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NFT: We just bombed Afghanistan...

Slade : 4/13/2017 1:01 pm
Shit just got real...
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RE: as a random aside  
schabadoo : 4/13/2017 3:57 pm : link
In comment 13427339 mfsd said:
Quote:
in the last week, we've had al qaeda cheering our missile strike in Syria, and now we've dropped a massive bomb on an ISIS group that's been fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan

don't mean to be political, just confess to being a little cynical - I sure hope someone is keeping track of everyone we're fighting in all these different places


That's what I was driving at: the acts themselves are what's important here, not the specific strategic implications.

We bombed Afghanistan all last year  
Vanzetti : 4/13/2017 4:14 pm : link
also Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya

I think it was 30k bombs total, done mostly with drones
RE: We bombed Afghanistan all last year  
mfsd : 4/13/2017 4:31 pm : link
In comment 13427452 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
also Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya

I think it was 30k bombs total, done mostly with drones


Somalia, Yemen...
RE: as a random aside  
RC02XX : 4/13/2017 4:33 pm : link
In comment 13427339 mfsd said:
Quote:
in the last week, we've had al qaeda cheering our missile strike in Syria, and now we've dropped a massive bomb on an ISIS group that's been fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan

don't mean to be political, just confess to being a little cynical - I sure hope someone is keeping track of everyone we're fighting in all these different places


There are hundreds of thousands of people, who are doing exactly that. The political and strategic issues of these are one thing but the actual on the ground and support functions of these conflicts are whole another thing.
RE: RE: as a random aside  
mfsd : 4/13/2017 4:42 pm : link
In comment 13427501 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 13427339 mfsd said:


Quote:


in the last week, we've had al qaeda cheering our missile strike in Syria, and now we've dropped a massive bomb on an ISIS group that's been fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan

don't mean to be political, just confess to being a little cynical - I sure hope someone is keeping track of everyone we're fighting in all these different places



There are hundreds of thousands of people, who are doing exactly that. The political and strategic issues of these are one thing but the actual on the ground and support functions of these conflicts are whole another thing.


Oh I have no doubt, in no way did I mean to be critical - as someone who serves, I have the utmost respect for the job you and everyone involved in these operations does every day.

Moreso a general comment on how crazy the world is that we're fighting multiple sides who are also fighting each other in some of these places
Oh...not offended or anything at all...  
RC02XX : 4/13/2017 4:49 pm : link
I was actually agreeing with you that it's a crazy world, but thankfully we have pretty good group of people that do these kinds of things everyday. And many of them are ones I've trained over the years.
We just bombed Afghanistan? And other than the size  
Blue21 : 4/13/2017 4:56 pm : link
what else's new? We lost a soldier there last week too. Who new?
RE: We just bombed Afghanistan? And other than the size  
schabadoo : 4/13/2017 5:11 pm : link
In comment 13427544 Blue21 said:
Quote:
what else's new? We lost a soldier there last week too. Who new?


Yes, except for the fact that 'the weapon is the largest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. arsenal and has never before been used in combat', it was a regular Thursday.
RE: We bombed Afghanistan all last year  
Patrick77 : 4/13/2017 5:58 pm : link
In comment 13427452 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
also Syria, Iraq, Pakistan, Libya

I think it was 30k bombs total, done mostly with drones


Gotta let the big dog eat.
RE: RE: We just bombed Afghanistan? And other than the size  
Deej : 4/13/2017 6:09 pm : link
In comment 13427566 schabadoo said:
Quote:
In comment 13427544 Blue21 said:


Quote:


what else's new? We lost a soldier there last week too. Who new?



Yes, except for the fact that 'the weapon is the largest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. arsenal and has never before been used in combat', it was a regular Thursday.


you get the sense nothing changed except someone wanted to try this weapon out for today's installment.
RE: RE: RE: We just bombed Afghanistan? And other than the size  
Blue21 : 4/13/2017 9:37 pm : link
In comment 13427660 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13427566 schabadoo said:


Quote:


In comment 13427544 Blue21 said:


Quote:


what else's new? We lost a soldier there last week too. Who new?



Yes, except for the fact that 'the weapon is the largest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. arsenal and has never before been used in combat', it was a regular Thursday.



you get the sense nothing changed except someone wanted to try this weapon out for today's installment.


exactly
It's a great way to change the news cycle  
Ron Johnson 30 : 4/13/2017 10:12 pm : link
.
Some of you guys are just too damn cynical about shit...  
RC02XX : 4/13/2017 10:17 pm : link
So we dropped a bomb that we've never dropped before. Big deal. Based on the target and the intended effects of the bombing, there are actual military purposes for using this weapon system that aren't for some ulterior political purpose.
RE: Some of you guys are just too damn cynical about shit...  
section125 : 4/13/2017 10:28 pm : link
In comment 13427961 RC02XX said:
Quote:
So we dropped a bomb that we've never dropped before. Big deal. Based on the target and the intended effects of the bombing, there are actual military purposes for using this weapon system that aren't for some ulterior political purpose.


They need to stop looking for excuses, it is getting old and stupid.
This bomb was planned during the Obama administration  
George from PA : 4/13/2017 11:01 pm : link
So nothing to do with politics
we have many bombs. they are the greatest bombs..  
Davisian : 4/14/2017 12:16 am : link
Some of my best friends are bombs. they always tell me "you have the best bombs." It was the biggest landslide in history, of bombs... Did you par that hole?


16 million cost of the bomb  
xman : 4/14/2017 12:36 am : link
target practice
So did it do what it was supposed to do?  
732NYG : 4/14/2017 3:17 am : link
It's not like we aren't cutting other services because they supposedly aren't getting results.
RE: So did it do what it was supposed to do?  
J : 4/14/2017 5:37 am : link
In comment 13428082 732NYG said:
Quote:
It's not like we aren't cutting other services because they supposedly aren't getting results.


killed 36 militants apparently
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-39598046 - ( New Window )
RE: we have many bombs. they are the greatest bombs..  
Ron Johnson 30 : 4/14/2017 8:58 am : link
In comment 13428033 Davisian said:
Quote:
Some of my best friends are bombs. they always tell me "you have the best bombs." It was the biggest landslide in history, of bombs... Did you par that hole?



I told "my" military, while eating the most beautiful chocolate cake, it was the most beautiful thing, I alone can fix this, but they told me ISIS was in Afghanistan, I saw it on Fox and Friends, who knew it would be so hard, they're everywhere,
J  
Bill2 : 4/14/2017 9:09 am : link
Have not seen you post in ages. Hope you are well.
RE: RE: RE: We just bombed Afghanistan? And other than the size  
njm : 4/14/2017 10:22 am : link
In comment 13427660 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13427566 schabadoo said:


Quote:


In comment 13427544 Blue21 said:


Quote:


what else's new? We lost a soldier there last week too. Who new?



Yes, except for the fact that 'the weapon is the largest non-nuclear bomb in the U.S. arsenal and has never before been used in combat', it was a regular Thursday.



you get the sense nothing changed except someone wanted to try this weapon out for today's installment.


No. I think this was a combination of opportunity and a resource that was available. And one wonders, at least I do, how history might have been different if this bomb had been available in late 2001- early 2002.
RE: RE: we have many bombs. they are the greatest bombs..  
Greg from LI : 4/14/2017 10:56 am : link
In comment 13428166 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
I told "my" military, while eating the most beautiful chocolate cake, it was the most beautiful thing, I alone can fix this, but they told me ISIS was in Afghanistan, I saw it on Fox and Friends, who knew it would be so hard, they're everywhere,


Leaving aside the rest of it, it's kind of hard to mock Trump for saying "my military" when Obama did that all the time as well.
Also, Duffle Blog shoots and scores!  
Greg from LI : 4/14/2017 10:58 am : link
Quote:
“You mean to tell me that we’re still at war in Afghanistan? The country we invaded almost 16 years ago after 9/11?” asked Benjamin Martin, a financial advisor who, like most Americans, supports the troops 100% in their fight against the terrorists or whatever.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: Also, Duffle Blog shoots and scores!  
x meadowlander : 4/14/2017 11:21 am : link
In comment 13428381 Greg from LI said:
Quote:


Quote:


“You mean to tell me that we’re still at war in Afghanistan? The country we invaded almost 16 years ago after 9/11?” asked Benjamin Martin, a financial advisor who, like most Americans, supports the troops 100% in their fight against the terrorists or whatever.

Link - ( New Window )
There is truth to that - American military has been far more active than the public is aware or would likely support. Same goes for FMS stuff - recent outrage over sale of F-16's to Bahrain when we've been like Oprah with the availability of those and many other systems to other nations.
Nothing wrong with being skeptical of military force...  
Dunedin81 : 4/14/2017 11:25 am : link
but be consistent in your skepticism. It should not ebb and flow based on who is in the White House, because frankly this President and the last two may have differed in tone but in execution they've done a lot of the same things.
So for what the bomb cost,  
732NYG : 4/14/2017 11:26 am : link
we killed 36 fighters. Lol just have to laugh...
:)  
x meadowlander : 4/14/2017 11:38 am : link
RE: Nothing wrong with being skeptical of military force...  
Ron Johnson 30 : 4/14/2017 12:08 pm : link
In comment 13428426 Dunedin81 said:
Quote:
but be consistent in your skepticism. It should not ebb and flow based on who is in the White House, because frankly this President and the last two may have differed in tone but in execution they've done a lot of the same things.


That's odd. In 2013 80 % of Republicans were opposed to action against Assad. Now 80 % supported it. What changed?
RE: Some of you guys are just too damn cynical about shit...  
Blue21 : 4/14/2017 12:17 pm : link
In comment 13427961 RC02XX said:
Quote:
So we dropped a bomb that we've never dropped before. Big deal. Based on the target and the intended effects of the bombing, there are actual military purposes for using this weapon system that aren't for some ulterior political purpose.


Ron I hope you didn't take my post as cynical. I wasn't trying to be. The bomb fit the purpose, we've been bombing right along, so it's business as usual as far as I'm concerned. Use what you got Nuclear weapons aside obviously.
RE: So for what the bomb cost,  
RC02XX : 4/14/2017 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13428427 732NYG said:
Quote:
we killed 36 fighters. Lol just have to laugh...


This kind of mentality is what's wrong with people. The cost of a munition or weapons system shouldn't be the determining factor of the effectiveness of an operation or an attack.

By this logic, the mere fact that we're still maintaining carrier battle groups (which cost hundreds of millions of dollars to operate annually) is the worst form of ROI.

And removing these 36 fighters from the battlespace may result in the saving of hundreds of civilian, Afghan security, and coalition force personnel. But hey, we should have higher body count, right?
RE: RE: Nothing wrong with being skeptical of military force...  
Dunedin81 : 4/14/2017 12:23 pm : link
In comment 13428499 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
In comment 13428426 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


but be consistent in your skepticism. It should not ebb and flow based on who is in the White House, because frankly this President and the last two may have differed in tone but in execution they've done a lot of the same things.



That's odd. In 2013 80 % of Republicans were opposed to action against Assad. Now 80 % supported it. What changed?


My admonition is not a partisan one. My feelings about the present occupant of the office have been made clear.
RE: RE: Some of you guys are just too damn cynical about shit...  
RC02XX : 4/14/2017 12:26 pm : link
In comment 13428519 Blue21 said:
Quote:
In comment 13427961 RC02XX said:


Quote:


So we dropped a bomb that we've never dropped before. Big deal. Based on the target and the intended effects of the bombing, there are actual military purposes for using this weapon system that aren't for some ulterior political purpose.



Ron I hope you didn't take my post as cynical. I wasn't trying to be. The bomb fit the purpose, we've been bombing right along, so it's business as usual as far as I'm concerned. Use what you got Nuclear weapons aside obviously.


It wasn't your comment I was responding to as much as people turning this into some political nonsense about news cycles, etc. Sorry if it came off as me responding to you.
RE: RE: So for what the bomb cost,  
buford : 4/14/2017 12:27 pm : link
In comment 13428528 RC02XX said:
Quote:
In comment 13428427 732NYG said:


Quote:


we killed 36 fighters. Lol just have to laugh...



This kind of mentality is what's wrong with people. The cost of a munition or weapons system shouldn't be the determining factor of the effectiveness of an operation or an attack.

By this logic, the mere fact that we're still maintaining carrier battle groups (which cost hundreds of millions of dollars to operate annually) is the worst form of ROI.

And removing these 36 fighters from the battlespace may result in the saving of hundreds of civilian, Afghan security, and coalition force personnel. But hey, we should have higher body count, right?


Plus it wasn't just to kill some Isis fighters, it was to destroy the tunnel networks. And send a message.
RE: RE: Nothing wrong with being skeptical of military force...  
BigBlueShock : 4/14/2017 12:30 pm : link
In comment 13428499 Ron Johnson 30 said:
Quote:
In comment 13428426 Dunedin81 said:


Quote:


but be consistent in your skepticism. It should not ebb and flow based on who is in the White House, because frankly this President and the last two may have differed in tone but in execution they've done a lot of the same things.



That's odd. In 2013 80 % of Republicans were opposed to action against Assad. Now 80 % supported it. What changed?

You're trying really hard to get this thread nuked with your political agenda. We get it. Republicans all suck and Democrats are awesome. There, we got it out of the way.
Sorry I don't agree that this was a responsible use of our  
732NYG : 4/14/2017 12:33 pm : link
resources. When everyday, we hear or cuts to things like PBS, services for the poor and impoverished, women's services, environmental protections, education, the list goes on and on, because certain individuals feel that they are not "getting results," for what we pay for. Then you turn around and spend 16 MILLION on a single bomb to kill 36 fighters. Everytime you hear someone ask "where is the money going to come from?" in regards to funding services that actually help the American people, its hard not to laugh when they have no problem spending absurd amounts of money on military ordinance.
Honest question  
Giantology : 4/14/2017 12:35 pm : link
Won't ISIS get more recruiting out of that bomb being dropped to replace the 36 they just lost?
RE: Honest question  
section125 : 4/14/2017 1:42 pm : link
In comment 13428557 Giantology said:
Quote:
Won't ISIS get more recruiting out of that bomb being dropped to replace the 36 they just lost?


That would be the mantra. But WRATGAS, I believe their recruiting is way down since they have been getting their asses kicked.
RE: Honest question  
RC02XX : 4/14/2017 1:47 pm : link
In comment 13428557 Giantology said:
Quote:
Won't ISIS get more recruiting out of that bomb being dropped to replace the 36 they just lost?


They can try to get more recruits, but ISKP isn't much liked in the country already, so getting new recruits isn't nearly as easy as it may be for groups like the Taliban.
RE: Sorry I don't agree that this was a responsible use of our  
RC02XX : 4/14/2017 1:55 pm : link
In comment 13428551 732NYG said:
Quote:
resources. When everyday, we hear or cuts to things like PBS, services for the poor and impoverished, women's services, environmental protections, education, the list goes on and on, because certain individuals feel that they are not "getting results," for what we pay for. Then you turn around and spend 16 MILLION on a single bomb to kill 36 fighters. Everytime you hear someone ask "where is the money going to come from?" in regards to funding services that actually help the American people, its hard not to laugh when they have no problem spending absurd amounts of money on military ordinance.


Eh...there is merit to criticizing the military industrial complex since we all know that there are abundant amount of issues. But to rail against a military operations use of an already developed weapon system seems to miss the point of military operations and their purpose.

Fighting wars is expensive, especially when you are the most sophisticated military in the world. Would the world be better if we didn't have conflicts and wars? Of course, but we do. And it's best to ensure your military is supplied with the best weapons and equipment available. The whole political nature of your gripe is duly noted, but it's throwing your ire in the wrong direction.
RE: Sorry I don't agree that this was a responsible use of our  
section125 : 4/14/2017 1:56 pm : link
In comment 13428551 732NYG said:
Quote:
resources. When everyday, we hear or cuts to things like PBS, services for the poor and impoverished, women's services, environmental protections, education, the list goes on and on, because certain individuals feel that they are not "getting results," for what we pay for. Then you turn around and spend 16 MILLION on a single bomb to kill 36 fighters. Everytime you hear someone ask "where is the money going to come from?" in regards to funding services that actually help the American people, its hard not to laugh when they have no problem spending absurd amounts of money on military ordinance.


I'll ignore the politcal view, but I seriously doubt 10 tons of explosives and a couple tons of iron costs 18 times as much as a Tomahawk cruise missile. No cost for guidance, no cost for a motor and fuel...
This is a dumb bomb, a very big dumb bomb, but still a dumb bomb. All it had was an altimeter detonator.

That number has to include the cost of development.
RE: Honest question  
Deej : 4/14/2017 2:01 pm : link
In comment 13428557 Giantology said:
Quote:
Won't ISIS get more recruiting out of that bomb being dropped to replace the 36 they just lost?


It is impossible to play this guessing game. But the extension of this argument is that killing terrorists and their ilk just makes more terrorists. It is inherently defeatist.

I also think there is a lot more going on in the decision be be ISIS or AQ etc than just "well that attack happened". I mean, what is the thought process? "I was going to run a shop when death from above was just in small 1000-2000 lbs bombs, but now that it is by 10 ton bombs, well sign me up!"

Attacks that "make more terrorists" are probably the erroneous attacks. The ones with civilian deaths and damage to the property of the innocent.
RE: RE: Sorry I don't agree that this was a responsible use of our  
Deej : 4/14/2017 2:07 pm : link
In comment 13428700 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13428551 732NYG said:


Quote:


resources. When everyday, we hear or cuts to things like PBS, services for the poor and impoverished, women's services, environmental protections, education, the list goes on and on, because certain individuals feel that they are not "getting results," for what we pay for. Then you turn around and spend 16 MILLION on a single bomb to kill 36 fighters. Everytime you hear someone ask "where is the money going to come from?" in regards to funding services that actually help the American people, its hard not to laugh when they have no problem spending absurd amounts of money on military ordinance.



I'll ignore the politcal view, but I seriously doubt 10 tons of explosives and a couple tons of iron costs 18 times as much as a Tomahawk cruise missile. No cost for guidance, no cost for a motor and fuel...
This is a dumb bomb, a very big dumb bomb, but still a dumb bomb. All it had was an altimeter detonator.

That number has to include the cost of development.


This is correct. The number being reported is BS. The military has no idea what a marginal MOAB costs because the military manufactures them, and costs arent tracked like that for self-made ordinance. The $300+ million program cost includes the penetrator bomb, which is similarly named but a more sophisticated, smaller weapon.

Although I wouldnt assume that a 20k lbs bomb is the same prices as 10 2k lbs bombs. The bigger bomb is likely more complicated to manufacture and suffers from lack of economy of scale.

I think it is fair to ask whether we used this massive bomb when multiple smaller bombs would suffice. I have seen articles suggesting that a load of smaller bombs out of a B52 is basically superior. Not sure if that is right.
RE: :)  
Del Shofner : 4/14/2017 2:12 pm : link
In comment 13428438 x meadowlander said:
Quote:


OK, took a minute but I laughed ...
I think the media focus on the MOAB is weird.  
x meadowlander : 4/14/2017 2:19 pm : link
Since July, 2015, Air Force has been dropping on average over 2,000 bombs per month - in Syria alone!!!

But Trump dropping one big one gets the press. Nobody really notices anything else.

We're living in a bizarre Orwell novel.


Previous administration was not cutting everything  
732NYG : 4/14/2017 2:32 pm : link
that the current on is in the name of fiscal responsibility.
If a domestic policy fails...  
Dunedin81 : 4/14/2017 3:26 pm : link
people will undoubtedly suffer. If a foreign policy fails, especially WRT Syria and North Korea, the fallout could be catastrophic, for our population, for our servicemembers, and potentially for people in other parts of the world. It'd be nice if we could view these things through the lens of whether these decisions are good or bad rather than whether we like the man at the top influencing the policy.

For instance, whether what is going on in and around NK right now is good policy or bad, the potential implications of it should something go awry are terrifying, especially for the people of Seoul and its environs. I'm much more interested in that than whether we dropped one 21,000 lb bomb or 21 thousand-pound bombs on a sparsely populated part of Afghanistan and the Seventh Century cretins who are gathering there.
RE: Previous administration was not cutting everything  
section125 : 4/14/2017 3:48 pm : link
In comment 13428740 732NYG said:
Quote:
that the current on is in the name of fiscal responsibility.


Get off it, nobody cares and your attempts to provoke are unappreciated because you are wrong. The two are mutually exclusive.
RE: RE: Previous administration was not cutting everything  
732NYG : 4/14/2017 3:54 pm : link
In comment 13428836 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 13428740 732NYG said:


Quote:


that the current on is in the name of fiscal responsibility.



Get off it, nobody cares and your attempts to provoke are unappreciated because you are wrong. The two are mutually exclusive.


Not provoking anything. If the situations were the same, you would have heard a lot of people speaking up about the drone war and such. The situations are completely different though, so for you to act like people having an issue with this is surprising is laughable. And mutually exclusive? Seriously? It is inherently political whether you like to admit it or not.
RE: RE: RE: Previous administration was not cutting everything  
ctc in ftmyers : 4/14/2017 7:26 pm : link
In comment 13428851 732NYG said:
Quote:
In comment 13428836 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 13428740 732NYG said:


Quote:


that the current on is in the name of fiscal responsibility.



Get off it, nobody cares and your attempts to provoke are unappreciated because you are wrong. The two are mutually exclusive.



Not provoking anything. If the situations were the same, you would have heard a lot of people speaking up about the drone war and such. The situations are completely different though, so for you to act like people having an issue with this is surprising is laughable. And mutually exclusive? Seriously? It is inherently political whether you like to admit it or not.


Here we go. I don't know why I should do this.

It's all foreign policy related and all the big guns from both sides of the Isle are pretty much in step.

If you take the blinders off. 1 started this path, actually way before that but an easy reference, 2 followed it, and 3 is going down the same path.

If you take the rose colored partisan glasses off, it's not hard to figure out or you not paying attention.

It's a big world out there.

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