I still think we need another CB

In comment 13422499 Torrag said:

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This isn't science, it's NFL draft debate. Embrace it. It's opinion based. I don't couch my vewpoints in absolutes for to do so would be stupid. Hell the pros evaluations are opinion based. That's why they are so often wrong. No one knows how another human being is going to adapt to a new situation which is what these prospects are facing. That doesn't mean we shouldn't engage in the conversation. You like Robinson. I get that. He could be a great player. I wouldn't draft him as high as you would and that's ok too. I think he projects best to RT which devalues his stock a bit and I have concerns about him off the field. That's not a fair analysis?

It's not a question of whether it's fair or not, it's a question of whether it's informed. But it's no less informed than my opinion on Robinson. We are all entitled to our opinions and predictions, I was merely responding to gidiefor's assertion that "we have to come out of the first round with either a CB or ER" because those are the two deepest positions in the draft. That doesn't make sense to me. If all he is really saying is that the Giants should draft the BPA in the first round and he expects it to be a CB than that's how he should've worded it. Otherwise it's just a straw man argument.

I think I approach the draft differently than a lot of BBI. I want the Giants to draft Cam Robinson (for example) because it would mean that the BPA when the Giants were on the clock was exactly what they need most: an offensive tackle. If they were to draft Christian McCaffrey instead I would certainly support the choice because of his big play potential and all the ways he could help the team, but by the same token, I would be worried about the precarious situation along the OL and the fact that the team is running out of opportunities to improve it. And if they drafted Pat Mahomes, I would be excited despite the fact that he won't contribute at all in 2017 because I know that they wouldn't make a choice like that if they didn't have a really high grade on him.

hmmmmm

In comment 13422589 gidiefor said:

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In comment 13422571 Milton said: Quote: My logic--as always--is that the Giants should draft BPA. They should never reach based on need. But if several prospects have equal grades and one of them is an OT, they should definitely take the OT. And all crystal balls aside, can we agree that that would be the right move? It's not like you value your draft board over the one the Giants scouting department is putting together, is it? Yes BPA -- but I have a very hard time believing any OTs will be BPA

I have a hard time believing any of the big three will still be available when the Giants are on the clock.

In '98 I wanted Faneca, but the Giants chose Shaun Williams even though they already had Garnes, Wooten, and Ellsworth, but were very weak along the OL. I supported the choice because they said he was the BPA by a wide margin and in fact was in their top ten. Faneca was being compared to Kevin Gogan, but Williams was compared to Ronnie Lott. And you don't pass up Ronnie Lott for Kevin Gogan no matter how deep you are at safety and shallow along the OL. It didn't work out the way the Giants hoped, but that's the way it goes. Nobody has a crystal ball, not even the professionals with their multimillion dollar scouting department. You can only make decisions based on the data you have at the time.

Flash forward to the 1999 draft and with the Giants still hurting along the OL, I had my eye on Aaron Gibson and LJ Shelton, but I didn't think either would last until the Giants pick. Go figure, they were both still available when the Giants were on the clock, but instead the Giants chose Petitgout. I didn't mind at all that the chose an OL different from the two I liked because at least my two guys were there for the choosing and if the Giants chose Petitgout over them at least he wasn't the consolation prize, he was their first choice.

And that's kind of how I always look at it. I just want to see my guy available when they are on the clock. If they choose someone else, I accept the fact they know better than me. It's when my guy gets taken on slot in front of their pick that I'm bummed. Although it turned out alright when my guy Taylor Lewan was taken one spot in front of OBJ.

And I give them the benefit of the doubt when they say BPA met need and so and so was an easy choice. They've been doing this long enough that they know not to reach. Never take your depth chart into the war room, George Young used to day. Which was overstating it, but we all got the point.

That's a crock. It's a BBI community discussion. As long as the poster has an interest and isn't just trolling they could contribute something to the discussion. The Giants scouts aren't logging in to tell us what the team thinks. You have opinions and share them, as do I and many others.

That's the whole point of having a Giants fan discussion board. So if you want to argue that the team should draft Cam Robinson or anyone else and explain your reasoning don't go railing that other peoples opinions aren't 'informed'. It serves no purpose.

Drafting a guy and counting on him to contribute is risky. And anyone that writes off "4th CB" as an area of low priority didn't understand what they were watching last year.

In comment 13423010 Go Terps said:

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Drafting a guy and counting on him to contribute is risky. And anyone that writes off "4th CB" as an area of low priority didn't understand what they were watching last year.

We did add a CB in free agency, just not a very good one. And, no, we weren't going to spend $30 million to sign Logan Ryan. Sorry.

Will we draft a CB? I think it's very likely. How much they'd contribute is anybody's guess.

"How much they'd contribute is anybody's guess."

Exactly. I'd just as soon be in a position where we didn't have to guess.

In comment 13423039 Go Terps said:

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"How much they'd contribute is anybody's guess." Exactly. I'd just as soon be in a position where we didn't have to guess.

How much a veteran would contribute would be anybody's guess, too.

and begin coaching him up. If one of ours goes down, be prepared for some on the job training. The CB pick of 2017 is really about the future, perhaps replacing DRC.

In comment 13422911 Torrag said:

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That's a crock. It's a BBI community discussion. As long as the poster has an interest and isn't just trolling they could contribute something to the discussion. The Giants scouts aren't logging in to tell us what the team thinks. You have opinions and share them, as do I and many others. That's the whole point of having a Giants fan discussion board. So if you want to argue that the team should draft Cam Robinson or anyone else and explain your reasoning don't go railing that other peoples opinions aren't 'informed'. It serves no purpose.

You completely misunderstood me.

Need picks. You guys want to pick guys like Njoku (all athlete, who drops balls and is still learning the position) because we see teams that have guys like Gronk, Graham, Olsen and Jordan Reed. You guys want to pick Zach Cunningham (questionable tackler, apparently is easily blocked and pass rush ability that is just not evident) and Jarrad Davis (can't seem to stay on the field and plays a position we just drafted a promising player to fill the position he is best at) because we play against guys like Kuechly, Sean Lee, and Vontez Burfict. And you want us to draft a guy with hardly any tape to speak of and injury in Ryan Ramczyk, and other tackles which would push Flowers over to a position he has NEVER played before. All because we happen to have 3 good corners.

This is THE best draft for corners ever and given how there might be 4 possible QBs (Watson, Kizer, Mahomes, Trubisky), we have a chance to grab a truly blue chip corner.

I love Haason Reddick for this team. I am somewhat intrigued by Njoku because of his athletic ability. I like McCaffrey, I like Cam Robinson. But if any of these top flight corners falls to where the Giants pick, I would be ecstatic with the pick. Fuck needs. And as mentioned before, we DO have plenty of need at corner with DRC almost guaranteed to miss time (especially important time like the playoffs), his contract almost being up and the drop off after Apple. Another great corner to add to this D line and our corps of LBs that can suddenly cover? We wouldnt need to rely on our offense putting up huge numbers every game.

The need stuff NEEDS to stop. We finally started building a damn good squad through the draft and people worrying about shit like drafting the same position a couple years in a row...hell even 3.

makes a lot of sense. Drafting a corner high gives us needed depth and is a hedge against DRC being injured or leaving in 2018.
I'd be very happy with a guy like Desmond King from Iowa. Can play corner, safety and be a return guy.

In the later rounds of the draft. Not to worried.

of helping at Safety would be a windfall.

Spags would the most fortunate DC in the league...

We already had three good corners.

Depth in Draft for this critical position of CB means if there is CB at RD1 you think could be a Blue chipper you grab him and then there is a CB at RD 4 who you think has promise you grab him as well.

Some things to keep in mind:

1) Last year's draft seems like a very good one. We need one more just like it so in Eli's last year's we have many ways to win.


2) We were a close 11 win team. Razor close. Which can revert to the mean in the tougher schedule ahead. And in NFL terms we were fortunate on injuries last year.

3) We have a lot of needs and we have a lot of cap room we need for OBJ and Collins and we have some recent starters who could leave ( Pugh and DRC)

All in all we need a very good draft for the three to five years ahead.

Selecting into the particular strengths of each draft for the next 3 years matters a lot

We did it at LB for years in the 80s. OLB wasn't a need the year we drafted LT...nor was it really the year we drafted Banks.

As many others have posted above, if this team wants to beat offenses like the Packers (and Patriots?) in the playoffs, CB is always a need.

And next year DRC is likely gone, would be nice to have another stud CB ready to step in along with JJ and Apple

In comment 13424781 mfsd said:

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We did it at LB for years in the 80s. OLB wasn't a need the year we drafted LT...nor was it really the year we drafted Banks. As many others have posted above, if this team wants to beat offenses like the Packers (and Patriots?) in the playoffs, CB is always a need. And next year DRC is likely gone, would be nice to have another stud CB ready to step in along with JJ and Apple

On the other hand, the 80's ended with the Giants going OL with their first two picks in both '88 and '89 with the result being a Super Bowl victory in 1990 (technically 1991). They committed to fixing the OL and it paid off.

In comment 13424917 Milton said:

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In comment 13424781 mfsd said: Quote: We did it at LB for years in the 80s. OLB wasn't a need the year we drafted LT...nor was it really the year we drafted Banks. As many others have posted above, if this team wants to beat offenses like the Packers (and Patriots?) in the playoffs, CB is always a need. And next year DRC is likely gone, would be nice to have another stud CB ready to step in along with JJ and Apple On the other hand, the 80's ended with the Giants going OL with their first two picks in both '88 and '89 with the result being a Super Bowl victory in 1990 (technically 1991). They committed to fixing the OL and it paid off.

Yup very good point. The ultimate question is, do the Giants have conviction there are OL prospects of the quality needed to upgrade our OL? I'm not the draftnik several other good posters are here, but the chatter seems to be this draft is very strong at CB, RB, TE, and perhaps DE...hence the thought of drafting where there is talent available, whether it's our primary need or not