Well, maybe not first (as in first round), unless someone the Giants are in love with miraculously falls to them, but I think it would serve them well to draft another very good Safety prospect this year. Sure, the team has a variety of needs, but it seems to me that Safety is often overlooked when discussing those needs.
Landon Collins is a given, a legitimate DPOY candidate, but after him there's nothing but uncertainty. We're all hoping that Darian Thompson comes back strong from his Lis Franc injury, but there's no guarantee that he will. Andrew Adams did yeoman's work filling in for Thompson last year, but do you really want him starting at FS again if Thompson falters?
Nat Berhe and Mykkele Thompson have yet to show that they can stay healthy. Eric Pinkins and Ryan Murphy are PS cast-offs, and although Rahim Moore had a few good years in Denver, he crashed and burned in Houston and Cleveland. This is hardly a group that inspires much confidence.
So, maybe not in the first round - maybe not even in the first three rounds - but at some point in the upcoming draft the Giants should grab a Safety. It's fairly deep at the position and talented prospects should be available to them throughout the weekend, and it's not like they couldn't use the help.
What I do NOT want to do is REACH for an offensive lineman with major question marks.
Later on in the draft, I like Gerry from Nebraska and Nicholson from MSU. Two bigger SS types, Gerry has more range and Nicholson is a huge hitter. Day 3 prospects that can play intense specials and be quality depth.
And if it keeps Andrew Adams off the field, count me in...
Without doing any research, my guess is that it's a little unusual to have that many Safeties with first ground grades, but I don't think it's indicative of any trend. I think it just happens to be a good year for Safeties.
What I do NOT want to do is REACH for an offensive lineman with major question marks.
Me neither.
We got away with Adams playing last season....if he is forced to start again, the opposing defense should go right after him....he was terrible in coverage, late to the play, and basically was just a centerfielder that kept things in front of him....
As for Adrian, he is starting to look fragile for professional football, until he shows otherwise....
So, most definitely, we need a FS/CB maybe with the third round......would love offensive playmakers in the first two rounds, unless a stud on defense(LB, DE) somehow falls....
We got away with Adams playing last season....if he is forced to start again, the opposing defense should go right after him....he was terrible in coverage, late to the play, and basically was just a centerfielder that kept things in front of him....
As for Adrian, he is starting to look fragile for professional football, until he shows otherwise....
So, most definitely, we need a FS/CB maybe with the third round......would love offensive playmakers in the first two rounds, unless a stud on defense(LB, DE) somehow falls....
I disagree. I think Adams was a very pleasant surprise given the learning curve he went through..I expect him to improve and be valuable depth..Reminds me how a meh talent like Ryan Clark, who TC cut, became a good player..
A sixth rounder?? (or later?), just starting says something.
Late starting hurt too. Can we say with certainty (based only a rookie year) that he has no upside?
The second year is considered the year of greatest growth (see Landon) and I think it's possible the kid could be much better. So, for me at least, there would have to be high value to go for a safety.
He seems to be the fastest rising player post-Combine. 4.45 speed at FS. We don't really need him (Giants are very high on DT) but wow....exciting football player. If you are just drafting "good football players" you've got one.
NFL.com Write-Up:
NFL.com Player Comparison: Bob Sanders
What I do NOT want to do is REACH for an offensive lineman with major question marks.
p.s.--There are several prospects who can play both safety and nickel CB and given the injury histories of both Darian Thompson and DRC, those are the prospects who interest me the most come Day 2. Here are five (in no particular order) that would make me happy....
Josh Jones
Marcus Maye
Desmond King
Jourdan Lewis
Marcus Williams
For the full profiles, check out...
THR Talent Board (Drew Boylhart) - ( New Window )
Regular injury recovery risks, only outlier career threat.
Career threat, miracle if he ever plays again.
Still cloudy picture, even at this late date.
Based on the above, you can see the bias which may be a factor in the draft equation.
Giants were, apparently, willing to commit to him as a starter last year. If they have no real worries about his health, there need be no early priority assigned.
If they have real worries, an S becomes a priority.
Since 3 CBs are so common on the field matched against 3 or more WRs, we might try for an athletic 2-fer, our depth at CB leaves us a single injury away from disaster.
Big Blue '56 : 11:37 am : link : reply
In comment 13421822 Doomster said:
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We got away with Adams playing last season....if he is forced to start again, the opposing defense should go right after him....he was terrible in coverage, late to the play, and basically was just a centerfielder that kept things in front of him....
I disagree. I think Adams was a very pleasant surprise given the learning curve he went through..I expect him to improve and be valuable depth..Reminds me how a meh talent like Ryan Clark, who TC cut, became a good player..
It would be great if he did.....but I just didn't see the "plays" where you thought, this guy could be something special.....one int that was a gift.....just 5 passes defended, and I can't remember one.....just seemed to lack football instincts out there....
Safety beyond the top guys, I'm a fan of Budda Baker, Justin Evans, Marcus Williams, and John Johnson.
PS. I won't get into who we drafted instead.
The thing I like about Cam Robinson besides all the measurables, the youth, and experience he brings to the table is that I think he is a relatively smart guy. Not Sheldon Cooper smart, but he is self-aware. He was a little guarded during interviews at the combine, but I liked his answers. The other thing I like about him is that he showed improvement with his technique during the 2016 season. So he is coachable.
The comparisons to Ereck Flowers and DJ Fluker are a red herring. A better comparison is Cordy Glenn, but I think he has a much higher ceiling than Glenn and a higher floor as well (compared to when Glenn was just a prospect). And you know the Giants liked Flowers, Fluker, and Glenn, so chances are they like Robinson plenty (assuming he interviewed well).
Boylhart gives him a 2nd round grade, but he had this to say...
The full profile from Boylhart on Cam Robinson - ( New Window )
Safety probable along with OG, OT, LB, DE, DT, TE.
Swap out an OG for a QB?
A sixth rounder?? (or later?), just starting says something.
The only thing it says is that Darian Thompson, Mykkele Thompson, and Nat Berhe were injured. Adams become the starter by default. There was no one else left.
Can you say with certainty that he does? Are you willing to forgo the chance to draft a superior talent on the off-chance that a UDFA who was no great shakes to begin with gets better in his second year?
I guess you are. Although, where you get the idea that "the second year is considered the year of greatest growth" is beyond me. Just because Landon Collins improved from year one to year two doesn't mean that Adams (or anyone else, for that matter) will, too.
Well, then. I'm glad you're not the GM.
As I wrote in my OP, Adams did yeoman's work filling in as the starting FS, but let's face it...he was the least important cog in an otherwise stellar defensive machine, and as Eric noted in his Scouting Reports, Adams lost playing time to Leon Hall as the season progressed. I'm willing to concede that that could be due to Adams hitting the proverbial rookie wall, but it's still not a good sign.
Opinions vary, but I figure he'll go somewhere on Day 2 (rds. 2 or 3). He had an outstanding pro day after not working out at the Combine (he was still recovering from a broken arm).
If they're looking at secondary I'd rather go CB.
If they're looking at secondary I'd rather go CB.
I've seen him as a low first to low 2nd. I'd do backflips if we got him in round 2.
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Collins is an all-pro, Thompson was the other starter prior to injury, and Adams is a solid backup. All three are young.
If they're looking at secondary I'd rather go CB.
What's great about Josh Jones, Desmond King, Jourdan Lewis, Marcus Maye, and Marcus Williams is that they have enough athleticism to play the slot CB position as well as free safety. So the rookie can back up both Darian Thompson and DRC and be a demon on special teams. And if Jenkins or Apple is hurt, DRC moves outside and the rookie becomes the fulltime nickel CB. So he is indirectly backing up four positions (RCB, LCB, NCB, and FS). That's pretty good value for a Day 2 pick.
I love Jourdan Lewis. In the third that'd be a nice pick up.
A sixth rounder?? (or later?), just starting says something.
Late starting hurt too. Can we say with certainty (based only a rookie year) that he has no upside?
The second year is considered the year of greatest growth (see Landon) and I think it's possible the kid could be much better. So, for me at least, there would have to be high value to go for a safety.
He was an UDFA.
And if it keeps Andrew Adams off the field, count me in...
You act like Adams was a severe liability with no upside. For a rookie UDFA who stepped into a starting role, I think he performed admirably. I'm not suggesting that there's no room for an upgrade there, but I don't think Adams was a major problem. We have a much bigger hole at DT right now, IMO.
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The tackles in this draft scare me. I don't think I would go in that direction.
I love Cam Robinson, like Ryan Ramczyk, and okay with Bolles. But due diligence needs to be done on all three that I'm just not privy to, so who knows. We're not drafting in the top ten anymore, so I'm not expecting Joe Thomas or Orlando Pace. The guy who I'm afraid the Giants might "reach" for is Antonio Garcia. He's been creeping up draft boards.
The thing I like about Cam Robinson besides all the measurables, the youth, and experience he brings to the table is that I think he is a relatively smart guy. Not Sheldon Cooper smart, but he is self-aware. He was a little guarded during interviews at the combine, but I liked his answers. The other thing I like about him is that he showed improvement with his technique during the 2016 season. So he is coachable.
The comparisons to Ereck Flowers and DJ Fluker are a red herring. A better comparison is Cordy Glenn, but I think he has a much higher ceiling than Glenn and a higher floor as well (compared to when Glenn was just a prospect). And you know the Giants liked Flowers, Fluker, and Glenn, so chances are they like Robinson plenty (assuming he interviewed well).
Boylhart gives him a 2nd round grade, but he had this to say...
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Right now for the next level you have to think of Cam as a potential right tackle who could eventually become an excellent left tackle in the mold of the Redskins Trent Williams. He could be that good but there are questions on and off the field that make it hard to trust this kid and select him early in this draft for me. Off field issues seem to be behind him and that’s a good thing but the improvement in his game this year seem to only happen when Cam made the decision half way through the year (in his mind) to declare. That makes me think his work ethic is only monetarily driven. Now that is not necessarily a bad thing except if it’s his only goal. I suspect Cam will be selected earlier than I have him rated. He will work out and impress everyone with his athletic talents and he has improved this year. I also can understand that for most people that there is no reason to think Cam won’t continue to improve except it bothers me that after all the off field issues and lack of learning correct techniques on the field that he has decided to come out early. That to me (in his case) sends a signal of a lack of reality, maturity, and suggest that he still has a problem of listening and following others advice. That was the problem off the field that most likely got him into trouble with guns and drugs. But remember this about Cam, he could eventually be as good as Trent Williams and that’s pretty good.
The full profile from Boylhart on Cam Robinson - ( New Window )
I'm actually a fan of Garcia. I love the nastiness that he brings (he was even getting a little bit nasty at the combine, if memory serves). I wouldn't want him earlier than the 2nd, but I wouldn't be opposed to him at 55.
That said, please, no more Boylhart.
I'm actually a fan of Garcia. I love the nastiness that he brings (he was even getting a little bit nasty at the combine, if memory serves). I wouldn't want him earlier than the 2nd, but I wouldn't be opposed to him at 55.
PS. I won't get into who we drafted instead.
He dove off cliffs in his native Bermuda & received kickoffs with his two hands tied behind his back .
Andrew Adams Played at a very high level last season and will lilely be the starter next year.
Darian Thompson is set to return, may fill Leon Hall's role (3rd safety, nickel).
I wouldnt be mad if we drafted one late but the idea of drafting a safety early, when we are in win now mode, and at the tail end of Eli , is plain irresonsible.
Stop fantasizing about nonsense and focus on winning another Lombardi. Fix the line, Find a TE, Find a RB, get another WR, add to Dline, maybe find linebacker. No need for another safety now.
I think some of you are in denial. It's like you need a new kidney but you're more interested in clearing up your acne.
Andrew Adams Played at a very high level last season and will lilely be the starter next year.
Darian Thompson is set to return, may fill Leon Hall's role (3rd safety, nickel).
I wouldnt be mad if we drafted one late but the idea of drafting a safety early, when we are in win now mode, and at the tail end of Eli , is plain irresonsible.
Stop fantasizing about nonsense and focus on winning another Lombardi. Fix the line, Find a TE, Find a RB, get another WR, add to Dline, maybe find linebacker. No need for another safety now.
First you say that Adams "played at a very high level last season," then you project him to start this year, and then you say that Darian Thompson may fill the role of 3rd Safety/Nickel CB? Now, maybe you do believe that about Adams, but it's clearly debatable. Regardless, do you really want Darian Thompson covering slot receivers?
Now who's fantasizing about nonsense.
What's irresponsible is ignoring the deficiency at the position. What's irresponsible is pretending it doesn't exist, and therefore taking no steps to rectify it. What's irresponsible is not recognizing that the strength of this draft is DBs, and that the opportunity to upgrade the talent in your defensive backfield should present itself throughout the weekend. Failure to to so would be the height of irresponsibility.
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to ignore LB early in drafts.
And if it keeps Andrew Adams off the field, count me in...
As a matter of fact maybe Spagnolo made a mistake in keeping Adams out of the Packer game for Leon Hall who many people want back here ..... Hall may have cost us that game as he played like shit !
You act like Adams was a severe liability with no upside. For a rookie UDFA who stepped into a starting role, I think he performed admirably. I'm not suggesting that there's no room for an upgrade there, but I don't think Adams was a major problem. We have a much bigger hole at DT right now, IMO.
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to ignore LB early in drafts.
And if it keeps Andrew Adams off the field, count me in...
You act like Adams was a severe liability with no upside. For a rookie UDFA who stepped into a starting role, I think he performed admirably. I'm not suggesting that there's no room for an upgrade there, but I don't think Adams was a major problem. We have a much bigger hole at DT right now, IMO.
The only reason he wasn't more of a liability is that he basically did nothing, and was involved in an extremely low volume of plays. The defense basically played with 10 guys out there when he was on the field.
I don't know why everybody has to start with he is a UDFA to rationalize his play. I got it...I'm briefed as to how Giants got him. And none of that really matters once the ball is snapped. If you do nothing as a #1 pick or as a UDFA, you still do nothing.
What I do NOT want to do is REACH for an offensive lineman with major question marks.
I would think that Reese learned his lesson about reaching when he drafted Flowers inbound 1, he made a mistake but he'll never admit it....
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but I would love to trade down with one of the teams at the top of the 2nd round that is itching for a QB and take Buddha Baker.
The Giants aren't going to move around the board to grab a safety. If they trade up it will be for Robinson, Ramczyk, or Bolles. If they trade down it will be to grab Garcia (or perhaps some other OL they like who isn't worth the 23rd pick, but won't be around for the 55th pick). The gulf between the Giants needs at OL and their needs at any other position is wide enough to pass the Starship Enterprise through.
I think some of you are in denial. It's like you need a new kidney but you're more interested in clearing up your acne.
Yeah Jesus. Sorry Mr. Reese. I didn't know you can speak unequivocally for the Giants we have needs for starters at TE/OT/DT/S/RB/LB and could use an extra DE I'm sorry a trade down offends your delicate sensibilities so much but these are the facts:
1) Teams at the top of the 2nd round are QB needy
2) There is good value for QB @ 23 and teams might be worried others might jump in front and get the QB they want. We saw that same thing with Paxton Lynch last year around the same pick.
3) If we were to trade down early round 2 Baker is a value pick there in an area we need.
I've been one of the biggest advocates of getting Oline help dating back to 2012 but I'm not trying to have another Flowers situation and reach because of need when we were a playoff team last year and improving a few positions could make us a super bowl contender. OT is the tops but honestly we don't know how the Giants grade those players and like others have pointed out any OT that will be there at 25 has warts and might not help this year anyway.