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NFT: Mets at Phillies Game 3 SWEEEEP!!

ZGiants98 : 4/12/2017 3:54 pm
Mets Lineup

Michael Conforto – CF
Asdrúbal Cabrera – SS
Yoenis Céspedes – LF
Jay Bruce – RF
Neil Walker – 2B
Lucas Duda – 1B
José Reyes – 3B
Travis d’Arnaud – C
Matt Harvey – RHP
Phillies Lineup

Cesar Hernandez – 2B
Howie Kendrick – LF
Odubel Herrera – CF
Maikel Franco – 3B
Michael Saunders – RF
Tommy Joseph – 1B
Cameron Rupp – C
Freddy Galvis – SS
Vince Velasquez – P

Granderson scratched last minute for Conforto. No word why yet.

LGM!!
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Cabrera  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 11:15 am : link
almost certainly will be back, I wouldn't write off Duda just yet. Smith needs to have a strong season otherwise it's a major step back at a key position. Odds are Duda's gone but a big season + Smith a "meh" season and I wouldn't be so sure.
Walker  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 11:17 am : link
very possibly will be back. They have actively tried to lock him up. Cecchini with a big season could make the decision moot but for right now there is no clear "every day 2b" for 2018 in the system IF Cecchini doesn't have a big year (prove he can play MLB caliber defense). I don't view TJ Rivera as an MLB regular on a contender.
Sewald  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 11:18 am : link
is expected to be demoted, Conforto staying for now
Can Flores be our every day 2B?  
spike : 4/13/2017 11:20 am : link
Cabrera - Rosario - Flores/Cheech - Smith or Duda. TDA

Cespedes - Lagares - Conforto
Fangraphs  
sshin05 : 4/13/2017 11:22 am : link
making a strong argument for Conforto to play more often, can't disagree with what they are saying.
Link - ( New Window )
RE: Can Flores be our every day 2B?  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 11:22 am : link
In comment 13426644 spike said:
Quote:
Cabrera - Rosario - Flores/Cheech - Smith or Duda. TDA

Cespedes - Lagares - Conforto


It doesn't appear the Mets view Flores as a 2b. Looks like 3b/1b going forward. He has not graded well (-6 DRS) career at 2b.
They should have a lot of payroll flexibility  
spike : 4/13/2017 11:24 am : link
With all these vets coming off the books along with Wrights possible retirement.

Good time to extend Degrom and maybe Harvey?
If Flores  
Metnut : 4/13/2017 11:26 am : link
can hit eventually hit righties you can deal with him at second IMO. If he can't then he's just the super platoon option vs LHP that he is now.

Murphy never graded well at 2B. Walker didn't either (with the big exception of last year).
RE: They should have a lot of payroll flexibility  
Metnut : 4/13/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13426656 spike said:
Quote:
With all these vets coming off the books along with Wrights possible retirement.

Good time to extend Degrom and maybe Harvey?


Let's dream and sign Manny Machado to play 3B for the next decade. Machado and Rosario on the same side of the IF would be fucking awesome.
RE: If Flores  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13426663 Metnut said:
Quote:
can hit eventually hit righties you can deal with him at second IMO. If he can't then he's just the super platoon option vs LHP that he is now.

Murphy never graded well at 2B. Walker didn't either (with the big exception of last year).


The problem is WIlmer has been absolutely awful vs. RHP. This season he's 0-5 with 2 k's, last season wRC+ of 75. Not "okay", truly awful.
RE: Sewald  
arcarsenal : 4/13/2017 11:28 am : link
In comment 13426639 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
is expected to be demoted, Conforto staying for now


Makes sense.

Sewald doesn't do it for me. I don't trust him at all.

We need Familia back badly to alleviate the BP strain, though.

Blevins, Salas, and Reed all seem to be guys we can trust.. Robles is always going to have some Jekyll & Hyde to him I think. Would like to see Smoker establish himself more this year. Edgin isn't a guy I'd want to use in an important spot.
,  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 11:28 am : link
Morosi

TORONTO -- The Dodgers and Brewers have remained in contact about a possible trade involving Ryan Braun, sources say, and it is not difficult to see why.
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 11:29 am : link
After foolishly giving away Ynoa I'd like to see Sandy pull off a deal for Clayton Blackburn #Mets
Best record in the MLB in this young season?  
sshin05 : 4/13/2017 11:32 am : link
The Reds!

They also have arguably the best bullpen. Price is really managing unconventionally.
Link - ( New Window )
I  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 11:34 am : link
think Wilmer is a very valuable piece of the team but for context in 2016 his 75 wRC+ was better than 6 major league players (1 of which has since retired)
I really wish the Mets would grow some balls and DFA  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 2:03 pm : link
Edgin. Yes he might get claimed and yes I dont give a shit.
RE: RE: They should have a lot of payroll flexibility  
Jay on the Island : 4/13/2017 2:04 pm : link
In comment 13426666 Metnut said:
Quote:
In comment 13426656 spike said:


Quote:


With all these vets coming off the books along with Wrights possible retirement.

Good time to extend Degrom and maybe Harvey?



Let's dream and sign Manny Machado to play 3B for the next decade. Machado and Rosario on the same side of the IF would be fucking awesome.

If he hits free agency you know he will receive a record breaking contract from either the Dodgers or Yankees. No harm in dreaming though.
Him and his 4 K/9  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 2:04 pm : link
and 4.50 ERA shouldnt be the reason better options are sent back to AAA. And yes the sample is SSS.
Tigers  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 2:04 pm : link
are apparently "fed up" with Bruce Rondon. I'd give them a call.
RE: ,  
Jay on the Island : 4/13/2017 2:05 pm : link
In comment 13426670 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Morosi

TORONTO -- The Dodgers and Brewers have remained in contact about a possible trade involving Ryan Braun, sources say, and it is not difficult to see why.

IIRC they had a deal in place last year that fell through the last minute. I believe it was Braun for Puig.
Preferred pen in a week  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 2:13 pm : link
Familia
Reed
Salas
Blevins
Smoker
Robles
long man

Not sure what the issue is. Looks sexy to me regardless of Robles brain farts from time to time.
RE: RE: RE: They should have a lot of payroll flexibility  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 2:42 pm : link
In comment 13427064 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 13426666 Metnut said:


Quote:


In comment 13426656 spike said:


Quote:


With all these vets coming off the books along with Wrights possible retirement.

Good time to extend Degrom and maybe Harvey?



Let's dream and sign Manny Machado to play 3B for the next decade. Machado and Rosario on the same side of the IF would be fucking awesome.


If he hits free agency you know he will receive a record breaking contract from either the Dodgers or Yankees. No harm in dreaming though.


Mets are playing with the big boys again. If Duda, Walker, Cabrera, Bruce, and Granderson all came off the books + Wright came to some sort of settlement... Machado could have the biggest contract of all time and it wouldn't come close to that AAV. Do I think something like that is going to happen? Slim to none but it "could" happen.
A  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 2:47 pm : link
scout told Jon Heyman that much of Robles problem is he's far too predictable.
Machado  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 2:48 pm : link
isn't going to be a Met. He will get a STAGGERING deal. If you told me 300 million I wouldn't be shocked at all.
This year..  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 2:49 pm : link
Granderson 15 mil
Bruce 12 mil
Cabrera 9 mil
Walker 18 mil
Duda 7.2 mil

Wright 20 mil

Forget about Wright. You are talking about 61.2 million just from the first 5.

If my options are picking up Cabrera's option, signing Walker, maybe Duda, ect.

or

Machado and go all young in Smith, Cheech, Rosario, ect.

I probably choose the Machado route.
If he got some sort of 10 year deal then fine (Not Sandy's style)...  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 2:50 pm : link
Just saying the Mets could easily afford to take on the AAV next year.
RE: If he got some sort of 10 year deal then fine (Not Sandy's style)...  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 2:53 pm : link
In comment 13427238 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Just saying the Mets could easily afford to take on the AAV next year.


He's getting a 10 year type of deal, there is no question. Only question is when his opt outs start, probably after year 3 or 4. He will likely get something in the range of 10 years 330 million.
There  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 2:54 pm : link
is no AAV "game" the Mets can play and win. Even at 35 million per year for 5 years it's nowhere near enough for him to take that. Practically all of baseball will be involved in the bidding. He's that good.
Mitch  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 2:56 pm : link
Moreland already has 8 doubles for the Sox, jeez
Let's wait and see shall we?  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:22 pm : link
Massive deals have come down lately. You rarely see them (not saying he's not getting a massive deal just that teams are being more cautious). Everyone thought Cespedes was getting 200 million this past offseason... everyone thought Bautista was getting some huge deal.. Heck I remember hearing Blevins was getting a 3 year, 10 mil per deal this offseason. What if the Yankees have their sights set on Bryce Harper? The Dodgers have Justin Turner through 2020. Sure everyone would "like" him but that doesn't mean every team is throwing 300 million at him. If we truly let 50-70 million come off the books this offseason and especially if Wright decided to come to some sort of settlement I could see us in the mix. Mets would have one major contract on the books in Cespedes and a dearth of prospects in the pipeline at 3B. It's not completely Pie in the Sky IMO.

And with that Im bowing out. These hypothetical crystal ball arguments are pointless. A lot can happen between now and then.
RE: I really wish the Mets would grow some balls and DFA  
Shecky : 4/13/2017 3:24 pm : link
In comment 13427057 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Edgin. Yes he might get claimed and yes I dont give a shit.


It's a near certainty he'd get claimed. Kind of hard for people to be upset about giving away Ynoa, but fine giving away Edgin.
And personally...  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:24 pm : link
If it were my team, I wouldn't sign any of our starting pitchers to big mega deals. Fuck all of them. Way too injury prone and way too much risk. Burn them all to the ground and let them walk. If it's my team Im splurging on a position player exactly like Machado to team with Cespedes and Ill fill in the rest with my talented prospects that are all in AAA.
RE: RE: I really wish the Mets would grow some balls and DFA  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:26 pm : link
In comment 13427313 Shecky said:
Quote:
In comment 13427057 ZGiants98 said:


Quote:


Edgin. Yes he might get claimed and yes I dont give a shit.



It's a near certainty he'd get claimed. Kind of hard for people to be upset about giving away Ynoa, but fine giving away Edgin.


We are short on SP depth but Ive sort of defended the Ynoa move saying there was a crunch and its understandable. Most thought we should have designated Montero at the time instead. Montero VS Ynoa for me isn't that huge a deal. Edgin is even less of a concern. A backup LOOGY that is meh? I dont really care to be honest.
RE: Let's wait and see shall we?  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:27 pm : link
In comment 13427310 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
Massive deals have come down lately. You rarely see them (not saying he's not getting a massive deal just that teams are being more cautious). Everyone thought Cespedes was getting 200 million this past offseason... everyone thought Bautista was getting some huge deal.. Heck I remember hearing Blevins was getting a 3 year, 10 mil per deal this offseason. What if the Yankees have their sights set on Bryce Harper? The Dodgers have Justin Turner through 2020. Sure everyone would "like" him but that doesn't mean every team is throwing 300 million at him. If we truly let 50-70 million come off the books this offseason and especially if Wright decided to come to some sort of settlement I could see us in the mix. Mets would have one major contract on the books in Cespedes and a dearth of prospects in the pipeline at 3B. It's not completely Pie in the Sky IMO.

And with that Im bowing out. These hypothetical crystal ball arguments are pointless. A lot can happen between now and then.


Machado isn't Cespedes who curiously has "red flags" that surround him. Machado is in the mix for #2 best player in the game and is 24 years old. He's young, good looking, marketable, impeccable off the field. He's getting an absolute MONSTER deal. Deals only "came down" last off-season because it was an inferior crop of players. 2015 3 players cleared 180 million, 2 cleared 200 million and none were 24 year old MVP caliber monsters. He is going to get more than twice what Cespedes got, closer to 3 times as much. There is zero doubt. Barring injury it's a lock.
From last June  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:29 pm : link
"Within the last week, Ken Rosenthal of Fox Sports suggested that the price tag for Manny Machado could get into the $400 million range. That's a lot of money, and one it's rather hard to imagine the Orioles committing to even a player as good as Machado."
Heyman  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:30 pm : link
Machado may get into the $400-million range, which seems almost reasonable considering Marlins outfielder Giancarlo Stanton’s record $325-million deal, but that may prove to be exclusionary for the sometimes penurious Orioles. Hearing that figure, one baseball official suggested it would “probably have to be at another venue.”
So if the Yankees plan on signing Bryce Haper for 400 million  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:34 pm : link
and the Dodgers look elsewhere since they already have Turner who's giving him 340 million? Not saying it's not going to happen but there's a real world where he doesn't have the market he expects. Could he get that much? of course. Does he deserve that much? Sure. Maybe. And dont get me wrong I get what your saying. It just doesnt always work out. The Mets could open the bidding on a 7 year deal at 30 per to sort of "replace" Wright and maybe nobody beats it.

I know this is all far fetched but saying we know how much he is 100% getting and thinking what he deserves should really be two different things IMO.
There  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:35 pm : link
is a 0% chance Machado doesn't receive a MONSTER deal barring injury. This "lets see" is utter BS. He's getting it. Just a matter of from which team.
That Stanton deal was so idiotic  
Shecky : 4/13/2017 3:36 pm : link
Great player, but horrendous contract. Brilliant move by his agent getting Stanton his cake and eating it by leveraging the Marlins ownership and their shortsihted view.

Speaking of that franchise, wonder how long after the all star break it implodes?
I'm  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:37 pm : link
not going to go through every possible destination but a team like Detroit (known for megadeals) has 80 million coming off their books when he's a FA, The Yankees and Red Sox will be involved. Basically any team with a decent payroll will be involved on a 24 year old monster superstar. There is no scenario (barring decline/injury) he doesn't get a megadeal and that includes the Yankees signing Harper etc. It's a silly scenario.
And for the record  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:37 pm : link
If there are teams opening up the bidding at 300-400 million there is no way on earth am I suggesting Sandy is going to be jumping in those waters. I have a hard time seeing him go higher than 5 years to be honest. I dont think he wanted to sign Wright to the contract he did and was sort of forced by ownership. The Wright contract probably only confirms his doubts in the first place.

Just saying... in a down market if there isn't the massive interest he's expecting... a star 3B could be exactly the kind of player we would want to spend big on.
Let's throw a monkey wrench in there  
Shecky : 4/13/2017 3:39 pm : link
What if Sandy isn't running the team by that off season?
RE: That Stanton deal was so idiotic  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:39 pm : link
In comment 13427345 Shecky said:
Quote:
Great player, but horrendous contract. Brilliant move by his agent getting Stanton his cake and eating it by leveraging the Marlins ownership and their shortsihted view.

Speaking of that franchise, wonder how long after the all star break it implodes?


I wouldn't count out the Marlins as Machado's eventual next team (though the Yankees are the heavy favorites). He's from Miami and presumably the new owner will treat them like a normal franchise.
RE: I'm  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13427348 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
not going to go through every possible destination but a team like Detroit (known for megadeals) has 80 million coming off their books when he's a FA, The Yankees and Red Sox will be involved. Basically any team with a decent payroll will be involved on a 24 year old monster superstar. There is no scenario (barring decline/injury) he doesn't get a megadeal and that includes the Yankees signing Harper etc. It's a silly scenario.


So you literally just confirmed my exact point in this paragraph. "Basically any team with a decent payroll will be involved". We are around 150 million right now and could be under 100 next year if that's the route we chose. We play in NY. Why couldn't we "basically any team with a decent payroll will be involved"
RE: Let's throw a monkey wrench in there  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:40 pm : link
In comment 13427354 Shecky said:
Quote:
What if Sandy isn't running the team by that off season?


Shecky,
He's arguing Machado won't get a monster deal. He's not even "defending" the Mets and their willingness to do so. This is why this argument is beyond preposterous. Mega stars in their mid-20's get monster deals. THEY set the market, the market doesn't "go down" for them.
RE: Let's throw a monkey wrench in there  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13427354 Shecky said:
Quote:
What if Sandy isn't running the team by that off season?


Please dont scare me man. This is my biggest fear with the team. Sandy is preparing to move on.
RE: RE: Let's throw a monkey wrench in there  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:41 pm : link
In comment 13427359 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
In comment 13427354 Shecky said:


Quote:


What if Sandy isn't running the team by that off season?



Shecky,
He's arguing Machado won't get a monster deal. He's not even "defending" the Mets and their willingness to do so. This is why this argument is beyond preposterous. Mega stars in their mid-20's get monster deals. THEY set the market, the market doesn't "go down" for them.


Dude. Where on earth did I say he wont get a monster deal?? Please find it for me.
RE: RE: I'm  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:42 pm : link
In comment 13427358 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13427348 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


not going to go through every possible destination but a team like Detroit (known for megadeals) has 80 million coming off their books when he's a FA, The Yankees and Red Sox will be involved. Basically any team with a decent payroll will be involved on a 24 year old monster superstar. There is no scenario (barring decline/injury) he doesn't get a megadeal and that includes the Yankees signing Harper etc. It's a silly scenario.



So you literally just confirmed my exact point in this paragraph. "Basically any team with a decent payroll will be involved". We are around 150 million right now and could be under 100 next year if that's the route we chose. We play in NY. Why couldn't we "basically any team with a decent payroll will be involved"


He's going to get an insane amount of years. He's a LOCK for the 10-12 year deal (with opt outs) which the Mets are extremely unlikely to do. Your premise (the one you started with) was that the Mets would give him a higher AAV but not the years. The higher AAV won't make up for the years on an in his prime superstar. He's getting 30+ per season years or not.
RE: RE: RE: Let's throw a monkey wrench in there  
DanMetroMan : 4/13/2017 3:44 pm : link
In comment 13427365 ZGiants98 said:
Quote:
In comment 13427359 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


In comment 13427354 Shecky said:


Quote:


What if Sandy isn't running the team by that off season?



Shecky,
He's arguing Machado won't get a monster deal. He's not even "defending" the Mets and their willingness to do so. This is why this argument is beyond preposterous. Mega stars in their mid-20's get monster deals. THEY set the market, the market doesn't "go down" for them.



Dude. Where on earth did I say he wont get a monster deal?? Please find it for me.


"Let's wait and see shall we? Massive deals have come down lately. You rarely see them (not saying he's not getting a massive deal just that teams are being more cautious). Everyone thought Cespedes was getting 200 million this past offseason... everyone thought Bautista was getting some huge deal"

hmmm. Machado is going to get more than double what Cespedes got. Just because this most recent off-season had a terrible FA market doesn't mean anything in regard to Machado, Harper etc. You make it sound like superstars were available but got small deals. The top 3 contracts given out to position players were Cespedes, Dexter Fowler and Ian Desmond. The players available sucked.
Actually thats not what I started with  
ZGiants98 : 4/13/2017 3:44 pm : link
I flat out said he very well might get an astronomical deal and probably even deserves one and will get one. What I said was things dont always go the way they should and in a hypothetical down market (Harper goes to the Yankees, ect.) maybe the Mets get involved.
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