Eli Manning HOF viability

In comment 13420704 Britt in VA said:

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I Googled "Worst Teams To Ever Win Superbowl". The 2011 Giants, as well at the 2007 Giants, are on most lists.

To MAKE the SB is worthy of discussion re worst teams ever. BUT, their entire YEAR'S body of work resulting in two championships puts them at 14-6 for 2007 and 13-7(2011) in totality, making them extremely worthy champions for a full football calendar year..

It almost always goes to the QB.

In 2007, that should have gone to somebody on the DL like Tuck.

Does the best team always win the SB? No. Plenty win it without being the best. Plenty of the best teams (2008 Giants, 2011 Packers) don't even make it.

tuck should've been the 2007 SB MVP. eli probably deserved it for the sack escape and tyree heave alone. that play was all heart. the problem with giving it to tuck was that he was not uniquely dominant, the whole DL was.. shit, jay alford had a big sack in that game..

And they beat some of the best teams ever to win it.

2007 NE
2011 GB and NE

On the other hand, there are seasons when you don't have a truly great team and the team wins. That isn't more impressive than beating an undefeated team with the highest scoring offense ever?

Or beating a team like the 2011 Packers and a QB who had maybe the greatest season ever. Rodgers? 69%. Sick YPA. One of the highest ever. In 16 games he had 45 Tds. Only 6 Ints for the year. Not too long ago a 2 to 1 ratio in TD to Int was excellent. He was at 7.5 to 1 for the year with the highest scoring offense.

Vs Giants? 2 TOs. 4 sacks. 56% Low YPA of 5.5.

They beat a 15 win Packer team with one of the greatest QBs ever. Then beat another elite team in NE.

That shouldn't get you the title worst to win a SB.

every one of your posts is literally trying to argue points against eli.

That he shouldn't have been the MVP.
That the D carried the team.
That anyone not associated with the Giants thinks he's a stiff

Almost everyone else on this thread will acknowledge that other parts played a part in success. The D, coaching, etc. I keep saying that we didn't have the best team and yet we won 2 SB's, so credit needs to go all around.

So my bewilderment keeps hinging on the idea that certain posters seem to spend a shitload of time figuring out arguments against Eli. It goes beyond logic. On a fan board, I'd expect people to probably give too much praise to a guy who has been an Ironman, a 2 time SB winner and MVP, and a guy who says and does the right things. What I wouldn't expect is a disproportionate amount of time spent across numerous threads trying to argue the marginality of the QB.

Like I've said before - it is just bizarre. I get fanboys, since it is a Giants fan board. I absolutely don't get supposed fans who don't give him his due, especially because the whole board knows if Eli went to Rutgers, the exact opposite would happen.

that the people who vote on HOF ballots don't think of him as an elite QB. They think of him as a solid, gutsy, clutch QB who got lucky in two SuperBowls.

He needs another ring to be a lock. Without another ring, I would call him borderline at best to be inducted.

In 2007, maybe the entire DL should have won. Or at least Osi, Strahan, & Tuck, all made big plays. Tuck had more than the others.

that I think he should be inducted. His stats, durability, longevity and two rings have earned his way in, as far as I am concerned. But the people who vote on the HoF ballot mostly don't think that way, from what I gather from the media coverage Eli receives.

The last post is nothing but horseshit. An opinion you have and a few others that I have some kind of agenda against Eli.

Thats BS.

I don't think he "carried the worst team to a title". That's a problem for you. Very strange. Nothing I wrote in that entire thread was a knock on the guy. I happen to believe it was more of a team win and the defense was the primary reason for it. Many agree with it. Many may not. But nothing I posted there should be enough to get you all worked up.

Same is true today.

I dont think a SB MVP should carry the weight it does. Not just Eli. In 2007, we played the greatest offense ever right? The defense won the game. They had exceptional performances from the DL. Somebody there should have won it. But it always goes to the QB. Thats just how it is.

I also don't think that "anyone not associated with the Giants thinks he's a stiff". This is what you do. You run with a comment and form your own story. And you're often wrong (remember going off on my about being Anti-Coughlin. That was more BS because I never wanted the guy fired. Ever.).

In this thread, my reply was to Uconn who stated "outside of fans he's highly regarded". Even you don't agree with that except for your IQ test BS. He isn't highly regarded outside of the NY fan base. And we see it every year while you and others bitch about QB rankings year in and year out.

If I'm wrong on this point, why not address it. Or you can fall back on the Cutler reference or now bringing up Rutgers. Really? That's what you have to offer here?


Again, I didn't rip him yesterday or today. Not agreeing he didnt carry the team or better yet "willed" the team to a title isn't a knock on the player. Got it?

that Eli didn't carry the team argumentation. Frankly, I don't think any one player carries a team.

My problem is that you use post after post to argue and pretty much say that Eli is a marginal QB. My problem is trying to figure out the motivation to do that.

The Cutler and Rutgers references aren't all I have to "offer". It goes to a long-standing and frequent pattern of picking certain favorites and continually expounding on it, which is adorably hilarious since is't that the exact thing you're being a contrarian on regarding Eli?

Most people outside of BBI think Cutler and Rutgers suck ass. But most people outside of BBI don't spend countless threads to make that point. You use countless threads to take the podium to say that Eli really isn't any great shakes.

I agree that Eli gets a lot of praise here. But again - being a Giants board rooting for a guy who is a 2 time SB winner and MVP, an Ironman and a great citizen is understandable. I disagree with those calling Eli the greatest, but not to the point I'm going to write post after post trying to allot losses to him during a SB year.

The problem is you are in the midst of watching one of the greatest Giants ever and frankly, you don't seem to enjoy it. That's disappointing on many levels.

My last comment about this guy was what? 5 years ago? Longer?

Same with Rutgers.

Time to update the material,

I don't agree with it but countless people view him as what Flacco might be 8 years from now or Philip Rivers with 2 rings. He is at best in the second tier of quarterbacks in the minds of many and at worst an "average" and lucky QB. Not my words.

If Brees, Brady, Rodgers, Manning, and the Rapist all were somehow hall eligible at the same time Eli Manning goes last IMO purely because of perception. But he does get in.

You can't tell the story of the NFL without him, he will have the longevity and the stats as well as the rings. He just might have to wait, which isn't fair but like I said - he gets in.

here is what happened

1. Somebody said he carried the team to a title. The worst team to win ever too.
2. I replied to that comment. I think it's ridiculous actually and mentioned the defense as what I feel the main reason.
3. The comments about the defense lead to an exchange where the same posted called the 2011 defense a joke.
4. I don't agree with that about the D, or that the QB carried the team so I provided some info that I thought would back up my point about the D.

So this is it.

Didn't rip him unless pointing out games where he didn't carry the team is ripping. Or laughing about a comment that he "willed" the team to a title. Or not agreeing that he's "highly regarded outside of fanbase".

While a few here (the ones I'm replying to) are claiming he carried the team, I posted he carried the team in a couple of wins (true). The D showed up in a majority of wins(true). D gave us no shot in a few(true). Eli hurt us in a few(true).

You want to reply about it and try something more than the old standard of BS. Go ahead. Just keep in mind you agree with most of it don't you?

You have too much time on your hands. Give it up.

You hate eli. We get it.

I don't "hate" him so you can try and do better than that, cant you?

I call him a fringe HOF (that many agree with) and I hate him.
I predicted his best year in 2016. I posted here 40 TDs. But I hate him.

Makes sense.

What I really hate is Giant fans blowing smoke up anybody's ass about Eli such as the one man show in 2011 routine. And any post to the contrary, even by some who agree with me, is a shot at Eli.

In comment 13420819 KWALL2 said:

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here is what happened 1. Somebody said he carried the team to a title. The worst team to win ever too. 2. I replied to that comment. I think it's ridiculous actually and mentioned the defense as what I feel the main reason. 3. The comments about the defense lead to an exchange where the same posted called the 2011 defense a joke. 4. I don't agree with that about the D, or that the QB carried the team so I provided some info that I thought would back up my point about the D. So this is it. Didn't rip him unless pointing out games where he didn't carry the team is ripping. Or laughing about a comment that he "willed" the team to a title. Or not agreeing that he's "highly regarded outside of fanbase". While a few here (the ones I'm replying to) are claiming he carried the team, I posted he carried the team in a couple of wins (true). The D showed up in a majority of wins(true). D gave us no shot in a few(true). Eli hurt us in a few(true). You want to reply about it and try something more than the old standard of BS. Go ahead. Just keep in mind you agree with most of it don't you?

People will point to how shitty the defense was during the regular season, but fail to see that the defense started clicking towards the end of the year. Did Peyton Manning carry the Colts defense, or did the Colts defense get better with Bob Sanders back?

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Did Peyton Manning carry the Colts defense, or did the Colts defense get better with Bob Sanders back?

So now ask fans who was key to that Colts SB run and see how many come up with Bob Sanders vs. Peyton, because that's basically what KWALL argues against Eli almost every time.

The reality is that the entire Giants team came together for the SB wins, despite not being the best team in the league. And Eli made some incredible plays and throws. While I don't think Eli was the only reason for the 2 SB's, arguing vehemently against it every chance I can seems to be an odd activity on a Giants board.

Especially when we look at other teams, not many people would put much argument if it was said Peyton Manning led the Colts to a SB title or Favre led the Packers to the titles. Somehow if Eli is said to have led the Giants to a title, KWALL feels the need to correct the record.

is a non-starter. Int% is a better stat if you want to pick on Eli (no pun intended). And using that, he is tied at 61 on the career, qualifying list.

There are 21 HOF QBs ranked lower/worse than him including Favre, Bradshaw, Unitas, Staubach, Starr, Fouts, Moon and Kelly. Warner is ranked 60th.

My conclusion is that HOF voters do not factor in absolute or % of interceptions. We shouldnt also.

About Sanders in that run including the stats behind it. They averaged a league worst rush yards/game. He comes back and they cut it in half. And Sanders was the difference. He was the reason the Colts won that SB. He was the MVP of that team and the SB.

My Manning hate is not restricted to Eli.

Isn't that different than carrying the worst team ever, or better yet, willing the team to the title.

It didn't happen with Ei.

Didn't happen with Peyton either. He didn't carry that defense or will Bob Sanders to dominate, but according to some it's always the QB.

In comment 13420147 KWALL2 said:

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He's always ranked outside of the top 10 at the position by just about every football publication. Other NFL players who vote in that top 100 NFL network have never ranked him high. Today, Ryan Clark was talking about how overrated Romo was and while he was saying it he said he was a tougher guy to prepare for then Eli. Outsid did the NYG fan base he doesn't get recognition as a great QB. Very good at time. Never elite. Durable. With some notable wins. That's the rep he has outside of NY.

That's not entirely true at all. That's one perception in or outside the NYC area but not the only one and I don't think it's the prominent perception. I've run into many fans from other regions who love Eli. Matter of fact most fans outside the area that aren't idiotic say Eli is a lock for the hof. Writers are a different story i think Eli will get in assuming he pads a little more. Some additional playoff success would not hurt. That too will come.

In comment 13420412 chilly460 said:

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If you look at their numbers at same point in career, Flacco and Eli are fairly similar. If Flacco were to add another SB win, would you consider him a HOF'er? Because, outside Giants fans, there are a lot of people that consider Eli = Flacco type of player.

If flacco leads the ravens to an another insanely clutch postseason tour ending in a super bowl title? Yes he's in but like Eli he will have to wait. No first ballot.

Super Bowls count a lot. For Every season where the qb is "ranked outside the top ten" the super bowl title where the qb earned every yard trumps that crap ten fold.

And please save me this crap that Eli was ranked outside the top ten every year. Not only is this not true it's not a fair way to judge the guy.

You don't have to be a "great" qb to have a great career. I use quotes because great is subjective horse shit. Define great?

Eli has had a great career even if he wasn't ever top 3. Hof takes many things into account. You have to check off a lot of boxes. Eli has checked off enough assuming he can pad just a little bit more and mini shine in January once more. The guy has stamped himself all over the NFL landscape this era. That's hof caliber.

If Eli hadn't been playing out of his mind, it wouldn't have mattered if the defense came together in the final six games of the season (final two of the regular season), because the season would have been over.

Eli and his 6 fourth quarter comebacks (up to that point in the season) are the difference between 7-7 and 1-7 honestly.

THe defense that season had bad stretches, including 4 losses in a row that yielded historically bad results.

Did you see my breakdown of the 2011 season?

He carried the team in 2 wins. Only 2 required more than 25 points to win. Arz and Dal in game 1. Other than that how did his out of mind play get us there?

The Defense was excellent in 6 of the 9 wins and good in one other.. 5 of wins they allowed 17 or less. 20 on the road vs NE. Was that about the QB in those wins?

4 losses in a row was a game where they lost 17-10 to PHI. Very good defensive game.

And the WAS game with 3 games left? Another strong defrensive game. INT on first play of game. 2 INTs on first 3 series. 3YPC. Only allows 189 yards passing. Eli had 3 picks. 2 in our end that led to 10 points.

he derailed the patriots perfect season with a miracle throw and carried one of the weakest teams i ever saw to superbowl victory in 2011 add to that he kept the giants relavant even with a less than stellar receiving core (pre beckham) he threw for some impressive stats if he can get over the hump and win it again it would be impossible for him not to make it imho
they have a defence capable of winning them a superbowl again if the OL can improve enough

In comment 13421100 Britt in VA said:

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If Eli hadn't been playing out of his mind, it wouldn't have mattered if the defense came together in the final six games of the season (final two of the regular season), because the season would have been over. Eli and his 6 fourth quarter comebacks (up to that point in the season) are the difference between 7-7 and 1-7 honestly. THe defense that season had bad stretches, including 4 losses in a row that yielded historically bad results.

What part of the season were those 4 losses?

the losses dropped us from 6-2 to 6-6.

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Didn't happen with Peyton either. He didn't carry that defense or will Bob Sanders to dominate, but according to some it's always the QB

"According to some" is pretty much most of the NFL fan base and storylines from the Colts SB, which is ironic because isn't that what you are pointing to as a factor for Eli not being a lock for the HOF?

Why is the opinion from other fans and reporters valid for Eli, but are deemed unworthy in other cases?

Probably because it doesn't suit the agenda of trying to marginalize the guy.

that Coughlin quote:

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Manning now is one of only five players in NFL history with multiple Super Bowl MVP awards. He joined the guy he got the better of in the big game yet again, Brady, along with Terry Bradshaw, Bart Starr and Joe Montana (the only player with three).

Any of those other guys not in the HOF?

I believe that is the best standard for the HoF

And I dont think you can tell the story of the NFL without Eli Manning

The 2 Super Bowl wins were just too consequential since they were over the unbeaten Patriots and the greatest dynasty, HC and QB of all-time.

Not too mention the spectacular runs to get there, the Ice Bowl II win, etc.

Eli became the first QB ever to need a TD ito win n the SB in the final drive and deliver.

Obviously the greatest play of all time in the Tyree play and the incredible Manningham throw.

These weren't just any Super Bowl wins that time will forget. He is etched in SB history.

Plus, Eli's Iron Man streak and the fact he has QBd a premier NFL franchise for so long. We aren't the Tampa Bay Buccaneers here.

There is just no way to tell the history of the NFL without Eli Manning and thats why he should get in.

Of the media

Player A-

2 Super Bowls
2 Super Bowl MVPs
2 SB winning drives
48K yds 320 TD 215 INT
4 Pro Bowls
5 4000 yd seasons
4 30 TD seasons

"Best" season- 4933 yds 29 TD 16 INT wins SB 4-0, MVP, 1219 Yds 9 TD 1 INT. Wins 2 road games and 3 upsets

ESPN HoF rating- 40% chance

Player B-
2 Super Bowls
1 Super Bowl MVP
1 SB winning drive
47K yds 301 TD 160 INT
5 Pro Bowls
4 4000 yd seasons
2 30 TD seasons

"Best" season - 4952 yds 32 TD 9 INT. One and done in playoffs 334 yds 1 TD 1 INT. Upset at home

ESPN HoF rating- 90%

Neither player has achieved a vote for NFL MVP

You really have to split hairs to say one is definately a HoFer and the other isnt.

I would argue that Eli has a slight advantage when looking at the overall facts of the career unbiasedly. He has same SBs. More SB mvps, more YDs, more TDs, more 4000 yd years, more 30 TD years, more important SB wins, has 2 SB winning drives.

In comment 13421333 twostepgiants said:

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Of the media Player A- 2 Super Bowls 2 Super Bowl MVPs 2 SB winning drives 48K yds 320 TD 215 INT 4 Pro Bowls 5 4000 yd seasons 4 30 TD seasons "Best" season- 4933 yds 29 TD 16 INT wins SB 4-0, MVP, 1219 Yds 9 TD 1 INT. Wins 2 road games and 3 upsets ESPN HoF rating- 40% chance Player B- 2 Super Bowls 1 Super Bowl MVP 1 SB winning drive 47K yds 301 TD 160 INT 5 Pro Bowls 4 4000 yd seasons 2 30 TD seasons "Best" season - 4952 yds 32 TD 9 INT. One and done in playoffs 334 yds 1 TD 1 INT. Upset at home ESPN HoF rating- 90% Neither player has achieved a vote for NFL MVP You really have to split hairs to say one is definately a HoFer and the other isnt. I would argue that Eli has a slight advantage when looking at the overall facts of the career unbiasedly. He has same SBs. More SB mvps, more YDs, more TDs, more 4000 yd years, more 30 TD years, more important SB wins, has 2 SB winning drives.

eli only has 3 30+ TD seasons, not 4. eli also has 55 more INTs and only 19 more TDs than ben, despite having played in 14 more games than him. so eli's career TD/INT ration is a lot higher than ben's, and his career passer rating is a lot lower. also, the steelers won the SB in ben's rookie year, not sure you can hold not making MVP against him, given how terrible eli was through most of his rookie season. eli is definitely more durable than ben that's for sure. i'd think they are ranked about even at this point. i imagine ben will be in the top 10 for a number of the all time records by the time he retires.

In comment 13420187 WideRight said:

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The HOF is a commercial enterprise that needs to be relevant - continue to draw attention from fans and the media to promote itself. No better way than to prolong some controversy regarding its selection process. Snubbing Eli fits the bill perfectly.

This is false. For one thing, the Pro Football Hall of Fame is an NPO. For another, they really don't need to generate controversy for attention. The institution itself also doesn't choose its own members.

What an odd conspiracy theory.

don't help his case, IMO. But somehow people just seem to overlook it, it's amazing.

I think the way you conduct yourself should play a role among voters to atleast some extent. They went overboard with hating TO and I would hope some of that is used against Roethlisberger, but I doubt it.

Thanks for proving my point about having to ridiculously split hairs between Ben and Eli



In comment 13421371 japanhead said:

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In comment 13421333 twostepgiants said: Quote: Of the media Player A- 2 Super Bowls 2 Super Bowl MVPs 2 SB winning drives 48K yds 320 TD 215 INT 4 Pro Bowls 5 4000 yd seasons 4 30 TD seasons "Best" season- 4933 yds 29 TD 16 INT wins SB 4-0, MVP, 1219 Yds 9 TD 1 INT. Wins 2 road games and 3 upsets ESPN HoF rating- 40% chance Player B- 2 Super Bowls 1 Super Bowl MVP 1 SB winning drive 47K yds 301 TD 160 INT 5 Pro Bowls 4 4000 yd seasons 2 30 TD seasons "Best" season - 4952 yds 32 TD 9 INT. One and done in playoffs 334 yds 1 TD 1 INT. Upset at home ESPN HoF rating- 90% Neither player has achieved a vote for NFL MVP You really have to split hairs to say one is definately a HoFer and the other isnt. I would argue that Eli has a slight advantage when looking at the overall facts of the career unbiasedly. He has same SBs. More SB mvps, more YDs, more TDs, more 4000 yd years, more 30 TD years, more important SB wins, has 2 SB winning drives. eli only has 3 30+ TD seasons, not 4. eli also has 55 more INTs and only 19 more TDs than ben, despite having played in 14 more games than him. so eli's career TD/INT ration is a lot higher than ben's, and his career passer rating is a lot lower. also, the steelers won the SB in ben's rookie year, not sure you can hold not making MVP against him, given how terrible eli was through most of his rookie season. eli is definitely more durable than ben that's for sure. i'd think they are ranked about even at this point. i imagine ben will be in the top 10 for a number of the all time records by the time he retires.

In comment 13421371 japanhead said:

Quote:

In comment 13421333 twostepgiants said: Quote: Of the media Player A- 2 Super Bowls 2 Super Bowl MVPs 2 SB winning drives 48K yds 320 TD 215 INT 4 Pro Bowls 5 4000 yd seasons 4 30 TD seasons "Best" season- 4933 yds 29 TD 16 INT wins SB 4-0, MVP, 1219 Yds 9 TD 1 INT. Wins 2 road games and 3 upsets ESPN HoF rating- 40% chance Player B- 2 Super Bowls 1 Super Bowl MVP 1 SB winning drive 47K yds 301 TD 160 INT 5 Pro Bowls 4 4000 yd seasons 2 30 TD seasons "Best" season - 4952 yds 32 TD 9 INT. One and done in playoffs 334 yds 1 TD 1 INT. Upset at home ESPN HoF rating- 90% Neither player has achieved a vote for NFL MVP You really have to split hairs to say one is definately a HoFer and the other isnt. I would argue that Eli has a slight advantage when looking at the overall facts of the career unbiasedly. He has same SBs. More SB mvps, more YDs, more TDs, more 4000 yd years, more 30 TD years, more important SB wins, has 2 SB winning drives. eli only has 3 30+ TD seasons, not 4. eli also has 55 more INTs and only 19 more TDs than ben, despite having played in 14 more games than him. so eli's career TD/INT ration is a lot higher than ben's, and his career passer rating is a lot lower. also, the steelers won the SB in ben's rookie year, not sure you can hold not making MVP against him, given how terrible eli was through most of his rookie season. eli is definitely more durable than ben that's for sure. i'd think they are ranked about even at this point. i imagine ben will be in the top 10 for a number of the all time records by the time he retires.

Did Pitt win his rookie year because of him or despite him? He had some horrible playoff games and a bad SB when they won.

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"According to some" is pretty much most of the NFL fan base and storylines from the Colts SB, which is ironic because isn't that what you are pointing to as a factor for Eli not being a lock for the HOF?

No.

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Why is the opinion from other fans and reporters valid for Eli, but are deemed unworthy in other cases?

Really? First of all if I happen to agree with the media as a whole on one subject then I must always agree with them? Really?

The post was simply a rebuttal to the comment that Eli is highly regarded outside of the fans. I offered up a few examples to backup my point. Doing this means I must always agree with the general consensus from fans and the media? Interesting way to look and things but It makes no sense at all.

Not being ranked highly by the media, in NFL voting, etc? Isn't that a example of not being "highly regarded".

It something that is discussed nonstop on BBI. You agree with it too, don't you?

Does this "disrespecr" or lack of appreciation from fans and media mean he doesn't deserve the HOF? No it doesn't especially from fans. But it is a clue on how some of the voters may lean or what they want to see before he gets their vote, isn't it?

Right now I say he's a toss up to get in. I think he need to do more to be a lock. Many agree with that here. I don't think it's a knock on the guy.

You think I underrate him? Fine.

I think many overrrate him such as people here claiming he was one man show for the last SB. Why is that such a problem for you?

It's been a few years. The past few days a some here seems to forget what the defense did in 2011. How they overcame a rash of injuries early. Played much better late. Had a guy worthy of DPOY. Dominated some of the best offenses in the NFL. And, in my opinion, it was the defense that was the primary reason for the SB run. That really shouldn't be a problem for you.

Look at the comments. Many forgot about it like that ray of sunshine Greg in VA. They gave up 23 to lowly WAS was his attempt at making a point. When I reply our QB had 3 picks, 2 in our end that lead to 10 points, they only allows 3YPC and 189 yards passing, that is not a rip on the QB. It's a reply to an ignorant comment about a defensive performance.

And there were others. I replied and tried to back my point about the defense. That's all that is going on here.

The defense played really well. JPP was exceptional

But the reason the Giants took off was that Eli to Cruz and Nicks became the dominant unit in the NFL. They don't even get into playoffs without that unit crushing it on latter half of year.

"It's still a Cruz and Nicks game"

Giants O rolled in Atl and GB.

The Giants played an amazing D in San Fran and a very good one in NE.

The 49ers Offense was terrible and the Gronk hobbled Pats were not a powerhouse. This helped the Gisnts D look more dominant then they probably were.

People act like the Giants were the Ravens in 2000 or Broncos in 2015 and the D just rolled each game and the O really did nothing

This is simply not true

It was more true in 2007 .... the Pats scored with 2 mins left. The D lost it. The game was over, nothing the D could do. The Giants O and Eli needed to do something that never occurred in 41 previous SBs. Deliver a game winning TD drive or lose. Other teams drove down and scored but they could have gotten a FG to tie. Eli needed a TD. He got it. Unprecedented in SB history. That fact alone gives him the Bona Fides to claim his rightful share of the ring. Let alone his Ice Bowl 2 performance

The Giants 2011 scoring defense was the lowest of Super Bowl winners, ranking 25th after allowing an average of 25 points per game. The offense put up over 6000 yds and was ranked 8th in league. It simply false that this was a defensive team. They weren't. The D did come around and play very well in playoffs and we don't win without that. But we were an offensive team. They both earned that ring. Eli put up 1200 yds 9 TD and 1 int in 4 games. It can't be credibly claimed that the defense won this ring.

Here is another example with this last post.

Hey twosteps....Just like the Colts defense in 2006, the Giants defense had injury issues early and improved tremendously. They played great ball in the last 7 games of the year (including the playoffs).

But lets talk about season long rankings shall we? That tells the real story of how they shut down 7 teams in a row (Was, Jets, Dal, ATL, GB, SF and NE).

I love that line about the 2007 team.

They allowed 14 points to the HIGHEST SCORING OFFENSE EVER. Patriots averaged 37 a game. They got 14. The D lost that?

Guess who was #2 all time in point scored? The 2011 Packers. They shut them down too.

10th highest scoring offense ever? 2011 Patriots. Again, shut down by the defense.

Which defense in NFL history beat 2 out of the top 10 scoring offense ever?

The 2011 NYG.

is that you dont have to be the greatest QB of all tieme to get into the hall of fame. Hes not Peyton but IMO he doesnt have to be to get into Canton.

Yes, they were spectacular. They played amazing. But the simple fact is, they needed something that had never occurred before in Super Bowl history in order to win. The score was 14-10 NE with under 2 mins to go. There is no changing that fact. As well as the Defense played that day and that playoffs, they were not winning the Super Bowl on that alone.

By my saying that, this does not diminish the defensive effort. But what some are trying to do is give no credit to the offense and Eli Manning in winning a Super Bowl.

In comment 13421506 KWALL2 said:

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I love that line about the 2007 team. They allowed 14 points to the HIGHEST SCORING OFFENSE EVER. Patriots averaged 37 a game. They got 14. The D lost that? Guess who was #2 all time in point scored? The 2011 Packers. They shut them down too. 10th highest scoring offense ever? 2011 Patriots. Again, shut down by the defense.

The New York Giants football team, offense, defense, special teams, coaching staff won the Super Bowls in 2007 and 2011.

I'm sorry that fact bothers you.

In comment 13421507 KWALL2 said:

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Which defense in NFL history beat 2 out of the top 10 scoring offense ever? The 2011 NYG.

For one unit to carry a football team to the superbowl and win it. The Ravens had a very dominating defense that carried their 2000 team. It is even rarer for one player to carry a team for any length of time. Any player can have a big game, but not completely carry a team for multiple games.

Troy Aikman didn'the carry his team (he had Emmitt smith and Michael Irvin as well as a defense and special teams), Joe Montana didn't carry his team (he had Roger Craig, Jerry rice and a defense. Tom brady for as great as he is doesn't win without help from other players and his coaches. The list goes on and on.

Eli is no exception, but he is not Trent dilfer either. I can think of many playoff games where eli played an integral part in helping his team advance in the playoffs and win the superbowl twice.

2007 divisional game against the Cowboys- the Cowboys were dominating the defense in the first half. They were eating up the clock, running and passing the ball at will on us and we had no answer. They score to go up 14-7 with less than 1 minute left in the half. Eli takes the ball and completely changes the complexion of that game by driving the team to a touchdown before the half and evening the score.

2007 superbowl against the 18-0 Patriots- the Giants are down 10-14 with under 3 minutes left. No field goals will help and Eli drives the team down the field and scores the winning touchdown.

2011 nfc championship against the 49ers- never seen anyone take the beating that eli took that night and yet he kept getting up and threw for over 300 yards and 2 td's to help his team advance to the superbowl.

2011 superbowl against the patriots- again Giants trail 15-17 with under 4 minutes left in the game and again eli drives his team with an incredible pass to Manningham down the sideline to a game deciding touchdown to win the game.

As far as superbowl mvp goes, that is voted by the media (80%) who I am sure some of those voters are hof voters as well and by fans (20%), so they weren`t slighting eli or giving all of the credit to the defense.

Bottom line is this. Eli has the hardware, he has the stats and he has lead his team. When it's all said and done he will get into canton. I am sure he will be debated heavily and he will have his detractors, but it will be very hard to argue his accomplishments.

this many times:

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You think I underrate him? Fine. I think many overrrate him such as people here claiming he was one man show for the last SB. Why is that such a problem for you?

Like I said several times, often on threads like these - I get why people overrate him. He's a great Giant and we are on a Giants fan board. He's a 2 time SB winner and MVP, an Ironman and a good citizen. He's the face of the team.

What I don't get or understand is the need, on nearly every thread discussing Eli, to minimize what he's done, marginalize his career, and deflect his success.

You seem to think the people saying Eli "led" the team are wildly incorrect, but then you go to the opposite end of the spectrum, which makes you exactly the same. You expect those that are championing Eli to see your point, but you don't give a flying shit to see the counterpoint, and on a Giants board, it is strange, if not outright bizarre.

He has a chance to pass more people on the list. He should be in.