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Was Olivier Vernon injured last season?

mrvax : 4/15/2017 5:17 pm
I remember how well OV played in the practice games and then early in the season he did not play at star level.

I'd heard he had a broken hand and was playing through it. Anyone hear of an OV injury?
Yes, he injured his wrist  
Big Blue '56 : 4/15/2017 5:21 pm : link
during pre-season, I believe and took awhile to heal..It's possible he hurt it very early in the regular season
Yes  
mattlawson : 4/15/2017 6:04 pm : link
Thanks for reminding us
Yes  
joeinpa : 4/15/2017 6:07 pm : link
It was pretty well known about his hand
I think he hurt it in the Dallas game  
Matt in SGS : 4/15/2017 6:07 pm : link
if you go back and watch that game, he destroyed Smith and Collins. After that, he kind of disappeared for a few weeks as he was playing with one arm. He started to turn it around again near the first Eagles/ Bengals game.
RE: Yes  
mrvax : 4/15/2017 6:11 pm : link
In comment 13429795 mattlawson said:
Quote:
Thanks for reminding us



Matt, it's not so bad. He'll probably be even better this year. Imaging OV & JPP on the ends. Just need a DT that can collapse the pocket...
Multiple fractures in his hand, yeah  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/15/2017 6:16 pm : link
.
slowed down by a heavy wallet...  
SHO'NUFF : 4/15/2017 6:48 pm : link
he really should leave it in the locker room during games.
Broken hand. And he played thru it and after about week 6  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2017 8:05 pm : link
was a friggin animal.

Put me in the camp of OV is worth every penny.
Let's not get too enthusiastic about Vernon  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 4/15/2017 9:29 pm : link
until we see him next season.

In the last five games of the season, the ones that JPP missed, Vernon had one half of a sack.
RE: Let's not get too enthusiastic about Vernon  
Big Rick in FL : 4/15/2017 11:41 pm : link
In comment 13429921 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
until we see him next season.

In the last five games of the season, the ones that JPP missed, Vernon had one half of a sack.


Yup! Let's not get too enthusiastic about a guy who was a 2nd team All-Pro in his first year in a new defense who played with a shattered hand for over 1/3 of the season. Easily could have made 1st team as he was a far superior player to Beasley in every area except sacks. But let's not be enthusiastic about that guy!!!
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/16/2017 12:00 am : link
Vernon is an interesting guy. If you look at his stature, you would think he would be a terrible run defender. But he's a fine two-way player who can be very disruptive against the run.
RE: Let's not get too enthusiastic about Vernon  
Mike from SI : 4/16/2017 12:17 am : link
In comment 13429921 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
until we see him next season.

In the last five games of the season, the ones that JPP missed, Vernon had one half of a sack.


Sacks are the be-all and end-all. Don't worry about pressures at all, or run defense.
RE: Let's not get too enthusiastic about Vernon  
Dave in Hoboken : 4/16/2017 12:28 am : link
In comment 13429921 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
until we see him next season.

In the last five games of the season, the ones that JPP missed, Vernon had one half of a sack.


Didn't help that when JPP went down, the offensive lines were able to put more focus/attention on Vernon. Vernon played very well in the 2nd half of the season, when his injury healed. And remember, the defense arguably played even better in JPP's absence; at the very least just as well. That playoff game was a 1 point game with just a few minutes left in the 3rd quarter..
"leave his wallet in the lockerroom"  
grizz299 : 4/16/2017 4:57 am : link

I am always struck by the poor desperate people here whose only way to feel better about their miserable selves is to attack and denigrate.
The man probably led the league in minutes played and he played through injuries.
But of course, someone poor soul is going to going to attack and never understand that he's making a statement about his life and not anybody elses.
Went to the London game.  
hammock man : 4/16/2017 6:44 am : link
He was in obvious pain after many of the plays. He's a very tough man
RE: Let's not get too enthusiastic about Vernon  
est1986 : 4/16/2017 7:59 am : link
In comment 13429921 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
until we see him next season.

In the last five games of the season, the ones that JPP missed, Vernon had one half of a sack.


He made 2nd team all-pro in year one with us.. And he did that with a bum hand/wrist all year long. Can't wait for this season to start.
RE: Let's not get too enthusiastic about Vernon  
Matt in SGS : 4/16/2017 8:38 am : link
In comment 13429921 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
until we see him next season.

In the last five games of the season, the ones that JPP missed, Vernon had one half of a sack.


I don't think the NFL will ever reach the statistical levels of baseball and sabermetrics to give insight to player production, though PFF will try. This might come off strange, but the "sack" stat in someways is the same as a win in baseball for pitchers. You can have a pitcher go out, give up 5 runs in 5 innings, but get a win because his team scored 6 runs to win. Meanwhile, a guy could give up one run in 9 innings, but get a loss because his team got shutout.

I've seen guys get a sack when another player makes a play and runs the QB into someone. I've seen guys get sacks because the QB will scramble out of bounds a half yard behind the line of scrimmage and they credit it to the nearest guy. Now, we all like to see sacks, but look at QB pressures, getting QBs to throw before they are ready, forcing them to move off the spot and ruining the timing of the play. Watch handling run defense, holding up their blockers to make the play themselves or allow the linebackers (or in this case Landon Collins many times) to flow to ball carrier for short gains.

Vernon did not get a sack vs the Cowboys in that last game, but he pushed Smith around and had Dak scrambling. He was huge in containing Zeke in the 2nd half.

And with JPP out, teams focused on Vernon (as they should) and Okwara ended up playing well. I thought Vernon was a great signing and didn't play like a guy happy to be paid and checked out.
Robert ayers had more sacks in 2014 for nyg  
djm : 4/16/2017 10:21 am : link
Than Vernon had last year.

Should i repeat that?
2015  
djm : 4/16/2017 10:22 am : link
Not 2014
RE: Robert ayers had more sacks in 2014 for nyg  
speedywheels : 4/16/2017 10:24 am : link
In comment 13430110 djm said:
Quote:
Than Vernon had last year.

Should i repeat that?


Good point. Too bad there aren't other stats to show the effectiveness of a defensive player. Hmm...
...  
christian : 4/16/2017 10:35 am : link
Pressures and tackles for loss are monumentally more interesting stats. Vernon was among the lelders there.

Sacks are just so flawed. The quarterback has so much control to not get sacked, and the defender basically has to err on the side of not hitting the QB now.

Judging a defender on sacks is really silly.
Sacks don't mean all that much  
mrvax : 4/16/2017 10:43 am : link
to me. QB pressures is what it's all about. Harassing that bastid, not allowing the QB to feel comfortable back there. IIRC, they did this to Dak and he threw a couple of INTs.
The Dolphins really fucked up releasing him...  
Torrag : 4/16/2017 10:43 am : link
...and we're reaping the benefits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbmLL-3Kq-Y  
annexOPR : 4/16/2017 11:06 am : link
just watch this and stop complaining.

players capable of stopping the run like this and then rushing from the DT spot are rare, incredibly valuable, and we are lucky to have him.

RE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbmLL-3Kq-Y  
mrvax : 4/16/2017 11:11 am : link
In comment 13430151 annexOPR said:
Quote:
just watch this and stop complaining.

players capable of stopping the run like this and then rushing from the DT spot are rare, incredibly valuable, and we are lucky to have him.


Nice video. On it OV looks smart & patient when warranted.
his run defense  
annexOPR : 4/16/2017 11:12 am : link
even with 1 hand, was a huge addition.

I'd like to add a speed rusher to come in on 3rd downs myself, but we are truly lucky to have a pair of DE like Vernon/JPP - in my opinion the best duo in the NFL. it's not all about sacks.
*  
annexOPR : 4/16/2017 11:16 am : link
he also logged an absurd amount of snaps last year, a breather here and there should make his snaps even more impactful. hopefully my guy Okwara develops into a solid rotational DE to give these guys a breather. I assume they go DT early now with Hank in Indy, but we shall see.
One of our best players  
KWALL2 : 4/16/2017 12:09 pm : link
Surprising to me just how good he was va the run. Love his game. One off the best at his position. I thought we overpayed. Not any more. We have an impact DE in his prime.
Interesting thread. Criticism of Vernon tells me  
Jimmy Googs : 4/16/2017 12:28 pm : link
Everything I need to know about the quality of the poster
RE: RE: Robert ayers had more sacks in 2014 for nyg  
djm : 4/16/2017 3:01 pm : link
In comment 13430113 speedywheels said:
Quote:
In comment 13430110 djm said:


Quote:


Than Vernon had last year.

Should i repeat that?



Good point. Too bad there aren't other stats to show the effectiveness of a defensive player. Hmm...


I was defending Vernon's play just for the record.
Looks like I got on the wrong side of the BBI mob for saying  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 4/16/2017 10:37 pm : link
that Vernon was a worthless POS whom we should dump for a third rounder before the draft.

Oh, no. I didn't go that far. I said that before going over the top about Vernon, consider that he only had a half of a sack down the stretch for the team when JPP was out of the lineup.

I got no quarrel with any of you or with Vernon. I was crazy about getting JPP back so the two of them might be an unstoppable force. I'm glad he had the hand for an explanation of not having a dominant year.

But don't tell me that a lot of people here won't be upset if for $54 million guaranteed Vernon doesn't produce more than 8.5 sacks, 1 forced fumble, and 0 passes knocked away. Be honest.
...  
christian : 4/16/2017 10:40 pm : link
If Vernon gets 17 tackles for a loss and 37 hurries a year, and plays 16 games, his contract will be worth it.
You know I was using the same argument defending JPP  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 4/17/2017 12:18 am : link
from the charge that he only had 7.5 sacks last season and he wasn't entitled to a break the bank payday.

So I'm glad everyone agrees that sacks aren't that important if you're running free through the backfield chasing the quarterback on every other play. I know that the player first to flush the QB right into the path of a late-comer who gets the sack while the first player gets nothing.

Still, I stand on my comment that Vernon has to put up better numbers than 8.5 sacks, one forced fumble and no passes batted down, or he's going to get a lot of heat here. These numbers aren't meaningless.
RE:  
SHO'NUFF : 4/17/2017 5:11 am : link
In comment 13430020 grizz299 said:
Quote:

I am always struck by the poor desperate people here whose only way to feel better about their miserable selves is to attack and denigrate.
The man probably led the league in minutes played and he played through injuries.
But of course, someone poor soul is going to going to attack and never understand that he's making a statement about his life and not anybody elses.


relax, it was obviously a joke...or maybe not that obvious. I'm a big OV fan and he was worth every penny, for reasons as stated here by others.
Yes, let's not get enthusiastic about one of our top players  
Jimmy Googs : 4/17/2017 8:03 am : link
and one of the best in the entire NFC. Vernon is a jag at best.

Instead let's channel our excitement towards our well-informed fan base that review "Sack Leaders" from the ESPN site to determine their posts...
RE: You know I was using the same argument defending JPP  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/17/2017 12:57 pm : link
In comment 13430876 SB 42 and 46 and ? said:
Quote:
from the charge that he only had 7.5 sacks last season and he wasn't entitled to a break the bank payday.

So I'm glad everyone agrees that sacks aren't that important if you're running free through the backfield chasing the quarterback on every other play. I know that the player first to flush the QB right into the path of a late-comer who gets the sack while the first player gets nothing.

Still, I stand on my comment that Vernon has to put up better numbers than 8.5 sacks, one forced fumble and no passes batted down, or he's going to get a lot of heat here. These numbers aren't meaningless.


Obviously 8.5 sacks is not what they expected for the money.

What matters more than this is context: He played with an injured hand, played almost a full game worth of snaps than the next defensive end in the league, and QB pressures don't show up on a website stat sheet. So "8.5 sacks" isn't enough information to hot take off of.
Good read:  
annexOPR : 4/17/2017 2:54 pm : link
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-giants-pass-rush/
RE: ...  
djm : 4/17/2017 3:32 pm : link
In comment 13430795 christian said:
Quote:
If Vernon gets 17 tackles for a loss and 37 hurries a year, and plays 16 games, his contract will be worth it.


I was saying this over and over and over again last August. Far too many said Vernon had to "earn" his overpaid salary and play at a super super high Reggie White like level or the contract would be a bust. Total fucking garbage. All he has to do is play. Legit pro bowl level DEs are worth every penny they get. IT's akin to great starting pitching. In a 4-3 you have to have that guy or two or your D is toast.
People have been..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/17/2017 3:38 pm : link
way too hung up on the money since Day 1. We had the cap room, we used it. Not on washed up old guys, but on three really good young players.

And the results were there. I mean you have one poster above saying, "I told you Vernon sucked, and I was wrong, but I'm going to stick to the point like I'm right". We needed to upgrade the defense, and we did and the main takeaway from many was "We had $200M. Anyone can upgrade the D spending that", but that point has been proven false so many times to count in the NFL.

By several accounts, Vernon played with what was called a "shattered hand" for the first part of last year, and yet was productive and a key component to the D. Since his signing didn't preclude us from signing someone else, the team improved, and he played at a high level, I really have no fucking idea why people are critical. None.
I really hope one of young DEs  
mrvax : 4/17/2017 4:19 pm : link
steps up or we draft one to give JPP and OV some much needed time off. I think it would allow them to be even more effective.
RE: The Dolphins really fucked up releasing him...  
Big Rick in FL : 4/18/2017 12:34 am : link
In comment 13430126 Torrag said:
Quote:
...and we're reaping the benefits.


He wasn't nearly as good for the Dolphins as he was in 2016. My Brother is a huge Fins fan. He wanted to keep him, but at the price we paid he was ok with him leaving.

The real problem they had is trying to replace him with a washed up Mario Williams for 1 year 10 million, William Hayes for 1 year 5 million + draft picks. Also Andre Branch for 3 years 24 million.
RE: Interesting thread. Criticism of Vernon tells me  
SB 42 and 46 and ? : 4/18/2017 10:00 am : link
In comment 13430210 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
Everything I need to know about the quality of the poster


Very close to a personal attack. Watch it.
I am just really enthusiastic about Vernon  
Jimmy Googs : 4/19/2017 1:38 am : link
and you hurt my feelings...
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