NFT: Knicks, Jackson quietly pick up 2-year option

that KP will be a star. The guy has the desire to be great and he knows what he needs to do.

Very obviously, he's got to get stronger on his bottom half. ONce he does that, he will thrive. I'm excited to see the offense run through him consistently.

is not playing defense. To win, you need to play defense all the time. That's what winning teams do and that's what winning players do.

In comment 13427168 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

The team was 6-1 with Melo and Lin after MDA was fired. Then Lin got hurt/decided to protect his future and that was the end of that.

Melo ran MDA out of town. Got jealous of Lin and his popularity and ran him out of town too
Poison pill contract didn't matter to Dolan. When does he worry about money Look how Lin excited the City and filled the seats
Melo couldn't stand the attention

but I hate that Phil turned him into a sympathetic figure this season. Everyone knows a divorce is needed, no need to rub Melo's nose in it publicly.

according to a Minny reporter. That's gonna be hilarious.

In comment 13427217 Keith said:

Quote:

is not playing defense. To win, you need to play defense all the time. That's what winning teams do and that's what winning players do.

Well, the point is that there are some players who just cant defend. They dont have the athleticism or skill to do it. Prime Melo was capable.

Every player turns it on and off. When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s most of the league played at 80% effort most of the time (and there were articles about vets delivering this wisdom to rookies going all out). It's one of the reasons guys were playing 38 or more minutes a night. Now you see guys like Harden and Westbrook doing very little on defense in the regular season. Melo gets castigated for this because his defensive effort has been more lax than most. But lets not pretend that every other allstar is locked in every possession/game. That's bullshit. There are more bad defender stars than good defender stars during the regular season.

addressing the media at 2:30 tomorrow

In comment 13427412 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

addressing the media at 2:30 tomorrow

It speaks! It speaks!

to turn the page, but that's even worse, Deej. He is clearly capable and chose not to. What message does that send to yoru teammates or even your opponent. He saved everythign for offense(only when he had the ball in his hands). There are plenty of winnings in history who were not good at defense, but they always tried.

you snarky piece of shit, tell Melo we are moving on, he's asking you to! He flat out said he only wants to stay if we are "committed to winning". Tell him we are rebuilding!!!!!!!!!!!

In comment 13427352 Earl the goat said:

Quote:

In comment 13427168 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: The team was 6-1 with Melo and Lin after MDA was fired. Then Lin got hurt/decided to protect his future and that was the end of that. Melo ran MDA out of town. Got jealous of Lin and his popularity and ran him out of town too Poison pill contract didn't matter to Dolan. When does he worry about money Look how Lin excited the City and filled the seats Melo couldn't stand the attention

Melo did run MDA out of town, yet the team responded by getting MUCH better with Mike Woodson as coach (and Woody is hardly Gregg Popovich).

However, Melo didn't even remotely run Lin out of town. Lin decided to take every last buck.

weighs in...
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13427426 Keith said:

Quote:

to turn the page, but that's even worse, Deej. He is clearly capable and chose not to. What message does that send to yoru teammates or even your opponent. He saved everythign for offense(only when he had the ball in his hands). There are plenty of winnings in history who were not good at defense, but they always tried.

And I've repeatedly said that the lack of defense and commitment to the offense/ball movement is why Melo cant be the main star of a title team. Your best player must be your leader, and Melo sets bad examples. What I think he would have succeeded as (both as a player and in terms of personality) is being a great 2nd star on a title competitive team.

In comment 13427440 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 13427352 Earl the goat said: Quote: In comment 13427168 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: The team was 6-1 with Melo and Lin after MDA was fired. Then Lin got hurt/decided to protect his future and that was the end of that. Melo ran MDA out of town. Got jealous of Lin and his popularity and ran him out of town too Poison pill contract didn't matter to Dolan. When does he worry about money Look how Lin excited the City and filled the seats Melo couldn't stand the attention Melo did run MDA out of town, yet the team responded by getting MUCH better with Mike Woodson as coach (and Woody is hardly Gregg Popovich). However, Melo didn't even remotely run Lin out of town. Lin decided to take every last buck.

Ever notice how Lin goes from team to team and no one breaks their back trying to retain him?

In comment 13427443 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

weighs in... Link - ( New Window )

Good overview and I don't think it's slanted at all. Melo was the biggest(aside from Jackson) problem with the Knicks this season and nothing can be accomplished unless he's shipped out. Other than that, we have the pieces to build something and this offseason is key.

In comment 13427443 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

weighs in... Link - ( New Window )

Clearly from Phil's perspective. So many excuses. Even the "Phil deserves the lionshare of the blame" part is a cop out -- his decisions "were made for worthy reasons" but somehow they backfired or were "decimated by a perpetual series of injuries". Yeah, to guys the Bulls moved on from because they were injury prone!

This passage is horrifying if this is from the mouth of Phil (though redeemed by Rosen saying Melo and Rose are goners):

Quote:

But there�s another reason why Jackson was forced to lure Melo back to New York: Knicks fans in the Big Apple are averse to any suggestion that their beloved team might be undertaking a rebuilding process. However, their reluctance to accept such a program can be entirely mitigated if a superstar player can be the focus of whatever enthusiasm they can muster. In whatever the arena � political, entertainment, and athletic � New York absolutely loves stars!

Melo is on the team next year then 2018 is a disaster before it even begins.

is that Melo and Rose are goners.

The part about Knicks fans being unwilling to deal with a rebuild angers me. REAL Knicks fans can handle it, but the folks who just go to the Garden to grab a couple of beers and hang with friends don't want it. "They just want to see a good game," according to Jimmy Dolan.

werent we all happy?

didnt the knicks get bettter?

and as for lin he ran himself out of town, he is selfish and only cares about himself, he has proven that over and over again...

the hint of pain he sits down no matter if he can play through it or not...

and the whole melo was jealous of lin was absolute bullshit, he played well for 2 weeks and then he was exposed, what did melo have to be jealous about? if you go back to that season melo finished thag season ten times bettrr than lin played...

right or wrong lin refusing to play in that miami playoff series at 85 percent when davis and shumpert got hurt left a bad taste in his teammates mouth

but the article wasn't slanted at all. Phil deserves the blame for signing Melo, but on the court, Melo is the biggest problem. The one thing he didn't do in that article was bash phil for the Noah deal which is the one thing he should have and could have bashed him for(other than Melo).

Phil made some calculated moves and none of them hurt our future prospects.

He was getting booed until Phil started lobbing Twitter grenades.

In comment 13427487 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

is that Melo and Rose are goners. The part about Knicks fans being unwilling to deal with a rebuild angers me. REAL Knicks fans can handle it, but the folks who just go to the Garden to grab a couple of beers and hang with friends don't want it. "They just want to see a good game," according to Jimmy Dolan.

the problem is the media feeds into this, if knicks trade melo, guaranteed the media will be talking about how the knicks will suck rather than them rebuilding the right way

In comment 13427487 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

is that Melo and Rose are goners. The part about Knicks fans being unwilling to deal with a rebuild angers me. REAL Knicks fans can handle it, but the folks who just go to the Garden to grab a couple of beers and hang with friends don't want it. "They just want to see a good game," according to Jimmy Dolan.

Yeah but it's reality. Look at last night. Anyone with a brain knows that we need to lose, but the fans are going nuts because they aren't "real" fans. They don't live and die with the team, they live and die with that moment. Such is reality in NY.

Quote:

In a season littered with low points, the 2016-17 New York Knicks appeared to find rock bottom on March 12. In Brooklyn, the 11-win Nets sank 14 3-pointers in the first half against the Knicks, effectively ending New York's playoff hopes in 24 painful minutes. And head coach Jeff Hornacek wasn't happy. Hornacek lit into the Knicks in the visitors locker room of the Barclays Center, and according to people familiar with the matter, Hornacek's diatribe was expletive-filled and delivered at a high decibel level. It's not uncommon for a coach to go off on his players after a pathetic showing. But what happened next was a bit surprising. Carmelo Anthony, whose default demeanor is relaxed and easygoing, responded with anger and expletives of his own. For those accustomed to seeing Anthony live by his oft-used idiom, "Stay Melo," it was jarring. Anthony's R-rated rant essentially questioned the direction of the entire organization, according to sources. Associate head coach Kurt Rambis fired back, calling out Anthony's effort on defense. Anthony responded again, but before things could devolve further, one Knick suggested that the players head back to the court and start warming up. So they did.

Begley - ( New Window )

worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol.

A very good but not GREAT scorer, and that's pretty much it. Add in the high salary, no-trade clause, and the opt-out that makes him an expiring contract, and you're getting very little in return. Like nothing, or Austin Rivers.

Im not in the room so I cant say with certainty who was the cause. But in particular I think Phil, Rose, starting midseason Lee and Jennings (cause or effect), and Horny and Melo (by their inaction) are the likely culprits.

In comment 13427524 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Quote: In a season littered with low points, the 2016-17 New York Knicks appeared to find rock bottom on March 12. In Brooklyn, the 11-win Nets sank 14 3-pointers in the first half against the Knicks, effectively ending New York's playoff hopes in 24 painful minutes. And head coach Jeff Hornacek wasn't happy. Hornacek lit into the Knicks in the visitors locker room of the Barclays Center, and according to people familiar with the matter, Hornacek's diatribe was expletive-filled and delivered at a high decibel level. It's not uncommon for a coach to go off on his players after a pathetic showing. But what happened next was a bit surprising. Carmelo Anthony, whose default demeanor is relaxed and easygoing, responded with anger and expletives of his own. For those accustomed to seeing Anthony live by his oft-used idiom, "Stay Melo," it was jarring. Anthony's R-rated rant essentially questioned the direction of the entire organization, according to sources. Associate head coach Kurt Rambis fired back, calling out Anthony's effort on defense. Anthony responded again, but before things could devolve further, one Knick suggested that the players head back to the court and start warming up. So they did. Begley - ( New Window )

so melo cursed out hornacek, no wonder this team went down the shitter

In comment 13427534 Deej said:

Quote:

Im not in the room so I cant say with certainty who was the cause. But in particular I think Phil, Rose, starting midseason Lee and Jennings (cause or effect), and Horny and Melo (by their inaction) are the likely culprits.

it seemed like they thought they could win because of the names in the room and them when ot started going south they turned on each other

but once they got on the court it became clear right away that it wasn't clicking. These guys are vets - they know what a good team looks, feels and plays like. Hell, even young KP knew there was trouble at 14-10. The bitterness probably simmered from there. I'm guessing Lee asks for a trade - he didn't sign here to rebuild.

In comment 13427539 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13427534 Deej said: Quote: Im not in the room so I cant say with certainty who was the cause. But in particular I think Phil, Rose, starting midseason Lee and Jennings (cause or effect), and Horny and Melo (by their inaction) are the likely culprits. it seemed like they thought they could win because of the names in the room and them when ot started going south they turned on each other

Maybe. An alternative story might by that KP was their best player, they were over 500 until he got hurt, and then with his injury they collapsed. When Noah went down things got even worse. Two best attitude guys and two defensive bigs (I think KP is unfairly maligned here for his D) go down and never recover, which just murdered the season when the perimeter guys werent keeping anyone out of the paint or defending PnRs correctly.

I think that's exactly what happened in the locker room.

In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol.

What is a "good return" though? Would he even get a 2yr/$50M deal on the open market if he was an FA? I guess Wade got something clsoe to that but it's hard to see there being much "surplus" value there.

In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol.

I think part of the "never rebuild" stuff in the Rosen piece could be a planted "leak" to back up Phil's bargaining position in trades/with Melo this summer. It's a tightrope to walk -- he needs to move Melo but cant be too desperate lest Melo (and trading partners) put the screws to him.

Although as I've said, I'll buy that there is a rebuild when they come out and say "this is a rebuilding/development year".

In comment 13427550 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said: Quote: worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol. What is a "good return" though? Would he even get a 2yr/$50M deal on the open market if he was an FA? I guess Wade got something clsoe to that but it's hard to see there being much "surplus" value there.

In a "realistic" but still "best case" scenario? Youngish assets that aren't signed to stupid deals that we know suck (aka not Austin Rivers) and picks before 2022 (ideally more than one). Austin Rivers absolutely sucks. Somehow this narrative of a breakout formed because he was taking a lot of shots with Paul out. He posted a WS/48 of 0.59 this season (DOWN from the previous season 0.63) for context Kuz .57, Randle .108, Thomas .046. He's a bad player going into his 5th NBA season

In comment 13427524 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Quote: In a season littered with low points, the 2016-17 New York Knicks appeared to find rock bottom on March 12. In Brooklyn, the 11-win Nets sank 14 3-pointers in the first half against the Knicks, effectively ending New York's playoff hopes in 24 painful minutes. And head coach Jeff Hornacek wasn't happy. Hornacek lit into the Knicks in the visitors locker room of the Barclays Center, and according to people familiar with the matter, Hornacek's diatribe was expletive-filled and delivered at a high decibel level. It's not uncommon for a coach to go off on his players after a pathetic showing. But what happened next was a bit surprising. Carmelo Anthony, whose default demeanor is relaxed and easygoing, responded with anger and expletives of his own. For those accustomed to seeing Anthony live by his oft-used idiom, "Stay Melo," it was jarring. Anthony's R-rated rant essentially questioned the direction of the entire organization, according to sources. Associate head coach Kurt Rambis fired back, calling out Anthony's effort on defense. Anthony responded again, but before things could devolve further, one Knick suggested that the players head back to the court and start warming up. So they did. Begley - ( New Window )

The worst part of that story IMO is that Kurt Rambis is still around to say anything at all.

The Knicks fell apart one night in Phoenix during a west coast trip and the season was never the same. A few weeks later, KP, their best player, got hurt and the team cratered.

I remember Chriss got a little aggressive with KP and KP responded by completely taking over the game in the fourth quarter. It was great to see. But they still managed to give away a late lead.

In comment 13427550 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said: Quote: worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol. What is a "good return" though? Would he even get a 2yr/$50M deal on the open market if he was an FA? I guess Wade got something clsoe to that but it's hard to see there being much "surplus" value there.

I think he would, with the cap raise certainly. Wade is a precedent. Howard at 70/3 is a precedent kind of. Issue is that the elite, elite teams will want to pay less. E.g. Gasol leaving some $$ behind to sign with SAS. So you'd have to find a match of a team like ATL or CHI from last offseason -- not rebuilding, not able to force a discount.

Also, it's less risky. Lets compare (without hindsight) whether you'd want Melo at Wade's price vs. some of the deals handed out last offseason. Conley 153/5. Batum 120/5. Beal 128/5. Parsons 94/4. Bazemore 70/4. The centers (incl. Noah, Biyambo, Mahinmi, Moz). Luol 72/4. Ryan Anderson 80/4. Turner 70/4. Even the RFAs got paid (Fournier, Crabbee etc). Free agency is CRAZY expensive, and only going up this offseason. Melo for 50/2 is a decent bet next to those contracts. All depends on how you plan on hiding his defense.

In comment 13427559 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13427550 Metnut said: Quote: In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said: Quote: worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol. What is a "good return" though? Would he even get a 2yr/$50M deal on the open market if he was an FA? I guess Wade got something clsoe to that but it's hard to see there being much "surplus" value there. In a "realistic" but still "best case" scenario? Youngish assets that aren't signed to stupid deals that we know suck (aka not Austin Rivers) and picks before 2022 (ideally more than one). Austin Rivers absolutely sucks. Somehow this narrative of a breakout formed because he was taking a lot of shots with Paul out. He posted a WS/48 of 0.59 this season (DOWN from the previous season 0.63) for context Kuz .57, Randle .108, Thomas .046. He's a bad player going into his 5th NBA season

Shhh. You'll fuck up Saric's ROY candidacy (KIDDING)

In comment 13427492 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

werent we all happy? didnt the knicks get bettter? and as for lin he ran himself out of town, he is selfish and only cares about himself, he has proven that over and over again... the hint of pain he sits down no matter if he can play through it or not... How do you know who was happy when Dantoni got fired Dolan ruined that team with the Melo trade and set the franchise back years Look at Dantoni now. He's one of the top coaches in the league And regarding Melo. You haven't been right regarding anything about Melo in 6 years and only this year have you said that it's time to go Bringing him to NY just really backfired Dolan should take complete blame for the wretched mess this franchise is in I'm not a Melo hater. I think he's a fine human being Great husband and father but a selfish basketball player and a me first attitude and the whole melo was jealous of lin was absolute bullshit, he played well for 2 weeks and then he was exposed, what did melo have to be jealous about? if you go back to that season melo finished thag season ten times bettrr than lin played... right or wrong lin refusing to play in that miami playoff series at 85 percent when davis and shumpert got hurt left a bad taste in his teammates mouth

.

In comment 13427593 Greg from LI said:

Quote:

.

+1. If Rivers has positive value, get a 3rd team involved and let them give us something for Rivers.

To defend him to this day.

Knick fans want a complete rebuild. No one cares about a good game. Dolan is a complete moron who has destroyed the franchise.

and i will be fine with a complete tear down rebuild..

i also think hornacek will be a better coach with that type of team, when you have 2 1 on 1 scorers it is very hard to run what you want to run

but he seems like the type of coach that needs a hardass top assistant to help keep things going smoothly. Not sure he did a good job of holding players accountable for bullshit work this year.

In comment 13427708 Ten Ton Hammer said:

Quote:

but he seems like the type of coach that needs a hardass top assistant to help keep things going smoothly. Not sure he did a good job of holding players accountable for bullshit work this year.

I think he was better with the young guys than the vets..

his best season in phoenix he had a great defensive assistant but cleveland would not let him leave for new york, if he becomes free wonder if hornacek tries to get him

according to j sports on gwitter, he sees knicks very interested in frank and have been doing extensive scouting on him recently...

frank this year, doncic next year, european super team!

He's destined to get booed and criticized on draft night, too. So be it. I got a good feeling about him.

Tommy Beer‏Verified account @TommyBeer 17h17 hours ago
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Bewildering that some folks still try to perpetuate the ridiculous myth that Knicks fans would be unwilling to accept a complete rebuild...
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Tommy Beer‏Verified account
@TommyBeer

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If any fanbase has proven they'd EMBRACE a rebuild, it's Knick fans.

NYK been terrible for 15 years, yet MSG still sells out every night.