NFT: Knicks Chat: Melo open to other teams?

I hope we didn't miss the boat on getting a decent haul for him.i like Melo. I feel he has always gotten too much shit from people. Still, this would have been nice a couple of months ago or earlier.

and it sounds like it is. I also hope there are still a handful of teams that might want him. At this point im not expecting back a good package, i just want an ok one. Problem is that even if you want to throw in teams like WAS and OKC you still dont see much value coming back our way. Really needs to be BOS, LAL, or maybe TOR (Some interesting younger guys and have their picks). Or some surprise team that is maybe up and coming that he would waive his clause for like MINN (I dont see it at all just using them as an example).

anywhere. Cut bait with Rose & Noah. And just start over with KP & the 1st round pick.

makes sense if lakers get number 1 pick and take ball

In comment 13428112 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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anywhere. Cut bait with Rose & Noah. And just start over with KP & the 1st round pick.

Noah is staying and i am fine with that, he can be a good mentor to the young bigs and hopefully help them.with better defensive positioning and awareness

im not a huge fan of Russell but he at least has upside. At worst i could see him as a 6th man scorer.

In comment 13428127 Italianju said:

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im not a huge fan of Russell but he at least has upside. At worst i could see him as a 6th man scorer.

i think he fits the triangle with the ball movement and his 3 point shot but knicks have to find a slasher to go next to him or at the 3 spot especially if they really are enamored with frank...

melo for russell, nance, deng and mosgov and a future 1st...

knicks get 2 young players and take on 2 bad contracts, and also get a future pick..

probably the best trade knicks would be able to find..

In comment 13428110 Italianju said:

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and it sounds like it is. I also hope there are still a handful of teams that might want him. At this point im not expecting back a good package, i just want an ok one. Problem is that even if you want to throw in teams like WAS and OKC you still dont see much value coming back our way. Really needs to be BOS, LAL, or maybe TOR (Some interesting younger guys and have their picks). Or some surprise team that is maybe up and coming that he would waive his clause for like MINN (I dont see it at all just using them as an example).

I could see Phil being high on Sabonis

Deng and Mozgov, those contracts are god awful. Id want to do better then Nance i think in that case.

In comment 13428132 Italianju said:

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Deng and Mozgov, those contracts are god awful. Id want to do better then Nance i think in that case.

that is why threw in another first..

i thought aboit their young players, i dont think they would add randle ingram or that young cneter (forget his name)

i actually think lakers squash the slow build and go all in this summer

giving Melo a full no trade may be the dumbest

It's entirely possible Phil's been playing the long game with his mismanagement (and weird tweets), making NY so miserable Melo is finally happy to leave

What a clown show. Time to start getting it right this offseason, starting with the Melo trade

In comment 13428140 mfsd said:

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giving Melo a full no trade may be the dumbest It's entirely possible Phil's been playing the long game with his mismanagement (and weird tweets), making NY so miserable Melo is finally happy to leave What a clown show. Time to start getting it right this offseason, starting with the Melo trade

There is absolutely no way he had the offseason he had last year wth the goal being "push Melo out" he tried to add "win now" pieces

In comment 13428140 mfsd said:

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giving Melo a full no trade may be the dumbest

It really isnt. People werent slashing their wrists over it at the time. It was a calculated risk. They thought they'd lose Melo for nothing without the NTC clause, and viewed that as worse than giving him the NTC clause. This is really the worst case scenario -- could have been forseen but wasnt likely to be this bad. I.e. it wasnt likely that Melo would be so attached to the city after the writing was on the wall, or that he'd pick such a narrow list of approved teams, or that the narrow list of teams would literally have no future assets to trade. What if Phil had not resigned him? Maybe Dolan makes him use the future picks to obtain another star. Or we throw max money at a sub-star play to "replace" the lost star power in Melo. On net, I think the Melo contract was necessary and smart. You cant strip out one piece of the contract and call it dumb. It's like saying it was dumb to trade a pick as part of a bigger trade -- you evaluate the whole trade, not one piece of it.

The Noah signing was clearly worse. It was stupid ab initio. And guess what -- it's such a bad contract that it EFFECTIVELY has a NTC except for another terrible contract. I'd add in the Rose deal as a corollary to the Noah deal -- we traded away a good enough center on a good enough contract for 1 year of Derrick Rose, and in doing so left a hole that management felt had to be filled by over-committing to Noah.

The Chandler trade was worse. It actually hurt our cap situation. Giving JR and Shump away for shit was a classic misread of the value of depth (though in his defense I assume no one offered more).

And of course there is the Rambis love affair.

dodged a bullet!

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In comment 13428158 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13428140 mfsd said: Quote: giving Melo a full no trade may be the dumbest It's entirely possible Phil's been playing the long game with his mismanagement (and weird tweets), making NY so miserable Melo is finally happy to leave What a clown show. Time to start getting it right this offseason, starting with the Melo trade There is absolutely no way he had the offseason he had last year wth the goal being "push Melo out" he tried to add "win now" pieces

I know, I'm being silly about it. Just tired of this shit. I think we all agree, hitting on another draft pick and pulling off a Melo trade would make a good offseason

and especially the new agent GM pushing for Melo.

With most likely in general.

don't think Ainge is going to deal for Melo. Boston wanted him on the very cheap and I doubt that changes. LAL seem "possible". LAC/Cleveland have absolutely nothing to offer.

In comment 13428130 nygiants16 said:

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melo for russell, nance, deng and mosgov and a future 1st... knicks get 2 young players and take on 2 bad contracts, and also get a future pick.. probably the best trade knicks would be able to find..

This ascribes negative value to Melo IMO. Bailing LA out of the remaining 3 years each, $102 million combined on the Deng and Moz deals would require a give of more than Russell, Nance, and a #1.

It's not 100% clear what you get for giving teams cap room anymore. Probably not what PHI got from SAC. But it's tough to see a world where PHI gets Staukas, a pick swap, and a t10 protected #1 for clearing $13 million off Sacto's books if $102 million in terrible contracts gets you Russell, Nance, and a #1 and you give up Melo, who is still a good player. 2018-19 cap is expected to go up just 1%, yet contracts are still going to raise 8% or 5%, meaning teams are going to get crunched next offseason.

In comment 13428239 giantsfan44ab said:

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and especially the new agent GM pushing for Melo.

buss is on record saying she hired magic to turn around the lakers quickly and wants an all star on the team next year...

magic was not hired for a slow rebuild

What about moving Melo to Miami for Bosh's cap number and Winslow? Or something like that. I've heard rumblings about this type of deal with Miami recently. Carmelo would actually fit very well there at the 4 next to Whiteside. Would you do it ?

What are the Knicks going to spend that cap money on? Kevin Durant? No. Rudy Gay? I'd hope not.

It would suck having half your salary cap filled with bad contracts but I also don't see where these "good" contracts they will be turning down to do so. You can move lee easily to create cap room if that's a major concern. Might have 1 year where you go over the tax line to pay for KP, d-lo and Willy.

A bigger concern for me is how you'd build an elite NBA defense with D-lo and Willy being 2 major pieces.

In comment 13428282 nygiants16 said:

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In comment 13428239 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: and especially the new agent GM pushing for Melo. buss is on record saying she hired magic to turn around the lakers quickly and wants an all star on the team next year... magic was not hired for a slow rebuild

It depends on the pick really. I can't imagine them going all out in acquiring vets iff the sixers get their pick. That's not something that's going to be relayed to the media in clear terms.

And Melo is hardly an all star. If you're getting the bad contracts off the books, that's a different story. Then it's not as much about getting Melo as it is clearing room for the summer of george.

Even if we had cap room is any major FA coming here? Possibly but not likely. The way to change that is to start winning. In order for that to happen I wouldn't mind taking back some bad contracts if it nets us a much better younger player in return and/or picks. Now, I am not talking about 5 year deals but if the bad contract is like a 2 year deal then I am all for it.

shocker. Didn't want to see what the Cavs could offer in the case the Warriors didn't win this year? Bold move on his part.

Ennis, Deng for Melo

Who says no?

In comment 13428294 robbieballs2003 said:

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Even if we had cap room is any major FA coming here? Possibly but not likely. The way to change that is to start winning. In order for that to happen I wouldn't mind taking back some bad contracts if it nets us a much better younger player in return and/or picks. Now, I am not talking about 5 year deals but if the bad contract is like a 2 year deal then I am all for it.

Yeah, but Phils rings...

In comment 13428320 Jon in NYC said:

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Ennis, Deng for Melo Who says no?

Unless it's all BS, the Lakers have really been talking up Ingram's late season "development" so I strongly suspect they would be the ones to say no.

second half 13 points, 4 boards, 3 assists on 48% from the field. I'm not even a massive fan of his but if I'm the Lakers that's a hard no.

In comment 13428326 DanMetroMan said:

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second half 13 points, 4 boards, 3 assists on 48% from the field. I'm not even a massive fan of his but if I'm the Lakers that's a hard no.

I mean Melo has to be worth SOMETHING.

A subpar rookie year from Brandon Ingram probably qualifies.

As nyg16 said, the Lakers seem pretty intent on adding a star. What other route can they go?

In comment 13428331 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13428326 DanMetroMan said: Quote: second half 13 points, 4 boards, 3 assists on 48% from the field. I'm not even a massive fan of his but if I'm the Lakers that's a hard no. I mean Melo has to be worth SOMETHING. A subpar rookie year from Brandon Ingram probably qualifies. As nyg16 said, the Lakers seem pretty intent on adding a star. What other route can they go?

Again, I'm not a huge Ingram fan but he was 19 years old this season and went #2 overall. I'd be pretty stunned if they dealt him in a deal for Melo. For a Butler/PG13? Sure. The Lakers are almost certainly going to aim for PG13 before looking at other options. I suspect people are going to be very disappointed if they are expecting even an Ingram caliber young player return (and for the third time I'm not even a huge believer in him).

In comment 13428331 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13428326 DanMetroMan said: Quote: second half 13 points, 4 boards, 3 assists on 48% from the field. I'm not even a massive fan of his but if I'm the Lakers that's a hard no. I mean Melo has to be worth SOMETHING. A subpar rookie year from Brandon Ingram probably qualifies. As nyg16 said, the Lakers seem pretty intent on adding a star. What other route can they go?

I think Ingram is their top asset now. It seems Clarkson and to a lesser extent D-lo and Randle are the ones to be parted with. If I was the Lakers no chance I'm getting rid of Ingram unless I'm getting a sub-25 all star caliber player in return.

have enough to make a Melo trade worthwhile for us. I want no part of the garbage the Clips or Cavs will try to give us. I'm hoping the Celtics lose a tough series to Cleveland and decide that Fultz (or whoever) + Melo (whom they can acquire for their "B" trade package) can put them over the top next season.

I think Randle and zubac are their 2nd and 3rd best assets after Ingram but the pending max deal for Randle probably makes him easier to part with. Pacers would be smart to at least get a Randle type player if PG is destined to leave.

like Deng getting traded (i.e. fell out of the rotation on a terrible team, 30+, 15-20% of cap salary with 3 YEARS left)? I honestly cant think of any bad contract with that much term that was traded when it was accepted that it was a bad contract (as opposed to the Knicks trading real assets for a former name player).

I know as fans we like to think that assets are everything, and so an Ingram-like asset plus a Deng is better than neither. But Im just not sure teams see things that way. You're signing yourself up for $22-25 million a year for basically Brandon Ingram. Is that such a good deal? Would most owners green light that?

In comment 13428339 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13428331 Jon in NYC said: Quote: In comment 13428326 DanMetroMan said: Quote: second half 13 points, 4 boards, 3 assists on 48% from the field. I'm not even a massive fan of his but if I'm the Lakers that's a hard no. I mean Melo has to be worth SOMETHING. A subpar rookie year from Brandon Ingram probably qualifies. As nyg16 said, the Lakers seem pretty intent on adding a star. What other route can they go? I think Ingram is their top asset now. It seems Clarkson and to a lesser extent D-lo and Randle are the ones to be parted with. If I was the Lakers no chance I'm getting rid of Ingram unless I'm getting a sub-25 all star caliber player in return.

I think their top asset is their 2017 (or 2018) #1 pick.

Kanter, grant and abrines.

Grant has the appearance of a 3 and D wing. Abrines is a sharpshooter.

I meant more from just their player standpoint.

than Ingram.

can't trade their pick until 2022. Same shit as LAC and CLE. Sabonis + Abrines and the Bulls 2018 2nd (owed to OKC).

Part with that pick though.

In comment 13428354 Jon in NYC said:

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than Ingram.

I probably prefer Ingram. I think he just fits a lot better no matter what you want to do style/personnel wise. Whereas Russell is a guy who others will have to fit around, both on offense and defense.

In comment 13428356 giantsfan44ab said:

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Part with that pick though.

For Melo, yeah. If they keep it, it is Jackson, Fultz, or Ball.

I could see them trading it for George (like the Love trade) in an offseason where they get both George and Melo. The #1 plus another young asset and a bad contract for George. Would catapult Indy into a rebuild, but that's probably better than just 50-50 losing George (given no clear path to leaping to contention even with George).

the buzz is more than 1 lottery team has Jackson #1 on their board and that "supposedly" includes at least 1 team that could use a PG. Could be us, could be anyone. Just interesting.

In comment 13428354 Jon in NYC said:

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than Ingram.

I think Randle would fit very nicely next to KP. But I don't see the Lakers trading for Melo unless it was to dump the Deng or Mozgov contracts.

I hope I'm wrong but I don't see the Knicks getting anything valuable in return for Melo.

In comment 13428373 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 13428354 Jon in NYC said: Quote: than Ingram. I think Randle would fit very nicely next to KP. But I don't see the Lakers trading for Melo unless it was to dump the Deng or Mozgov contracts. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see the Knicks getting anything valuable in return for Melo.

Same. At this point I'm just praying for not taking back a bad deal (without being compensated for it of course).

than giving him the NTC wasn't the worst move by Jax. If we have to take crap back or we are limited to 2-3 teams, than it was.

When Boston gets knocked out. You think they'd be interested in Melo+Knicks pick(probably 6/7) for the #1 overall and fillers?

I fully expect them to be willing to move Love for Melo.

has the most interesting pieces of the teams we "realistically" think he would go. I'm not going to even concern myself with fantasies of getting a top 3 pick (even in a Melo + our pick swap) but even without that, Boston has multiple guys I'd be "happy" with.

then maybe they'll turn their attention to Melo. No question, Melo's a tough sell at this point. One trick pony, older, opt-out at the end of the season, high salary (though not crazy high), and of course the no-trade clause. My expectations are very low on the return, but I have no doubt he's getting moved.

To Lakers for Jordan Clarkson and a future first rounder would be ideal
Knicks get 14 million in cap relief. Clarkson can play the one or two and he's going to blossom
Don't want Russell and any bad contracts

Next. Trade Lee and Oquinn for draft picks and hopefully no salary back

Offer Aaron Gordon a contract if he's restricted
Outbid the Magic. I think this kid is on the cusp of being a star in this league

is not a FA
Link - ( New Window )

think there's a trade to be made with the Lakers.

They desperately need star power, and have the contracts/young talent to make something work.

Zubac, Ingram, Randle, Clarkson, Russel, firsts.

There's something there.

can get someone younger/better than Melo if they dealt some of those assets. If we settle for Clarkson and Deng and maybe a draft pick, perhaps that could get it done.

In comment 13428407 DanMetroMan said:

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is not a FA Link - ( New Window )

Yes. Thx Dan. I looked it up after I posted. My bad. He's got one more year

and want paul george.

I cant imagine them giving up young talent for the right to pay the corpse of Melo a lot of money on a bad team.
Clarkson maybe if it rid them of the bad contracts they gave out

Ultimate glue guy, not sure he's a star though. I actually like his college teammate (RHJ) better. Neither are shooters, but RHJ offers more in playmaking and rebounding. Probably a bit more versatile defensively if that's possible.

If he's traded now, so of course he's open to a trade all of a sudden.

the Celtics pick fell down to #3 do you think Melo's value is enough for the Knicks to send Melo & #6 to Boston for #3? Would assure us one of Fultz, Ball & Jackson and all the cap space from giving up Melo. Boston would still get a very good young player & Melo added to a 50+ win team. I see no chance Melo could land a top 2 pick, but maybe 3?

In comment 13428389 Keith said:

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I fully expect them to be willing to move Love for Melo.

Yes. Or Melo plus something for Love and something less (even a slight negative value). Maybe get a 3rd team involved (Love to LA?).

Also, I have a hard time believing that LAC can bring back the same core if they dont win two playoff rounds, and pretend that they're a title contender. Which means I could see Blake or Deandre traded.

as in a 2 way deal. Because it addresses the NTC issue (which isnt gone). Melo to somewhere that he'll play (LAC, CLE, etc.), assets from that good team to an up and coming team, futures (and bad contract?) to NYC. Much easier to match that way.

In comment 13428480 Deej said:

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as in a 2 way deal. Because it addresses the NTC issue (which isnt gone). Melo to somewhere that he'll play (LAC, CLE, etc.), assets from that good team to an up and coming team, futures (and bad contract?) to NYC. Much easier to match that way.

In theory yes. But what do Cleveland or the Clippers have that anyone wants? Other than people that they won't trade.

In comment 13428498 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

In comment 13428480 Deej said: Quote: as in a 2 way deal. Because it addresses the NTC issue (which isnt gone). Melo to somewhere that he'll play (LAC, CLE, etc.), assets from that good team to an up and coming team, futures (and bad contract?) to NYC. Much easier to match that way. In theory yes. But what do Cleveland or the Clippers have that anyone wants? Other than people that they won't trade.

Well, Love and Deandre. Neither guy fits our rebuild (if we're doing one), and in both instances I think the team getting Melo would want more than just Melo. Say, LAC decides they need a shake up, and Denadre is the piece they can afford to trade (b/c Blake is a FA). Melo to LAC, Deandre to BOS, and pieces from BOS to both LAC and NYK.

[Queue the "WHY WOULD LA TRADE DEANDRE" DIATRIBE]

i can really see them blowing that team up..

question is with doc and cp3 so close do they really let him go? probably not that leaves deandre who is under contract and blake..

my guess is they look to sign and trade blake to get multiple pieces back and rebuild that way..

i think if they give cp3 5 years and a huge contrsct they will be making a huge mistake

What is the deal? Team would have to be capped out, otherwise they'd just sign him outright. So what are the assets (including contracts) going back to LAC? Recalling that Blake would have to accept the deal too, including the depletion of assets by his new team -- so sort of like Melo's NTC.

I think trading an under-contract Deandre is easier. Except if Im LAC I'd probably prefer to keep Deandre over Blake.

In a Melo deal somehow that would be probably the best outcome. What a pairing would KP and DJ be.

If it could net us DJ.

He had another nice season. Doesnt shoot enough but is a very efficient shooter. A good but not lock down defender (frankly it is hard to evaluate him given what sieves Rose and Melo were).

He is owed about 37 million over 3 years for his age 32-34 seasons. What are the UFA SG options? Wade will want a lot more and is a different, less dependable player. Redick will be resigned. Tyreke is probably Lee's equal but is a bigger injury risk and could demand a bigger contract. Thabo is an offensive liability and will be 33. Korver is an old specialist. Ditto Tony Allen.

I think Lee on his contract isnt cheap but is a reasonable investment. I'd put him #3 on the SG list after Wade and Redick.

the Clippers started searching for trades for DAJ very aggressively in my NBA 2k franchise.

Just sayin'.

Will he say anything of substance? Stay tuned.

In comment 13428715 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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Will he say anything of substance? Stay tuned.

Well, there is going to be a lot of nonsense. As there should be -- he cant say "we're trading Melo come hell or high water" but he will be pressed on it.

I think what you need to listen for is direction. Does he say "rebuild"? Does he say "compete" with respect to 2017-18? Which players does he mention beyond KP -- if he focuses on Willy it's rebuild, if he talks Noah and Lee it is retooling. If he talks about the #1 and Kuz and the UFDAs its a signal of total tear down.

Knicks reportedly had "talks" with teams including the Clippers regarding Lee so one would assume they would be open to moving him. What would you need back with horrendous Rivers to do this swap? (Rivers has one less year). 2 2nds enough?

In comment 13428741 DanMetroMan said:

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Knicks reportedly had "talks" with teams including the Clippers regarding Lee so one would assume they would be open to moving him. What would you need back with horrendous Rivers to do this swap? (Rivers has one less year). 2 2nds enough?

No. I want a late 1 but I'd take a high 2 more realistically. But with a bad contract, it needs to be a #1 or a similar young player. I'd want 2 #2s just to take Rivers.

In comment 13428747 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13428741 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Knicks reportedly had "talks" with teams including the Clippers regarding Lee so one would assume they would be open to moving him. What would you need back with horrendous Rivers to do this swap? (Rivers has one less year). 2 2nds enough? No. I want a late 1 but I'd take a high 2 more realistically. But with a bad contract, it needs to be a #1 or a similar young player. I'd want 2 #2s just to take Rivers.

Problem with that is the first won't come from LAC until 2022.

makes it sound very very much like Melo will be traded.

Lonzo overrated?
Link - ( New Window )

"Melo would be better off somewhere else"

Effectively confirms they asked Melo re trades, disappointed that leaked, and compliments Melo handling of that.

Told Melo they wont just dump him. Says the direction of the team is that they havent won with him, he's better off elsewhere.

In comment 13428750 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 13428747 Deej said: Quote: In comment 13428741 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Knicks reportedly had "talks" with teams including the Clippers regarding Lee so one would assume they would be open to moving him. What would you need back with horrendous Rivers to do this swap? (Rivers has one less year). 2 2nds enough? No. I want a late 1 but I'd take a high 2 more realistically. But with a bad contract, it needs to be a #1 or a similar young player. I'd want 2 #2s just to take Rivers. Problem with that is the first won't come from LAC until 2022.

Well then LAC cant have him. Or Melo and Lee for one of their bigs.

Finally. Looks like Carmelo Anthony has played his final game as a Knick. Not his fault but it's time

which he means triangle and playing every play.

so far

active players... music to Deej's ears. Gimme some young athletes.

Love love love what I'm hearing.

In comment 13428764 bceagle05 said:

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Love love love what I'm hearing.

Like the part about Rose wanting to come back?

medias damn obsession with the triangle is tiring. I don't give a shit about the triangle, stop asking about the triangle. This Knicks team lacks talent to run any system. They're bad. Lets talk and worry about what system they are running when it actually makes a difference.

coming back would be pathetic.

He's a bullshitter.

In comment 13428767 Steve in Greenwich said:

Quote:

medias damn obsession with the triangle is tiring. I don't give a shit about the triangle, stop asking about the triangle. This Knicks team lacks talent to run any system. They're bad. Lets talk and worry about what system they are running when it actually makes a difference.

Biggest issue is talent and commitment from the top players to play hard and move the ball. But the triangle isnt a non-issue. Because Phil is forcing it on the coaches. The players dont like it. And as deployed in LAL and CHI, was not designed well for the modern 3 point game (though it's adaptable to that).

is gone. I wouldn't read too much into that.

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Phil said the triangle hasn't worked because "we've faced resistance." Implied that was Melo

Hahahahaha

In comment 13428775 Jon in NYC said:

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is gone. I wouldn't read too much into that.

yeah I was kidding. Nothing Phil said suggested mutual interest.

PJ says there was rebelliousness against JH in the team that led to discord, and that will stop. Seems obvious he means Melo and Rose primarily, but Lee was mouthy at times and I think the Jennings cut was surprising.

I do agree it is a factor, but its talked about 90x more than it needs to because its low hanging fruit since its obviously the thing Phil likes talking most about and is a staple of his basketball career. Watching a Knicks game I see guys who cant make open jump shots, not that they lack an offense that shoots a suitable amount of 3's for today's game. They were just slightly below league average in 3 pointers attempted and slightly below average in 3 pt percent made. If they had guys who were better shooters, maybe the total number of 3's attempted would be higher. But the 2nd question of the presser after having not heard from Phil for a year is about the triangle system? I don't care about the damn triangle system until they have players who can run A system.

In comment 13428784 Deej said:

Quote:

PJ says there was rebelliousness against JH in the team that led to discord, and that will stop. Seems obvious he means Melo and Rose primarily, but Lee was mouthy at times and I think the Jennings cut was surprising.

PJ is big into team harmony and a "we against the world" mentality per his book.

his age I expect the Knicks to make a run at PJ Tucker.

Phil is evil.

Mike Vorkunov‏
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What if Carmelo wants to stay? Jackson says he told him: "We have't won here. You don�t want to end your career" w' a label as a non-winner

look into full court pressure? They better be in good shape lol

that Melo wasnt interested in.

Also smartly points out that everyone who doesnt win a title is gonna re-assess. Maybe a broader market for Melo going forward is the implication.

Now that Phil came out and said Melo would be better off on another team. This situation cannot persist another season

.

Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley 38s38 seconds ago
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Phil Jackson says he never criticized Carmelo Anthony in any tweets or interviews this season. I think Carmelo would disagree.

or get the hell out. He is not a capable NBA executive at all!

This organization is such a joke!

Chris Herring‏Verified account @Herring_NBA 5m5 minutes ago
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Chris Herring Retweeted Jason Robles
Bc he's not taking full accountability for something he built, & still doesnt seem to know how to turn it around.Chris Herring added,
Jason Robles @NasaFromNYC
Replying to @Herring_NBA
Why does everyone hate Phil? The players gave no effort on defense every night. They could have had a much better record.
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Chris Herring‏Verified account @Herring_NBA 1m1 minute ago
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Replying to @Herring_NBA
...still thinks 3s in today's NBA are being overvalued, and was happy KP went a game without taking them. And said defense is so bad that...
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Chris Herring‏Verified account @Herring_NBA 20s20 seconds ago
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...the team might consider using a full-court press in the future (Good luck w that if they don't like running triangle). Not to mention...

Boston get swept!!

has picks + (not saying all would even be available) but Brown, Zizic, Yabusele, Smart. Find a way Phil!

I dont like what the 3 has done to the sport in recent years, but the math is very clear that it is a good shot a lot of the time.

He needs to speak a little more, no question. We're entering a brave new world with a Knicks rebuild. Very exciting.

in PJ Tucker to toughen these suckers up!!!!

question, I know everyone is reading resistance of the triangle "from the top" being about Melo but couldn't that line refer to the top of the triangle ie Rose?

But damn, Phil is a Savage

show baby!
Link - ( New Window )

The "star" players didn't buy in, and everyone followed their "lead."

@PhilJackson11 Call Vlade, he's prone to dumb trades and the Kings have multiple picks #Knicks

In comment 13428875 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

@PhilJackson11 Call Vlade, he's prone to dumb trades and the Kings have multiple picks #Knicks

I don't know if Knicks fans can call the Kings dumb now. They knew when the right time to sell on their main star (maybe a little late, but still).

In comment 13428891 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

In comment 13428875 DanMetroMan said: Quote: @PhilJackson11 Call Vlade, he's prone to dumb trades and the Kings have multiple picks #Knicks I don't know if Knicks fans can call the Kings dumb now. They knew when the right time to sell on their main star (maybe a little late, but still).

Well they are dumb enough to have Vlade admit they had better offers and passed...

better offers for Melo in the past few years. Just not foolish enough to admit it to the public.

Melo needs to go. If this is how it has to happen, so be it. We need a full rebuild.

By putting this out to the public, it increases the pressure on Melo to accept whatever deal Phil can drum up.

I can see both sides to this fiasco...as Melo's aged and battled injuries, he's not a top shelf star anymore, but wants to be treated as one. The flip side, I can understand if he's not happy with how Phil has put stuff in the media.

Either way, it's time for the divorce.

but so be it. Just get him out of here. The "importance" Melo places on winning sure as hell doesn't manifest itself in the effort department. Stay Me7o, kid.

Instagram fingers

In comment 13428826 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

has picks + (not saying all would even be available) but Brown, Zizic, Yabusele, Smart. Find a way Phil!

Ideally you want Boston to win a few rounds and then lose to the Cavs. Close enough that Boston decides to make a move to get better in the short term, but also they need to lose by enough to make them think they need to make a real move. Importantly, for Melo to end up there, Boston's problem needs to be that they couldnt get tough buckets when needed. Either Thomas is shut down, or no one else produces.

They're going to have to evaluate if giving Thomas, Bradley and smart a combined $100M a year is a good idea (it's not). Ainge likely realizes that already.

Ainge is probably having sleepless nights as is. What team is going to throw the kitchen sink to give Thomas a $200M deal going into his 30s? There's really not many positive possibilities in that regard unless Boston can defeat Cleveland.

In comment 13429133 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

Quote: Follow Ian Begley @IanBegley Kristaps Porzingis skipped exit meetings due to frustration over dysfunction, drama surrounding NYK, team sources told ESPN. Story coming.

Wow. Bad. But maybe great long term.

In comment 13428926 Canton said:

Quote:

KP "liked" Melo's post. In 2017, I, a grown man, am following such frivolities.

it shows he actually cares BUT skipping meetings is not the right way to go about it

KP and Lee for Lavine, Dunn and the wolves pick! Who says no?!

but if there was ever a time for an exception - it's this guy, this team and this time. What a disgraceful year on and off the court.

.

Idiots run this team. Meetings are only of any value if you trust the team and they know what they're doing. None of that fits the Knicks.

Nothing to see here. Dolan will fix it all by banning a season ticket holder for saying something mean to him. This mess is all a figment of all the fans imagination

In comment 13428955 bceagle05 said:

Quote:

but so be it. Just get him out of here. The "importance" Melo places on winning sure as hell doesn't manifest itself in the effort department. Stay Me7o, kid.

Melo is only a sympathetic figure for idiots. He hasn't played well enough or hard enough for me to feel any sympathy towards him (as it pertains to Phil).

To be perfectly honest, I feel somewhat similarly about KP. I don't give a shit if he skipped the exit meeting, but KP could've cured a lot of the "dysfunction" by playing better after his injury.

Hmm
Espn - ( New Window )

if he plans on following Melo and being a diva.

In comment 13429216 DennyInDenville said:

Quote:

Hmm Espn - ( New Window )

You're like a few hours late, NykAllDay. Please stop posting. You were awful the first time.

In comment 13429234 Shirk130 said:

Quote:

if he plans on following Melo and being a diva.

Wow. The future of the team and arguably the best player has one moment of frustration and suddenly he "needs to play better if he's gonna be a diva?" Cmon man.

it is going to be an eventful offseason..

If clippers lose first round expect the rumors to start rather quickly

for Bosh and Miami's pick who says no?

In comment 13429565 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

for Bosh and Miami's pick who says no?

cap relief and the 14th pick this year, not bad

Dee is advocating bringing back Rose. Wowzas.

In comment 13429572 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13429565 DanMetroMan said: Quote: for Bosh and Miami's pick who says no? cap relief and the 14th pick this year, not bad

I feel like in theory it makes sense for both sides.

I honestly don't care what we get back for Melo, as long as it's not a long-term contract. I just want him off the team, even if it means a buy-out (extreme worst case scenario). When the lottery pick shows up for freakin' Summer League, I don't want Melo around. I just want to move on. Everyone with a brain should want to move on.

Derrick Rose? No. Just no.

In comment 13429577 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Dee is advocating bringing back Rose. Wowzas.

if he was strictly used as a guy to get in the paint and score i dont think it is a bad thing...

BUT you need to have a good defnder and distributor at the point or 2 and the problem is rose will never take a backseat...

In comment 13429592 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

In comment 13429577 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Dee is advocating bringing back Rose. Wowzas. if he was strictly used as a guy to get in the paint and score i dont think it is a bad thing... BUT you need to have a good defnder and distributor at the point or 2 and the problem is rose will never take a backseat...

1. Didn't put in ANY defensive effort
2. Didn't display any chemistry with KP
3. 4th knee surgery
4. Went AWOL
5. They are rebuilding, he's going to want to get his numbers and rebuild his FA value
6. Openly took shots at Hornacek
7. Supposedly didn't get along with Hornacek behind the scenes
8. NEVER healthy


Awful idea I'm sorry.

Rose has been increasingly frustrated with how this Knicks season has unfolded, culminating with him privately fuming over his diminished late-game role in Friday night�s victory in Milwaukee, sources said. Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek played undrafted rookie Ron Baker over Rose in the fourth quarter.

Rose has been privately critical of Hornacek, but no one in the locker room � or management � has expressed any issues with how Hornacek has coached Rose, league sources said.

-something along the lines of �how about you just show up for work and do your own job.�

Instead, Jeff Hornacek seemed to take Rose�s suggestion that he push the team harder on defense in stride, calling it �typical talk.�


It would be truly awful. Absolutely not. No fucking way. As I said previously if he's back I won't be posting on BBI regarding the Knicks next season.

i just said if the role was right it wouldnt be horrible but his perfect role he will never accept

his perfect role is 6th man off the bench instant offense

In comment 13429590 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

I honestly don't care what we get back for Melo, as long as it's not a long-term contract. I just want him off the team, even if it means a buy-out (extreme worst case scenario). When the lottery pick shows up for freakin' Summer League, I don't want Melo around. I just want to move on. Everyone with a brain should want to move on. Derrick Rose? No. Just no.

Why do you care about a long term contract if we are rebuilding? Free agents arent coming here until we're good. We should use our cap space to get other assets (ie contract dumps). For example, if LA wants to compete, give them Melo AND take back Deng -- they'll pay more in futures.

The Knicks are ridiculous but @NYPost_Berman's article noting Jackson hired Hornacek over Rambis due to age is absurd 54 vs. 59 #Knicks

Look in the mirror, Rose.

for Carroll, JV, and Joseph?

Toronto does it to lower their tax bill (cut $7M) and get overall better players.

NY takes on a bad contract, gets a solid PG on the cheap and JV who is a pretty damn good center. Can flip JV later on too if you think Willy will be better, he's on a fair contract.

In comment 13429858 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

for Carroll, JV, and Joseph? Toronto does it to lower their tax bill (cut $7M) and get overall better players. NY takes on a bad contract, gets a solid PG on the cheap and JV who is a pretty damn good center. Can flip JV later on too if you think Willy will be better, he's on a fair contract.

Not sure Toronto touches that, but I'd do it in a second.

In comment 13429863 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 13429858 giantsfan44ab said: Quote: for Carroll, JV, and Joseph? Toronto does it to lower their tax bill (cut $7M) and get overall better players. NY takes on a bad contract, gets a solid PG on the cheap and JV who is a pretty damn good center. Can flip JV later on too if you think Willy will be better, he's on a fair contract. Not sure Toronto touches that, but I'd do it in a second.

It would make sense for Toronto IMO. They were looking for JV trades at the deadline to get under the tax. Delon Wright played well for them and can take up Joseph's minutes easy. JV doesn't get full minutes in the playoffs, KOQ and Poetl can replace his production. Melo is a massive upgrade over Carroll.

just ethered the Knicks again.
Link - ( New Window )

Good for Porzingis - he's the only one who seems to care about this franchise.

of mine. But this is ridiculous. How can you undermine your coach continually and expect the team to be disciplined and play as a unit? How can a team have three coaches...when you do you have none.

season's interim abomination is completely ridiculous. Literally all of the players hated him.

That being said, Kristaps Porzingis is not fucking LeBron James. He hasn't accomplished a thing in this league. The Knicks are "on the clock" with him? Can he have a season with 4 good months before I read horseshit like this?

And has said after almost all of their wins that they "played right." He probably probably gets pretty frustrated all those times they don't.

he has said numerous times he wants to run it more...

i think he is frustrated with the constant change and the constant bickering and the constant losing

In comment 13429973 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

just ethered the Knicks again. Link - ( New Window )

woj also absolutely hates the knicks, so he must love this

If this is real? It's an Instagram repost of an Al Iannazzone tweet stating Phil thinks KP is not ready to be the man, and he's "not untouchable."

I swear to god if they trade KP I'm done with the Knicks til Phil and Dolan are gone.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 13430018 colin said:

Quote:

If this is real? It's an Instagram repost of an Al Iannazzone tweet stating Phil thinks KP is not ready to be the man, and he's "not untouchable." I swear to god if they trade KP I'm done with the Knicks til Phil and Dolan are gone. Link - ( New Window )

That is a real tweet and I am in 150% agreement with you.

is go to his exit meeting and let out hia frustrations, him skipling meetings is the last thing he should be doing..

The knicks are about to put their franchise on his back amd he cant attend a simple exot meeting? seems pretty selfish to me, even Melo who has all the reason in the world to say fuck this went to the meeting...

whoevwr told him it was a good idea kp needs to tell him to go away..

and also fuck the media right now, spinning everytbing to be bad, phil never said he would trade kp and all he said was he still has a lot to grow into to become the lead dog, how is that bad?

also fuck woj, the toolbag rips the knicks any chance he gets because they do not feed him stories, whem.phil was hired he ripped the knicks, but 2 days earlier when he said he was going to the lakers he praised it and said it would be a great move..

he writes with agendas llain and simple

In comment 13430056 nygiants16 said:

Quote:

is go to his exit meeting and let out hia frustrations, him skipling meetings is the last thing he should be doing.. The knicks are about to put their franchise on his back amd he cant attend a simple exot meeting? seems pretty selfish to me, even Melo who has all the reason in the world to say fuck this went to the meeting... whoevwr told him it was a good idea kp needs to tell him to go away.. and also fuck the media right now, spinning everytbing to be bad, phil never said he would trade kp and all he said was he still has a lot to grow into to become the lead dog, how is that bad? also fuck woj, the toolbag rips the knicks any chance he gets because they do not feed him stories, whem.phil was hired he ripped the knicks, but 2 days earlier when he said he was going to the lakers he praised it and said it would be a great move.. he writes with agendas llain and simple

Woj is easily one of the most respected NBA writers. He's saying the same thing every other writer and a huge chunk of Knicks fans are saying.

Phil is running a clown show. It's getting worse instead of better. Knicks front office easily looks like the worst in the NBA right now. How anyone can go into this offseason with any hope for Phil to do the right thing is beyond me. He's been GM for 3 offseason and has one good draft to show for it. Everything else he's done has been basically garbage.

he is respected for breaking stories but when he writes articlez he writes with bias and favors whoever leaks him stories..

This is the same guy who said the knicks would sign no one because donnie walsh was in a wheelchair and basically was a mouthpiece for the nets..

even wrote an article about how he gets stories and what he does for teams to get in their good graces and what he does to teams who do not feed him stories..

it is fact that he has zero sources within the knicks

In comment 13430018 colin said:

Quote:

If this is real? It's an Instagram repost of an Al Iannazzone tweet stating Phil thinks KP is not ready to be the man, and he's "not untouchable." I swear to god if they trade KP I'm done with the Knicks til Phil and Dolan are gone. Link - ( New Window )

Source ofthis is the press conference. Phil wouldnt call anyone untouchable. It was garbled but I think his point on being the man was more about being the #1 scoring option. But in any event, I agree KP isnt ready. But all the great players other than Kawhi basically get thrown to the Wolves in this regard and become the man by learning on the job. You fail at being the man before you succeed.

It is truly shocking to me any Knick fan could defend Phil Jackson at this point. Based off that bizarre presser, he looks clueless, out of touch and delusional. The more you hear him speak about roster composition, the more you realize he is clueless to being a good GM in the NBA. He will completely botch this offseason, no doubt about it. KP sent a message loud and clear.

And you can say Woj has a bias but what he is though is very well informed. Just look at the guests on his podcasts. He knows the NBA inside and out, and that article was spot on about everything. I don't think there is worse runs sports franchise than the Knicks currently.

And for anyone that points to the KP draft pick, maybe that's just the one thing he got lucky at and all his other moves are a reflection of his executive skills.

In comment 13428767 Steve in Greenwich said:

Quote:

medias damn obsession with the triangle is tiring. I don't give a shit about the triangle, stop asking about the triangle. This Knicks team lacks talent to run any system. They're bad. Lets talk and worry about what system they are running when it actually makes a difference.

Thinking back to Steve's post, I think the triangle issue is a big deal. The triangle offense is literally a way of life to Phil -- he conflates it with how you should treat other people. It's part of his zen stuff. Based on Woj's reporting, it's pretty clear that Phil's imposition of the triangle is hurting the team. The coach doesnt know it and doesnt want it. The players resent the summer school, and someone at least resents the "laborious emails". Lee said playing the triangle in practice hurt their defensive training vis a vis the offenses everyone else runs.

Re KP: I dont think Phil has any issue with KP. KP is surely frustrated. Not clear if it is triangle related. It probably is, but not based on a personal opinion about the merits of the scheme. I dont think KP will walk after his first deal, since no one does. But in a post-Melo world he's probably the one guy capable of getting to Dolan about Phil -- if he wants to.

saying he wanted the triangle run more and wanted to run it from the start of the season

but i am willing to give him an off season where he doesnt have to build for now around melo..

i am also willinh to give hornacek a chance with a team full of young players..

the triangle is only a big deal because the media makes it out to be, remember this is the same media that said phil was forcing the triangle early in the season, when in actuality they barely ran it

boat without a paddle my friend.

Time to call a spade a spade. Other than drafting KP, almost every move Phil has made has been an epic blunder.

In comment 13430123 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

boat without a paddle my friend. Time to call a spade a spade. Other than drafting KP, almost every move Phil has made has been an epic blunder.

oh i know he has been terrible...

and if he goes for another quick fix like sign holiday to 100 million i wont defend him again

In comment 13430123 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

boat without a paddle my friend. Time to call a spade a spade. Other than drafting KP, almost every move Phil has made has been an epic blunder.

Basketball writers hate the organization (pre-Phil) and hate Phil (pre-Knicks), so everything is made to be 10 times worse than it really is. I saw Windhorst 2 days ago say the Knicks were a 50 win team before Phil got here. We all know that's not true. It was 2 years and the following season was a clusterfuck of quitters and check stealers... that's why Phil was hired. Woj HATES the Knicks and the fact that anyone gives a shit what he thinks about the team after his Donnie Walsh comments is crazy. And I think that leads to the over the top comments like yours. Almost every move he's made isn't an epic blunder. They just don't have enough good players and that's less about Phil than the roster and draft pick trades made before he was here. The T'Wolves have 2 number one overall picks and Thibs, who's supposedly a great coach. They won the same amount of games as the Knicks and they weren't even tanking. Dallas has a championship coach and they won 2 more games than the Knicks. Phil certainly isn't perfect, but the media "Everything is a disaster!@$@@!!!" storyline is too much. If given the choice between the bigger problem with the Knicks right now... Phil or the fact they've had only 2 draft choices in the past 3 years, I'm choosing the latter. People are killing Phil over his Melo comments and what was wrong with them? It hasn't worked here and it is best for all parties involved that Melo goes elsewhere. These media guys making Melo a victim... should they ask MDA about Melo after he gets his Coach of the Year award? Chances are the comments won't be pretty.

Phil's leash isn't and shouldn't be particularly long, but I'm perfectly willing to see how he builds the team post-Melo and with a full collection of draft picks. Making dumb signings like Noah has hurt his credibility, so he needs to get things rolling in the right direction as soon as Melo is out the door.

with Phil. You can justify re-signing Melo. You can justify the trades for Grant and Rose. And signing Lee and Noah to try to make the playoffs in a weak east.

But the Fisher drama, undermining Hornacek, insisting on Rambis as coach. Calling out his players in the press. That stuff is bush league. It's embarrassing. If it was just the player moves, I don't think people would be all that upset with him.

this season will have been a success. If we make a Melo trade that isn't a total fleecing, this offseason will likely be a success. The rest is just noise, in my opinion.

makeup isn't dire.

They have two real building blocks in Willy and KP.

They will add a 3rd in the draft. They should add a 4th with a Melo trade.

All of a sudden if they play it well they should have a core 4 guys to build around with no bad contracts on the books other than Noahs.

When your team sucks, it's better to quietly suck.

In comment 13430182 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

makeup isn't dire. They have two real building blocks in Willy and KP. They will add a 3rd in the draft. They should add a 4th with a Melo trade. All of a sudden if they play it well they should have a core 4 guys to build around with no bad contracts on the books other than Noahs.

and then if all goes 1 more year of being in the lottery, maybe get lucky and get doncic or porter jr

that KP and WH make jumps next season, it's hard to envision next year's winning % being drastically different than this year. Rose/Melo weren't the best but they won us a handful games.

I also expect teams like Phoenix, MIN, and Philly to make drastic improvements. Hopefully the Lakers do something to get better. I think a top 5 pick in 2018 is a reasonable expectation.

In comment 13430182 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

makeup isn't dire. They have two real building blocks in Willy and KP. They will add a 3rd in the draft. They should add a 4th with a Melo trade. All of a sudden if they play it well they should have a core 4 guys to build around with no bad contracts on the books other than Noahs.

Willy is not a real building block, not as of yet. I'm a huge Wily fan but to call him a building block is crazy, especially since he still might be blocking KP's true position. He might be best as the first big man off the bench ala Kanter. He can be a piece of a winning team, but a big man with the type of defense he plays has a long way to go before he's a building block.

if the Knicks are looking at deals like Austin Rivers for Melo, don't expect a building block for Melo either.

Knicks REALLY need the Cavs and Celtics to woefully underperform this playoffs.

if all they wanted was Rivers. If they turn around and do the same deal this summer that'll be a massive failure.

In comment 13430123 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

boat without a paddle my friend. Time to call a spade a spade. Other than drafting KP, almost every move Phil has made has been an epic blunder.

This Jackson other than KP and Willy is a total disaster. Just as bad as Isaiah. Sorry but havin Kobe amd Shaw ans Jordan and Pippen has jist addled the minds of too many. He's part of those successes but his whole fixation w the triangle is a joke. It would be like Jerry Reese forcing McAdoo to run the triple option.

Forget fellow Knick fans. We are still fucked for years to come

Picks.

I can't foresee the Knicks being able to keep KP past his rookie contract.

Stay. Changes are coming.

In comment 13430292 colin said:

Quote:

I can't foresee the Knicks being able to keep KP past his rookie contract.

And where is reasonable historical evidence for that? The only 1st rounders that don't stay with a team past their rookie deal are teams that don't want to pay them (e.g. Monroe) or that are traded.

KP will stay in NY if the only reason is receiving the max extension when it becomes available or extending him 5 years $200M when hes a RFA. There's really no precedent for what you are suggesting.

Maybe I'm just being doom and gloom, but he's already had 3 coaches, and the Knicks are, objectively, one of the poorest run franchises in sports right now, and I don't see that improving. Watching the way Melo has been treated, the disarray the team is in with no real light at the end of the tunnel, and the fact that KP has, in many different ways, shown his that he has a desire to achieve greatness, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities for him to take a pay cut to be on a team with a future.

A lot can change over the next few years. And truthfully, I didn't know that it would be "unprecedented" for him to not resign, but with Phil being extended, and Dolan showing no signs of changing or moving on, I think it's easy to see this team isn't destine for greatness any time soon.

That being said, I'm wrong all the time, and also kind of a moron, so who knows? Just the Knicks are truly becoming a sink hole of a team, and IMHO, anyone with sense and talent wouldn't subject themselves to this for longer than required.

In comment 13430321 colin said:

Quote:

Maybe I'm just being doom and gloom, but he's already had 3 coaches, and the Knicks are, objectively, one of the poorest run franchises in sports right now, and I don't see that improving. Watching the way Melo has been treated, the disarray the team is in with no real light at the end of the tunnel, and the fact that KP has, in many different ways, shown his that he has a desire to achieve greatness, I don't think it's out of the realm of possibilities for him to take a pay cut to be on a team with a future. A lot can change over the next few years. And truthfully, I didn't know that it would be "unprecedented" for him to not resign, but with Phil being extended, and Dolan showing no signs of changing or moving on, I think it's easy to see this team isn't destine for greatness any time soon. That being said, I'm wrong all the time, and also kind of a moron, so who knows? Just the Knicks are truly becoming a sink hole of a team, and IMHO, anyone with sense and talent wouldn't subject themselves to this for longer than required.

Yeah all that depressing stuff is frustrating KP, but as to forcing him to demand a trade/ walk in RFA, I can't remember a time that's ever happened.

He's not the only player on a rookie deal to play for a miserable franchise. Anthony Davis extended in NO (albeit after they made the playoffs, but the coach was fired). Demarcus Cousins wanted to be traded his rookie year yet extended when FA came around and would've extended had he not been traded.

Post year-9 FA is when there is volatility to who stays/leaves. So the Knicks have roughly 7 years to convince KP that NY is the place to be. This is (hopefully) rock bottom.

I hope you're right, and you probably are, you seem more knowledgeable on the topic than myself. I think the past 15 or so years of being a Knicks fan has just conditioned me to expect the worst, haha.

guaranteed whem he is the number 1 optikn surrounded by young guys who play hard and play defense he will be much happier..

plus one of his best friends is on the team and they re the future front court

In comment 13430323 giantsfan44ab said:

Quote:

Post year-9 FA is when there is volatility to who stays/leaves. So the Knicks have roughly 7 years to convince KP that NY is the place to be. This is (hopefully) rock bottom.

And the new CBA was designed to greatly improve the chances of teams resigning their picks to 3rd contracts.

sounding like I don't like Willy (because I really do), would those who call him a building block say Kanter is one? Because Kanter is essentially a maxed out version of what we can realistically dream Willy CAN be.

In comment 13430381 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

sounding like I don't like Willy (because I really do), would those who call him a building block say Kanter is one? Because Kanter is essentially a maxed out version of what we can realistically dream Willy CAN be.

I reject the premise. Willy is already a better rebounder, especially defensively. And I see no reason to believe that, because Kanter cant play a lick of defense, that Willy is somehow capped at being a bottom 3 defensive center. If Kanter was even just below average defensively, he'd be an all star or near all star. On the other hand, I wouldnt project Willy to ever be as good as Kanter is offensively.

Notably, people within the game have thrown around Gasol and not Kanter with their WH comps. Lets see where this goes.

In comment 13430385 Deej said:

Quote:

In comment 13430381 DanMetroMan said: Quote: sounding like I don't like Willy (because I really do), would those who call him a building block say Kanter is one? Because Kanter is essentially a maxed out version of what we can realistically dream Willy CAN be. I reject the premise. Willy is already a better rebounder, especially defensively. And I see no reason to believe that, because Kanter cant play a lick of defense, that Willy is somehow capped at being a bottom 3 defensive center. If Kanter was even just below average defensively, he'd be an all star or near all star. On the other hand, I wouldnt project Willy to ever be as good as Kanter is offensively. Notably, people within the game have thrown around Gasol and not Kanter with their WH comps. Lets see where this goes.

I just think people are underrating how far WIlly has to come defensively to be a "good" defensive player. If I had to use an adjective I'd use something closer to "horrible" defensively than "below average". I didn't see any "signs" he's ever going to be even average defensively. I keep seeing people mention Gasol but Gasol was a guy who 1. Unusual defensive development 2. MASSIVE change in his body.

once we add PJ Tucker the defense will be improved. Tuck Tuck Tuck

With the team, particularly president Phil Jackson, insisting to stick with the Triangle offense moving forward, New York's saviour might actually come from the Philippines.

From the barangay actually.

American sportswriter Roland Lazenby, author of the best-selling books Michael Jordan: The Life and Showboat: The Life of Kobe Bryant, said on his Twitter account a couple of days ago that the Knicks would be smart to bring Tim Cone to New York.

He added that the winnigest coach in PBA history is the ultimate triangle coach on planet Earth right now.
Link - ( New Window )

further asserts that Phil strongly misses Tex Winter. He claims Winter was one of the few people who could critique Phil and Phil would listen.

be all over James Young. 34% from 3, 0.76 WS, good size (6'7), 22 all of next season. I'd load up on draft failure types.

willy is a much better passer, kanter is allergic to passing the ball..

willy also at least tries defensively, kanter just cares about scoring..

sure where all the Slick Willy hate is coming from.

Last six players to average 16 and 13 per 36 as rookies:



Yes, he has to work on his defense. But holy shit, the kid just had a great rookie year out of nowhere. He scores, rebounds, passes, works hard. He's absolutely a building block.

Now comparing Willy to a guy who just had a 23.74 PER age 24 season and was given a 70 million dollar extension at 23 is "hate"? lol wow.

point was his defense was really, really bad to the point I'm not sure why we should expect him to ever be an average defensive big. Based on what?

In comment 13430423 DanMetroMan said:

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Now comparing Willy to a guy who just had a 23.74 PER age 24 season and was given a 70 million dollar extension at 23 is "hate"? lol wow.

Relax buddy. Read above your comment.

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Willy is not a real building block, not as of yet. I'm a huge Wily fan but to call him a building block is crazy

In comment 13430427 Jon in NYC said:

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In comment 13430423 DanMetroMan said: Quote: Now comparing Willy to a guy who just had a 23.74 PER age 24 season and was given a 70 million dollar extension at 23 is "hate"? lol wow. Relax buddy. Read above your comment. Quote: Willy is not a real building block, not as of yet. I'm a huge Wily fan but to call him a building block is crazy

Fair enough. I just meant for me personally I don't see how we can say both Kanter isn't one but Willy is. I have doubts Willy is ever even average defensively. I just don't see any reason to believe that's the case other than "Marc Gasol!!!". I mean even KP and Willy himself have said it needs work. Maybe the "work" helps but I'm not blindly projecting significantly better defense.

Which is why I was all over Robert Williams before he decided not to declare. Big Willy fan over here but I don't classify him the same as KP were I'd avoid looking at 2-way players at his position completely come draft time.

Green drooled over Willy's offense yet said the following

With Willy, Knicks fans can expect an up-and-down year. He is a special offensive talent. He has nice post moves, a soft touch, a good mid-range J, and vision/passing abilities that are very advanced for his age. Check out this perfect lefty pass from underneath the rim out to an open 3-point shooter (and sorry for the grainy videos -- I'm running a low-budget, low-tech operation here).


"Willy's body is more similar to Marc than Pau. He does not have what you'd consider "NBA athleticism." He runs the floor hard, but he can't jump, he struggles to slide his feet defensively (despite great footwork on the offensive end) and he is a horrible pick-and-roll defender. He was badly exposed in pick-and-rolls at the Euroleague level, and it will be his biggest problem in the NBA."

It's important for Knicks fans to keep their expectations for Willy in check. He's not Marc Gasol. He's probably never going to be a good defender, and he may never be a starting-caliber center.

In comment 13430431 giantsfan44ab said:

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Which is why I was all over Robert Williams before he decided not to declare. Big Willy fan over here but I don't classify him the same as KP were I'd avoid looking at 2-way players at his position completely come draft time.

I love what we saw from Willy this year. I just don't understand why we are ignoring the defense and the odds he becomes a good defender. If he improves to "below average" we still likely will be considering a defensive 4/5 to pair with him. That was my only point. Expecting Marc Gasol seems kind of silly. How many Marc Gasol's have their been?

with the notion that Enes isn't a "building block" either. 14/7 off the bench at 24 years old? He's a really talented player.

willy is going to learn how to use his bldy and pisitioning because he is not the most athletic center and not the quickest..

he can really learn alot from marc gasol playing for spain

In comment 13430405 DanMetroMan said:

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be all over James Young. 34% from 3, 0.76 WS, good size (6'7), 22 all of next season. I'd load up on draft failure types.

Not going to quibble over signing young guys to cheap deals (because that is what this team SHOULD be doing), I just have had issues with Young since he was drafted. Not a very good athlete, horrible defender.

Throwing the 34% from 3 ignores the fact he's only played in 29 games this season and hit 12 3s. He's 28% from 3 for his career. If he's not going to morph into a 40% 3 point shooter he's not an NBA player at all. Awful defender, rebounder and passer. Only reason he was a lottery pick was because he was a proclaimed bucket getter at U.K. and he's averaging 9.7 points per 36 on 37% from the field for his career.

Again, if he's a minimum type signing I'm not going to soil my pants over it.

In comment 13430439 giantsfan44ab said:

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In comment 13430405 DanMetroMan said: Quote: be all over James Young. 34% from 3, 0.76 WS, good size (6'7), 22 all of next season. I'd load up on draft failure types. Not going to quibble over signing young guys to cheap deals (because that is what this team SHOULD be doing), I just have had issues with Young since he was drafted. Not a very good athlete, horrible defender. Throwing the 34% from 3 ignores the fact he's only played in 29 games this season and hit 12 3s. He's 28% from 3 for his career. If he's not going to morph into a 40% 3 point shooter he's not an NBA player at all. Awful defender, rebounder and passer. Only reason he was a lottery pick was because he was a proclaimed bucket getter at U.K. and he's averaging 9.7 points per 36 on 37% from the field for his career. Again, if he's a minimum type signing I'm not going to soil my pants over it.

I'm not specifically a James Young fan. I just think guys like Young, Ennis, Clark etc should be our targets (again assuming their prices make sense). I just think failed 1sts for other teams that are still reasonably young are the way to go on a rebuilding team.

Is that if you have vice grips for defensive players in the backcourt it make your job helluva lot easier. I can picture a scenario where KP turns into the rangy rim protector Knicks fans' have wet dreams about combined with getting stoppers at the other 3 positions where Willy's not relied to stop every defensive breakdown.

37% from 3, only 26 years old. Some of these guys might value playing time over anything else. Wouldn't mind the Warriors needing a roster spot and dealing McCaw for our 2nd.

project. Never going to be a starter in the NBA but in a Jamal Crawford type role? Granted it hasn't worked out all that well in washington. But I liked how his effiency improved every year in Utah. In the same vein there's Shelvin Mack.

are the real building blocks. Ideally I think you want Willy to be your fourth or fifth best player (on a really good team).

In comment 13430398 DanMetroMan said:

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I just think people are underrating how far WIlly has to come defensively to be a "good" defensive player. If I had to use an adjective I'd use something closer to "horrible" defensively than "below average". I didn't see any "signs" he's ever going to be even average defensively. I keep seeing people mention Gasol but Gasol was a guy who 1. Unusual defensive development 2. MASSIVE change in his body.

BUT... Kanter is so bad defensively that he's a unique case. Thus Willy does not need to be even average defensively to be a very different proposition than Kanter. Agree Gasol is not remotely likely for a defensive projection (though I think WH is already a better rebounder than Gasol ever was, and is tracking to be as good or better offensively).

A few weeks ago, but what would it take to get Noah Vonleh? Taking on a bad contract? I think he's an ideal starting center next to KP. He can switch PnRs on defense and provides some hope of range (only 7 3s made this year but was one of his most promising attributes at Indiana). Not a big drop off rebounding wise from willy (11 per 36). Ideal scenario is starting a defensive minded center with KP and bringing Willy for 25-30 minutes off the bench. Give vonleh about 20-25 minutes.

And he's got to be top 3 or 4 for the Knicks.

makes too much sense not to happen. Learn to love him.

And I've been big on Vonleh for a while. Even at Indiana. Surprised it's taken him this long to get it going in the pros.

To the point he just waived his NTC entirely you can do:

Melo, KOQ, Kuz for

Crabbe, vonleh, harkless and ezeli

To get a core where everyone is 24 and younger:

Fox
Crabbe
Harkless
KP
Vonleh/Willy

If not Melo, KOQ + Lee for Crabbe and Vonleh could do it (Portland does it to shed salary).

In comment 13430453 bceagle05 said:

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Quote: Ian Begley‏ @IanBegley Some people in the Knicks organization are fans of draft prospect Frank Ntilikina

he is apparently working out in new york for the summer

In comment 13430400 DanMetroMan said:

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With the team, particularly president Phil Jackson, insisting to stick with the Triangle offense moving forward, New York's saviour might actually come from the Philippines. From the barangay actually. American sportswriter Roland Lazenby, author of the best-selling books Michael Jordan: The Life and Showboat: The Life of Kobe Bryant, said on his Twitter account a couple of days ago that the Knicks would be smart to bring Tim Cone to New York. He added that the winnigest coach in PBA history is the ultimate triangle coach on planet Earth right now. Link - ( New Window )

The Spurs get Ettore Messina as an assistant and the Knicks get a triangle expert from the Philippines. The triangle focus is such garbage. I can't believe people still fall for this triangle bullshit.

In comment 13430560 TyreeHelmet said:

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In comment 13430400 DanMetroMan said: Quote: With the team, particularly president Phil Jackson, insisting to stick with the Triangle offense moving forward, New York's saviour might actually come from the Philippines. From the barangay actually. American sportswriter Roland Lazenby, author of the best-selling books Michael Jordan: The Life and Showboat: The Life of Kobe Bryant, said on his Twitter account a couple of days ago that the Knicks would be smart to bring Tim Cone to New York. He added that the winnigest coach in PBA history is the ultimate triangle coach on planet Earth right now. Link - ( New Window ) The Spurs get Ettore Messina as an assistant and the Knicks get a triangle expert from the Philippines. The triangle focus is such garbage. I can't believe people still fall for this triangle bullshit.

I don't think anyone's falling for it. It's the only thing people talk about, and not in a good way.