link
In comment 13420445 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
It's not isolated to a few here and there. Its not one year or a few. t's most of them over a long period of time and these are the guys who happen to vote for the HOF.

So is he highly regarded outside of fans?

Is it the truly informed that consider him elite and HOF worthy? I realize you consider yourself part of this group. Outside of you, who are these people?


Depends on what you believe. The NFL is a media circus, any and everyone fighting for a piece to stay relevant. Take Sal Palantonio. Despite being an eagles fan and saying what he does to appease that fan base, I have a hard time believeing he thinks Eli has an average NFL career. It just doesn't make sense.

His body of work, his iron man streak, his 2 historic SB wins, and his philanthropy makes him a shoe in. He's a true ambassador to the sport. Not sure what else you are looking for.
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