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NFT: Knicks Chat: Melo open to other teams?

DanMetroMan : 4/14/2017 7:54 am
Anthony didn’t suggest he would limit his potential destinations to just playing in Cleveland or Los Angeles with his buddies, LeBron James and Chris Paul. Though he hated the Celtics as a kid, Anthony probably can envision himself in green with the No. 1-seeded team in the Eastern Conference from Boston. A hat collector, Anthony already has some greenish-colored chapeaus. When he was asked in February at TD Garden if it would be strange to play for Boston, Anthony said, “Maybe strange to you.’’

And what about the Wizards? They are his true hometown team, which could use a dynamic small forward to pair with a sizzling backcourt of John Wall and Bradley Beal. Anthony, who moved from Brooklyn to Baltimore at age 9, may even adore anti-triangle coach Scott Brooks, who joked at the Garden last week that “I just run one play.
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The roster  
Jon in NYC : 4/16/2017 11:57 am : link
makeup isn't dire.

They have two real building blocks in Willy and KP.

They will add a 3rd in the draft. They should add a 4th with a Melo trade.

All of a sudden if they play it well they should have a core 4 guys to build around with no bad contracts on the books other than Noahs.
But I agree about the dysfunction.  
bceagle05 : 4/16/2017 11:57 am : link
When your team sucks, it's better to quietly suck.
RE: The roster  
nygiants16 : 4/16/2017 12:22 pm : link
In comment 13430182 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
makeup isn't dire.

They have two real building blocks in Willy and KP.

They will add a 3rd in the draft. They should add a 4th with a Melo trade.

All of a sudden if they play it well they should have a core 4 guys to build around with no bad contracts on the books other than Noahs.


and then if all goes 1 more year of being in the lottery, maybe get lucky and get doncic or porter jr
Even with the expectation  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 12:47 pm : link
that KP and WH make jumps next season, it's hard to envision next year's winning % being drastically different than this year. Rose/Melo weren't the best but they won us a handful games.

I also expect teams like Phoenix, MIN, and Philly to make drastic improvements. Hopefully the Lakers do something to get better. I think a top 5 pick in 2018 is a reasonable expectation.
RE: The roster  
Sgrcts : 4/16/2017 12:48 pm : link
In comment 13430182 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
makeup isn't dire.

They have two real building blocks in Willy and KP.

They will add a 3rd in the draft. They should add a 4th with a Melo trade.

All of a sudden if they play it well they should have a core 4 guys to build around with no bad contracts on the books other than Noahs.


Willy is not a real building block, not as of yet. I'm a huge Wily fan but to call him a building block is crazy, especially since he still might be blocking KP's true position. He might be best as the first big man off the bench ala Kanter. He can be a piece of a winning team, but a big man with the type of defense he plays has a long way to go before he's a building block.
Also  
Sgrcts : 4/16/2017 12:49 pm : link
if the Knicks are looking at deals like Austin Rivers for Melo, don't expect a building block for Melo either.

Knicks REALLY need the Cavs and Celtics to woefully underperform this playoffs.
They would've made the Clips deal at the deadline  
bceagle05 : 4/16/2017 12:53 pm : link
if all they wanted was Rivers. If they turn around and do the same deal this summer that'll be a massive failure.
RE: You're in a  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/16/2017 1:03 pm : link
In comment 13430123 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
boat without a paddle my friend.

Time to call a spade a spade. Other than drafting KP, almost every move Phil has made has been an epic blunder.


This Jackson other than KP and Willy is a total disaster. Just as bad as Isaiah. Sorry but havin Kobe amd Shaw ans Jordan and Pippen has jist addled the minds of too many. He's part of those successes but his whole fixation w the triangle is a joke. It would be like Jerry Reese forcing McAdoo to run the triple option.

Forget fellow Knick fans. We are still fucked for years to come
We need more  
Phil in LA : 4/16/2017 2:42 pm : link
Picks.
At this point  
colin : 4/16/2017 2:58 pm : link
I can't foresee the Knicks being able to keep KP past his rookie contract.
He'll probably  
Phil in LA : 4/16/2017 3:00 pm : link
Stay. Changes are coming.
RE: At this point  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 3:10 pm : link
In comment 13430292 colin said:
Quote:
I can't foresee the Knicks being able to keep KP past his rookie contract.


And where is reasonable historical evidence for that? The only 1st rounders that don't stay with a team past their rookie deal are teams that don't want to pay them (e.g. Monroe) or that are traded.

KP will stay in NY if the only reason is receiving the max extension when it becomes available or extending him 5 years $200M when hes a RFA. There's really no precedent for what you are suggesting.
giantsfan  
colin : 4/16/2017 3:35 pm : link
Maybe I'm just being doom and gloom, but he's already had 3 coaches, and the Knicks are, objectively, one of the poorest run franchises in sports right now, and I don't see that improving. Watching the way Melo has been treated, the disarray the team is in with no real light at the end of the tunnel, and the fact that KP has, in many different ways, shown his that he has a desire to achieve greatness, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities for him to take a pay cut to be on a team with a future.

A lot can change over the next few years. And truthfully, I didn't know that it would be "unprecedented" for him to not resign, but with Phil being extended, and Dolan showing no signs of changing or moving on, I think it's easy to see this team isn't destine for greatness any time soon.

That being said, I'm wrong all the time, and also kind of a moron, so who knows? Just the Knicks are truly becoming a sink hole of a team, and IMHO, anyone with sense and talent wouldn't subject themselves to this for longer than required.
RE: giantsfan  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 3:38 pm : link
In comment 13430321 colin said:
Quote:
Maybe I'm just being doom and gloom, but he's already had 3 coaches, and the Knicks are, objectively, one of the poorest run franchises in sports right now, and I don't see that improving. Watching the way Melo has been treated, the disarray the team is in with no real light at the end of the tunnel, and the fact that KP has, in many different ways, shown his that he has a desire to achieve greatness, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities for him to take a pay cut to be on a team with a future.

A lot can change over the next few years. And truthfully, I didn't know that it would be "unprecedented" for him to not resign, but with Phil being extended, and Dolan showing no signs of changing or moving on, I think it's easy to see this team isn't destine for greatness any time soon.

That being said, I'm wrong all the time, and also kind of a moron, so who knows? Just the Knicks are truly becoming a sink hole of a team, and IMHO, anyone with sense and talent wouldn't subject themselves to this for longer than required.


Yeah all that depressing stuff is frustrating KP, but as to forcing him to demand a trade/ walk in RFA, I can't remember a time that's ever happened.

He's not the only player on a rookie deal to play for a miserable franchise. Anthony Davis extended in NO (albeit after they made the playoffs, but the coach was fired). Demarcus Cousins wanted to be traded his rookie year yet extended when FA came around and would've extended had he not been traded.

Post year-9 FA is when there is volatility to who stays/leaves. So the Knicks have roughly 7 years to convince KP that NY is the place to be. This is (hopefully) rock bottom.
giantsfan  
colin : 4/16/2017 3:44 pm : link
I hope you're right, and you probably are, you seem more knowledgeable on the topic than myself. I think the past 15 or so years of being a Knicks fan has just conditioned me to expect the worst, haha.
right now playing with melo all kp knows  
nygiants16 : 4/16/2017 3:52 pm : link
guaranteed whem he is the number 1 optikn surrounded by young guys who play hard and play defense he will be much happier..

plus one of his best friends is on the team and they re the future front court
RE: RE: giantsfan  
Deej : 4/16/2017 4:00 pm : link
In comment 13430323 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:

Post year-9 FA is when there is volatility to who stays/leaves. So the Knicks have roughly 7 years to convince KP that NY is the place to be. This is (hopefully) rock bottom.


And the new CBA was designed to greatly improve the chances of teams resigning their picks to 3rd contracts.
Without  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 4:31 pm : link
sounding like I don't like Willy (because I really do), would those who call him a building block say Kanter is one? Because Kanter is essentially a maxed out version of what we can realistically dream Willy CAN be.
RE: Without  
Deej : 4/16/2017 4:38 pm : link
In comment 13430381 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
sounding like I don't like Willy (because I really do), would those who call him a building block say Kanter is one? Because Kanter is essentially a maxed out version of what we can realistically dream Willy CAN be.


I reject the premise. Willy is already a better rebounder, especially defensively. And I see no reason to believe that, because Kanter cant play a lick of defense, that Willy is somehow capped at being a bottom 3 defensive center. If Kanter was even just below average defensively, he'd be an all star or near all star. On the other hand, I wouldnt project Willy to ever be as good as Kanter is offensively.

Notably, people within the game have thrown around Gasol and not Kanter with their WH comps. Lets see where this goes.
RE: RE: Without  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 5:19 pm : link
In comment 13430385 Deej said:
Quote:
In comment 13430381 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


sounding like I don't like Willy (because I really do), would those who call him a building block say Kanter is one? Because Kanter is essentially a maxed out version of what we can realistically dream Willy CAN be.



I reject the premise. Willy is already a better rebounder, especially defensively. And I see no reason to believe that, because Kanter cant play a lick of defense, that Willy is somehow capped at being a bottom 3 defensive center. If Kanter was even just below average defensively, he'd be an all star or near all star. On the other hand, I wouldnt project Willy to ever be as good as Kanter is offensively.

Notably, people within the game have thrown around Gasol and not Kanter with their WH comps. Lets see where this goes.


I just think people are underrating how far WIlly has to come defensively to be a "good" defensive player. If I had to use an adjective I'd use something closer to "horrible" defensively than "below average". I didn't see any "signs" he's ever going to be even average defensively. I keep seeing people mention Gasol but Gasol was a guy who 1. Unusual defensive development 2. MASSIVE change in his body.
Well  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 5:22 pm : link
once we add PJ Tucker the defense will be improved. Tuck Tuck Tuck
.  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 5:23 pm : link
With the team, particularly president Phil Jackson, insisting to stick with the Triangle offense moving forward, New York's saviour might actually come from the Philippines.

From the barangay actually.

American sportswriter Roland Lazenby, author of the best-selling books Michael Jordan: The Life and Showboat: The Life of Kobe Bryant, said on his Twitter account a couple of days ago that the Knicks would be smart to bring Tim Cone to New York.

He added that the winnigest coach in PBA history is the ultimate triangle coach on planet Earth right now.
Link - ( New Window )
Lazenby  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 5:25 pm : link
further asserts that Phil strongly misses Tex Winter. He claims Winter was one of the few people who could critique Phil and Phil would listen.
I'd  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 5:32 pm : link
be all over James Young. 34% from 3, 0.76 WS, good size (6'7), 22 all of next season. I'd load up on draft failure types.
another difference between kanter and willy  
nygiants16 : 4/16/2017 5:37 pm : link
willy is a much better passer, kanter is allergic to passing the ball..

willy also at least tries defensively, kanter just cares about scoring..
Not  
Jon in NYC : 4/16/2017 5:56 pm : link
sure where all the Slick Willy hate is coming from.

Last six players to average 16 and 13 per 36 as rookies:



Yes, he has to work on his defense. But holy shit, the kid just had a great rookie year out of nowhere. He scores, rebounds, passes, works hard. He's absolutely a building block.
Hate?  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 5:58 pm : link
Now comparing Willy to a guy who just had a 23.74 PER age 24 season and was given a 70 million dollar extension at 23 is "hate"? lol wow.
The  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 5:59 pm : link
point was his defense was really, really bad to the point I'm not sure why we should expect him to ever be an average defensive big. Based on what?
RE: Hate?  
Jon in NYC : 4/16/2017 6:02 pm : link
In comment 13430423 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
Now comparing Willy to a guy who just had a 23.74 PER age 24 season and was given a 70 million dollar extension at 23 is "hate"? lol wow.


Relax buddy. Read above your comment.

Quote:
Willy is not a real building block, not as of yet. I'm a huge Wily fan but to call him a building block is crazy
RE: RE: Hate?  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 6:04 pm : link
In comment 13430427 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
In comment 13430423 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


Now comparing Willy to a guy who just had a 23.74 PER age 24 season and was given a 70 million dollar extension at 23 is "hate"? lol wow.



Relax buddy. Read above your comment.



Quote:


Willy is not a real building block, not as of yet. I'm a huge Wily fan but to call him a building block is crazy



Fair enough. I just meant for me personally I don't see how we can say both Kanter isn't one but Willy is. I have doubts Willy is ever even average defensively. I just don't see any reason to believe that's the case other than "Marc Gasol!!!". I mean even KP and Willy himself have said it needs work. Maybe the "work" helps but I'm not blindly projecting significantly better defense.
I see Dan's point  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 6:05 pm : link
Which is why I was all over Robert Williams before he decided not to declare. Big Willy fan over here but I don't classify him the same as KP were I'd avoid looking at 2-way players at his position completely come draft time.
Austin  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 6:07 pm : link
Green drooled over Willy's offense yet said the following

With Willy, Knicks fans can expect an up-and-down year. He is a special offensive talent. He has nice post moves, a soft touch, a good mid-range J, and vision/passing abilities that are very advanced for his age. Check out this perfect lefty pass from underneath the rim out to an open 3-point shooter (and sorry for the grainy videos -- I'm running a low-budget, low-tech operation here).


"Willy's body is more similar to Marc than Pau. He does not have what you'd consider "NBA athleticism." He runs the floor hard, but he can't jump, he struggles to slide his feet defensively (despite great footwork on the offensive end) and he is a horrible pick-and-roll defender. He was badly exposed in pick-and-rolls at the Euroleague level, and it will be his biggest problem in the NBA."

It's important for Knicks fans to keep their expectations for Willy in check. He's not Marc Gasol. He's probably never going to be a good defender, and he may never be a starting-caliber center.
RE: I see Dan's point  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 6:09 pm : link
In comment 13430431 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
Which is why I was all over Robert Williams before he decided not to declare. Big Willy fan over here but I don't classify him the same as KP were I'd avoid looking at 2-way players at his position completely come draft time.


I love what we saw from Willy this year. I just don't understand why we are ignoring the defense and the odds he becomes a good defender. If he improves to "below average" we still likely will be considering a defensive 4/5 to pair with him. That was my only point. Expecting Marc Gasol seems kind of silly. How many Marc Gasol's have their been?
I don't agree  
Jon in NYC : 4/16/2017 6:09 pm : link
with the notion that Enes isn't a "building block" either. 14/7 off the bench at 24 years old? He's a really talented player.
to become a good defender  
nygiants16 : 4/16/2017 6:10 pm : link
willy is going to learn how to use his bldy and pisitioning because he is not the most athletic center and not the quickest..

he can really learn alot from marc gasol playing for spain
RE: I'd  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 6:10 pm : link
In comment 13430405 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
be all over James Young. 34% from 3, 0.76 WS, good size (6'7), 22 all of next season. I'd load up on draft failure types.


Not going to quibble over signing young guys to cheap deals (because that is what this team SHOULD be doing), I just have had issues with Young since he was drafted. Not a very good athlete, horrible defender.

Throwing the 34% from 3 ignores the fact he's only played in 29 games this season and hit 12 3s. He's 28% from 3 for his career. If he's not going to morph into a 40% 3 point shooter he's not an NBA player at all. Awful defender, rebounder and passer. Only reason he was a lottery pick was because he was a proclaimed bucket getter at U.K. and he's averaging 9.7 points per 36 on 37% from the field for his career.

Again, if he's a minimum type signing I'm not going to soil my pants over it.
RE: RE: I'd  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 6:13 pm : link
In comment 13430439 giantsfan44ab said:
Quote:
In comment 13430405 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


be all over James Young. 34% from 3, 0.76 WS, good size (6'7), 22 all of next season. I'd load up on draft failure types.



Not going to quibble over signing young guys to cheap deals (because that is what this team SHOULD be doing), I just have had issues with Young since he was drafted. Not a very good athlete, horrible defender.

Throwing the 34% from 3 ignores the fact he's only played in 29 games this season and hit 12 3s. He's 28% from 3 for his career. If he's not going to morph into a 40% 3 point shooter he's not an NBA player at all. Awful defender, rebounder and passer. Only reason he was a lottery pick was because he was a proclaimed bucket getter at U.K. and he's averaging 9.7 points per 36 on 37% from the field for his career.

Again, if he's a minimum type signing I'm not going to soil my pants over it.


I'm not specifically a James Young fan. I just think guys like Young, Ennis, Clark etc should be our targets (again assuming their prices make sense). I just think failed 1sts for other teams that are still reasonably young are the way to go on a rebuilding team.
The biggest takeaway from Marc Gasols progression  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 6:15 pm : link
Is that if you have vice grips for defensive players in the backcourt it make your job helluva lot easier. I can picture a scenario where KP turns into the rangy rim protector Knicks fans' have wet dreams about combined with getting stoppers at the other 3 positions where Willy's not relied to stop every defensive breakdown.
Clark  
DanMetroMan : 4/16/2017 6:15 pm : link
37% from 3, only 26 years old. Some of these guys might value playing time over anything else. Wouldn't mind the Warriors needing a roster spot and dealing McCaw for our 2nd.
Trey Burke would be my "failed 1st" round  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 6:20 pm : link
project. Never going to be a starter in the NBA but in a Jamal Crawford type role? Granted it hasn't worked out all that well in washington. But I liked how his effiency improved every year in Utah. In the same vein there's Shelvin Mack.
Hopefully KP, this year's pick, and next year's pick  
bceagle05 : 4/16/2017 6:21 pm : link
are the real building blocks. Ideally I think you want Willy to be your fourth or fifth best player (on a really good team).
RE: RE: RE: Without  
Deej : 4/16/2017 6:24 pm : link
In comment 13430398 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:


I just think people are underrating how far WIlly has to come defensively to be a "good" defensive player. If I had to use an adjective I'd use something closer to "horrible" defensively than "below average". I didn't see any "signs" he's ever going to be even average defensively. I keep seeing people mention Gasol but Gasol was a guy who 1. Unusual defensive development 2. MASSIVE change in his body.


BUT... Kanter is so bad defensively that he's a unique case. Thus Willy does not need to be even average defensively to be a very different proposition than Kanter. Agree Gasol is not remotely likely for a defensive projection (though I think WH is already a better rebounder than Gasol ever was, and is tracking to be as good or better offensively).
I know I shot down Deej's Melo to Portland hypothetical  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 6:26 pm : link
A few weeks ago, but what would it take to get Noah Vonleh? Taking on a bad contract? I think he's an ideal starting center next to KP. He can switch PnRs on defense and provides some hope of range (only 7 3s made this year but was one of his most promising attributes at Indiana). Not a big drop off rebounding wise from willy (11 per 36). Ideal scenario is starting a defensive minded center with KP and bringing Willy for 25-30 minutes off the bench. Give vonleh about 20-25 minutes.
I'm expecting Frenchie barring a top three leap.  
bceagle05 : 4/16/2017 6:26 pm : link
Quote:

Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley

Some people in the Knicks organization are fans of draft prospect Frank Ntilikina
So am I  
Phil in LA : 4/16/2017 6:27 pm : link
And he's got to be top 3 or 4 for the Knicks.
Frenchie  
Jon in NYC : 4/16/2017 6:38 pm : link
makes too much sense not to happen. Learn to love him.

And I've been big on Vonleh for a while. Even at Indiana. Surprised it's taken him this long to get it going in the pros.
In the event Phil pisses off Melo enough  
giantsfan44ab : 4/16/2017 6:39 pm : link
To the point he just waived his NTC entirely you can do:

Melo, KOQ, Kuz for

Crabbe, vonleh, harkless and ezeli

To get a core where everyone is 24 and younger:

Fox
Crabbe
Harkless
KP
Vonleh/Willy

If not Melo, KOQ + Lee for Crabbe and Vonleh could do it (Portland does it to shed salary).
RE: I'm expecting Frenchie barring a top three leap.  
nygiants16 : 4/16/2017 6:42 pm : link
In comment 13430453 bceagle05 said:
Quote:


Quote:



Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley

Some people in the Knicks organization are fans of draft prospect Frank Ntilikina



he is apparently working out in new york for the summer
RE: .  
TyreeHelmet : 4/16/2017 8:12 pm : link
In comment 13430400 DanMetroMan said:
Quote:
With the team, particularly president Phil Jackson, insisting to stick with the Triangle offense moving forward, New York's saviour might actually come from the Philippines.

From the barangay actually.

American sportswriter Roland Lazenby, author of the best-selling books Michael Jordan: The Life and Showboat: The Life of Kobe Bryant, said on his Twitter account a couple of days ago that the Knicks would be smart to bring Tim Cone to New York.

He added that the winnigest coach in PBA history is the ultimate triangle coach on planet Earth right now. Link - ( New Window )


The Spurs get Ettore Messina as an assistant and the Knicks get a triangle expert from the Philippines. The triangle focus is such garbage. I can't believe people still fall for this triangle bullshit.

RE: RE: .  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/16/2017 11:49 pm : link
In comment 13430560 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 13430400 DanMetroMan said:


Quote:


With the team, particularly president Phil Jackson, insisting to stick with the Triangle offense moving forward, New York's saviour might actually come from the Philippines.

From the barangay actually.

American sportswriter Roland Lazenby, author of the best-selling books Michael Jordan: The Life and Showboat: The Life of Kobe Bryant, said on his Twitter account a couple of days ago that the Knicks would be smart to bring Tim Cone to New York.

He added that the winnigest coach in PBA history is the ultimate triangle coach on planet Earth right now. Link - ( New Window )



The Spurs get Ettore Messina as an assistant and the Knicks get a triangle expert from the Philippines. The triangle focus is such garbage. I can't believe people still fall for this triangle bullshit.


I don't think anyone's falling for it. It's the only thing people talk about, and not in a good way.
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