NFT: Knicks, Jackson quietly pick up 2-year option

Only outdone by what a horrendous owner he is. The worst.

as Dolan is at his

He legitimately hates the fans and has no true connection to them. All he sees is fans saying he sucks, he doesn't know what he is doing, he should sell the team, and he is the worst owner in sports. He is delusional and he also doesn't care what we want as long as he makes money. On his rare radio appearance he ripped the fans and said he gave us exactly what we wanted in Jackson and it doesn't surprise me at all that he would extend him.


With all of that said, Phil has had his downs but I think he needs a chance to run this team without Melo influencing his decisions. I think if he is able to get rid of Melo then we can see this team start to mold to his vision. There are numerous things we can point to that are negatives with Phil from the coaching hires, to the stubborness of playing the triangle, to the NTC in Melo's contract, to Noah, etc. However, we should also focus on the positive with Porzingis, Hernangomez, Baker, etc.

Too many people have come into this franchise and have never been able to finish the job they were hired to do. Constant change is not always the answer. Sometimes a guy needs to get beaten down first before he is able to rise up to his true potential.

but i think its hilarious people ripped him for being to hands on and now he is letting phil run the team and not getting involved and he us getting ripped for thst..

dude can not win when it comes to that, the oakley stuff us a different animsl and i am not getting involved in that

In comment 13426351 nygiants16 said:

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but i think its hilarious people ripped him for being to hands on and now he is letting phil run the team and not getting involved and he us getting ripped for thst.. dude can not win when it comes to that, the oakley stuff us a different animsl and i am not getting involved in that

He will win with the fans when there is winning on the court. Before then, why exactly should fans back him? He's a terrible owner.

And win when they should lose. Phoenix, Twolves, Philly all know how to tank. Clearly, tanking is another thing this franchise does poorly.

The New York Knicks are definitively one of the four worst franchises in sports: Knicks, Browns, Sacramento Kings and NY Islanders.

Why people still go to Knick games is beyond me.

This team could turn it around fast with a PG who can pass & play defense against the quicker PG. That plus Porzingis plus a few decent players would be a playoff team next year & at least a start towards respectability. Unfortunately, winning a few meaningless games down the stretch this year may have dropped the team in the draft.

Can they get a good PG at 6 or 7th pick this year ?

In comment 13426370 PhilSimms15 said:

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And win when they should lose. Phoenix, Twolves, Philly all know how to tank. Clearly, tanking is another thing this franchise does poorly. The New York Knicks are definitively one of the four worst franchises in sports: Knicks, Browns, Sacramento Kings and NY Islanders. Why people still go to Knick games is beyond me.

wait, when you tank you are supposed have your worst players on the court right?

isnt that what the knicks did? so whay else did you want them to do, players will nevdr lose on purpose, so you are going to ask undrafted guys on non guaranteed deals to mail it in and risk their future? of course not those guys are going to play their butts off because they are playing for their career..

knicks had 4 undrafted free agents on the court in the 4th quarter down 10, what else did you want the knicks to do?

much to the dismay of his critics in the media. I'm actually excited for this summer - there's potential for a lot of positive change.

I'm sure that building is still full of Dolan's crony hires and sycophants. Look at the never ending shenanigans that surround the Knicks, you don't think there's a common theme there that goes beyond Jackson's short tenure?

Dolan will continue to be hated until all Dolan-esque behavior in MSG vanishes, which probably won't happen until he kicks the bucket.

how does the tie-break with Minnesota work?

I still don't understand why a lottery is performed for only the top 3 picks. Should be for every non-playoff pick.

.

In comment 13426419 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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.

And you can fully expect they'll lose that flip.

Trading Melo
Best landing spot might be Lakers. Hopefully get back Jordan Clarkson and a Second Rounder This clears about 14 million in cap space

Hitting a home run with the lottery pick and hopefully getting a bench player with one of their two second round picks

Not resigning Rose

Dumping Noah and his salary. Hopefully it's a medical retirement

Trading Lee and Oquinn for youth and or draft picks

Start the rebuild right now. Stink next year. Hit another home run in the lottery 2018

Rodriguez
James Johnson (if we trade Melo, I think he's been the 3rd best player in Miami this year)
Dion Waiters (likely too expensive but just to gauge his market)

James Johnson would help win games, so would hurt a tank but I love the fire he plays with and is always looking to pass. He played center for the heat in stretches.

In comment 13426489 Earl the goat said:

Quote:

Trading Melo Best landing spot might be Lakers. Hopefully get back Jordan Clarkson and a Second Rounder This clears about 14 million in cap space Hitting a home run with the lottery pick and hopefully getting a bench player with one of their two second round picks Not resigning Rose Dumping Noah and his salary. Hopefully it's a medical retirement Trading Lee and Oquinn for youth and or draft picks Start the rebuild right now. Stink next year. Hit another home run in the lottery 2018

I'd sign up for this. Even if they can't dump Noah.

We're stuck with Noah though. Hopefully trading Melo and Lee gets us a couple of first rounders in the next year or two. I hope Phil looks at this as having two years to put a solid young foundation in place.

I would be so bitter (notwithstanding my massive wealth) if th Knicks finally got a good point guard after shipping him off. He hasnt' had one good piont guard during his entire tenure with the Knicks. It has been a laughable list of gross injustice to the fans and to him (as a superstar who wanted to come here).

In comment 13426498 PaulBlakeTSU said:

Quote:

I would be so bitter (notwithstanding my massive wealth) if th Knicks finally got a good point guard after shipping him off. He hasnt' had one good piont guard during his entire tenure with the Knicks. It has been a laughable list of gross injustice to the fans and to him (as a superstar who wanted to come here).

Carmelo sank his own ship
First with forcing knicks to trade their whole team for them to Denver
Second with not getting along with Dantoni
Third with not getting along with Jeremy Lin
I'm sure there are other issues not talked about
I'm for one that has never been a Melo fan. Never will be
Selfish overrated and self proclaimed superstar that always had a me first attitude
He set this franchise back 5-7 years

Phil always had one foot out the door for the Lakers? Just another thing they completely missed, similar to Greg Monroe being a lock to sign here and Rambis being a lock to get the head coaching gig last summer.

although I acknowledge his warts.

I dont think his game needed a great PG. What he needed was another great player. That team was very dangerous when it was loaded up with guys like Amare and TC at the top of his game.

I've said it a lot, but Melo needed to be the #2 guy on a super team. Melo as LeBron's running mate would have won titles. Or Melo as the 1A to a Orlando-era Dwight Howard.

So should Melo be furious that the Knicks didnt get another star for him? I dont think so. It's hard to get those players. Melo didnt successfully recruit one here, and I think we know that stars play a big role in that process. The guys who are desperate for a title move -- LeBron, Durant etc. Melo chose to stay and didnt budge on his NTC this season (at least). He could have gotten to a contender if he wanted.

But why exactly didn't the AI/Melo combo work? I know they went to one WCF which is a feat in itself, but was the team dog shit outside those two? Kenyon martin was pretty decent too. Was that before Nene was there/good?

In comment 13426726 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

But why exactly didn't the AI/Melo combo work? I know they went to one WCF which is a feat in itself, but was the team dog shit outside those two? Kenyon martin was pretty decent too. Was that before Nene was there/good?

martin was always hurt in denver and karl hated him..

the nuggets lost only 1 series they were favored in and that is when george karl got sick, they were always knocked put by the spurs or lakers...

the reason melo and ai didnt work was because they did not play defense, they scored a bunch of points but never stopped anyone

they were up tempo fun to watch teams but they could never get over the hump of being a fun team that played hard

the Knicks
Link - ( New Window )

Knicks PG's under Melo:
The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others.

Him not getting along with Lin doesn't really say much considering Houston blew any offer out of the water (smartly thinking about marketing).

How did Melo force the Knicks to sell off the entire team? Other than him wanting to come to the Knicks, how did he impact who the Knicks gave up for him?

Melo has his warts. But he's an awesome player that didn't have an offensive facilitator on the team to make it work. I'll also always respect him for being the first name that comes up around the league when people ask "which stars do not flop?"

In comment 13426767 PaulBlakeTSU said:

Quote:

Knicks PG's under Melo: The best PG he had was two weeks of Linsanity. Other than that it was a year of drive-only, no-defense Rose, Toney Douglas, Fat Baron Davis, 40 year-old Kidd, Fat Ray Felton, 36 year-old Prigioni, 30-something Calderon, rookie Iman Shumpert, Shane Larkin, Tim Hardaway Jr., rookie Jerian Grant, and I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Him not getting along with Lin doesn't really say much considering Houston blew any offer out of the water (smartly thinking about marketing). Paul. Do you remember the FA period and new CBA when Melo was a FA Denver. He wanted MAX money so he forced the Knicks to trade for him prior to FA. He also threatened that if they didn't trade then he may not have signed with Knicks. So Dolan forced the trade on Walsh and Uri robbed the Knicks in that trade How did Melo force the Knicks to sell off the entire team? Other than him wanting to come to the Knicks, how did he impact who the Knicks gave up for him? Melo has his warts. But he's an awesome player that didn't have an offensive facilitator on the team to make it work. I'll also always respect him for being the first name that comes up around the league when people ask "which stars do not flop?"

article
Link - ( New Window )

he's not a winning player. He used to be a great scorer.

Deej, I think a bonafide center would have been the guy with Melo. A dynamic like Kobe and Shaq, but the difference is...you aren't winning a thing with your 2nd best "player" not playing defense.

Forget the PG, Melo would just get annoyed that the ball is in someone elses hands. Melo needed someone down low that attracted attention, IMO.

Allonzo Trier staying in school. A mild surprise given his late season helium #Knicks

The team was 6-1 with Melo and Lin after MDA was fired. Then Lin got hurt/decided to protect his future and that was the end of that.

on his off-season (including working with Dirk)
Link - ( New Window )

he just did so inconsistently. Westbrook isnt playing a lick of D this year, but will in the playoffs.

I think there is reason to believe that Melo would play defense during a title run. Especially with a guy like LeBron in his ear.

that KP will be a star. The guy has the desire to be great and he knows what he needs to do.

Very obviously, he's got to get stronger on his bottom half. ONce he does that, he will thrive. I'm excited to see the offense run through him consistently.

is not playing defense. To win, you need to play defense all the time. That's what winning teams do and that's what winning players do.

In comment 13427168 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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The team was 6-1 with Melo and Lin after MDA was fired. Then Lin got hurt/decided to protect his future and that was the end of that.

Melo ran MDA out of town. Got jealous of Lin and his popularity and ran him out of town too
Poison pill contract didn't matter to Dolan. When does he worry about money Look how Lin excited the City and filled the seats
Melo couldn't stand the attention

but I hate that Phil turned him into a sympathetic figure this season. Everyone knows a divorce is needed, no need to rub Melo's nose in it publicly.

according to a Minny reporter. That's gonna be hilarious.

In comment 13427217 Keith said:

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is not playing defense. To win, you need to play defense all the time. That's what winning teams do and that's what winning players do.

Well, the point is that there are some players who just cant defend. They dont have the athleticism or skill to do it. Prime Melo was capable.

Every player turns it on and off. When I was a kid in the 80s and 90s most of the league played at 80% effort most of the time (and there were articles about vets delivering this wisdom to rookies going all out). It's one of the reasons guys were playing 38 or more minutes a night. Now you see guys like Harden and Westbrook doing very little on defense in the regular season. Melo gets castigated for this because his defensive effort has been more lax than most. But lets not pretend that every other allstar is locked in every possession/game. That's bullshit. There are more bad defender stars than good defender stars during the regular season.

addressing the media at 2:30 tomorrow

In comment 13427412 DanMetroMan said:

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addressing the media at 2:30 tomorrow

It speaks! It speaks!

to turn the page, but that's even worse, Deej. He is clearly capable and chose not to. What message does that send to yoru teammates or even your opponent. He saved everythign for offense(only when he had the ball in his hands). There are plenty of winnings in history who were not good at defense, but they always tried.

you snarky piece of shit, tell Melo we are moving on, he's asking you to! He flat out said he only wants to stay if we are "committed to winning". Tell him we are rebuilding!!!!!!!!!!!

In comment 13427352 Earl the goat said:

Quote:

In comment 13427168 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: The team was 6-1 with Melo and Lin after MDA was fired. Then Lin got hurt/decided to protect his future and that was the end of that. Melo ran MDA out of town. Got jealous of Lin and his popularity and ran him out of town too Poison pill contract didn't matter to Dolan. When does he worry about money Look how Lin excited the City and filled the seats Melo couldn't stand the attention

Melo did run MDA out of town, yet the team responded by getting MUCH better with Mike Woodson as coach (and Woody is hardly Gregg Popovich).

However, Melo didn't even remotely run Lin out of town. Lin decided to take every last buck.

weighs in...
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13427426 Keith said:

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to turn the page, but that's even worse, Deej. He is clearly capable and chose not to. What message does that send to yoru teammates or even your opponent. He saved everythign for offense(only when he had the ball in his hands). There are plenty of winnings in history who were not good at defense, but they always tried.

And I've repeatedly said that the lack of defense and commitment to the offense/ball movement is why Melo cant be the main star of a title team. Your best player must be your leader, and Melo sets bad examples. What I think he would have succeeded as (both as a player and in terms of personality) is being a great 2nd star on a title competitive team.

In comment 13427440 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 13427352 Earl the goat said: Quote: In comment 13427168 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: The team was 6-1 with Melo and Lin after MDA was fired. Then Lin got hurt/decided to protect his future and that was the end of that. Melo ran MDA out of town. Got jealous of Lin and his popularity and ran him out of town too Poison pill contract didn't matter to Dolan. When does he worry about money Look how Lin excited the City and filled the seats Melo couldn't stand the attention Melo did run MDA out of town, yet the team responded by getting MUCH better with Mike Woodson as coach (and Woody is hardly Gregg Popovich). However, Melo didn't even remotely run Lin out of town. Lin decided to take every last buck.

Ever notice how Lin goes from team to team and no one breaks their back trying to retain him?

In comment 13427443 bceagle05 said:

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weighs in... Link - ( New Window )

Good overview and I don't think it's slanted at all. Melo was the biggest(aside from Jackson) problem with the Knicks this season and nothing can be accomplished unless he's shipped out. Other than that, we have the pieces to build something and this offseason is key.

In comment 13427443 bceagle05 said:

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weighs in... Link - ( New Window )

Clearly from Phil's perspective. So many excuses. Even the "Phil deserves the lionshare of the blame" part is a cop out -- his decisions "were made for worthy reasons" but somehow they backfired or were "decimated by a perpetual series of injuries". Yeah, to guys the Bulls moved on from because they were injury prone!

This passage is horrifying if this is from the mouth of Phil (though redeemed by Rosen saying Melo and Rose are goners):

Quote:

But there�s another reason why Jackson was forced to lure Melo back to New York: Knicks fans in the Big Apple are averse to any suggestion that their beloved team might be undertaking a rebuilding process. However, their reluctance to accept such a program can be entirely mitigated if a superstar player can be the focus of whatever enthusiasm they can muster. In whatever the arena � political, entertainment, and athletic � New York absolutely loves stars!

Melo is on the team next year then 2018 is a disaster before it even begins.

is that Melo and Rose are goners.

The part about Knicks fans being unwilling to deal with a rebuild angers me. REAL Knicks fans can handle it, but the folks who just go to the Garden to grab a couple of beers and hang with friends don't want it. "They just want to see a good game," according to Jimmy Dolan.

werent we all happy?

didnt the knicks get bettter?

and as for lin he ran himself out of town, he is selfish and only cares about himself, he has proven that over and over again...

the hint of pain he sits down no matter if he can play through it or not...

and the whole melo was jealous of lin was absolute bullshit, he played well for 2 weeks and then he was exposed, what did melo have to be jealous about? if you go back to that season melo finished thag season ten times bettrr than lin played...

right or wrong lin refusing to play in that miami playoff series at 85 percent when davis and shumpert got hurt left a bad taste in his teammates mouth

but the article wasn't slanted at all. Phil deserves the blame for signing Melo, but on the court, Melo is the biggest problem. The one thing he didn't do in that article was bash phil for the Noah deal which is the one thing he should have and could have bashed him for(other than Melo).

Phil made some calculated moves and none of them hurt our future prospects.

He was getting booed until Phil started lobbing Twitter grenades.

In comment 13427487 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

is that Melo and Rose are goners. The part about Knicks fans being unwilling to deal with a rebuild angers me. REAL Knicks fans can handle it, but the folks who just go to the Garden to grab a couple of beers and hang with friends don't want it. "They just want to see a good game," according to Jimmy Dolan.

the problem is the media feeds into this, if knicks trade melo, guaranteed the media will be talking about how the knicks will suck rather than them rebuilding the right way

In comment 13427487 bceagle05 said:

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is that Melo and Rose are goners. The part about Knicks fans being unwilling to deal with a rebuild angers me. REAL Knicks fans can handle it, but the folks who just go to the Garden to grab a couple of beers and hang with friends don't want it. "They just want to see a good game," according to Jimmy Dolan.

Yeah but it's reality. Look at last night. Anyone with a brain knows that we need to lose, but the fans are going nuts because they aren't "real" fans. They don't live and die with the team, they live and die with that moment. Such is reality in NY.

Quote:

In a season littered with low points, the 2016-17 New York Knicks appeared to find rock bottom on March 12. In Brooklyn, the 11-win Nets sank 14 3-pointers in the first half against the Knicks, effectively ending New York's playoff hopes in 24 painful minutes. And head coach Jeff Hornacek wasn't happy. Hornacek lit into the Knicks in the visitors locker room of the Barclays Center, and according to people familiar with the matter, Hornacek's diatribe was expletive-filled and delivered at a high decibel level. It's not uncommon for a coach to go off on his players after a pathetic showing. But what happened next was a bit surprising. Carmelo Anthony, whose default demeanor is relaxed and easygoing, responded with anger and expletives of his own. For those accustomed to seeing Anthony live by his oft-used idiom, "Stay Melo," it was jarring. Anthony's R-rated rant essentially questioned the direction of the entire organization, according to sources. Associate head coach Kurt Rambis fired back, calling out Anthony's effort on defense. Anthony responded again, but before things could devolve further, one Knick suggested that the players head back to the court and start warming up. So they did.

Begley - ( New Window )

worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol.

A very good but not GREAT scorer, and that's pretty much it. Add in the high salary, no-trade clause, and the opt-out that makes him an expiring contract, and you're getting very little in return. Like nothing, or Austin Rivers.

Im not in the room so I cant say with certainty who was the cause. But in particular I think Phil, Rose, starting midseason Lee and Jennings (cause or effect), and Horny and Melo (by their inaction) are the likely culprits.

In comment 13427524 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Quote: In a season littered with low points, the 2016-17 New York Knicks appeared to find rock bottom on March 12. In Brooklyn, the 11-win Nets sank 14 3-pointers in the first half against the Knicks, effectively ending New York's playoff hopes in 24 painful minutes. And head coach Jeff Hornacek wasn't happy. Hornacek lit into the Knicks in the visitors locker room of the Barclays Center, and according to people familiar with the matter, Hornacek's diatribe was expletive-filled and delivered at a high decibel level. It's not uncommon for a coach to go off on his players after a pathetic showing. But what happened next was a bit surprising. Carmelo Anthony, whose default demeanor is relaxed and easygoing, responded with anger and expletives of his own. For those accustomed to seeing Anthony live by his oft-used idiom, "Stay Melo," it was jarring. Anthony's R-rated rant essentially questioned the direction of the entire organization, according to sources. Associate head coach Kurt Rambis fired back, calling out Anthony's effort on defense. Anthony responded again, but before things could devolve further, one Knick suggested that the players head back to the court and start warming up. So they did. Begley - ( New Window )

so melo cursed out hornacek, no wonder this team went down the shitter

In comment 13427534 Deej said:

Quote:

Im not in the room so I cant say with certainty who was the cause. But in particular I think Phil, Rose, starting midseason Lee and Jennings (cause or effect), and Horny and Melo (by their inaction) are the likely culprits.

it seemed like they thought they could win because of the names in the room and them when ot started going south they turned on each other

but once they got on the court it became clear right away that it wasn't clicking. These guys are vets - they know what a good team looks, feels and plays like. Hell, even young KP knew there was trouble at 14-10. The bitterness probably simmered from there. I'm guessing Lee asks for a trade - he didn't sign here to rebuild.

In comment 13427539 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13427534 Deej said: Quote: Im not in the room so I cant say with certainty who was the cause. But in particular I think Phil, Rose, starting midseason Lee and Jennings (cause or effect), and Horny and Melo (by their inaction) are the likely culprits. it seemed like they thought they could win because of the names in the room and them when ot started going south they turned on each other

Maybe. An alternative story might by that KP was their best player, they were over 500 until he got hurt, and then with his injury they collapsed. When Noah went down things got even worse. Two best attitude guys and two defensive bigs (I think KP is unfairly maligned here for his D) go down and never recover, which just murdered the season when the perimeter guys werent keeping anyone out of the paint or defending PnRs correctly.

I think that's exactly what happened in the locker room.

In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol.

What is a "good return" though? Would he even get a 2yr/$50M deal on the open market if he was an FA? I guess Wade got something clsoe to that but it's hard to see there being much "surplus" value there.

In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol.

I think part of the "never rebuild" stuff in the Rosen piece could be a planted "leak" to back up Phil's bargaining position in trades/with Melo this summer. It's a tightrope to walk -- he needs to move Melo but cant be too desperate lest Melo (and trading partners) put the screws to him.

Although as I've said, I'll buy that there is a rebuild when they come out and say "this is a rebuilding/development year".

In comment 13427550 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said: Quote: worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol. What is a "good return" though? Would he even get a 2yr/$50M deal on the open market if he was an FA? I guess Wade got something clsoe to that but it's hard to see there being much "surplus" value there.

In a "realistic" but still "best case" scenario? Youngish assets that aren't signed to stupid deals that we know suck (aka not Austin Rivers) and picks before 2022 (ideally more than one). Austin Rivers absolutely sucks. Somehow this narrative of a breakout formed because he was taking a lot of shots with Paul out. He posted a WS/48 of 0.59 this season (DOWN from the previous season 0.63) for context Kuz .57, Randle .108, Thomas .046. He's a bad player going into his 5th NBA season

In comment 13427524 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Quote: In a season littered with low points, the 2016-17 New York Knicks appeared to find rock bottom on March 12. In Brooklyn, the 11-win Nets sank 14 3-pointers in the first half against the Knicks, effectively ending New York's playoff hopes in 24 painful minutes. And head coach Jeff Hornacek wasn't happy. Hornacek lit into the Knicks in the visitors locker room of the Barclays Center, and according to people familiar with the matter, Hornacek's diatribe was expletive-filled and delivered at a high decibel level. It's not uncommon for a coach to go off on his players after a pathetic showing. But what happened next was a bit surprising. Carmelo Anthony, whose default demeanor is relaxed and easygoing, responded with anger and expletives of his own. For those accustomed to seeing Anthony live by his oft-used idiom, "Stay Melo," it was jarring. Anthony's R-rated rant essentially questioned the direction of the entire organization, according to sources. Associate head coach Kurt Rambis fired back, calling out Anthony's effort on defense. Anthony responded again, but before things could devolve further, one Knick suggested that the players head back to the court and start warming up. So they did. Begley - ( New Window )

The worst part of that story IMO is that Kurt Rambis is still around to say anything at all.

The Knicks fell apart one night in Phoenix during a west coast trip and the season was never the same. A few weeks later, KP, their best player, got hurt and the team cratered.

I remember Chriss got a little aggressive with KP and KP responded by completely taking over the game in the fourth quarter. It was great to see. But they still managed to give away a late lead.

In comment 13427550 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said: Quote: worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol. What is a "good return" though? Would he even get a 2yr/$50M deal on the open market if he was an FA? I guess Wade got something clsoe to that but it's hard to see there being much "surplus" value there.

I think he would, with the cap raise certainly. Wade is a precedent. Howard at 70/3 is a precedent kind of. Issue is that the elite, elite teams will want to pay less. E.g. Gasol leaving some $$ behind to sign with SAS. So you'd have to find a match of a team like ATL or CHI from last offseason -- not rebuilding, not able to force a discount.

Also, it's less risky. Lets compare (without hindsight) whether you'd want Melo at Wade's price vs. some of the deals handed out last offseason. Conley 153/5. Batum 120/5. Beal 128/5. Parsons 94/4. Bazemore 70/4. The centers (incl. Noah, Biyambo, Mahinmi, Moz). Luol 72/4. Ryan Anderson 80/4. Turner 70/4. Even the RFAs got paid (Fournier, Crabbee etc). Free agency is CRAZY expensive, and only going up this offseason. Melo for 50/2 is a decent bet next to those contracts. All depends on how you plan on hiding his defense.

In comment 13427559 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13427550 Metnut said: Quote: In comment 13427529 DanMetroMan said: Quote: worst part is going to be people trying to convince themselves that not only is Melo being gone good (it will be) but that Austin Rivers and a 2021 1st is an actual good return lol. What is a "good return" though? Would he even get a 2yr/$50M deal on the open market if he was an FA? I guess Wade got something clsoe to that but it's hard to see there being much "surplus" value there. In a "realistic" but still "best case" scenario? Youngish assets that aren't signed to stupid deals that we know suck (aka not Austin Rivers) and picks before 2022 (ideally more than one). Austin Rivers absolutely sucks. Somehow this narrative of a breakout formed because he was taking a lot of shots with Paul out. He posted a WS/48 of 0.59 this season (DOWN from the previous season 0.63) for context Kuz .57, Randle .108, Thomas .046. He's a bad player going into his 5th NBA season

Shhh. You'll fuck up Saric's ROY candidacy (KIDDING)

In comment 13427492 nygiants16 said:

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werent we all happy? didnt the knicks get bettter? and as for lin he ran himself out of town, he is selfish and only cares about himself, he has proven that over and over again... the hint of pain he sits down no matter if he can play through it or not... How do you know who was happy when Dantoni got fired Dolan ruined that team with the Melo trade and set the franchise back years Look at Dantoni now. He's one of the top coaches in the league And regarding Melo. You haven't been right regarding anything about Melo in 6 years and only this year have you said that it's time to go Bringing him to NY just really backfired Dolan should take complete blame for the wretched mess this franchise is in I'm not a Melo hater. I think he's a fine human being Great husband and father but a selfish basketball player and a me first attitude and the whole melo was jealous of lin was absolute bullshit, he played well for 2 weeks and then he was exposed, what did melo have to be jealous about? if you go back to that season melo finished thag season ten times bettrr than lin played... right or wrong lin refusing to play in that miami playoff series at 85 percent when davis and shumpert got hurt left a bad taste in his teammates mouth

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In comment 13427593 Greg from LI said:

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+1. If Rivers has positive value, get a 3rd team involved and let them give us something for Rivers.

To defend him to this day.

Knick fans want a complete rebuild. No one cares about a good game. Dolan is a complete moron who has destroyed the franchise.

and i will be fine with a complete tear down rebuild..

i also think hornacek will be a better coach with that type of team, when you have 2 1 on 1 scorers it is very hard to run what you want to run

but he seems like the type of coach that needs a hardass top assistant to help keep things going smoothly. Not sure he did a good job of holding players accountable for bullshit work this year.

In comment 13427708 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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but he seems like the type of coach that needs a hardass top assistant to help keep things going smoothly. Not sure he did a good job of holding players accountable for bullshit work this year.

I think he was better with the young guys than the vets..

his best season in phoenix he had a great defensive assistant but cleveland would not let him leave for new york, if he becomes free wonder if hornacek tries to get him

according to j sports on gwitter, he sees knicks very interested in frank and have been doing extensive scouting on him recently...

frank this year, doncic next year, european super team!

He's destined to get booed and criticized on draft night, too. So be it. I got a good feeling about him.

Tommy Beer‏Verified account @TommyBeer 17h17 hours ago
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Bewildering that some folks still try to perpetuate the ridiculous myth that Knicks fans would be unwilling to accept a complete rebuild...
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Tommy Beer‏Verified account
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If any fanbase has proven they'd EMBRACE a rebuild, it's Knick fans.

NYK been terrible for 15 years, yet MSG still sells out every night.