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Anakim! Ramzyck is visiting NYG today

est1986 : 4/11/2017 9:16 am
Just in..

Quote:

Dan Duggan& #8207; @DDuggan21
Giants doing their due diligence on the top tackles this week

Kimberley A. Martin& #8207; @KMart_LI
Wisconsin OL Ryan Ramczyk is visiting the #Giants today...
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JonC  
ZogZerg : 4/11/2017 10:21 am : link
I don't know. Flowers was recently drafted in the top 10 and he's struggling. Wasn't he suppose to be good? I think there were a few other highly rated guys struggling as well.

ZZ  
JonC : 4/11/2017 10:23 am : link
I get that, but for me that reinforces the lack of quality OL prospects in recent drafts.

The quality is gone very early, beyond that you're often looking at prospects better suited to RT. What NYG can't afford is to draft Ramzyck or Cam and be stuck with two RTs moving forward.
NO to Ramczyk  
GiantGod : 4/11/2017 10:25 am : link
Chronic Degenerative hip condition requiring future hip replacement. DAvid Njoku, Taco Charlton, Derek Barnett, Malik MCdowell,Dalvin Cook
RE: RE: the hip issue  
UConn4523 : 4/11/2017 10:29 am : link
In comment 13423533 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13423528 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


is a massive red flag for me, potentially more so than someone coming off of knee surgery.

I'll trust the Giants judgement if Ramzyck is the pick, and iirc he did play through it which shows me he's tough as nails, but its a legitimate concern that needs to be meticulously looked into.



Not sure why. He played through it in the Sugar Bowl and dominated.


Not sure why you'd meticulously look into hip surgery? I get you are a fan and he's good, but take a step back from him being a Badger and insert any other school. Its absolutely a concern.
I'd rather gamble that a Dawkins,Moton,Lamp, Garcia  
TheMick7 : 4/11/2017 10:30 am : link
or Feeney drops to our 2nd round pick. I think that w/the #1 someone(s) will fall to us, be it RB, QB, DL or hopefully,TE which will be the BPA.
also Zach Cunningham  
GiantGod : 4/11/2017 10:30 am : link
maybe even Jabril Peppers. One of the above will be there and I like them all better than RR.
I'd be happy with Ram, Bolles, Robinson, or Lamp at #23  
PatersonPlank : 4/11/2017 10:36 am : link
.
RE: Guys, who is locked up on our OL beyond this year?  
GMen23 : 4/11/2017 10:42 am : link
In comment 13423559 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
What about beyond next year? People keep focusing on who is replacing who at what position this year. It isn't about this year. We could be going into next year with only 2 lineman locked up maybe 3. A lot of people assume Pugh will be re-signed. The OG market has been insane. Pugh may cost over $10 million per year. Fluker is on a one year deal. Richburg is up soon. Flowers and Jerry may be the only sure things on our line in a year or two.

And to bring up the way these linemen are perceived, the "sure thing" linemen have been anything but. Ramczyk seems like the real deal. Yes, he has concerns but that is why these players are being brought in. Wisconsin has had a great track record with OL. I am all for the Giants doing their due diligence with these linemen. These guys are being pushed down for one reason or another in a deep draft. We should consider ourselves lucky. How many times do we get annoyed becaused the Giants reached for a linemen? Now, the oppositd is happening. Quality linemen are dropping to us.


I'm with you Robbie. 30th ranked rushing offense. Right now we are bringing the same OL back, with the exception of Newhouse out, and Fluker, in. I liked him coming out of college, and hope a winning locker room resurrects his career. But is that really enough improvement for arguably the achilles heel unit of the team?

However, I'm not thinking about future contracts as much as upgrading 2017.

I would not be disappointed if after 22 picks, an OL was on our top remaining tier.
also keep in mind  
UConn4523 : 4/11/2017 10:51 am : link
that in 2015 we were 19th in rushing so I think we are somewhere in that 22-25 range since we finished last season way better than where we started.

If we can crack that top 20 in rushing (which will have as much to do with Perkins and Co with no more plodding Jennings as it will improved OLine play) our offense will be in a lot better shape. We also didn't have a + blocking TE or WR on the team the past 2 years.

That's why I don't really want to force an OL pick at 23. If its Ramzyk and his medicals check out, go nuts. But I wouldn't pass up on a playmaker at another position out of fear the OL will stink.
Forrest Lamp?  
jeff57 : 4/11/2017 10:51 am : link
My favorite OL in the draft. Even though he won't be a LT.
I am thinking about this year too  
robbieballs2003 : 4/11/2017 10:56 am : link
If not for anything else but competition for these current players. If a rookie wins the job this year then awesome.

However, I brought up the future because that is what teams have to do. Lets say we don't bring in a lineman this year. How will we repatch our OL expecially if Pugh prices himself out of our price range for him? What if Flowers does progress? We would be putting ourselves in a no win situation because not only would we have to spend a lot in FA or valuable resources in next year's draft there is no guarantee that we can accomplish all that in one year.

Look at this offseason and last offseason. Quality OL are becoming harder to find. And when you do find them you are paying for them with either a lot of money or high picks. I think if we do not get a potential starter out of this draft for the future we could be looking at mission impossible next year. Now, my situation may be the worst case but that is how GMs need to think. And I hope the Giants are doing the same.
UConn  
JonC : 4/11/2017 10:57 am : link
Yep.
That fact that none of these guys are a sure fire top 10 OLT  
est1986 : 4/11/2017 10:58 am : link
Could prove to be a blessing in disguise..

One could fall to 23..

Have to trust the Giants and their ability to scout these big guys.

If they pick a OL at 23 it is because they think he is a very good player, so we should all be very excited since we all know this team needs OL help.
RE: also keep in mind  
Milton : 4/11/2017 11:14 am : link
In comment 13423597 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
That's why I don't really want to force an OL pick at 23.
I don't think anyone wants them to force an OL pick at 23 (or any other position for that matter), but it will be great if an OL is BPA when they are on the clock, because OL is by far the team's biggest need. Fingers crossed.
RE: ZZ  
AcidTest : 4/11/2017 11:26 am : link
In comment 13423578 JonC said:
Quote:
I get that, but for me that reinforces the lack of quality OL prospects in recent drafts.

The quality is gone very early, beyond that you're often looking at prospects better suited to RT. What NYG can't afford is to draft Ramzyck or Cam and be stuck with two RTs moving forward.


Agreed. I wouldn't hate the pick, but he is coming off the hip surgery, and only played one year of D1 football. Robinson has character issues, and reminds some of Flowers. Boles would probably be the best of the three because his feet are fantastic, but he needs to get stronger. He will also likely be gone by #23.

More than likely, Reese will simply draft another developmental OL on day three. That has worked out about as well as all his developmental QBs, see Petrus, Mosley, McCants, Brewer, etc. But that is probably what will happen. Look for Julie'n Davenport, Dieugot Joseph, or Kareem Are on day three.
RE: RE: also keep in mind  
TheMick7 : 4/11/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13423619 Milton said:
Quote:
In comment 13423597 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


That's why I don't really want to force an OL pick at 23.

I don't think anyone wants them to force an OL pick at 23 (or any other position for that matter), but it will be great if an OL is BPA when they are on the clock, because OL is by far the team's biggest need. Fingers crossed.


That, in a nutshell, is the quandary of BPA What's on Jerry's board as a BPA might not be on any BBI'ers BPA board. We've seen in past drafts that the pick the Giants said was BPA wasn't one that the majority thought should be. And, coincidentally, also seemed to fit need, although we've been told that was just a coincidence. So, especially at #23,we could take any one of 15-20 players as a BPA!
Giants don't force any top 25 picks..  
est1986 : 4/11/2017 11:32 am : link
The take who they truly believe is BPA for the team.
So if its a OT  
est1986 : 4/11/2017 11:37 am : link
We should be happy. Pugh was really good at RT Rookie year and he wasn't nearly as talked about as this "bad group/class of OL"... And he went higher than 23 I think.
I'm hoping the Giants don't have the grade on these OT's to draft one  
Torrag : 4/11/2017 11:38 am : link
Because imo we'd be leaving significantly better talent on the board to do so. That's taking the scenic route to building a championship roster.
After reviewing the SY's draft analysis from the past 2 years  
chuckydee9 : 4/11/2017 11:59 am : link
I have no trust in Giants being able to identify good OL.. They should reach out to him and access the OL...Giants are great at drafting WR, and pretty good at drafting DT and DEs but they suck at drafting OL.. May be its a league wide thing.. but we have put in as many draft resources as any team in the league and have one of the worst OL in the league to show for it... I'd rather trust JR drafting from a super strong group of DE, CB and DT or even RB rather than draft a OL..
RE: After reviewing the SY's draft analysis from the past 2 years  
est1986 : 4/11/2017 12:18 pm : link
In comment 13423677 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
I have no trust in Giants being able to identify good OL.. They should reach out to him and access the OL...Giants are great at drafting WR, and pretty good at drafting DT and DEs but they suck at drafting OL.. May be its a league wide thing.. but we have put in as many draft resources as any team in the league and have one of the worst OL in the league to show for it... I'd rather trust JR drafting from a super strong group of DE, CB and DT or even RB rather than draft a OL..


Love Sy'56 but he is no Marc Ross/Jerry Reese and company
The arrow  
ryanmkeane : 4/11/2017 12:49 pm : link
had been pointing up for Reese and Ross as of the past few seasons and they had a great draft last year. I'm hopeful this class will net another 2-3 high quality players for the roster moving forward.
RE: RE: RE: also keep in mind  
Milton : 4/11/2017 12:58 pm : link
In comment 13423638 TheMick7 said:
Quote:
We've seen in past drafts that the pick the Giants said was BPA wasn't one that the majority thought should be. And, coincidentally, also seemed to fit need, although we've been told that was just a coincidence.
I think it's a case of not just one guy being BPA, but a "row" of guys who carry the same grade (or close enough). And then they pick the prospect from the row who matches their greatest need.

Last year they were supposedly targeting Floyd and Conklin but ultimately settled for Apple. Those are three very different positions.
Normally  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/11/2017 1:33 pm : link
the top OL tackles are going top 10. So these guys going at 23 is already factoring in the fact that they aren't top of the draft material. That doesn't mean that they aren't first rounders in this or another draft.

Boylehart and others love this guy. If he checks out, he has to be part of the conversation. Getting an inferior/more risky player in the second or third is still getting an inferior/more risky player.

As a fan, I always want the splashy player. That said, depending upon how the draft falls, I would have no problem with him. At 23, the Giants have to consider all the options as a lot is completely out of their control. The last thing they can do is focus on a particular position. Got to take the best that is available.
RE: RE: After reviewing the SY's draft analysis from the past 2 years  
chuckydee9 : 4/11/2017 2:00 pm : link
In comment 13423709 est1986 said:
Quote:
In comment 13423677 chuckydee9 said:


Quote:


I have no trust in Giants being able to identify good OL.. They should reach out to him and access the OL...Giants are great at drafting WR, and pretty good at drafting DT and DEs but they suck at drafting OL.. May be its a league wide thing.. but we have put in as many draft resources as any team in the league and have one of the worst OL in the league to show for it... I'd rather trust JR drafting from a super strong group of DE, CB and DT or even RB rather than draft a OL..



Love Sy'56 but he is no Marc Ross/Jerry Reese and company


I was exaggerating a bit.. because JR and them know how to find WR.. Steve Smith, Nicks, OBJ are all awesome picks.. but every OL they have picked has under performed.. Dallas used the same amount of resources as we did and they have 3 all-pro players.. We have none and outside of Pugh's last year no one has even played at a top 5-10 level ..
RE: Giants don't force any top 25 picks..  
DelZotto : 4/11/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13423643 est1986 said:
Quote:
The take who they truly believe is BPA for the team.


And if you believe that look under your Pillow, the Tooth Fairy is alive and well.
This  
Bluesbreaker : 4/11/2017 2:59 pm : link
Nothing wrong with due diligence.
Klaatu : 9:47 am : link : reply
And for a team that fielded the worst pair of starting OTs in the league last year, not checking out the top-rated OTs in the draft would be the height of incompetence - regardless of whether or not you think they're worth consideration as 1st-round picks.
The hip stuff is probably overblown.  
allstarjim : 4/11/2017 4:27 pm : link
It's not a chronic, degenerative condition. He had a tear in the labrum, it happens... it's corrected and he'll be ready for training camp. He played on the injury almost the entire season and performed well enough to be a first team All-American.

It's not that big of a deal. People are treating this injury like it's Jaylon Smith's nerve issue last year or the Achilles' injury for Sidney Jones this year. It's not that serious. Sure, anytime you go under the knife there's some concern, but he already had the surgery on June 5th, is ahead of schedule in recovery, and even performed on the bench and did a fine job considering he was less than two months removed from the surgery. Again, guy had arthroscopic surgery to clean up an issue he played at an All-American level through for most of the season, and will be ready by training camp. He is a legit first rounder, and would be even in other years in which the OT class is stronger.
That should've read  
allstarjim : 4/11/2017 4:28 pm : link
that he had the surgery on JANUARY 5th, obviously.
I don't think anyone is comparing it to nerve damage  
UConn4523 : 4/11/2017 4:35 pm : link
but hip issues have derailed careers before and its a bad one to have when you play a position where you need to plant, pivot, flex and use all your core power to ward off defenders.

If the medicals check out I'm good with it, but to say it shouldn't be a concern is foolish.
RE: Plus, you've already got Hart  
mrvax : 4/11/2017 4:41 pm : link
In comment 13423515 JonC said:
Quote:
in hand. They need an OT prospect to push Flowers and Fluker.


I'm thinking the Giants need to replenish a few Oline guys after this season. Taking day 2 & 3 prospects and coaching them up for a year.

I can't see a rookie starting in 2017 unless injury.
Re Ramczyk in First Rd.  
HugeS : 4/11/2017 4:44 pm : link
Hip injuries, inexperience, and questions of football passion aside, Ramczyk was getting physically whooped by the players considered the top NFL prospects in the Big Ten. Taco Charlton made his NFL money on him and Malik McDowell abused him enough that Wisconsin needed to keep extra blockers on Ramczyk's side. Ramczyk struggled in his pass sets against the most athletic players in the conference and the NFL is chock full of explosive edge athletes and size speed behemoths. If he starts on the right side is he really a better prospect than Cam Robinson who's bigger and stronger with slightly slower feet? If he starts on the left side does he have the polish to close the gap with the raw but athletically far more gifted Bolles?
idk if he'll still be on the board  
BlackburnBalledOut : 4/11/2017 4:45 pm : link
but I want either him or Robinson. Bolles is 25 so his "prime years" he will stillbe developing as an NFL player.
RE: I don't think anyone is comparing it to nerve damage  
allstarjim : 4/11/2017 4:50 pm : link
In comment 13424251 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
but hip issues have derailed careers before and its a bad one to have when you play a position where you need to plant, pivot, flex and use all your core power to ward off defenders.

If the medicals check out I'm good with it, but to say it shouldn't be a concern is foolish.



That's true, and of course you do your diligence, but there isn't one piece of reporting or information out there to have this level of concern. I've actually read about hip labrum surgery repair. The surgery was already done and was successful, and it was reported even that the damage that was repaired was not even as bad as initially thought, and that Ramczyk is ahead of his recovery timetable. This isn't the kind of injury that threatens careers. It's not a Dennis Pitta type of injury, for instance, where he broke and dislocated his hip (and he came back from it). This is a relatively minor arthroscopic surgical fix that has already been completed successfully.

I found the following article very helpful in reading about his injury. Ramczyk has also described it as an "impingement" which is referenced in the article as well:


The Story Behind Hip Labral Tears in Athletes - ( New Window )
RE: Re Ramczyk in First Rd.  
allstarjim : 4/11/2017 4:51 pm : link
In comment 13424272 HugeS said:
Quote:
Hip injuries, inexperience, and questions of football passion aside, Ramczyk was getting physically whooped by the players considered the top NFL prospects in the Big Ten. Taco Charlton made his NFL money on him and Malik McDowell abused him enough that Wisconsin needed to keep extra blockers on Ramczyk's side. Ramczyk struggled in his pass sets against the most athletic players in the conference and the NFL is chock full of explosive edge athletes and size speed behemoths. If he starts on the right side is he really a better prospect than Cam Robinson who's bigger and stronger with slightly slower feet? If he starts on the left side does he have the polish to close the gap with the raw but athletically far more gifted Bolles?


I thought the same about Taco when I initially watched, but Taco did not dominate Ramczyk like I thought he did upon re-watching. Ramczyk actually handled Taco pretty well, Taco made much more plays when he was matched up against other Wisconsin linemen.
What kills me about this...  
Dan in the Springs : 4/11/2017 5:28 pm : link
is that they are trying to bring in competition at Tackle now, but from all indications they had no interest in competition at LT last year. Several reports had UFA LT told that they were being looked at for RT, not LT.

While I can't confirm this is true, it sure looks like there was no sense of urgency to get LT competition last year. Frustrating.
I know  
allstarjim : 4/11/2017 5:39 pm : link
I guess last year you are a lot more hopeful in a year 1 to year 2 development from Flowers than you are when he's had 2 full years and still needs to grow.

I'm not giving up on him. If they took Ramczyk and he doesn't win the LT job, that's just fine. He could still end up being the best RT on the team, and don't forget there is only one long-term starting tackle on this team to begin with. Fluker is on a one-year deal and Hart has through the 2018 season and that's it. We need guys, both right now to hopefully win a spot, for depth, and for developmental for 2019 and beyond.

I do think if Reese hits a homerun at OT in this draft, and that guy can come in and solidify one of those tackle positions at pass protect and run block at a high level, it's as much a boon to this offense as the addition of Brandon Marshall or a RB. To me it's much more important than adding another playmaker at tight end.
The Giants also  
YANKEE28 : 4/11/2017 6:23 pm : link
had Storm Norton in from Toledo. He played left tackle in college but probably ends up on the right side.

He wasn't at the Combine, but at his Pro Day he had an 85 inch wingspan and arms over 35 inches. 6' 7" 1/4 and 307 pounds.

He is a Day 3 draft pick. On tape he is noticeable on some Kareem Hunt runs, looks aggressive but also like he needs to get stronger.

Developmental prospect with some tools to work with.
Agree Dan  
HugeS : 4/11/2017 6:39 pm : link
It seems ass backwards to last year punt on a draft unusually high in top OT talent and cost controlled veteran competition only to jump in this year when the pool of free agents is mediocre and market inflated while the tackles coming out of the draft are unusually poor. None of Bolles, Ramczyk, or Robinson are even close to the top 4 guys last year as prospects. Not convinced any of these three are even on a level to immediately challenge Flowers let alone dramatically improve Eli's pass pro. Maybe Robinson or Ramczyk can beat out Hart/Fluker? Bolles projects as more of a pure left tackle, but is he worth moving Flowers to the right side? Seems like alot of draft capital to invest for not a whole lot of gain in a draft loaded with talent at other impact positions.
Our recent record with drafting "developmental OL" players is poor  
PatersonPlank : 4/11/2017 6:42 pm : link
All our lineman have been top picks, Hart aside. Hart was a rookie who only played due to Newhouse's injury. We have drafted a lot of players like that "Pancake" Hermann guy, Brewer, McCants, Petrus, and Moseley.

If we are serious about the line, and we better well should be, we need to take a player in Rd 1 or Rd 2.
Chris Snee had to retire early because of his hip injuries  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/11/2017 6:59 pm : link
Of course it's a concern.
Imo Ramczyk would go top 15 if not for the hip and the one year  
yatqb : 4/11/2017 8:56 pm : link
at D1. To me he's that good. If he checks out physically for us (and I assume we brought him in to check on that) I think he'd be a steal at 23. Imo he could play any one of LT, RG or RT for us and do a better job than anyone we have playing at those positions currently.
If anything  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/11/2017 9:12 pm : link
the OL are going to go higher than they deserve due to the lack of quality OL.

What many of you can't seem to grasp is that any OL worth #23 will be long gone thus forcing a reach if you insist on picking an OL.

Is that what we really want? To leave talent on the board?

If you insist on OL that's what you are proposing.
OL  
Archer : 4/11/2017 9:41 pm : link
For those who seem to like Robinson watch Bama vs. Texas A&M. or Bama vs. Tenn

Myles Garrett and Derek Barnett constantly beat him with speed rushes.

Robinson has a problem with his set up. Reminds me a lot of Flowers. I do not think he plays OT in the pros.

Giant ability to pick upper tier Olinemen is clearly in question  
Jimmy Googs : 4/12/2017 12:08 am : link
but I just don't drink the cool-aid that this draft is that much different than most on overall quality. Over-analyze what you want.

We need to add some value, depth and resources into the Oline from this draft no matter what. If you think differently, you are on drugs...
RE: OL  
Milton : 4/12/2017 2:02 am : link
In comment 13424570 Archer said:
Quote:
For those who seem to like Robinson watch Bama vs. Texas A&M. or Bama vs. Tenn

Myles Garrett and Derek Barnett constantly beat him with speed rushes.

Robinson has a problem with his set up. Reminds me a lot of Flowers. I do not think he plays OT in the pros.
Here is some analysis of Robinson's game against Myles Garrett from...
The Film Room (Brett Kollmann) - ( New Window )
Robinson  
Dragon : 4/12/2017 2:29 am : link
At 23 is a great pick for me what is he lacking to help from day one at OT or OG depending on how the other linemen on this team perform? Let's be clear no one is going to play a perfect season at any of our OL positions but we do need more compitition. Pugh our reported best OL is not a special player but he seems to have a great rep for someone who is nothing special. Taking an injured player at 23 in a talent rich draft makes no sense even at a position of need.
Ramczyk is visiting.....  
johnboyw : 4/12/2017 9:42 am : link
Like it that they are doing their homework on each of the three tackles who should all be first round picks in case everyone else they like is gone before they pick. That said, each has some warts and may not be a great value at #23. And none may be any better than Flowers right now.
Agree with TheMick7 above in that they might get better value in round 2 with Taylor Moton, Dorian Johnson or Dion Dawkins. All three could come right in and compete.
Also think they'd be better off finding an experienced LT to come in and compete with Flowers. A guy with starting experience who would really push him.
I think we should remember that all  
Jersey55 : 4/12/2017 4:14 pm : link
of the starting O linemen throughout the league weren't all first round picks, these guys were drafted by people who knew how to scout O line talent and then coached up to be starters by good O line coaches...
RE: After reviewing the SY's draft analysis from the past 2 years  
Jersey55 : 4/12/2017 4:19 pm : link
In comment 13423677 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
I have no trust in Giants being able to identify good OL.. They should reach out to him and access the OL...Giants are great at drafting WR, and pretty good at drafting DT and DEs but they suck at drafting OL.. May be its a league wide thing.. but we have put in as many draft resources as any team in the league and have one of the worst OL in the league to show for it... I'd rather trust JR drafting from a super strong group of DE, CB and DT or even RB rather than draft a OL..

the Cowboys went into the draft a few years ago to fix their O line and did a really good job so it proves that it can be done if the team is sincere about it...
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