Eli Manning HOF viability:
Pros
Top 10 all time in passing yards (#7)
Top 10 all time in completed passes (#8)
Top 10 all time in passing TDs (#7)
Top 10 all time in passing attempts (#7)
Top 10 all time in 4th quarter comebacks (#7)
2 superbowl wins, 2 superbowl MVPs, 8-4 playoff record
Upright citizen
Cons
Low career completion percentage (60%)
Low-ish career passer rating (84)
Two terrible regular seasons (2004, 2013)
We all know many of his playoff performances were out of this world (passer ratings by game: 132, 129, 117, 115, 104, 87, 86, 82, 72, 72, 41, 35), but his career average playoff rating is only 87 largely due to that terrible Carolia loss (35) in 2005 and that nightmarish Eagles loss (41) the year Burress shot himself (2008). So he has had two horrific playoff performances, although somewhat early in his career.
I know football isn't a stats game, eyeball test, and all that, but after another season or two he is knocking at the top 5 in many of those categories above. Now granted he won't make the top 5 in most if not all of those categories. But peep who is in the top 5. He is breathing rarified air. I think he gets in easily, maybe first ballot.
Unless one of them wins a 3rd Super Bowl or an NFL MVP, or retires/injured and stunts their all-time stats.
By game
Eli- 240 yds 1.5 TD and 1.0 Int
Ben- 251 yds 1.6 TD and .86 int
Playoffs-
Ben- 239 yds 1.25 TD and 1.15 int
Eli- 234 yds 1.5 TD and .75 Int
Remember, it's not about who is the "better" player
But is one a HoFer and the other not?
To say Ben is in but Eli isn't is pretty much establishing Ben as the bottom of the HoF barrel and Eli as the top of the non- HoF QB
I also believe the defense was the main factor for both SB wins.
Defending that view requires pointing out some of the holes in the other side especially when many of the comments about the defense weren't true.. How is that any different than the posters on the other side making comments about the defense?
And then you take that and say I have a problem with something else.
Somebody saying a QB "lead a team" vs "carrying the worst SB winner ever" is a lot different isn't it?
Unless one of them wins a 3rd Super Bowl or an NFL MVP, or retires/injured and stunts their all-time stats.
By game
Eli- 240 yds 1.5 TD and 1.0 Int
Ben- 251 yds 1.6 TD and .86 int
Playoffs-
Ben- 239 yds 1.25 TD and 1.15 int
Eli- 234 yds 1.5 TD and .75 Int
Remember, it's not about who is the "better" player
But is one a HoFer and the other not?
To say Ben is in but Eli isn't is pretty much establishing Ben as the bottom of the HoF barrel and Eli as the top of the non- HoF QB
both are HOF caliber imo
That is an enormous exaggeration.
A few of the idiots here may agree with you but it is not true. Not close.
You say a few of the "idiots" might agree, but more often than not it is guys like Uconn, Britt, Go Terps, jcn, djm and others who see it.
If you think those guys are idiots, then it proves my point fairly well.
This one didn't disappoint me either as all the usual arguments come out. Just a couple of quick points and I will let the stat-mongers, Eli-bashers and lovers fight it out.
As someone who travels nearly 50 weeks a year to any/all US cities, Eli is largely not considered a HOF by NFL fans across the country. And while I vehemently disagree with that view, it is what it is but I usually just end the debate with the following statement...
QBs that play for over a decade or so with the same team, and during that career happen to be on the WINNING END of a few superbowls are a lock for the HOF. Lock...
This one didn't disappoint me either as all the usual arguments come out. Just a couple of quick points and I will let the stat-mongers, Eli-bashers and lovers fight it out.
As someone who travels nearly 50 weeks a year to any/all US cities, Eli is largely not considered a HOF by NFL fans across the country. And while I vehemently disagree with that view, it is what it is but I usually just end the debate with the following statement...
QBs that play for over a decade or so with the same team, and during that career happen to be on the WINNING END of a few superbowls are a lock for the HOF. Lock...
Yes, I simply add the adjective, 'immortal.' (lock)..What ISN'T an immortal lock is first ballot..Not sure when he gets in, but he gets in.
1 of 2 of them, like you, also think I have a thing against Beckham too. That's wrong as well and its based only on my reaction to his thing with Norman. I don't go pro-giant, it means I have a problem with our player. That isn't the case.
This board is full of eli comments and threads. Very few do I comment. There have been 2 recently. I made a comment to Terps about his claim that Eli carried the worst team ever to a SB win. Again, part of the reply was pointing out that maybe he's overestimating Eli's contribution.
The really bizarre thing to me is how some get so upset about it and have to reach back and pull out the Cutler reference on any unfavorable comment I make about Eli.
Yes I liked Cutler a lot coming out of college. And posted here he was better than Eli early in his NFL career. When he was on the block, I thought CHI got a deal for him. It was wrong. They did not. The guy didn't improve.
10 years ago, when this was discussed here. I said I would trade Eli for Cutler. As well as Rodgers and Palmer too.
Isn't it time to find something new?
You used to take shots to me about Palmer (especially after the Oak trade). Same kind of stuff. I liked Palmer better than Eli and it caused some kind of problem for you.
It's OK to think players from other teams are better than some on your team isn't it? On a site where football is discussed, it should be OK to post it too.
This one didn't disappoint me either as all the usual arguments come out. Just a couple of quick points and I will let the stat-mongers, Eli-bashers and lovers fight it out.
As someone who travels nearly 50 weeks a year to any/all US cities, Eli is largely not considered a HOF by NFL fans across the country. And while I vehemently disagree with that view, it is what it is but I usually just end the debate with the following statement...
QBs that play for over a decade or so with the same team, and during that career happen to be on the WINNING END of a few superbowls are a lock for the HOF. Lock...
The "same team" qualifier narrows the field to a set that eliminates the conversation. There are very few QBs that have won multiple SBs. There are also very few QBs that have played for the same team for a decade or more. The intersection of that is a very small group. But nothing about it defines HOF-worthiness, especially the same team part.
Eli is right there with Jim Plunkett, IMO. With the necessary statistical adjustment for era and style of play, I think they're very similar candidates. Plunkett isn't in. Eli will wait a long time too.
What Giants fans don't want to recognize is that Eli has never been the top QB in the sport. He hasn't even been top 5 at any point in his career. That's really not HOF-caliber. He's been incredibly durable. He had two amazingly clutch playoff runs. And aside from those two factors, he's a stat compiler who has been inconsistent through much of his career and has a last name that begs comparison to an all-time great, and entered the league with an air of entitlement surrounding him and his refusal to play for the Chargers.
I don't think he's anywhere near the lock that many Giants fans think he is. The HOF is about perception as much as anything else. And outside of Giants fans, I don't get the sense that he's perceived as a HOF QB, even with 2 SBs and 2 SB MVPs.
Beckham is a polarizing guy and I've always seen why people give him shit. The only time I ever come down against people ranting against Beckham is if they think he should be cut "for the good of the team" and idiotic shit like that.
I'm not against criticizing of the team. There are a lot of people here who do it and they have points. Where I get irritated is if it is the blindly moronic, "Fire Person X", "Cut Player X" comments, or if it is a continual agenda against a player or a coach. I'm not going to rant at somebody for saying Eli isn't the best QB in the league, but I'm probably going to do it if he's called a game manager or a primary issue with the team.
But you seem to be perplexed why I'm ranting, while you're doing the same thing - just on the opposite end of the argument. You're against over-exaggeration just like I am.
Eli has been a franchise QB since day 1 on multiple massive Contracts.
Plunkett has a career 72-72 record. Eli has a career 116-95 record as a starter.
Plunkett has 194 Int to 163 TDs. Yes more int then TDs
Eli has 320 TD to 201 Int. That's slot more TDs then int.
Plunkett never made a Pro Bowl. Manning made 5.
The comparison is not even close even accounting for era.
It's not fair nor accurate, but neither of those things really matter, unfortunately.
As far as I know, none of us are HOF voters. I'm just voicing my opinion as to what the perception of Eli is outside of the Giants fanbase. My point about the stat compiling is just that I don't think the counting stats will carry much weight when adjusted for era. I predict that they'll be treated like Blyleven's pitching stats were in baseball.
And the comebacks require context, don't they? You need to be losing in order to stage a comeback.
All I'm saying is that Eli is not nearly as highly regarded by the general public or the general football community as he is by Giants fans. His HOF candidacy is no sure thing, IMO.
Eli is right there with Jim Plunkett, IMO.
I am filing this one away into "My Favorite BBI comments" folder. Thanks for the submission...
The HoF has 8 QB's who played in the 90's (Favre, Moon, Marino, Montana, Young, Aikman, Kelly, Elway), 9 if you count Warner which you should since he won the MVP and Superbowl that season.
So if 9 QB's over a 15 year period made it, and its even more of a passing league now, why wouldn't atleast 6 or 7 get in now over that next 15 year span?
Quote:
outside of 2 suberbowl runs where he played out of his mind, and 2 SB MVPs, eli is just some "stat compiler?" so being 7th all time in 4th quarter comebacks is just some bullshit meaningless stat? coz that stat tells me that eli is one of 10 most clutch QBs ever. i know he's thrown a lot of picks but come on now.
As far as I know, none of us are HOF voters. I'm just voicing my opinion as to what the perception of Eli is outside of the Giants fanbase. My point about the stat compiling is just that I don't think the counting stats will carry much weight when adjusted for era. I predict that they'll be treated like Blyleven's pitching stats were in baseball.
And the comebacks require context, don't they? You need to be losing in order to stage a comeback.
All I'm saying is that Eli is not nearly as highly regarded by the general public or the general football community as he is by Giants fans. His HOF candidacy is no sure thing, IMO.
i understand your point about stats and different eras when it comes to things like total career passing yards, or pass attempts/completions, but when it comes to a stat like 4th quarter comebacks, it's ridiculous for you to devalue him based on the fact that "the only reason he had to come from behind was because the team was losing." that is idiotic.
the top 6 all time in 4th quarter comebacks are: peyton, brady, marino, untias, elway, montana. eli is tied with favre (who had a 19 year long career) for 7th all time. with 2 more 4th quarter comebacks in his career he passes montana on the all time list. that is absolutely a relevant stat that HoF voters will consider. it's basically the "how money is this QB when the chips are down" stat.