is missing the big time talent we usually have on the OL. Ramcyzk has injuries and heart questions. Bolles has strength and age questions. Cam Robinson has character and probably a RT questions. Lamp has short arm can he play OT or is he an OG questions. There is no legit top LT like in so many years. However I think there is decent depth no different than any other years. We weren't getting a top OT at 23 anyways if there was one available. So with that I don't think it is all that bad. I think WR is pretty stacked along with TE and I think DE is probably the worst that I can remember minus Garrett.
has reached in other rounds, but he's pretty predictable in the first few rounds. He likes noted players from big programs, typically those at "premium" positions. I don't think he'll reach for an OL or a QB, although the latter is more possible this year because Eli is 36. But my guess is that OL and QB aren't even addressed until day three.
that I would like to see drafted in the first round at 23 -- teams are going to reach for them anyway because there is a huge shortage of quality Olineman in the NFL but hopefully not the Giants... I say go where the talent is ... I pray the Giants stick to their value ratings and not draft OL on need alone. This year is a year to take OLs who should be available in the later rounds --
DE is not as bad you think. Their is some guys like Charleton and Jordan Willis that will be there and match what we look for. Their is some depth throughout.
Usually there's 3 or 4 big time OL who are sure bets to come off the board in the first 15 picks. This year there doesn't seem to be a big difference between those with 1st round grades - Ramczyk, Bolles and Robinson and those who at the moment have 2nd or 3rd projections - Moten, Garcia, Johnson, Wheeler and others. That's why I want the Giants to go defense in the first round and OT in the second. The one exception is Forrest Lamp, although he's a guard he looks like the one OL who's the closest thing to a sure bet. I'd have no problems with an interior line of Pugh, Richburg and Lamp for the next 5-7 seasons, or god willing longer. As for TE, this draft is so deep that the Giants should be able to get a good one like Hodges or Leggett in the 3rd round.
the Giants must enjoy conversation for its own sake, as they've spent plenty of time meeting with them.
But the Giants are usually confident in their own evaluations. (Sure wish I was as confident in them!) Judging by their meetings, they've got OL prospects sprinkled through their draft board in many rounds.
RE: Pugh at least has developed into an excellent guard Â
Whoop De Doo. If all they wanted was an excellent Guard, they could have drafted Kyle Long, who was picked by the Bears right after the Giants chose Pugh. Long's been to three Pro Bowls and is a one-time All-Pro. Now that's an excellent Guard.
I don’t know fellas, I’ve looked at a lot of grades also. These top 3 OT’s & Lamp, keep getting graded right with the Charlaton’s, Davis,’ and Cunningham’s and Humphrey’s that will possibly be available at 23. I would love to draft Jarrad Davis, and have him become Patrick Willis, and our MLB QB of the D for the next 10 years. We haven’t had often since Harry Carson (2 years of Pierce). Or any of the defensive names being brandished about. I would love 4th CB, with the DRC situation, and the way the game is played today
Someone else said it hear before me, but I was thinking it. They’re aren’t any top 15 OT’s. But the drop-off after these 4, all projected 15 to 30, is Huge. And as that OP said, “right in our sweet spot”.
I listened to Mayock. he didn’t say I can’t find 4 to put in the First Rd. He saiid, “I’m not sure if I can find more than four, to put in the top 3 rounds.”
I get that we can’t Nascar. I saw how terrible we are behind the 3 CB’s.
But there’s so much we can’t do unless this unit improves.
We can’t, make a 3rd &1, get any respect for the running game, therefore we can’t play action, or run out the clock. They need a nasty boy with talent.
And as we all know Reese’s terrible track record picking an offensive linemen, after the first 2 rounds. I could see him saying at 23, “now or never”.
RE: RE: RE: Pugh at least has developed into an excellent guard Â
But he isn't now, and hasn't been. If the plan is to overpay for him like we did for JPP and OV (who despite their contracts figure to need a draft pick to help them generate a pass rush...yikes), then I'm not on board with that either.
Bang for the buck.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Pugh at least has developed into an excellent guard Â
He's up for an extension, he's going to be expensive as well.
If 2018 is anything like 2017 in free agency, Reese may have to shell out $10M per to keep Pugh, $7M per for Richburg and who knows what to keep Fluker if he succeeds at RT or RG. I do think the Giants should try to grab 2 Oline guys (who may not need to start this season) but not in the 1st round. No sir. Not in the first round please.
He's up for an extension, he's going to be expensive as well.
If 2018 is anything like 2017 in free agency, Reese may have to shell out $10M per to keep Pugh, $7M per for Richburg and who knows what to keep Fluker if he succeeds at RT or RG. I do think the Giants should try to grab 2 Oline guys (who may not need to start this season) but not in the 1st round. No sir. Not in the first round please.
No disagreements here, hopefully we can get some solid prospects for depth and development.
I think Lamp will end up being the best of the bunch. Another Zach Martin.
Agreed. Take him in the 1st and then grab a T in the 2nd and thats good value. If Lamp reminds of Martin. You take him and dont look back with any ragretz.
It's not that simple. Overpaying for one is not the same as overpaying for the other.
One's a premium position and the other isn't.
It might be time to accept that the concept of "premium position" is bullshit. Watching John Jerry repeatedly fist us sure made guard feel like a premium position.
is missing the big time talent we usually have on the OL. Ramcyzk has injuries and heart questions. Bolles has strength and age questions. Cam Robinson has character and probably a RT questions. Lamp has short arm can he play OT or is he an OG questions. There is no legit top LT like in so many years. However I think there is decent depth no different than any other years. We weren't getting a top OT at 23 anyways if there was one available. So with that I don't think it is all that bad. I think WR is pretty stacked along with TE and I think DE is probably the worst that I can remember minus Garrett.
What are the "heart questions"? Because he took a year off after high school? The narrative seems to be that he only returned to football because of what it could provide him, but the reality is that he came back and played D-3 ball. That's not a fast-track to the NFL or to any preferential treatment along the way. If anything, I think RR is a guy that stepped away from the game and missed it.
Based on the 2016 performance, would you bid for Pugh or Richburg or Â
I think they are both replaceable with a draft pick or free agency so I would not pursue them aggressively,especially if they get a couple of o-linemen in this draft.
But why the F would you ever pay a lot for them as free agents.
They're not that great.
Good, yes. But nothing more.
MS -- here's prediction for you -- the Giants Oline is going to turn things around this year -- I'm gonna be interested to see how many critics are going to eat their words
There's no OL depth, but there is talent in the 1st few rounds.
Right now: CBS: Ramczyk is 18th, Bolles 27th, Lamp 28th and Robinson 35th.
GBN: RR 19th, Lamp 23rd, Bolles 31st and Robinson 35th.
Huddle Report: Bolles 20th, RR 22, Lamp 23, Robinson 24.
So three different sites have the top offensive linemen in this draft going right around where we select. Imo several of these guys clearly wouldn't be reaches at 23. To me Lamp is an immediate starter at an OG position for any team that takes him, RR could be an immediate starter at LT (as could Bolles) and at worst Robinson would be an immediate starter for any number of good teams at RT.
I like some of these guys better than others, but to say that all of them would be reaches just doesn't fit the facts.
Now I'm not arguing that the Giants should take any of them at 23, but it's reasonable to think that some of them may be in their top tier of available players when 23 rolls around.
Cam Robinson is the prototype of everything the Giants love in an OL. Long arms, three year starter in the SEC, 21 years old, National Champion, Outland Trophy winner, and his 5.15 in the forty wasn't too shabby. I have no doubt that the Giants will have a 1st round grade on him, probably in the top ten on their board.
The arrest for a half a gram of weed and an unlicensed handgun is a non-issue. All it does is confirm that he was a 21-year old kid living in Alabama at the time, but we already knew that. Character-wise, I'm more concerned about Bolles.
But why the F would you ever pay a lot for them as free agents.
They're not that great.
Good, yes. But nothing more.
MS -- here's prediction for you -- the Giants Oline is going to turn things around this year -- I'm gonna be interested to see how many critics are going to eat their words
Will be very happy to eat my words, especially about the offensive line. I've been sour grapes about this unit since the last Giants Super Bowl Season. Reese has tried to fix the problem... 6 years later he gets a solid C-.
Cam Robinson is the prototype of everything the Giants love in an OL. Long arms, three year starter in the SEC, 21 years old, National Champion, Outland Trophy winner, and his 5.15 in the forty wasn't too shabby. I have no doubt that the Giants will have a 1st round grade on him, probably in the top ten on their board.
The arrest for a half a gram of weed and an unlicensed handgun is a non-issue. All it does is confirm that he was a 21-year old kid living in Alabama at the time, but we already knew that. Character-wise, I'm more concerned about Bolles.
Do you think Robinson's arrest is a nonissue for the Giants? I agree that it might not be the biggest deal, but I think you're dismissing it too quickly because of your own desire for the Giants to draft him.
But why the F would you ever pay a lot for them as free agents.
They're not that great.
Good, yes. But nothing more.
MS -- here's prediction for you -- the Giants Oline is going to turn things around this year -- I'm gonna be interested to see how many critics are going to eat their words
I hope you are right..but I can't see them. The same unit..doing a 180 all of the sudden
All the measurable a in the world won't guatantee Â
Anything. Let's not forget Robert Gallery a few years back. This guy was the next great OT and turned out to be an average OG. I don't want an OL in the first round by I think there are decent OL in this draft, specifically Forrest Lamp. He arms are shorter than ideal but he is a strong, athletic and versatile OL, he is the one guy that I could see NYG taking in round 1 and I'd be ok with it. He might be the next Chris Snee at RG and he could be a pretty good LT in the NFL. I just am not sure NYG wants to draft a RG in round 1. Dawkins or Moton in round 2 seem like better value to me.
I hope I'm wrong
Agreed. My guess is that through all the draft years, most all-pro OL came from outside round 1
I hope I'm wrong
Flowers wasn't a reach. He had his naysayers, but the consensus was that he was a 1st round talent, even a top ten talent.
Pugh on the other hand...ehh...don't get me started, lol.
Agree though, not a fan of the first round OT targets.
Agree though, not a fan of the first round OT targets.
Agreed. The 2nd round is where I'd start looking for O-Linemen, then again on Day 3.
Pugh is an excellent guard, but JPP and OV are not elite enough.
Quote:
Flowers hasn't been an excellent anything.
Pugh is an excellent guard, but JPP and OV are not elite enough.
Is Pugh slated to make $17 million against the cap for the next 3 years?
Fuck you're awful.
I also don't think the OTs are as bad as they make it seem. They've been pretty bad at evaluating OL groups over the past several years.
But the Giants are usually confident in their own evaluations. (Sure wish I was as confident in them!) Judging by their meetings, they've got OL prospects sprinkled through their draft board in many rounds.
Whoop De Doo. If all they wanted was an excellent Guard, they could have drafted Kyle Long, who was picked by the Bears right after the Giants chose Pugh. Long's been to three Pro Bowls and is a one-time All-Pro. Now that's an excellent Guard.
But then the Patriots found Tom Brady in the 6th round.
My point? Just because a draft is not heavy at a certain position at the top, does not mean there are not plenty of good picks later in the draft.
Someone else said it hear before me, but I was thinking it. They’re aren’t any top 15 OT’s. But the drop-off after these 4, all projected 15 to 30, is Huge. And as that OP said, “right in our sweet spot”.
I listened to Mayock. he didn’t say I can’t find 4 to put in the First Rd. He saiid, “I’m not sure if I can find more than four, to put in the top 3 rounds.”
I get that we can’t Nascar. I saw how terrible we are behind the 3 CB’s.
But there’s so much we can’t do unless this unit improves.
We can’t, make a 3rd &1, get any respect for the running game, therefore we can’t play action, or run out the clock. They need a nasty boy with talent.
And as we all know Reese’s terrible track record picking an offensive linemen, after the first 2 rounds. I could see him saying at 23, “now or never”.
Quote:
In comment 13425612 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Flowers hasn't been an excellent anything.
Pugh is an excellent guard, but JPP and OV are not elite enough.
Is Pugh slated to make $17 million against the cap for the next 3 years?
Fuck you're awful.
He's up for an extension, he's going to be expensive as well.
Bang for the buck.
He's up for an extension, he's going to be expensive as well.
If 2018 is anything like 2017 in free agency, Reese may have to shell out $10M per to keep Pugh, $7M per for Richburg and who knows what to keep Fluker if he succeeds at RT or RG. I do think the Giants should try to grab 2 Oline guys (who may not need to start this season) but not in the 1st round. No sir. Not in the first round please.
Quote:
He's up for an extension, he's going to be expensive as well.
If 2018 is anything like 2017 in free agency, Reese may have to shell out $10M per to keep Pugh, $7M per for Richburg and who knows what to keep Fluker if he succeeds at RT or RG. I do think the Giants should try to grab 2 Oline guys (who may not need to start this season) but not in the 1st round. No sir. Not in the first round please.
No disagreements here, hopefully we can get some solid prospects for depth and development.
It's not that simple. Overpaying for one is not the same as overpaying for the other.
Quote:
.
It's not that simple. Overpaying for one is not the same as overpaying for the other.
One's a premium position and the other isn't.
Agreed. Take him in the 1st and then grab a T in the 2nd and thats good value. If Lamp reminds of Martin. You take him and dont look back with any ragretz.
trust your value board.
Quote:
In comment 13425709 David in LA said:
Quote:
.
It's not that simple. Overpaying for one is not the same as overpaying for the other.
One's a premium position and the other isn't.
It might be time to accept that the concept of "premium position" is bullshit. Watching John Jerry repeatedly fist us sure made guard feel like a premium position.
...in desperate need for star power upfront.
We have no stars... just a couple of good players and then a lot of mediocrity. And practically zero bench strength.
But we can't go O-line in Round One this year. Maybe TE or RB or...
...wait for it:
And with the 23rd selection in the 2017 NFL Draft the New York Giants select...
....Quarterback out of Texas Tech, Pat Mahomes... Mahomes.
+1, I agree. I think the top 4 guys are good, its just not deep.
Where did I say that?
I'm saying the concept of a "premium position" is made up, faulty thinking.
What are the "heart questions"? Because he took a year off after high school? The narrative seems to be that he only returned to football because of what it could provide him, but the reality is that he came back and played D-3 ball. That's not a fast-track to the NFL or to any preferential treatment along the way. If anything, I think RR is a guy that stepped away from the game and missed it.
I think they are both replaceable with a draft pick or free agency so I would not pursue them aggressively,especially if they get a couple of o-linemen in this draft.
...of Pugh and Richburg than BBI.
But why the F would you ever pay a lot for them as free agents.
They're not that great.
Good, yes. But nothing more.
...of Pugh and Richburg than BBI.
But why the F would you ever pay a lot for them as free agents.
They're not that great.
Good, yes. But nothing more.
MS -- here's prediction for you -- the Giants Oline is going to turn things around this year -- I'm gonna be interested to see how many critics are going to eat their words
Right now: CBS: Ramczyk is 18th, Bolles 27th, Lamp 28th and Robinson 35th.
GBN: RR 19th, Lamp 23rd, Bolles 31st and Robinson 35th.
Huddle Report: Bolles 20th, RR 22, Lamp 23, Robinson 24.
So three different sites have the top offensive linemen in this draft going right around where we select. Imo several of these guys clearly wouldn't be reaches at 23. To me Lamp is an immediate starter at an OG position for any team that takes him, RR could be an immediate starter at LT (as could Bolles) and at worst Robinson would be an immediate starter for any number of good teams at RT.
I like some of these guys better than others, but to say that all of them would be reaches just doesn't fit the facts.
Now I'm not arguing that the Giants should take any of them at 23, but it's reasonable to think that some of them may be in their top tier of available players when 23 rolls around.
The arrest for a half a gram of weed and an unlicensed handgun is a non-issue. All it does is confirm that he was a 21-year old kid living in Alabama at the time, but we already knew that. Character-wise, I'm more concerned about Bolles.
Quote:
...of Pugh and Richburg than BBI.
But why the F would you ever pay a lot for them as free agents.
They're not that great.
Good, yes. But nothing more.
MS -- here's prediction for you -- the Giants Oline is going to turn things around this year -- I'm gonna be interested to see how many critics are going to eat their words
Will be very happy to eat my words, especially about the offensive line. I've been sour grapes about this unit since the last Giants Super Bowl Season. Reese has tried to fix the problem... 6 years later he gets a solid C-.
The arrest for a half a gram of weed and an unlicensed handgun is a non-issue. All it does is confirm that he was a 21-year old kid living in Alabama at the time, but we already knew that. Character-wise, I'm more concerned about Bolles.
Do you think Robinson's arrest is a nonissue for the Giants? I agree that it might not be the biggest deal, but I think you're dismissing it too quickly because of your own desire for the Giants to draft him.
Quote:
...of Pugh and Richburg than BBI.
But why the F would you ever pay a lot for them as free agents.
They're not that great.
Good, yes. But nothing more.
MS -- here's prediction for you -- the Giants Oline is going to turn things around this year -- I'm gonna be interested to see how many critics are going to eat their words
I hope you are right..but I can't see them. The same unit..doing a 180 all of the sudden